War against Isis: US strategy in tatters as militants march on

[Daffy D]

Yet another miserable chapter in the shamefully failed presidency of Barack Obama who will go down in history as the worst ,most inefficient and ineffectual United States president.

The blame rests with the shamefully previous precedency, that for no good reason, removed Saddam Hussein and upset the balance of power in the area.

Compared to what is happening now and the lives destroyed because of his removal make his regime look pretty tame.

[pitrevie]

Yet another miserable chapter in the shamefully failed presidency of Barack Obama who will go down in history as the worst ,most inefficient and ineffectual United States president.

Yep and George did such a good job turning Iraq from a problem into a disaster. Much like the economy he inherited from Clinton.

Bush sucked but Obama sucks even more. It would be great if the US could ever elect a President based on their merits and not on their ability to be least disliked!!!

Yep lets look how we got there, the USA gets attacked by a group of young men mostly if not all who were from Saudi Arabia. The mastermind for the attack another Saudi national was based in Afghanistan. So what was the response of Bush, he attacks Iraq. Its lucky for us that Bush wasn't President when Pearl Harbour was attacked otherwise he might have ordered a retaliatory Doolittle strike against Bangkok.

Oh I forgot, Iraq had WMD and thus far they haven't found a peashooter. In fact Saddam Hussein confessed to his American interrogator that, at that stage he had nothing, it was all bluster for the Iranian's benefit. Can you imagine the reaction on the right if that had been a democrat who had made that blunder, the calls for impeachment would not have stopped.

Then Cheney tries to blame Obama for the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq when it was Bush and Cheney who negotiated and signed the agreement for the withdrawal of American troops. Leaving several thousand dead American and Allied servicemen, perhaps now is the time to bring up the four dead in Benghazi. Now more Americans are going to die along with others as we continue to pay for that blunder not only in lives but in the billions that it is costing our economies or should that be trillions?

What did Bush do about the instigator of the 9/11 attacks, he completely forgot about him for 8 years and it took the useless Obama some 18 months to bring him to book.

However not content with that mess, having inherited a healthy economic situation from Clinton, Bush then manages to contrive economic meltdown by the time he leaves office plunging the western economies into one of the biggest slumps since the thirties and which we are still trying to climb out of.

Obama would have very long way to go and were he to remain in office for another 8 years there is no way he would come close to matching the incompetence or the cost of the Bush presidency.

[F430murci]

No one around here should get to comfy or smug.

ISIS has just recently targeted India and the Singapore Straits Times reports ISIS is reviving the notion of an Islamic caliphate in SE Asia, the Daulah Islamiah Nusantara.

The Caliphate initially focuses on Malaysia, Singapore, southern Thailand, Indonesia, southern Philippines. Recall al Qaeda had the same idea that eventually was demolished but only after bombing deaths in the region, Bali most prominently.

ISIS already has members from Cambodia and Malaysia. Indonesia last year outlawed ISIS there.

Jihadists planning regional Islamic caliphate in the Far East

Besides the four new groups, police are also monitoring a terror organization in Sabah [state of Malaysia] called Darul Islam Sabah. The plan for a regional Islamic caliphate Daulah Islamiah Nusantara was also confirmed in August by Ayob Khan Mydin Pitchay, the Malaysian counter-terrorism official whose investigations led to the arrest of the 19 jihadists in Malaysia. Ayob Khan confirmed that the militants had visions of establishing a hardline Southeast Asian caliphate spanning Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, the Philippines and Singapore, and planned to travel to Syria to learn from the Islamic State.

http://patriotsbillboard.org/four-new-jihadist-groups-planning-islamic-caliphate-malaysia-indonesia-singapore-thailand-southern-philippines/

I think based on the nature of ISIS it is probably a matter of time before they target and attempt to integrate with PULNO in the south of Thailand. So far, Pulno has remained focused on its cause of returning to Malaysia, however, who knows how they might feel once offered submission to an ISIS Caliphate that includes Malaysia and other parts of SE Asia.

No one is getting comfy or smug because Obama is in charge.

[F430murci]

Yet another miserable chapter in the shamefully failed presidency of Barack Obama who will go down in history as the worst ,most inefficient and ineffectual United States president.

