Sex Tourism

[Maigo6]

Is that what you look for then? "Full English Breakfasts?"

I've never been to Crazy Daves in my life.

This thread reminds me of a few years ago on this forum, well done to the Mods for letting this thread run.

[Kerryd]

Dave you are a pimp.

That is sample.

Not my problem that you are stupid pimp.

Maybe you hire me to teach you how to make more.

It is a pity to be a pimp and make so little.

I think you should pm me so at least we can have a benifit for you.

Michael from England eh ? Skipped a few English classes at school did you ?

Probably also skipped reading the forum rules. Not surprising. Scintillating posts, like his 2 contributions here and this one:

MichaelFromEngland 2006-07-10 17:37:54 Post #207

I think all Thaliand women should have the right to rip off the farang.

The farang should be happy and send them more money.

If he has no more money he should go back to his county and steal to get more money for Thai girl.

That will make all him a good man with a good heart.

Better yet don't come to Thailand just send money.

Someone who is from England (?), works for a large hotel chain (?) and has lived here 12 years (?) and barely speaks/types English ?

Troll would come to mind, but that's just me.

[mrbojangles]

Troll would come to mind, but that's just me.

What, your calling yourself a Troll

Seriously though, seconded. I think MichealFromEngland is really TipFromThailand and has been dumped by a sexy English man. I think the honey isn't getting any more money!!

[Stephen Cleary]

Somehow falang bar owners justify collecting the "bar fine".

In America this is known as pimping and is not only looked down upon but is illegal.

Anyone else have a problem with this?

Seems kind of rotten to take advantage of someones misfortune to make money.

The girls obviously do it because they were born poor with few opportunities.

Shouldn't falangs set a better example and not exploit them?

I notice that this guy opened the thread with a few question marks.

But why did he even bother, when he had all the answers anyway....?.

He posts "The girls obviously do it because they were born........etc...." I have read comments expanding on exactly what he had originally mentioned - but he reads like he doesn't want anyone to answer his questions........

It seems like the OP already knows everything! So, why did he bothering asking for answers in the first place.

Bewildering......

[Thaible]

This is a country that is seething with violent Thai men upset by the education (female college graduates far exceed male college graduates) and earning power and independence of Thai women.

And farang men really wonder why Thai men don't like most of them? Nice job in shifting the blame and insulting all Thai men. Yes, I'm sure you moved here to "save" Thai women - hahaha.

Edited July 25, 2006 by Thaible

[Savage]

I feel that you have got nothing straight at all. Only in your own head to justify the fact that you exploit the girls situations. If a man came in to any business other then yours and asked to take out a female employee the boss would simply say no!!!

He barely changed any words and yet highlighted the similarities between some bar owners and drug dealers. I stand by my original opinion, it was a good post.

Except that it seems he only thinks this applies to "farang" bar owners, and has the opinion that all "farang" bar owners are pimps.

And as far as comparing bar owners to drug dealers ? Utterly ridiculous. Makes me seriously wonder if he has even the slightest clue what he is talking about.

Drug dealers like to get their clientele hooked on drugs. The addictive nature of those drugs doesn't matter to the dealer. All he is concerned about is getting more and more people hooked, so he can sell more and more drugs.

Try spending time in an area like the lower East Side of Vancouver. Talk to some of the social workers and some of the few that have been able to kick the habit. Talk to the police that have to deal with the dealers and their victims every day. Then tell me that drug dealers and bar owners are "same same".

What a load of crap.

The vast majority of the girls working in bars are there voluntarily. They may face pressure from family to earn money, but pretty much all the girls I've known came here on their own. They've heard from friends and other "relatives" about the big money that can be made.

Many don't tell their families what they do for a living. Some tell their families that they work as hair dressers and such. They want to be able to return home with their heads held high one day. Their families and neighbours may have their suspicions, but as long as it isn't voiced openly, everyone pretty much ignores the reality.

Many of the girls I know send at least half their income home to their parents.

Many of them have children at home, the result of dead-beat Thai boyfriends who dumped them when they got knocked up.

