UK MPs to vote on recognising Palestine as a state

[Jingthing]

PM David Cameron will be ABSTAINING from the vote.

Here a British MP with some common sense explains why the passage of this recognition AT THIS TIME is a bad idea. Also of course: it actually changes nothing REAL.

“The vote to look at a pre-emptive recognition of a Palestinian state, way before successful peace negotiations, is not right,” Burrowes said.

“It might make a political statement, it may have meaning to Labor politicians, but it won’t go anywhere in being able to support peace.” said Burrowes.

Even British policy according to Cameron.

A spokesman for British Prime Minister David Cameron clarified on Monday that the country’s policy will not change, even if lawmakers on Monday vote in favor of a motion stating that the government should recognize Palestine as a state.

"I've been pretty clear about the government's position and it won't be changing," Cameron's spokesman

From a trustworthy Zionist source, the Jerusalem Post:

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/British-MP-in-Israel-Symbolic-vote-on-Palestinian-statehood-is-a-mistake-378737

Edited October 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[Thorgal]

That's nothing new...from another 'neutral' source...of a previous school trip...

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/03/12/uk-pm-cameron-to-israels-knesset-we’ll-be-with-you-every-step-of-the-way/

Edited October 13, 2014 by Thorgal

[Jingthing]

Good for him.

[7by7]

Hamas have not changed. What nonsense. Will the UK recognize this kind of hatred?

I don't know when that episode was broadcast; but the bee character last appeared in February 2008 and the programme itself was last broadcast in October 2009 (source)

So using an episode which is at least 6 years old from a programme cancelled 5 years ago to 'prove' that Hamas have not changed since is a bit ridiculous; even by your standards.

Of course, Israel would never do such a thing to their children; would they?

[Petchou]

To. Understand well that for more than 50 years all Israelis government have been lying and they have not intention for peace or for two states. Their dream is the big Israel, more land to colonize and more Palestinians kids to kill, that's the objective of Zionism.

Here is the proof, Netanyahu caught in camera without knowing being filmed, listen to what he says, in bottom of video there is complete transcript of the video to read.

Thanks,

.

[Thorgal]

Perhaps the adult inside Nadul the Bee died or became again operational for Mossad in Operation Cast Lead...

Edited October 13, 2014 by Thorgal

[Bwanatickey]

This recognition in Westminster is just symbolic, it will mean nothing.

Thanks for the Neurotic posts from some of you, pure entertainment.

[Chicog]

The vote is expected to come around midnight.

Worth noting by the way that Gorgeous George, Chief Imam MP for Bradford will not participate because the proposal also recognises Israel.

If you want to watch the debate, the stream is here:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.620558

Not exactly a stunning turnout, although of course remember that they have access to a fabulous free bar.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Chicog

[Jingthing]

...

Worth noting by the way that Gorgeous George, Chief Imam MP for Bradford will not participate because the proposal also recognises Israel.

...

He's a real piece of work, that one.

[Jonmarleesco]

Should the US climb onto the fence, instead of standing on one side of it, Israel might be forced to reconsider its approach.

[Jingthing]

Should the US climb onto the fence, instead of standing on one side of it, Israel might be forced to reconsider its approach.

No, they shouldn't and they will not ever support this unilateral effort without the cooperation of Israel.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[Chicog]

Should the US climb onto the fence, instead of standing on one side of it, Israel might be forced to reconsider its approach.

No, they shouldn't and they will not ever support this unilateral effort without the cooperation of Israel.

How odd that your post says "No, the USA should continue to stand up for the right of Israel to exist and defend herself in the face of genocidal radical Islamist Jihadist forces like the government of Gaza."

But when I reply I get the above.

So there is no point in me pointing out the irony of using "Israel" and "Genocide" in the same sentence.

