Lawyers want DNA tested by UK police

[Artisi]

Mr. Kent it is better to keep silent. You have already lost your face.

Correct, better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[Artisi]

That would be the most Thai answer. The British answer will be

on a hire motorbike riding to Sairee Beach

More seriously though there might be enough pressure back home with an election for somebody to vacation in Koh Tao and pick up something that the family have handled. It wouldn't be admissible but would be enough to form the basis of political pressure to do things properly. It might be that the government is unwilling to exercise any pressure without the knowledge that they are right.

Breaking the Thai law himself by NOT wearing a helmet. There is also a helmet law in the UK. Stupid man.

Looks like a B200 fine there plus the farang factor, lets call it a round B500.

You're forgetting the B5,000 for the scratch on the mirror!

No No, that's a separate issue and not a police function - unless they are needed to ensure it is collected.

[ScotBkk]

Perhaps they raped her, but did not kill her. That was someone else. Because the brutality of her wounds were of real animal like rage. Like someone who was very angry perhaps with the two young lads. Shise, i hated writing that. Like she doesn't exist anymore as a person, just as a victim. She still is a person in my mind,

I concur. I've met a lot of young women like Hannah, through the course of a work-exchange program I do in northernmost Thailand. Of the thousand or so farang backpackers I've met and worked with in the past 10 years, not one has been problematic. All have been cheerful and eager to meet this crazy world with alacrity.

However, since we're discussing a grizzly double murder, there's a hypothetical I want to mention: One thing that can set a man in to a rage is get his dick bit. Several prior posts have mentioned the believable possibility that date-rape drugs were/are commonly used at AC bar by the Thais who run the place and possibly facilitated by Sean (that could be a reason he's incognito). Now imagine they slipped Hannah a mickey and get her to go out to the beach in the wee hours (those two things constitute 90% of a rape scenario). While one or more guys are forcing themselves on her (and she sees David getting killed) it's not outlandish to surmise she may have put teeth in an offending member if it was within biting range. If that (along with some succint words) doesn't send a drug/alcohol fueled sex-crazed guy in to a rage, I don't know what will. Also, those suspects (connected to AC bar) are rich Thais who are used to getting their way with everyone, particularly cute drunk farang chicks, who may also have inadvertedly ingested a date-rape drug. I mention that possible scenario only because I (like many others) want the real culprits to be arrested and tried. The investigating cops don't appear to want to think about any of what I just mentioned, because it doesn't sinc with their frame-up of the Burmese guys. Also, I've heard nothing about whether cops checked bodies of those who should be suspects, via body searches (including privates) and blood tests. ....just another of the dozens of basic investigative things the cops appear to have NOT done.

Me thinks we have a budding crime novelist in our midst .........

[belg]

they will have to speed up the planned suicide in the jail then, followed by a quick cremation making indentification, well, impossible

[Baerboxer]

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

Exactly as this is what it all boils down to.

Many posters are calling for outside agencies involvement without considering they have no jurisdiction and can only operate if invited to do so and with all that's being going on it's probably the last thing the BIB want.

Defence lawyers could perhaps petition a court for independent testing and even if it was granted it would likely be blocked by the junta and martial law is still in existence too.

Sorry, I don't think that is totally accurate.

Myanmar lawyers can come here and take their DNA any time they want. They have the jurisdiction in Thailand, as they are the Myanmar Embassy lawyers. So they almost certainly are licensed to practice in this kingdom.

They are completly within their rights to demand the ability to collect DNA from their clients which will be the main basis for their defence.

Neither the Junta nor the BIB have any right to block it. These are NOT Thai nationals..... They are Myanmar nationals.

They have rights under international law.

I also can not see the UK refusing to cooperate with this request... It is totally rational, logical and a refusal would create a massive stink.... That will never be allowed to happen..... Trust me on that, I lived there foe 45 years.

I bet the UK police are itching to get their hands on those lads' samples.

Having lived in the UK for 45 years it's surprising you think there is a UK police.

Reality, which force would have jurisdiction? The Met are still carrying out the re-opened case of Madeline McCann. Despite their ego, they aren't the national (or superior) police force in the UK.

So maybe a good solution would be for the defense lawyers to collect DNA samples which could be tested by an independent lab, perhaps Leicester University, where Dr. Jefferries pioneered DNA?

This assumes that DNA samples were removed from the victim's body. British authorities have yet to confirm that is the case, and if so by whom, and where they are held.

If samples are available in the UK, and independent test by a university lab at the request of the Burmese government would produce at result which would stand up anywhere.

[johnlandy]

Well it's long over due, lets hope the U.K reciprocate.

I think the word 'reciprocate' is wrong. Perhaps that the UK authorites agree AND FOR MY MONEY they will likely readily grab the opportunity.