Yeah, they could take their grade 8 education and get a good job sweeping streets for minimum wage. Work their butts off in the hot sun everyday doing construction work, or collecting garbage. Of course, by the time they pay for their accommodations, food and day-to-day needs, it doesn't leave a lot to raise a child on, does it ?

So they go to work in the bars. Many of them earn more in a couple of years, than their parents earned in their whole lifetimes. Some use their money to pay off their parents debts and to support their children. Some bank the money. Some spend it like there's no tomorrow, just like I did during my first few years in the army.

Many girls work the trade for a few years until they have enough stashed away to meet their needs, then they quit and go home. Nobody forces them to stay.

Some meet nice guys, get married and quit working. Some don't (get married or quit working).

Meanwhile, bars exist to make money selling booze. They hire girls (mostly) to sell and serve the booze. Guys (mostly) go to the bars to drink and pick-up women. They could go to the malls, convenience stores and restaurants to pick up women (some do), but guess what ? Most of those women can't just up and leave work at a whim ! They'd get fired, period. No job, no money.

Bars are no different. They make most, if not all, their money selling BOOZE. Got it ? Booze.

A bar without staff wouldn't be able to operate now, would it ?

Yet some people seem to think that they should be able to take girls away from the bar, while they are working, without penalty or compensation.

They have no problem with morality when it comes to engaging in prostitution, but are resentful that a bar wants to be compensated for losing the services of an employee.

I tell you what. Next time you go to work, spend about an hour there, then just get up and leave. Go eat, hit a bar, get drunk and go home.

Go to work the next day. Spend an hour or two there, then leave. Go eat, drink, party and go home.

Do it all again the next day.

Oh wait. Probably won't be a next day, will there ? Your butt will probably be fired and rightfully so. What boss would put up with behaviour like that ?

Yet you seem to think that "farang" bar owners should put up with that kind of behaviour.

Which reminds me. Why is OK for the all the Thai bar owners (which represents the majority of bar owners) to charge bar fines, but "farang" bar owners are pimps for doing the same thing ?

Get something straight. The bar-fine has NOTHING to do with sex.

How many times do you have to be told ? The bar fine is a fee the GIRL has to pay in order to leave her workplace without penalty.

SHE has to pay it, even if SHE just wants to leave work by herself, or decides SHE doesn't want to work at all that day.

From what I've seen/heard, the amount SHE pays to bar fine HERSELF, is less than what is required if YOU are paying HER fine for HER.

SHE will (usually) get you to pay HER bar fine. In that case, SHE gets a cut of the bar fine.

Even if you pay HER bar fine, she is in NO WAY committed to having sex with you. Got it ?

I doubt you'll understand it though.

Quite a few people losers seem to think paying the bar fine gives them virtual ownership of the girl.

They then get upset and whine like little kids when they find out the girl still has the option, the choice, about what she is/isn't willing to do with said loser.

So tell us, is that what happened ? You went out the other night to a farang-owned bar, paid a girl's bar fine, and she refused to have sex with you ? So now you are bitter towards farang bar owners in general, and specifically those whose bars charge bar fines ?

Are we getting close to the truth here ?

[Wolfie]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen.. please!

I'm getting quite tired with this mudslinging and namecalling. And from the number of 'reported posts' so are a few others.

If things dont calm down to a civilised disucssion about the topic in hand i will be forced to delete yet more posts, but this time i will follow up with warnings and suspensions...

I hope we are all clear on this, thanks for your understanding.

Wolfie

Moderator

[Lacoste]

I feel that you have got nothing straight at all. Only in your own head to justify the fact that you exploit the girls situations. If a man came in to any business other then yours and asked to take out a female employee the boss would simply say no!!!

He barely changed any words and yet highlighted the similarities between some bar owners and drug dealers. I stand by my original opinion, it was a good post.

Except that it seems he only thinks this applies to "farang" bar owners, and has the opinion that all "farang" bar owners are pimps.

And as far as comparing bar owners to drug dealers ? Utterly ridiculous. Makes me seriously wonder if he has even the slightest clue what he is talking about.

Drug dealers like to get their clientele hooked on drugs. The addictive nature of those drugs doesn't matter to the dealer. All he is concerned about is getting more and more people hooked, so he can sell more and more drugs.