The blame rests with the shamefully previous precedency, that for no good reason, removed Saddam Hussein and upset the balance of power in the area.

Compared to what is happening now and the lives destroyed because of his removal make his regime look pretty tame.

Prior to his removal, estimates as to the number of Iraqis killed by Saddam's regime vary from roughly a quarter to half a million,including 50,000 to 182,000 Kurds and 25,000 to 280,000 killed during the repression of the 1991 rebellion. Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.

[Publicus]

The architect of the present Iraq.

[Thorgal]

Everyone warned Obama that some boots on the ground - special forces - were needed to guide the air war, but he ignored it for political reasons. This was easily foreseen.

Reports today say there are between 1000 to 1300 U.S. CIA, Special Ops, Special Forces on the ground doing that and more. There are about 300 German KS Kommandos on the ground with them, and who knows how many others from which other countries.

How many U.S. SF do you want on the ground there, 15.000? 5000? 30.000?

I'd be concerned if it started getting toward 5000 although I could accept 5000 but under only very specific and clearly defined purposes and rules of engagement. I reject any time frames as a part of the engagement.

This despite Obama being elected and re-elected to end wars rather than to start or to continue them.

You need one peace-maker...

[Robby nz]

Yet another miserable chapter in the shamefully failed presidency of Barack Obama who will go down in history as the worst ,most inefficient and ineffectual United States president.

The blame rests with the shamefully previous precedency, that for no good reason, removed Saddam Hussein and upset the balance of power in the area.

Compared to what is happening now and the lives destroyed because of his removal make his regime look pretty tame.

Prior to his removal, estimates as to the number of Iraqis killed by Saddam's regime vary from roughly a quarter to half a million,including 50,000 to 182,000 Kurds and 25,000 to 280,000 killed during the repression of the 1991 rebellion. Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.

You might like to take a look at who assisted Saddam in the Iran Iraq war, sold him the weapons, fired the last shots in that war even, and at what.

[arjunadawn]

The problem of ISIS needs to be strongly led by those most affected, and that is not the US.

Personally, I am not interested in seeing videos of soldiers being beheaded or body bags. I am not too interested in seeing planes shot down either.

It's time for the countries in the region to get their back side in gear. They have plenty of people who like to fight, kill and bomb, perhaps they could provide some support.

..but the (Sunni) countries of the region support and arm ISIS.

The only ones against it are Iran, Syria and Iraq.

..and the last two are rather impotent at this point in time.

So ISIS advances...and the US bombings are a charade in my opinion.

They want ISIS to achieve certain facts on the ground and then they will deal with them...they are running dogs imo.

Your previous post was spot on as well; it is more sinister than it all appears. The sunni states see IS as a greater threat to shia than to themselves right now, and thus find themsevles on both sides of the issue- funding and objecting. The issue arose in the first instance because of an unprecendanted rebuke by america of all our regional allies and entered into direct talks with Iran alone. The consequences of US failure would be devastating for the questionable authority of the regional sunni regimes. Moreoever, America has repeatedly demonstrated over the past 6 years an uncanny ability to screw up every single thing it touches (or does it?). Thus the backpeddling arms smuggling from Libya thru turkey and into anti assad elements, and the creation of this modern hydra.

It is the case, for ISIS in Iraq, the greatest threat are kurds. Indeed, Kobani is a syrian kurdish stronghold, and posses the greatest local threat to ISIS (insofar as IS is interested in it AND it is really curious why they would be. Tactically it is no where near the most important next thing IS could focus on). Empowered syrian (and Turkish) Kurds pose the greatest (percieved) threat to Turkey. Turkey wont play unless it gets to set some rules, thus Kobani and the Syrian equivilent of the PKK will be destoryed on Turkey's border. ISIS is advancing within small arms fire of BIAP- Baghdad Inter Airport. The only resistence encountered has been shia militia, as the military has folded. Expect Iran to begin arming northern Iraqi Kurds to pressure ISIS from Mosul Erbil area again. (I also really expect Lebanonese militias to start appearing in this drama more forcefully as Iran desperately seeks to rebalance the equation. No doubt about this).

