Thinking about people in overstay

[jspill]

Why do you think they made the rule?
For collecting fines?

Yes, that's one secondary and profitable reason. It's a way of making those who stay longer than they paid for, pay on the way out. If a single entry tourist visa earns the Kingdom its fee of 1000 Baht and allows for a 60 day stay, the 20,000 Baht max overstay fee is returning 20 months worth of stay to the Kingdom.

The primary reason is a deterrent to people with zero funds arriving on a 30 day visa exemption, and disappearing into the system.

If someone had plenty of funds however, wasn't involved in any legal activity, and deliberately overstayed I wouldn't think any less of them. Thailand provides no social benefits, healthcare, unrestricted employment, land ownership, or automatic citizenship after a given time period, so how are they harming the country in any way. They're probably quite smart not getting in deathtrap mini vans and small south east Asian airlines with poor safety records.

Also, neither you or me are guests in this country, we both, whether we live here or are geniune tourists etc, are contributing to Thailands economy, some of us have to do this ridiculous 90 day reporting, and look at the hassle to get extensions based on marriage etc. That is no way to treat guests, us expats are not guests, we are tolerated because of what we bring to Thailands economy.

+1

[poweratradio]

What might be a nightmare for you is obviously a walk in the park for some!

Considering some never leave the luxery of the village except to hit big \c and everyone that knows him loves him cops included for he is a generous soul

[Tayida]

On my last job,there was this German man.one day I saw his passport.395 days on/in overstay.His feelings?Just drive normally his bike in Chang Mai........

[hawker9000]

deliberate willful overstay is inexcusable and IS the business of everyone else who's observing the law and wants to preserve one's welcome as a responsible and respectful visitor.

I'm yet to meet a Thai who has such a strong position on the matter, most reports of paying overstay at Suvarnabhumi have the officers grinning and laughing, 'see you next time' etc.

Thai's would be quite surprised reading this thread to see how uptight westerners can get about a minor misdemeanor, to go to such lengths as to tell other expats they are undermining their welcome in the country.

Sorry, but I'm just routinely dismissive when someone claims to have their "finger on the pulse" of everyone in Thailand, and tries to present that as some sort of definitive justification for doing (or not doing) something.

Fact is, it IS against the law in a country in which you're a guest (yes, a guest; a paying guest, but still a guest). No doubt some Thais could care less. No less doubt some do care. My position is that foreigners shouldn't be giving their hosts a reason to resent them by breaking their laws! (And before you ask, I AM resentful of foreigners who do it in MY home country, and believe they should be treated in accordance with their rudeness and irresponsibility.)

I'm not suggesting that we should all be looking over each others' shoulders and making everyone's visa status our personal business. Quite the opposite. I'm a big believer in personal responsibility and accountability; but I'm also a believer in consequences. I just simply am not supportive of or sympathetic with overstay scofflaws, wouldn't allow myself to become an "aider & abettor" of such people, and wouldn't knowingly associate with them. When Thai authorities find one and deal with him, I'm more than OK with it.

[Gecko123]

When I went in to renew my retirement visa in August, Immigration had me sign the following "Acknowledgment of Penalties for a Visa Overstay":

In the case that the alien surrenders himself/herself:

Overstay more than 90 days forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 1 year

Overstay more than 1 year forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 3 years

Overstay more than 3 years forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years

Overstay more than 5 years forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 10 years

In the case that the alien is being apprehended:

Overstay for less than 1 year forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 year

Overstay for more than 1 year forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 10 years

[Oziex1]

When I went in to renew my retirement visa in August, Immigration had me sign the following "Acknowledgment of Penalties for a Visa Overstay":

In the case that the alien surrenders himself/herself:

Overstay more than 90 days forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 1 year

Overstay more than 1 year forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 3 years

Overstay more than 3 years forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years

Overstay more than 5 years forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 10 years

In the case that the alien is being apprehended:

Overstay for less than 1 year forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 year

Overstay for more than 1 year forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 10 years

So contrary to what others post, this is the new law and it's a reality.

[watcharacters]

What might be a nightmare for you is obviously a walk in the park for some!

To the OP. If you want to live by and obey everybodys rules and regulations, then why bother to get out of bed in the morning? I will say that if I was an overstayer, I would always be looking over my shoulder, I just can't understand anyone who does this. I do admit to having broke some of Thailands laws, and plenty back in Scotland because I do not agree with them, ie, driving a new truck with red no plates out of my Province, and also during darkness etc.

Some chose not to follow the rules.

[brianp0803]

Those who are following the rules are being made aware of the new penalty for not following the rules.

Is it reality or still a threat?

Is the news being propagate to those that never leave their village?