Try spending time in an area like the lower East Side of Vancouver. Talk to some of the social workers and some of the few that have been able to kick the habit. Talk to the police that have to deal with the dealers and their victims every day. Then tell me that drug dealers and bar owners are "same same".

What a load of crap.

The vast majority of the girls working in bars are there voluntarily. They may face pressure from family to earn money, but pretty much all the girls I've known came here on their own. They've heard from friends and other "relatives" about the big money that can be made.

Many don't tell their families what they do for a living. Some tell their families that they work as hair dressers and such. They want to be able to return home with their heads held high one day. Their families and neighbours may have their suspicions, but as long as it isn't voiced openly, everyone pretty much ignores the reality.

Many of the girls I know send at least half their income home to their parents.

Many of them have children at home, the result of dead-beat Thai boyfriends who dumped them when they got knocked up.

Yeah, they could take their grade 8 education and get a good job sweeping streets for minimum wage. Work their butts off in the hot sun everyday doing construction work, or collecting garbage. Of course, by the time they pay for their accommodations, food and day-to-day needs, it doesn't leave a lot to raise a child on, does it ?

So they go to work in the bars. Many of them earn more in a couple of years, than their parents earned in their whole lifetimes. Some use their money to pay off their parents debts and to support their children. Some bank the money. Some spend it like there's no tomorrow, just like I did during my first few years in the army.

Many girls work the trade for a few years until they have enough stashed away to meet their needs, then they quit and go home. Nobody forces them to stay.

Some meet nice guys, get married and quit working. Some don't (get married or quit working).

Meanwhile, bars exist to make money selling booze. They hire girls (mostly) to sell and serve the booze. Guys (mostly) go to the bars to drink and pick-up women. They could go to the malls, convenience stores and restaurants to pick up women (some do), but guess what ? Most of those women can't just up and leave work at a whim ! They'd get fired, period. No job, no money.

Bars are no different. They make most, if not all, their money selling BOOZE. Got it ? Booze.

A bar without staff wouldn't be able to operate now, would it ?

Yet some people seem to think that they should be able to take girls away from the bar, while they are working, without penalty or compensation.

They have no problem with morality when it comes to engaging in prostitution, but are resentful that a bar wants to be compensated for losing the services of an employee.

I tell you what. Next time you go to work, spend about an hour there, then just get up and leave. Go eat, hit a bar, get drunk and go home.

Go to work the next day. Spend an hour or two there, then leave. Go eat, drink, party and go home.

Do it all again the next day.

Oh wait. Probably won't be a next day, will there ? Your butt will probably be fired and rightfully so. What boss would put up with behaviour like that ?

Yet you seem to think that "farang" bar owners should put up with that kind of behaviour.

Which reminds me. Why is OK for the all the Thai bar owners (which represents the majority of bar owners) to charge bar fines, but "farang" bar owners are pimps for doing the same thing ?

Get something straight. The bar-fine has NOTHING to do with sex.

How many times do you have to be told ? The bar fine is a fee the GIRL has to pay in order to leave her workplace without penalty.

SHE has to pay it, even if SHE just wants to leave work by herself, or decides SHE doesn't want to work at all that day.

From what I've seen/heard, the amount SHE pays to bar fine HERSELF, is less than what is required if YOU are paying HER fine for HER.

SHE will (usually) get you to pay HER bar fine. In that case, SHE gets a cut of the bar fine.

Even if you pay HER bar fine, she is in NO WAY committed to having sex with you. Got it ?

I doubt you'll understand it though.

Quite a few people losers seem to think paying the bar fine gives them virtual ownership of the girl.

They then get upset and whine like little kids when they find out the girl still has the option, the choice, about what she is/isn't willing to do with said loser.

So tell us, is that what happened ? You went out the other night to a farang-owned bar, paid a girl's bar fine, and she refused to have sex with you ? So now you are bitter towards farang bar owners in general, and specifically those whose bars charge bar fines ?

Are we getting close to the truth here ?

This is the point he does not wish to admit to himself, buying people out of bars so you can have dinner with them etc, what is that all about? Do you think kerryd used to go to his friends place of work in his own country and buy them out there so he could have dinner or go and visit other 'friends' as he put it? These girls are prostitutes and the guy who charges the bar fine can be classed as a pimp.