However, the Kobani kurds are toast. The only thing that could save them now is, ironically, Assad; I am convinnced the west has totally written the entire city off. Yes, the bombings are a charade buying the appearance of effort in order to serve Turkey its two wishes: Kobani falling and a Syrian swath of land as a buffer for training and refugees- doesnt matter if turkey assists then, their chief concern would have been eliminated- empowered syrian kurds inflaming turkish kurds toward automony again. (Has anyone noted the fact that the US and forces operate in the air battle space unhindered? Syria has a very sophisitcated ADS. Only be the tacit or express agreement not to hit Syrian targets would coalition aircraft not be "painted." The complexity of this debacle is stunning).

I have previously said that there are so many moving parts in this drama that it is impossible to actually envision an end and achieve it. It cannot be done because no one has that much control of the varioous players in this dogfight. But watch this: Every single action the Obama administration has ever had their finger on- every one related to these issues- has finally empowered radical islam. Every single one. In this instance the PR loss of Kobani will be a godsend to ISIS before it turns further on Baghdad and the shia issue. The air of divine mandate is a powerful narcotic for those IS would attract to its ranks.

The US strategy is in tatters becasue the US is in tatters.

(Lastly, I have little doubt US SpecOps are intermittantly on the ground in Syria). Just my thoughts.

The United States didn't win the Cold War in a couple of months or a couple of decades.

The Vietnam Conflict debacle had no significant impact on the outcome of the Cold War despite Moscow's support of the North and Ho Chi Minh. Neither did the Soviet Russian's debacle in Afghanistan determine the outcome of the Cold War either way.

Talk of the ME being sort of a 30 Years War is significant. I would encourage people to think more in those terms than in a swift, mission accomplished decisive series of unqualified or absolute victories.

The ME is of far greater significance than were Vietnam 1965-74 or Afghanistan 1981-89 and deeper besides.

So stay out of my foxhole please or I'd have to stop you getting me killed.

You'd fare well were I in your foxhole as I have many, many years of direct experience in this region. But to your point, you are correct. It will take quite a while and there seems to be little realization that this is a generational struggle.

My concern, more deeply, is that at the highest levels in the US the reality you point out is not appreciated. Moreover, I dont think one can be successful against any threat that they refuse to properly identify. Unless they can find a way to strip radical jihad from the islamic core, and address that threat thus, there will never be success. In some manner, like a gazzelle being separated from the pack then preyed upon, the current problem needs to be intelligently divorced from mainstream islam, islam made to define and defend itself as in the company of the modern world of peoples, and no quarter being given to jihadis running alone. Currently, there is too much silence, or passive support.

Much of what is currently happening in the region is directly instigated by desparately illegitimate sunni rulers (and theocratic shia). They most definitely are playing to the perinneal desire of islam for the "Return of the King [caliph]." The US will do no more than destroy what legitimacy remains of Her reputation in the region. Without a goal, there can be no success.

[arjunadawn]

Yet another miserable chapter in the shamefully failed presidency of Barack Obama who will go down in history as the worst ,most inefficient and ineffectual United States president.

The blame rests with the shamefully previous precedency, that for no good reason, removed Saddam Hussein and upset the balance of power in the area.

Compared to what is happening now and the lives destroyed because of his removal make his regime look pretty tame.

Prior to his removal, estimates as to the number of Iraqis killed by Saddam's regime vary from roughly a quarter to half a million,including 50,000 to 182,000 Kurds and 25,000 to 280,000 killed during the repression of the 1991 rebellion. Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.

In 2003 I visited one of the palaces where Saddam's sons comitted some horrific acts. It wasn't the fanciest palace but it was only up the street from the main one that would be the core of the Green Zone. There were lion cages and hotubs around the perimter. Odd, huh? Well, these sick f7^ks would send their henchmen into Baghdad to kidnap girls and bring them there to satisfy these clowns. If not satisfied the girls would be lowered into the lion's cage where they would be devoured. Indeed, a single hemp rope came from the top of the outdoor cage and two skinny, emactiated lions prowled the piles of human bones. These girls were brutally raped, passed around, and if found wanting, slowly lowered to their death while their parents nervously paced at home. It was like a snapshot of horror.

As another posters noted Saddam despised radicals. The US was well aware that the local strongmen would have to go before the secterian and religious strife could be fueld; everyone knows this. Nothing happening today was not predicted. In fact, the number one goal of jihadis is not the great or lesser satan but the local illegimate rulers, and then shia. Thankfully, the US has deposed all the jihadis' threats for them. Cui bono?

