European Retirees Creating A Boom Market For Thai Property

[Thaising]

HUA HIN, Thailand : Veteran Swedish hotelier Sven Wermelin has travelled across Europe and Asia for his career, but also in search of a place to spend his retirement.

What he found was a 276-square-meter (3,000-square-foot) house in Thailand's southern resort town of Hua Hin.

"I sold my house in Spain, which is very expensive, to buy a house here where I get everything at a reasonable price. I can play golf and my wife can enjoy the beach, while my 15-year-old son can get very good education," said the 65-year-old, referring to the international schools in town.

"Hua Hin is my first home now. It is a perfect destination for those who want to enjoy life after retirement."

Wermelin is among the increasing number of foreigners buying property in Thai resort towns for their retirement.

Many are taking advantage of a new "retirement visa", which Thailand began issuing in February to foreigners older than 50, even if they are still working in their home countries.

The move has spurred strong demand for property, said George Mastronikolis, managing director of Hua Hin property developer Regal Thailand.

"For the past few years, expats living in Asia were the main buyers. Now this is changing with more and more individuals, mostly retiring people with the majority of them northern Europeans, discovering the benefits of living in Thailand," he told AFP.

"They sold their properties in Spain and other European countries, which have become very expensive, to buy property in Thailand."

Foreigners cannot own land in Thailand, but they can own a condo or a house.

In the upmarket tourist town of Hua Hin, residential units run from two to 30 million baht (52,500 to 790,000 dollars), but most of the demand is for mid-range houses costing 5-10 million baht.

"Hua Hin has the bright future of a unique city... a perfect family and retirement destination," Mastronikolis said.

Patti Tomaitrichitr, property analyst at KGI Securities, said the demand among European expats and retirees is greatest in the resort areas of Phuket, Pattaya and Hua Hin.

"Compared to other Asian markets like Hong Kong, Thailand's property prices and costs of living are relatively competitive," she told AFP.

Pattaya, still best known for its raucous red-light district, has seen sales double since mid-2005, with prices jumping by 50 percent since the third quarter last year, she said.

Phuket tends to attract higher-income foreigners, with sales rebounding since late 2005, after a slump following the December 2004 tsunami.

"Retirees can afford to live a lifestyle in Thailand that would not be affordable in the West, with many employing staff for driving, cleaning and nursing," said Charlotte Filleul, the Phuket-based sales manager of CB Richard Ellis (Thailand).

Phuket's international airport gives easy access to other cities in the region and to Bangkok.

Recreation activities such as yachting and golfing are among the most affordable in the region, making the island an attractive destination for retirees, she said.

"Phuket also has world-class, international medical facilities at very affordable prices, which are cheaper and more efficient than the services many Europeans and Americans would receive in their own countries," Filleul said.

Property prices in Phuket tend to be higher than the rest of Thailand. Condos built to western specification cost from 65,000 baht to more than 100,000 baht per square meter.

"Property prices have risen around 20 percent per year for the last five years and expected to continue to rise further," she said.

In Pattaya, villa projects with sea views are priced at millions of dollars.

"Some residential units in Pattaya are moving upmarket with significant upswings in price," said Richard Ellis' David Simister.

"Thailand is a very unique package because it has a good range of offerings -- transportation, international food, ability to own a yacht, a reasonably priced lifestyle, and a genuinely hospitable population," he said.

-AFP

[Moonfruit]

This fellow made a big mistake moving to hua hin if he wanted quality schooling for his boy.

There are NO international schools within 180km of Hua Hin.

[simon43]

Property prices in Phuket tend to be higher than the rest of Thailand. Condos built to western specification cost from 65,000 baht to more than 100,000 baht per square meter.

[\quote]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!! Someone is being ripped off bigtime with these charges!!!!

Simon - (Currently building to western spec at about 10,000 baht psm)

[eljeque]

Foreigners cannot own land in Thailand, but they can own a condo or a house.

THIS IS NEWS TO ME ABOUT OWNING HOUSES

Pattaya, still best known for its raucous red-light district, has seen sales double since mid-2005, with prices jumping by 50 percent since the third quarter last year, she said.

PRICES JUMPING 50% SINCE THE THIRD QUARTER LAST YEAR?

HASN'T THIS MAN SEEN THE GLUT OF UNSOLD HOUSES AT LAST YEAR'S PRICES?

[geoffphuket]

Foreigners cannot own land in Thailand, but they can own a condo or a house.

THIS IS NEWS TO ME ABOUT OWNING HOUSES

Pattaya, still best known for its raucous red-light district, has seen sales double since mid-2005, with prices jumping by 50 percent since the third quarter last year, she said.

PRICES JUMPING 50% SINCE THE THIRD QUARTER LAST YEAR?

HASN'T THIS MAN SEEN THE GLUT OF UNSOLD HOUSES AT LAST YEAR'S PRICES?

Foreigners can own (some) condo's, or a house in THEIR name. They cannot however, own the land the house stands on.