Sorry to burst your dirty little bubble Kerryd.

[Ling Kae]

Se. At home, it is not a respectable job or career or business to own so why do they think that transplanting it to Asia makes it respectable? And what do they tell their friends and family back home?

I think I may have read that you are originally from Australia, if I'm wrong sorry. Brothels and prostitution have been legal in NSW for about 10 years now and is not considered illegal by any means. To answer your question, the buyers of bars here are hardly transplanting anything, they buy the bars off other Thais willing to make a killing off the key money they get. Buying existing businesses is hardly "transplanting".

By the way where is these new bars on your island that have sprung up you are talking about? I might be going down south and wouldn't mind checking them out, cheers.

[kerryk]

This is a country that is seething with violent Thai men upset by the education (female college graduates far exceed male college graduates) and earning power and independence of Thai women.

And farang men really wonder why Thai men don't like most of them? Nice job in shifting the blame and insulting all Thai men. Yes, I'm sure you moved here to "save" Thai women - hahaha.

The blame for what? Prostitution? It was here long before any round eyes entered the scene. Blame for the success of prostitution? 8 Thai guys as customers for every 2 Farang.

Yes, I have saved a number of Thai women over the years but I am not unusual there are many on this forum who can say the same.

Old Farang guys who came over here and met a bar girl and married her and took her out of the bar business, bought her a house and set her up in business so she would never have to be a bar worker again.

In addition to saving her I saved the whole family by paying for income producing projects on the farm that will support the family for generations to come so no others from the family will enter the bar business out of necessity.

There are a lot of Farang guys who are not fools and will spend money for income producing projects instead of cash payments that are spent on drink and gambling.

You want big sin sot look elsewhere, if you want a fish pond, ginger farm or rubber trees I am your man.

So Thaible, how many Thai women have you saved?

[kerryk]

Lacost quote

This is the point he does not wish to admit to himself, buying people out of bars so you can have dinner with them etc, what is that all about? Do you think kerryd used to go to his friends place of work in his own country and buy them out there so he could have dinner or go and visit other 'friends' as he put it? These girls are prostitutes and the guy who charges the bar fine can be classed as a pimp.

Sorry to burst your dirty little bubble Kerryd.

Response to Lacost

That is just not true. It is common to buy a girl out of a bar for dinner or a evening of fun with friends.

If one has friends that are in the bar business it is common to buy them out for a night for entertainment and not sex.

I personally find it exploitive of the male be it Thai or Farang but it is a common practice.

To explain it to the uninitiated, it works like this. You have a girlfriend who does not work in a bar or maybe it is her day off from the bar. She wants to go out for a party or dinner and her friend or friends work in a bar. She expects her male companion to pay their bar fine so she can enjoy their company. I also assume this gives her status to be able to buy her friends out of the bar. It means her boyfriend has money and loves her.

I did this a few times when I was new to the game but now it would be a cold day in hel before I pay a barfine for one of her friends now.

[Neeranam]

Old Farang guys who came over here and met a bar girl and married her and took her out of the bar business, bought her a house and set her up in business so she would never have to be a bar worker again.

And what thanks do they get 97% of the time?

[kerryk]

Se. At home, it is not a respectable job or career or business to own so why do they think that transplanting it to Asia makes it respectable? And what do they tell their friends and family back home?

I think I may have read that you are originally from Australia, if I'm wrong sorry. Brothels and prostitution have been legal in NSW for about 10 years now and is not considered illegal by any means. To answer your question, the buyers of bars here are hardly transplanting anything, they buy the bars off other Thais willing to make a killing off the key money they get. Buying existing businesses is hardly "transplanting".

By the way where is these new bars on your island that have sprung up you are talking about? I might be going down south and wouldn't mind checking them out, cheers.

Prostitution is also legal in the US in Nevada. I think the point the poster is trying to make is the women involved in prostitution in Thailand are exploited and the women involved in prostitution in the US and Australia are not exploited because there are other employment opportunities available to them to make $100,000 per year with a grade school education.

