How long does it take to get citizenship these days if married to a Thai?

[Maestro]

1992 Nationality Act, naturalization as a Thai citizen requires five years of residence in Thailand, as well as proof of a certain minimum income and renunciation of one's previous citizenship. The law is there, last part is just not enforced.

I should be grateful if you kindly indicated the number of the section of the Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1965) with amendments until B.E. 2555 (2012) to which you are referring with your statement that naturalisation as a Thai citizen requires renunciation of one's previous citizenship.

Logically, it would have to be one of the sections under Chapter 1 "Acquisition of Thai Nationality", sections 7–12, but any section confirming your statement will do. The part about five years of residence is in Section 10, but nobody has disputed this particular requirement.

Regarding the "1992 Nationality Act", the Nationality Act (No.2) B.E. 2535 (1992) amended the Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1965) and I attach it for reference. These amendments are already reflected in the updated version of the Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1992) to which I have given a link above.

Thailand Nationality Act 2-2535 (1992) - English.pdf

[Maestro]

1992 Nationality Act, naturalization as a Thai citizen requires five years of residence in Thailand, as well as proof of a certain minimum income and renunciation of one's previous citizenship. The law is there, last part is just not enforced.

The latest version of the law requires a statement of intention, but no follow through.

When my wife applied in 2008, not even that was required.

It was not raised at our interview in November last year. And they know that I am a dual national.

I can't find the requirement for a statement of intention in the Nationality Act updated until 2012. I have seen posts mentioning that such statement was asked of applicants for naturalisation, but have found no legal source, ie Ministerial Regulation based on the Nationality Act, for it. Hopefully, mike324 can find the source, if any there be.

[mike324]

1992 Nationality Act, naturalization as a Thai citizen requires five years of residence in Thailand, as well as proof of a certain minimum income and renunciation of one's previous citizenship. The law is there, last part is just not enforced.

I should be grateful if you kindly indicated the number of the section of the Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1965) with amendments until B.E. 2555 (2012) to which you are referring with your statement that naturalisation as a Thai citizen requires renunciation of one's previous citizenship.

Logically, it would have to be one of the sections under Chapter 1 "Acquisition of Thai Nationality", sections 7–12, but any section confirming your statement will do. The part about five years of residence is in Section 10, but nobody has disputed this particular requirement.

Regarding the "1992 Nationality Act", the Nationality Act (No.2) B.E. 2535 (1992) amended the Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1965) and I attach it for reference. These amendments are already reflected in the updated version of the Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1992) to which I have given a link above.

Thailand Nationality Act 2-2535 (1992) - English.pdf

You are correct, it does not say you need to give up your citizenship prior to obtaining a Thai citizenship, but it does say you will lose your Thai citizenship if you hold another citizenship. I'm guessing this means they forbid you to have dual citizenship. Again I'm no lawyer, just interpreting this how a normal person would.

Chapter 2 "Loss of Thai Nationality"

Section 19 - (2) "There is evidence to show he still makes use of his former nationality"

Section 21 - Also eludes to if you obtain an alien registration, you will lose your Thai nationality.

[Maestro]

You are correct, it does not say you need to give up your citizenship prior to obtaining a Thai citizenship, but it does say you will lose your Thai citizenship if you hold another citizenship. I'm guessing this means they forbid you to have dual citizenship. Again I'm no lawyer, just interpreting this how a normal person would.

Chapter 2 "Loss of Thai Nationality"

Section 19 - (2) "There is evidence to show he still makes use of his former nationality"

Section 21 - Also eludes to if you obtain an alien registration, you will lose your Thai nationality.

Let us look at Section 19 in its entirety, so that your selective quotation from it may make some sense (higlighting in bold blue is mine):

Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who

acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that:

(1) The naturalization was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement

false in material particular;

(2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;

(3) He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting the interests of

the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;

(4) He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals;

(5) He has resided abroad without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five

years;

(6) He still retains the nationality of the country at war with Thailand.

The revocation of Thai nationality under this Section may extend to children of a

person whose Thai nationality is revoked, in case such children are not sui juris and acquire

Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two. The Minister shall, after the order for

revocation of Thai nationality has been given, submit the matter to the King.

Nowhere does this section say that a foreigner cannot gain Thai nationality unless he renounces his former nationality. On the contrary, I take Section 19 as a confirmation that dual nationality is allowed, as otherwise Section 19(2) would not have needed to be included in the Nationality Act.

What Section 19 says is that if after I acquired Thai nationality by naturalisation it appears that there is evidence to show that I continue to use my previous nationality, the Minister of Interior has the power to revoke my Thai nationality. The most likely evidence of my use of my previous nationality would probably be my use of my other nationality's passport to enter and leave Thailand. Other possible evidence could be to use it in Thailand to open a bank account, to buy a condominium, to show it when checked by the police, etc. Even if I were sufficiently mentally handicapped to do any of this, somebody would have to report it to the Minister of Interior (if anybody, the Immigration Bureau might do it), and subsequently the Minister of Interior would have to decide to revoke my Thai nationality. All of this does not signify a requirement to renounce my previous nationality in order to acquire Thai nationality by naturalisation.