[pepi1]

All I can say, is this month I have been inundated with properties for sale. In Hua Hin, Rayong and Sriratcha. To me there appears to be a glut of unsold properties!

[Rinrada]

Ask them to knock off ..say 50% from the asking price and see wot happens....

[naturalpoints]

Ask them to knock off ..say 50% from the asking price and see wot happens....

True mate.............That Swedish or Spanish geezer is out of his mind!!!!

[suiging]

Ask them to knock off ..say 50% from the asking price and see wot happens....

True mate.............That Swedish or Spanish geezer is out of his mind!!!!

Across the land there is a glut of crap built by cowboy developers who have brought the tightening of local laws to a head by their greed. However, there is a shortage of quality property and this may well be the source of the outrageous claims. At the end of the day don't knock it. If well healed Europeans read and believe such drivel, they may well come to the LOS to spend their pile in their dotage. This can only help with infrastructure projects so badly needed in such places as jolly Patters. The local war lords only listen when money talks, so lets hope they bring some in.

[Heng]

Sounds like a simple marketing piece that one can order up in just about any language, targeting just about any market/nationality. You can have an article written targeting Uzbeks if you wanted, saying how the LOS is now Little Uzbekistan.

[womble]

Property prices in Phuket tend to be higher than the rest of Thailand. Condos built to western specification cost from 65,000 baht to more than 100,000 baht per square meter.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!! Someone is being ripped off bigtime with these charges!!!!

Simon - (Currently building to western spec at about 10,000 baht psm)

I'm not being rude, but I don't think i'd want to see the end product. You cannot build to western spec for 10,000 baht psm, it's impossible. Western spec means western piping, western electrics, western everything, so you may have a western bedroom, a western kitchen and a western bathroom, but it doesn't make you house western standard. The windows will not be double glazed and much of the finishing will more than likley be shoddy. It's the finishing that they really are not good at here. They never tape up the light switches, doors etc, there's so many shortcuts they take that if your not watching them every minute of the day you will often end up with a messy end result.

To build a house fully to western spec will cost you 20,000 psm +, More than likely closer to 30,000.

[OldAsiaHand]

......To build a house fully to western spec will cost you 20,000 psm +, More than likely closer to 30,000.

Spot on. We'd been thinking of building a vacation house (decided not to, however) and these are exactly the figures our (western) architect gave us to use as a rule of thumb for estimating costs generally in the Bangkok region.

[pepi1]

I have just received email from developer near HuaHin reducing house price of two properties by 20% if I can give dep. in the next 2 weeks. Are prices dropping there?

[percy2]

Foreigners cannot own land in Thailand, but they can own a condo or a house.

THIS IS NEWS TO ME ABOUT OWNING HOUSES

Pattaya, still best known for its raucous red-light district, has seen sales double since mid-2005, with prices jumping by 50 percent since the third quarter last year, she said.

PRICES JUMPING 50% SINCE THE THIRD QUARTER LAST YEAR?

HASN'T THIS MAN SEEN THE GLUT OF UNSOLD HOUSES AT LAST YEAR'S PRICES?

Foreigners can own (some) condo's, or a house in THEIR name. They cannot however, own the land the house stands on.

Not quite true.

I believe that if you invest $1mil. you can own land upto 1 rai.

[Thaising]

I have just received email from developer near HuaHin reducing house price of two properties by 20% if I can give dep. in the next 2 weeks. Are prices dropping there?

It does not matter whether the prices have drop, what matter most is foreign ownership laws. Check the latest land ownership regulation before you place your deposit.

[simon43]

Actually, I do sit and watch mu builders all day . . .

Having built my own house in the UK to high standards, (build cost was 300,000 pounds), I'm aware of the requirements re western quality property over here.

Actually, even I have been surprised by this low cost. But then I'm not having to pay an architect % (it was a flat rate payment). My builders are family and charge no profit margin. Our suppliers joke with me about how much they are over-charging other 'farang' builders for the same item. (Sure helps to speak and read/write the language...)

The only problem is that knowledge of what the real costs are has put me off buying a condo in Phuket for renting out etc. I realise now how much profit the companies are making!

Simon

[rishi]

When i red the OP, my immidiately thought was that it deserved only one reponse ... Heng beat me to make that response:

Sounds like a simple marketing piece that one can order up in just about any language, targeting just about any market/nationality. You can have an article written targeting Uzbeks if you wanted, saying how the LOS is now Little Uzbekistan.

[Charma]

To quote the title:

"Don't AFP know that recent laws on farang ownership has change" (sic)

The title suggests that the law changed. It did not. There have been many suggestions that the law is going to be enforced in respect of company purchases.

We are now a few months into all the publicity about this clamp down on foriegn ownership. I have posted this question elsewhere and have yet to get any answers.

Is anyone out there aware of anyone (a real person not a rumour) who has lost land or property as a result of the clampdown?

(edit for typo)

Edited July 25, 2006 by Charma

[Ollie]

I have just received email from developer near HuaHin reducing house price of two properties by 20% if I can give dep. in the next 2 weeks. Are prices dropping there?