I know a few prostitutes from Australia and a few from the US and they are not the brightest ladies on the planet. I have not been able to figure out what jobs they would do beyond serving a hamburger and a beer. Of course there are exceptions to this but I have not met them.

But there is a big difference between prostitution in Western countries and Thailand.

Most of the prostitutes in Thailand want to get married and out of the business. They want to be normal members of society and not involved in the bar or club business. Not all but most.

This is not true in the West. In the West despite the movie “Pretty lady” the girls want to make money, money and more money. Money is the end game.

[Lacoste]

Most of the prostitutes in Thailand want to get married and out of the business. They want to be normal members of society and not involved in the bar or club business. Not all but most.

I don't think many Thai men are going to marry them.

[TokyoT]

So what’s worse?

Farang Pimp Bar Owners

Or

Thai men who frequent Thai Ladies of the Night, but would never dream of marring one

[Heng]

Old Farang guys who came over here and met a bar girl and married her and took her out of the bar business, bought her a house and set her up in business so she would never have to be a bar worker again.

IMO it's more often habits like gambling, drinking, and not being content with one's current level of wealth (and creating debts in the process) that leads to prostitution. That's why there are so many cases (at least that I have seen) of bar girls/boys selling out whatever property (usually car, motorcycle, and/or home) has been given to them -by all sponsors... not just falangs-, typically at a loss (but they don't seem to care as long as they are paid in cash) and then going back to the game. The big question is why having a home + automobile completely paid for is not enough to be content? There's plenty of other work out there, even without an M6 certification. It's not like it'd have to pay much as these folks are typically debt free after "rescue."

[Ling Kae]

Most of the prostitutes in Thailand want to get married and out of the business. They want to be normal members of society and not involved in the bar or club business. Not all but most.

I don't think many Thai men are going to marry them.

No they probably won't but many a farang would and have. I have known dozens of women who have married the man of their dreams and moved abroad and are very happy in their new environment with their new lives.

[kerryk]

Most of the prostitutes in Thailand want to get married and out of the business. They want to be normal members of society and not involved in the bar or club business. Not all but most.

I don't think many Thai men are going to marry them.

No, you are wrong. Thai men are lining up to marry them. The difference is Thai men want them to stay in the bar business whereas Farang men want the to get out of the business.

[Lacoste]

Most of the prostitutes in Thailand want to get married and out of the business. They want to be normal members of society and not involved in the bar or club business. Not all but most.

I don't think many Thai men are going to marry them.

No, you are wrong. Thai men are lining up to marry them. The difference is Thai men want them to stay in the bar business whereas Farang men want the to get out of the business.

Your realy talking about the lowest echelon of Thai society.

[opothai]

most entertaing thread for a long time,

some very blinkered views and some very honest and candid views.

pattaya is a money go round and it will not change any time soon, love it or hate it pattaya is a very colourfull place with something for every one.

as for pimping for profit, the lads that i know who own girly bars do not make enough to live properly from the bar therefor without the bar fines i would hazzard a guess a big percentage of bars would not exist, and that would lead the girls to working the streets [ beach road etc ]

then that would create a whole new set of problems problems.

so as the place works imho i'd let it stay the way it is.

[kerryk]

Most of the prostitutes in Thailand want to get married and out of the business. They want to be normal members of society and not involved in the bar or club business. Not all but most.

I don't think many Thai men are going to marry them.

No, you are wrong. Thai men are lining up to marry them. The difference is Thai men want them to stay in the bar business whereas Farang men want the to get out of the business.

Your realy talking about the lowest echelon of Thai society.

Does that make them less important? If you prick them do they not bleed? Were you expecting bar girls to be hi so? What's your point?

[Lacoste]

Most of the prostitutes in Thailand want to get married and out of the business. They want to be normal members of society and not involved in the bar or club business. Not all but most.

I don't think many Thai men are going to marry them.

No, you are wrong. Thai men are lining up to marry them. The difference is Thai men want them to stay in the bar business whereas Farang men want the to get out of the business.

Your realy talking about the lowest echelon of Thai society.

Does that make them less important? If you prick them do they not bleed? Were you expecting bar girls to be hi so? What's your point?