The British police are not the ones who face the resulting embarrassment here. No prizes for guessing who will though

[razer]

I am curious if the police in the UK have interviewed the other people associated with this case who are now back in he UK.

[chooka]

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

Exactly as this is what it all boils down to.

Many posters are calling for outside agencies involvement without considering they have no jurisdiction and can only operate if invited to do so and with all that's being going on it's probably the last thing the BIB want.

Defence lawyers could perhaps petition a court for independent testing and even if it was granted it would likely be blocked by the junta and martial law is still in existence too.

That's the biggest problem the general/P.M still has the country locked down in Martial Law and they are untouchable. Any outside requests have no bearing whilst martial law exists.

[greenchair]

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

Would be interesting if they allowed the Brits to investigate and they then asked if they could DNA test 'you know who. '

Now that would be interesting.

YEees ,that certainly would be interesting.

Hmmmm what will Tomorrow bring.

[Jim walker]

The Thai soldier generals will have to take this case over personally to oversee honest Thai justice is done for the two murderers in prison at the moment, a second beating for a second confession might be enough to convince the rest of the world that they are guilty.

[Runamile]

I'm sure we want to be hopeful, but aren't the samples/evidence, likely, at this stage, to have been so corrupted that, with the best will in the world, any third party is unlikely to be able to make much sense of them?

[whitfield]

3 Points

Five years ago I tried unsuccessfully to have my son DNA tested. I was told Thailand didn't have the facility and that I must use a foreign agency. They've obviously come on a bit since then.

If we're checking airport CCTV then don't forget the Nok Air 07.35 flight from Chumphon getting to DM at 08.45. No bags and a motorbike and he could be anywhere in BKK by 09.45.

UK Police may not be able to pin our friend in BKK, especially if he can't be forced to give a DNA sample, but they sure as hell can clear the Burmese boys.

[tromboneman]

If these two end up "suicide" that's going to be the end of this. Better whoever mentioned that in the first place kept his mouth shut.

[OPG]

"Meanwhile, tourists continue to flock to Koh Tao under the watchful eye of tourist police and volunteers. The number of tourists is not high but it is still the low season, with strong ocean currents and monsoon rains."

Well, I'm happy they were able to give us an update on tourism and the weather report on KT; I was really beginning to worry that they may starve on the island without any business. TOTALLY RIDICULOUS to give updates on tourism and the weather conditions in the same statement on the murders.

Edited October 12, 2014 by OPG

[sjjmmi]

Re post #48: There are plenty of persons on here already with whom you can debate the evidence. In Thailand, a judge or judge panel can throw out all the evidence and still make a guilty or not guilty determination.

And the internet and the international media can make sure that everybody in the world knows.

If this country allows that (and biased corrupted police investigations)

they absolutely deserve to be in the pillory

A judge in any country can disallow evidence if he doubts its authenticity or that it was improperly obtained.

But this is Thailand . . . . LOL . . So does not count.

[richusa]

Anything in common?

[chooka]

The Thai soldier generals will have to take this case over personally to oversee honest Thai justice is done for the two murderers in prison at the moment, a second beating for a second confession might be enough to convince the rest of the world that they are guilty.

Have they been found guilty already? Last I read they hadn't been to trial and we're only the accused. Do you have a link where they were convicted and deemed murders?

[chooka]

The Thai soldier generals will have to take this case over personally to oversee honest Thai justice is done for the two murderers in prison at the moment, a second beating for a second confession might be enough to convince the rest of the world that they are guilty.

Have they been found guilty already? Last I read they hadn't been to trial and we're only the accused. Do you have a link where they were convicted and deemed murders?

[chooka]

The Thai soldier generals will have to take this case over personally to oversee honest Thai justice is done for the two murderers in prison at the moment, a second beating for a second confession might be enough to convince the rest of the world that they are guilty.

Have they been found guilty already? Last I read they hadn't been to trial and we're only the accused. Do you have a link where they were convicted and deemed murders?

[DennisF]

Perhaps they raped her, but did not kill her. That was someone else. Because the brutality of her wounds were of real animal like rage. Like someone who was very angry perhaps with the two young lads. Shise, i hated writing that. Like she doesn't exist anymore as a person, just as a victim. She still is a person in my mind,

I concur. I've met a lot of young women like Hannah, through the course of a work-exchange program I do in northernmost Thailand. Of the thousand or so farang backpackers I've met and worked with in the past 10 years, not one has been problematic. All have been cheerful and eager to meet this crazy world with alacrity.