[paz]

What Section 19 says is that if after you acquired Thai nationality by naturalisation it appears that there is evidence to show that I continue to use my previous nationality, the Minister of Interior has the power to revoke my Thai nationality. The most likely evidence of my use of my previous nationality would probably be my use of my other nationality's passport to enter and leave Thailand. Other possible evidence could be to use it in Thailand to open a bank account, to buy a condominium, to show it when checked by the police, etc. Even if I were sufficiently mentally handicapped to do any of this, somebody would have to report it to the Minister of Interior (if anybody, the Immigration Bureau might do it), and subsequently the Minister of Interior would have to decide to revoke my Thai nationality. All of this does not signify a requirement to renounce my previous nationality in order to acquire Thai nationality by naturalisation.

I agree and further to this, revocation of naturalisation would be a significant act, to be published on the Royal Gazette, but I've never heard of such a precedent. I can imagine the Minister would do that only for serious criminal cases, and let me add, political reasons.

[Maestro]

You are probably right, paz. If anybody who acquired his Thai nationality for the reason of being married to a Thai national has had his Thai nationality revoked, I would like to see a copy of that revocation decision.

This topic really is about how long it takes to acquire Thai citizenship for a foreigner married to a Thai national, but the subject of dual nationality of such type of foreigner is obviously of great interest to many, for which reason I agree that it should be allowed to run in this topic.

[Time Traveller]

The only big difference I can see is that you can own land/houses and business all in your own name. Immigration wise: you don't need to renew your PR visa every year. Although Thailand does not allow dual citizenship, they don't check and they do not care.

Like the law about 90 day reporting by aliens that they didn't care about. Until they do.

In practice, the only chance likely of being discovered is if you are involved in a criminal or other incident in Thailand and try to get consular assistance from your other country.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Time Traveller

[Badbanker]

I do remember back in the late 80's or early 90's, that certain nationalistic members of parliament, where considering a very specific 1 nationality clause, that would require ALL Thai nationals to only have one nationality and be forced to formally give up any other nationality.

This was all fine till one of the members said his daughter had fought for and acquired US nationality and she had no intention of giving it up! A then retired Army General also piped up that his son had British nationality which he also had no intention of giving up.

The whole 1 nationality thing was then quietly scrapped, along with laws on bigamy and land taxes!

[samran]

I do remember back in the late 80's or early 90's, that certain nationalistic members of parliament, where considering a very specific 1 nationality clause, that would require ALL Thai nationals to only have one nationality and be forced to formally give up any other nationality.

This was all fine till one of the members said his daughter had fought for and acquired US nationality and she had no intention of giving it up! A then retired Army General also piped up that his son had British nationality which he also had no intention of giving up.

The whole 1 nationality thing was then quietly scrapped, along with laws on bigamy and land taxes!

There was about a 2 week gap between the 1992 nationality act version 2 and version 3. The former had specific language banning dual citizenship. Two weeks later parliament had in record time passed an amendment without the offending text! Amazing!!!

More seriously though, the debate about dual citizenship needs to be viewed in the context of version 2 and the evolution to version three.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Maestro
Added links to the two versions given in the post.

[ubonjoe]

A troll post and replies to it has been removed.

[Arkady]

Those with an interest in applying for Thai nationality should read this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/121353-story-of-my-thai-citizenship-application/. I think you will find all the questions raised here answered somewhere in that thread.

Just a few of the key questions raised briefly.

I see some comments about immigration officers involved in the process. Immigration is involved with applications for PR but has nothing to do applications for nationality. It is all Special Branch and the Interior Ministry.

Re male applicant based on marriage to a Thai. Since this became possible in 2008 there seems to be no difference in the treatment of these applicants vs applicants with PR. All are qualified according to the law.

For those who say you must have paid a lot of tax. In the MOI interview they have been known to be impressed by applicants who have paid a lot of tax but there is no evidence to suggest it makes a difference to how long it takes. What clearly makes a difference is having high level connections and those earning large salaries are more likely to have good connections. Applicants with Thai wives and earning the minimum B40k are being processed and many have got to interview stage taking about the same time as anyone else. I haven't personally come across anyone who had got to ID card stage on the basis of a Thai wife but I am pretty sure there are some by now.

Revocation. A British guy who was Thai on the basis of being born in the Kingdom to alien parents (before 1972) got his nationality revoked for entering Thailand on his British passport in 2004 and there are some more recent cases of Asian nationals but they didn't specify what the evidence was. All are people who got Thai nationality through being born in Thailand. There are no known cases of naturalised Thais losing their Thai nationality over this to date.

How long does it take? Recently it seems to have been taking about 3 years to get to MOI interview stage on average and a total of about 5-7 years average but some much less and some over 10 years. Take a look in the thread. The new minister seems to be shaking things up and says 5-7 years is too long to make people wait.

[Arkady]

I do remember back in the late 80's or early 90's, that certain nationalistic members of parliament, where considering a very specific 1 nationality clause, that would require ALL Thai nationals to only have one nationality and be forced to formally give up any other nationality.

This was all fine till one of the members said his daughter had fought for and acquired US nationality and she had no intention of giving it up! A then retired Army General also piped up that his son had British nationality which he also had no intention of giving up.

The whole 1 nationality thing was then quietly scrapped, along with laws on bigamy and land taxes!

Interesting. I don't recall those debates in the NLA but there were even more important people than that who would have been inconvenienced, if the 1992 amendment had not been srapped 3 weeks later, as Samran mentioned. The 1992 amendment was part of Anand Panyarachun's reforms under military appointed govt. His govt wanted fairness for children of Thai women and foreign fathers who were not entitled to Thai nationality previously. The conservatives wanted them to give up foreign nationality at age 20 or have their Thai nationality automatically revoked and won the day for precisely 3 weeks before the backlash hit.

Incidentally we could use some of Anand's reforming spirit now.