If you commit a crime when the consequences are small but later the consequences increase what should be the penalty?

Although overstay is a continuing crime.

Some people have recently posted about clearing long time overstays.

The new penalty has been proposed for a long time.

Why did they wait so long?

Didn't hear about the increased penalty?

No money?

Lazy to take action(easier)?

Didn't believe it will actually happen (this is Thailand)?

Terminology: not a new law but increased consequences of breaking existing law.

Edited October 12, 2014 by brianp0803

[hawker9000]

Just my way of seeing things, but knowingly staying on the wrong side of the law, in a foreign country, because the penalties have been relatively minor or even non-existent up until now, seems like a foolhardy game to be playing. The rules & penalties can change at any time. You have no say. No legal recourse. You could easily find yourself at the mercy of some totally uncaring bureaucrat or LE officer working on the quota system... You even stand a chance of being made a scapegoat and an example of. It's not your ball and not your court. You can find yourself in a real bind if the stakes are suddenly raised beyond what you thought you could handle. I understand that some people just like to roll the dice, but there shouldn't be any moaning or wailing when it all goes south.

[jspill]

When I went in to renew my retirement visa in August, Immigration had me sign the following "Acknowledgment of Penalties for a Visa Overstay":

Posted on the forums months ago.

So contrary to what others post, this is the new law and it's a reality.

Nope, just an acknowlegement of pending penalties, pending for months now and potentially shelved / forgotten like so many other things in this relaxed country. Ask the moderators or check other threads. Here is moderator UbonJoe saying the rules are not in effect three times in the last few weeks:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/761966-status-of-new-overstay-rules/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/760039-overstayed-for-almost-30-days-can-i-come-back-next-month/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/757945-overstay-for-7-months-can-i-fly-back-home-from-pitsanulok/

Edited October 12, 2014 by jspill

[hawker9000]

When I went in to renew my retirement visa in August, Immigration had me sign the following "Acknowledgment of Penalties for a Visa Overstay":

Posted on the forums months ago.

So contrary to what others post, this is the new law and it's a reality.

Nope, just an acknowlegement of pending penalties, pending for months now and potentially shelved / forgotten like so many other things in this relaxed country. Ask the moderators or check other threads. Here is moderator UbonJoe saying the rules are not in effect three times in the last few weeks:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/761966-status-of-new-overstay-rules/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/760039-overstayed-for-almost-30-days-can-i-come-back-next-month/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/757945-overstay-for-7-months-can-i-fly-back-home-from-pitsanulok/

I agree. Consistency isn't exactly the key word here. My understanding also is that it's not in effect yet (although if you'd asked me a few months ago I would have thought it would be by now...). But that doesn't mean that in some places they're not handing out this thing and having you sign it. Just like it doesn't mean that some folks showing up at an immigration desk in front of one IO or another won't be turned back for having overstays in their passports they thought were settled, while others get past with no comment. Just like it doesn't mean that an immigration official in Bangkok says no worries about not carrying your passport around with you while the fellow in Hua Hin says you absolutely must. Etc., etc., etc. But I've been watching for it, and don't remember seeing anywhere that this schedule of overstay penalties has actually gone into effect yet. But if you're on overstay, it's probably not a bad idea to get it squared away now rather than waiting for somebody to suddenly announce it was in effect 3 weeks ago...

[jspill]

If the rules get pushed through there will likely be an effective date set, e.g. 6 months into the future. Ubonjoe posted that's how new laws work. An actual change to immigration law such as adding blacklisting is nothing like verbal disagreements between provinces as to whether you need to carry your passport or not. It's a lot more involved. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/741637-overstay-question/#entry8081403

Just like it doesn't mean that some folks showing up at an immigration desk in front of one IO or another won't be turned back for having overstays in their passports they thought were settled, while others get past with no comment.

Each IO is different on minor things like turning you back (to just try the next day) when they're in a bad mood but that isn't comparable to the power to blacklist you for life, they don't have that power at all.

it's probably not a bad idea to get it squared away now rather than waiting for somebody to suddenly announce it was in effect 3 weeks ago

I'm not saying people should be blasé about sorting out their overstay, I'm pointing out how if Thailand was as morally outraged at overstay as the average Thavisa poster, maybe they would've implemented the law by now. Seems foreigners haven't worn out their welcome yet.

Edited October 12, 2014 by jspill

[hawker9000]

Yeah, it actually sounds like you're advising complacency. Up to you (and anyone currently in an overstay status). I guess one man's wake-up call is another man's cry of wolf. I'm not in the situation, but if I were, I'd be handling it more seriously and not taking the things you're saying for granted. But that's just me.

Edited October 12, 2014 by hawker9000