However, since we're discussing a grizzly double murder, there's a hypothetical I want to mention: One thing that can set a man in to a rage is get his dick bit. Several prior posts have mentioned the believable possibility that date-rape drugs were/are commonly used at AC bar by the Thais who run the place and possibly facilitated by Sean (that could be a reason he's incognito). Now imagine they slipped Hannah a mickey and get her to go out to the beach in the wee hours (those two things constitute 90% of a rape scenario). While one or more guys are forcing themselves on her (and she sees David getting killed) it's not outlandish to surmise she may have put teeth in an offending member if it was within biting range. If that (along with some succint words) doesn't send a drug/alcohol fueled sex-crazed guy in to a rage, I don't know what will. Also, those suspects (connected to AC bar) are rich Thais who are used to getting their way with everyone, particularly cute drunk farang chicks, who may also have inadvertedly ingested a date-rape drug. I mention that possible scenario only because I (like many others) want the real culprits to be arrested and tried. The investigating cops don't appear to want to think about any of what I just mentioned, because it doesn't sinc with their frame-up of the Burmese guys. Also, I've heard nothing about whether cops checked bodies of those who should be suspects, via body searches (including privates) and blood tests. ....just another of the dozens of basic investigative things the cops appear to have NOT done.

Me thinks we have a budding crime novelist in our midst .........

Sounds like an adult movie writer. Sick.

[NativeSon360]

What is it, in the mentality of a bloke to first "confess" to committing a capital crime, then part-take in a ("soap opera") dramatic public display, of re-enacting the crime @ the crime scene?

[bander]

What took them so long?

I suspect the RTP have been manipulating DNA evidence from the beginning,

[outsider]

A big loss of face for the BiB... and rightly so. Idiots.

[JLCrab]

Re post #48: There are plenty of persons on here already with whom you can debate the evidence. In Thailand, a judge or judge panel can throw out all the evidence and still make a guilty or not guilty determination.

And the internet and the international media can make sure that everybody in the world knows.

If this country allows that (and biased corrupted police investigations)

they absolutely deserve to be in the pillory

A judge in any country can disallow evidence if he doubts its authenticity or that it was improperly obtained.

But this is Thailand . . . . LOL . . So does not count.

Look a few notches above. And the internet and the international media can make sure that everybody in the world knows. Most people in the world probably couldn't point out Thailand on a map.

Edited October 12, 2014 by JLCrab

[sambum]

The Thai soldier generals will have to take this case over personally to oversee honest Thai justice is done for the two murderers in prison at the moment, a second beating for a second confession might be enough to convince the rest of the world that they are guilty.

Have they been found guilty already? Last I read they hadn't been to trial and we're only the accused. Do you have a link where they were convicted and deemed murders?

My goodness, I'm sure Jim walker gets the point - no need to ask 3 times!

[macca3248]

" About bloody time "

[motlau]

Mark Kent appears shameful .,he doesn't seem to care that two of his taxpaying Nationals have been slaughtered and seems supine whilst a mockery of an investigation continues--is his only purpose to smooth trade deals and never be proactive on behalf of British Nationals

[joebrown]

The DNA trail as it stands has no provenance thanks to the RTP handling of the investigation. Anything that the RTP claim as being DNA from either victim or suspect is totally unverifiable as such.

As far as I am aware, there's been no confirmation if the UK authorities were given permission to take their own DNA samples from the deceased after their bodies were repatriated. I would rather hope they did and kept it quiet out of respect for the victims and their families, unlike the very public and disgusting media circus that prevailed over here. Otherwise, the whole premise of having a 'proper' DNA test and analysis is a moot point and the UK authorities won't waste their time. The results will only confirm the questions that are already being asked rather than answering any of them.

If this happens, the case will be passed with a lot of fanfare to whatever passes for a 'special investigation' unit in Bangkok only to be lost in a bureaucratic paper shuffle. This will go on for as long as it can be financed by tourist dollars being spent in certain resorts on a certain island.

If I remember correctly I read that there will be an inquest for Hannah in January 2015. I'm not sure about David as he was a resident of Jersey. I believe that because Hannah's death occurred outside the juristiction of UK law, an autopsy had to be carried out immediately upon her repatriation, before permission for her funeral could be given by the UK coroner/police. If this is so, then I would hope with the publicity surrounding the horrific murders, that DNA samples would have been obtained as a matter of course. I did say "I would hope"

[Baerboxer]

I am curious if the police in the UK have interviewed the other people associated with this case who are now back in he UK.

The UK does not have a national police force, or paramilitaries like the French Gendamerie and Italian Caribineri,

So, which force would do this?

None would unless someone made a complaint and initiated an inquiry. The parents or families of the deceased, the friends of the deceased have all remained quite and not been drawn into commenting or make media announcements. That is their prerogative.

Sean McAnna has simply vanished into thin air and made no more comments or accusations on social media.

Sadly, it seems to have been left to the RTP who have jurisdiction over where the crime was committed.

[HerbalEd]

Hopefully any independent analysis of the DNA will be able to determine what DNA actually was taken from the victims body.