Hey Pepi1,

Can you name them? I'm in for a place at the moment and would hate to learn its the same you're being offered cheaper! If you don't feel comfortable with that, could you pm me?

Thanks

Ollie

[donx]

We are now a few months into all the publicity about this clamp down on foriegn ownership. I have posted this question elsewhere and have yet to get any answers.

Is anyone out there aware of anyone (a real person not a rumour) who has lost land or property as a result of the clampdown?

Charma,

I believe your question has been answered by the fact that no one has actually responded. Until someone says they know of someone that has lost land, I would assume that the clampdown has only affected new land transfers.

Also see what Clipper747 is saying in another thread in this forum about recently buying land through the company route in Bangkok.

[suiging]

We are now a few months into all the publicity about this clamp down on foriegn ownership. I have posted this question elsewhere and have yet to get any answers.

Is anyone out there aware of anyone (a real person not a rumour) who has lost land or property as a result of the clampdown?

Charma,

I believe your question has been answered by the fact that no one has actually responded. Until someone says they know of someone that has lost land, I would assume that the clampdown has only affected new land transfers.

Also see what Clipper747 is saying in another thread in this forum about recently buying land through the company route in Bangkok.

I have been informed by my legal type that even if you are subject of scrutiny, under the same Thai law you have one year to get your house ( pardon the pun ) in order. In short time to restructure to an acceptable way so you should not loose your shirt

[thaigene2]

Yes, I doubt they have the capacity to go after all the foreigners who own houses/land via their small LTD companies. It's the new companies that try to set up for home purchase that are in for a rough ride.

But what happens when the existing companies file their annual returns? Could they come under the magnifying glass at that point (e.g. your only asset is a house, how much value do the Thai shareholders have)??

Regarding these news reports, Heng is right - it's the type of story where the reporter either doesn't understand the situation and just repeats the spin he's been given by salespeople.

Have you noticed the most recent reports in the biz section of the Post and Nation? All talking about a down turn in the property sector - but not ONE will even mention the catastophic loss of foreign conifidence as a reason for this drop...it's alwasy something else..political uncertainties, etc..a joke.

[geoffphuket]

Foreigners cannot own land in Thailand, but they can own a condo or a house.

THIS IS NEWS TO ME ABOUT OWNING HOUSES

Pattaya, still best known for its raucous red-light district, has seen sales double since mid-2005, with prices jumping by 50 percent since the third quarter last year, she said.

PRICES JUMPING 50% SINCE THE THIRD QUARTER LAST YEAR?

HASN'T THIS MAN SEEN THE GLUT OF UNSOLD HOUSES AT LAST YEAR'S PRICES?

Foreigners can own (some) condo's, or a house in THEIR name. They cannot however, own the land the house stands on.

Not quite true.

I believe that if you invest $1mil. you can own land upto 1 rai.

Ooooh....So if I increase the price of my house/land I'm selling in Patong to $1M, Farang can own it ?

[Dragonman]

Foreigners cannot own land in Thailand, but they can own a condo or a house.

THIS IS NEWS TO ME ABOUT OWNING HOUSES

Pattaya, still best known for its raucous red-light district, has seen sales double since mid-2005, with prices jumping by 50 percent since the third quarter last year, she said.

PRICES JUMPING 50% SINCE THE THIRD QUARTER LAST YEAR?

HASN'T THIS MAN SEEN THE GLUT OF UNSOLD HOUSES AT LAST YEAR'S PRICES?

Foreigners can own (some) condo's, or a house in THEIR name. They cannot however, own the land the house stands on.

Not quite true.

I believe that if you invest $1mil. you can own land upto 1 rai.

Ooooh....So if I increase the price of my house/land I'm selling in Patong to $1M, Farang can own it ?

Sorry geoff, it has to be agreed by the Board of Investment as an approved Investment, and from my knowledge none have yet been approved.

With regard to the OP, as others have said this is standard propoganda from the "how to become a successful Agent/Developer" handbook.

[Stefan Beck]

Hu Hin,

is the spot.

If you have a real interest in this area - my best friend (farang - Dutch) and his Thai partner (who have several small buildings to their credit (soil 22 Titanium and s few others) are half way through a 20 unit development in Hua directly on the beach.

Prices start around $2m mark

If you gave an interest please PM me and I will give you some realistic details & figures.

Kindest Stefan

[Woodentop]

Hu Hin,

is the spot.

If you have a real interest in this area - my best friend (farang - Dutch) and his Thai partner (who have several small buildings to their credit (soil 22 Titanium and s few others) are half way through a 20 unit development in Hua directly on the beach.

Prices start around $2m mark

If you gave an interest please PM me and I will give you some realistic details & figures.

Kindest Stefan

=========================

Stefan, please inform us if it is USD or THB... If it is USD you will for sure piss into the wind. Good on yer mate, but get real. Prices will for sure come down in Thailand, perhaps a bit slowly ("sticky prices"), but down they will come. Two million US dollars is an obcene amount of money to spend on a property (ihmo), at least I would like to do other things in my life. But I am a poor sod....