You said, 'Most of the prostitutes in Thailand want to get married and out of the business', So my point is that they are not likely to achieve this dream if they get married to a person of the same rank and file as themselves, therfore if they are to realise there dream they are not realy free to leave the bar as this is the most likely place they will hook a nieve foreigner who will 'save them'.

[davethailand]

Is that what you look for then? "Full English Breakfasts?"

I've never been to Crazy Daves in my life.

This thread reminds me of a few years ago on this forum, well done to the Mods for letting this thread run.

I've never been to Crazy Daves in my life.

Are you that Bob charachter?

Yeeeehhhhhhhhhhh

[kerryk]

Most of the prostitutes in Thailand want to get married and out of the business. They want to be normal members of society and not involved in the bar or club business. Not all but most.

I don't think many Thai men are going to marry them.

No, you are wrong. Thai men are lining up to marry them. The difference is Thai men want them to stay in the bar business whereas Farang men want the to get out of the business.

Your realy talking about the lowest echelon of Thai society.

Does that make them less important? If you prick them do they not bleed? Were you expecting bar girls to be hi so? What's your point?

You said, 'Most of the prostitutes in Thailand want to get married and out of the business', So my point is that they are not likely to achieve this dream if they get married to a person of the same rank and file as themselves, therfore if they are to realise there dream they are not realy free to leave the bar as this is the most likely place they will hook a nieve foreigner who will 'save them'.

Absolutely right. Bar girls marry Thai men as a last resort.

The typical bar girl is not a virgin when she starts; auctioned off to the highest bidder.

She is an abused young woman who has two children and a Thai husband that beat her and then deserted her.

[Maigo6]

Are you that Bob charachter?

Yeeeehhhhhhhhhhh

No, that Bob character is Nervous Dave from The Nervous Wreck Bar, Soi Yamoto.

[Sing_Sling]

Well, enough about Pattaya. You want to flame Pattaya do so in the Pattaya forum and we'll clean up the bloodbath later

Regardless, the state of Pattayas beaches or air isn't really the issue here and neither is Pattaya the only place you will find farangs running bars that offer women.

I think the point about Pattaya was made in relation to a drop in the sex industry spelling the end of the place.

As horrid as it may be today (sorry, Pattayans - Dave, making a comment about Pattaya is not automatically insulting you) it used to be the quickest escape for Thais from Bangkok, with family, to the beach. And it would revert to the same again after initial hardships.

Sure Sing, the Thais are going to stay at the Marriott in the same numbers as Farang. The Thais are going to pay 150 baht for a beer, sure. The Thais are going to spend an average of 3000 baht a day like the Farangs, sure.

You should see the look on my woman’s face when I order a lobster dinner and a Guinness.

Well, if you believe that economics would allow you to keep prices the way they are then you would probably go broke . . .

Have a look at how Subic Bay regenerated after 100 years of US occupation/support . . . Not all is doom and gloom when you take away the hookers and sleazy pubs. Well, not for normal people . . .

Oh, I forgot to add your condescending: sure . . .

You are way off, mate.

[stumonster]

in the "western" world is there a concept like a "bar fine" ?

if not , how can you take a "western" concept such as "pimping" and attempt to apply it to a culture here ? I think you chose the word "pimp" for its emotional value because maybe "facilitator" does not evoke the same connatations . wishing to be provocative I would think.

[Lacoste]

\if not , how can you take a "western" concept such as "pimping" and attempt to apply it to a culture here ?

Since when has pimping been a western concept? Ok so the word is most likely derived from 16th century French but i think you may find the concept was originaly Chinese, last time i checked the map China was in the East, not the West.

[stumonster]

\if not , how can you take a "western" concept such as "pimping" and attempt to apply it to a culture here ?

Since when has pimping been a western concept? Ok so the word is most likely derived from 16th century French but i think you may find the concept was originaly Chinese, last time i checked the map China was in the East, not the West.

from the original post I would say he was referring to the western concept and understanding of "pimp" , but maybe I was incorrect , maybe it was the chinese.

[davethailand]

Are you that Bob charachter?

Yeeeehhhhhhhhhhh

No, that Bob character is Nervous Dave from The Nervous Wreck Bar, Soi Yamoto.

I know, i was extracting the urine.