Added: Ah OK, must be some delay in SQL updating the database.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Chicog

[Jingthing]

The Hamas charter indeed shows genocidal intentions and the target is the Jews of Israel. Which is why most supporters of Israel can't get behind a unilateral recognition of a state that includes Hamas as part of it's governing body.

I made the edit to keep the response more on topic ... directly relating to the vote now happening in the UK, of recognition of this so called Palestine state which includes recognition of genocidal Hamas.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[Chicog]

The Hamas charter indeed shows genocidal intentions and the target is the Jews of Israel. Which is why most supporters of Israel can't get behind a unilateral recognition of a state that includes Hamas as part of it's governing body.

I made the edit to keep the response more on topic ... directly relating to the vote now happening in the UK, of recognition of this so called Palestine state which includes recognition of genocidal Hamas.

There was me thinking you had realised that killing a couple of thousand men, women and children fits snugly into the definition of "genocide".

Anyway, the motion has been amended to delay recognition until a peace deal has been agreed.

All a bit pointless really.

[Chicog]

Now it's been amended to make recognition part of a two state solution.

The Ayes have it 274-12.

I suppose we'll wait and see what the political world makes of it.

[Jingthing]

...There was me thinking you had realised that killing a couple of thousand men, women and children fits snugly into the definition of "genocide".

...

Perhaps we can discuss that (again) when there is a topic about it. Not this one. Cheers.

[Jingthing]

Now it's been amended to make recognition part of a two state solution.

The Ayes have it 274-12.

I suppose we'll wait and see what the political world makes of it.

OK.

Pretty much nothing.

Next ... !

[NeverSure]

Should the US climb onto the fence, instead of standing on one side of it, Israel might be forced to reconsider its approach.

What the heck are you on about?

The US stands aside, Israel gets attacked, it's another 6 day war. As spoils of war, Israel takes something more than Sinai peninsula, the Golan Heights, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem as they did in the 6 day war? 1967 all over again with the "Palestinians" anihilated?

Consider that just maybe the relationship with the US is the only thing that keeps Israel from turning so-called "Palestine" into a glass parking lot.

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas have not changed. What nonsense. Will the UK recognize this kind of hatred?

I don't know when that episode was broadcast; but the bee character last appeared in February 2008 and the programme itself was last broadcast in October 2009.

Let's get this straight. You are going to nitpick about this hateful video being only 6 years old - right about when your pal in Hamas was claiming that they had changed their evil ways. Hamas killed three Jewish teenagers just a few months ago. How are you going to spin that?

There is a reason why you are called an apologist for radical Islam - which you complain about constantly - and trying to pretend that Hamas' genocidal charter is passé is a perfect example of why. The Hamas terrorists have not changed.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Seastallion]

The Hamas charter indeed shows genocidal intentions and the target is the Jews of Israel. Which is why most supporters of Israel can't get behind a unilateral recognition of a state that includes Hamas as part of it's governing body.

I made the edit to keep the response more on topic ... directly relating to the vote now happening in the UK, of recognition of this so called Palestine state which includes recognition of genocidal Hamas.

There was me thinking you had realised that killing a couple of thousand men, women and children fits snugly into the definition of "genocide".

Anyway, the motion has been amended to delay recognition until a peace deal has been agreed.

All a bit pointless really.

Absolutely pointless. It is clear that Israel, especially under a Netanyahu/Likud government will never sign a deal until they get what their stated mission insists on; Israel's eastern border to be the Jordan River (where is Palestinian West Bank?), Jerusalem totally Israeli, and several other huge and significant swathes of extra land.

Essentially, the UK motion has just bolstered Israel's cause; to keep settling on more land, to expand their borders to a point where the 1967 scenario will be impossible.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Seastallion

[Ulysses G.]

"Essentially, the UK motion has just bolstered Israel's cause"

The vote has no practical significance since it does not oblige the British government to change its current policy of recognizing Palestine only after a peace deal is reached between Israel and the Palestinians as the Oslo Accords require. Time for Hamas and the Palestinians to stop the lies and deceitful delaying tactics, if they actually ever want their own country.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

Off-topic reported posts and replies have been removed.

[7by7]

Hamas have not changed. What nonsense. Will the UK recognize this kind of hatred?

I don't know when that episode was broadcast; but the bee character last appeared in February 2008 and the programme itself was last broadcast in October 2009.

Let's get this straight. You are going to nitpick about this hateful video being only 6 years old - right about when your pal in Hamas was claiming that they had changed their evil ways. Hamas killed three Jewish teenagers just a few months ago. How are you going to spin that?

There is a reason why you are called an apologist for radical Islam - which you complain about constantly - and trying to pretend that Hamas' genocidal charter is passé is a perfect example of why. The Hamas terrorists have not changed.

I notice that you have not commented on the video showing Israeli children who have been so indoctrinated that they say they want to join the IDF to "kill Arabs!"

Not "defend Israel" not "defend my homeland" but specifically to "kill Arabs!"

It seems that even you cannot defend that!

The suspected murderers of the teenagers you mention were suspected Hamas militants. The Israeli security forces killed them before the truth about their membership of Hamas and whether or not the killing was Hamas approved could be established; how convenient.

You may say that Hussam Badran praised the killers, but as has been discussed at length elsewhere, he no longer represents mainstream Hamas.

Hamas have changed; Israel must recognise that or there will never be peace.

The more you post, the more it seems you will only accept peace when Palestine has been absorbed into a Greater Israel and the Palestinian people totally subjugated.

I can only hope that the Israeli government do not hold the same view; though all their actions demonstrate that they might!

[Jingthing]

Yes I know that many Israel demonizers intentionally want to isolate Israel and pressure them into changing to their desires (many of them openly want Israel to not exist as well, and basically have the exact same politics as Hamas). They think that tactic will work. History will tell, but for now, as said, they are driving Israel farther to the right making chance of real peace negotiations even less remote.

History shows that as long as the US keeps providing political and financial support for Israel they will continue to show utter disregard for global opinion.

Threaten to pull that particular plug and things will change extremely quickly.

Send me a memo when the USA unilaterally recognizes a fictional Palestinian state.

As reported this UK recognition is extremely conditional as well and isn't really what the Israel demonizers wanted anyway.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Jingthing

[Thorgal]

Curious to know if Palestine as soon as they have a state will introduce their 'lone soldiers'...

[Thorgal]

Curious to know if Palestine as soon as they have a state will introduce their 'lone soldiers'...

I guess there would be a lot of questions in the event of an ACTUAL Palestinian state. Here's another good one -- will they ever invite Jews to become citizens of their Palestine state? People accuse Israel of apartheid racism ... funny about the 20 percent Arab Israeli citizens of Israel.

I think yes, they can obtain Palestinian citizenship if they can prove good behaviour and may not be linked to any previous or future terrorist activity.

Just to secure Palestinian Homeland Security.

But they will never be entitled to own land on a chanote in Palestine due to the uninterrupted settler campaign.

I think the 20% of Israeli Arabs have most chances...

Edited October 14, 2014 by Thorgal

[jacky54]

Hamas has changed.

This has to be the biggest lie I have ever read on this forum.

[7by7]

That it is not believed by the Israeli government and their militant supporters does not make it a lie.

The Israeli government and their militant supporters wont believe it as doing so means that they no longer have any excuse for not recognising Palestine and so negotiating a two state solution with the Palestinians.

Edited October 14, 2014 by 7by7

[Chicog]

Probably the most meaningful comment I heard during last night's debate went along the lines of:

"If we want the Palestinians to turn away from people of violence, we have to give them some hope".

And I think that is both erudite and accurate.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Chicog

[jacky54]

when they change their hate charter calling for Israel's destruction then i will start to think they might be changing, not doing so for 'internal reasons' just shows me they have not changed and are not willing to even consider it.