There is absolutely no intention to win anything resembling a war in this region. Because the underlying aims and motivations of all the players are much different than what is suggested in the press no sensible strategy could ever be mustered.

[Publicus]

No one around here should get to comfy or smug.

ISIS has just recently targeted India and the Singapore Straits Times reports ISIS is reviving the notion of an Islamic caliphate in SE Asia, the Daulah Islamiah Nusantara.

The Caliphate initially focuses on Malaysia, Singapore, southern Thailand, Indonesia, southern Philippines. Recall al Qaeda had the same idea that eventually was demolished but only after bombing deaths in the region, Bali most prominently.

ISIS already has members from Cambodia and Malaysia. Indonesia last year outlawed ISIS there.

Jihadists planning regional Islamic caliphate in the Far East

Besides the four new groups, police are also monitoring a terror organization in Sabah [state of Malaysia] called Darul Islam Sabah. The plan for a regional Islamic caliphate Daulah Islamiah Nusantara was also confirmed in August by Ayob Khan Mydin Pitchay, the Malaysian counter-terrorism official whose investigations led to the arrest of the 19 jihadists in Malaysia. Ayob Khan confirmed that the militants had visions of establishing a hardline Southeast Asian caliphate spanning Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, the Philippines and Singapore, and planned to travel to Syria to learn from the Islamic State.

http://patriotsbillboard.org/four-new-jihadist-groups-planning-islamic-caliphate-malaysia-indonesia-singapore-thailand-southern-philippines/

I think based on the nature of ISIS it is probably a matter of time before they target and attempt to integrate with PULNO in the south of Thailand. So far, Pulno has remained focused on its cause of returning to Malaysia, however, who knows how they might feel once offered submission to an ISIS Caliphate that includes Malaysia and other parts of SE Asia.

No one is getting comfy or smug because Obama is in charge.

I know you don't mean Thailand. Some people turned against Obama when George Zimmerman shot the wrong black guy in the wrong city thus failing to change the course of history. ISIS has meanwhile recruited thousands of Islamic youth from Europe who have European passports, jihadists from Oz too. This thing is global yet most fahlang continue to consider themselves immune from the realities of the globalized world. Some fahlang aren't even fahlang -- more like self sufficiency backpackers.

Get used to all of it cause Hillary is going to be next. And she's going to bang nutcases here and there.

[NeverSure]

Yet another miserable chapter in the shamefully failed presidency of Barack Obama who will go down in history as the worst ,most inefficient and ineffectual United States president.

Yep and George did such a good job turning Iraq from a problem into a disaster. Much like the economy he inherited from Clinton.

-snip-

However not content with that mess, having inherited a healthy economic situation from Clinton, Bush then manages to contrive economic meltdown by the time he leaves office plunging the western economies into one of the biggest slumps since the thirties and which we are still trying to climb out of.

That's the second time I've read that in this thread and it isn't true. The first of Clinton's presidency had a good economy, but the last two years were dipping into a serious recession which Bush (who I can't stand) inherited.

I guess when enough people repeat something, it's accepted as fact.

No offense meant to you.

[arjunadawn]

Everyone warned Obama that some boots on the ground - special forces - were needed to guide the air war, but he ignored it for political reasons. This was easily foreseen.

Reports today say there are between 1000 to 1300 U.S. CIA, Special Ops, Special Forces on the ground doing that and more. There are about 300 German KS Kommandos on the ground with them, and who knows how many others from which other countries.

How many U.S. SF do you want on the ground there, 15.000? 5000? 30.000?

I'd be concerned if it started getting toward 5000 although I could accept 5000 but under only very specific and clearly defined purposes and rules of engagement. I reject any time frames as a part of the engagement.

This despite Obama being elected and re-elected to end wars rather than to start or to continue them.

Again, I think you are correct. Obama has actually initiated many military-like actions in a lot more locales than just Iraq and Afghanistan. So, using the sterilized "kinetic action" moniker Obama et al has effectively invaded a number of countries and murdered people that were not indicted, judged, nor convicted by any judicary, anywhere. Many civilians are killed in the conduct of this sterilized absurdity of war.

However, I am fairly certain that "advisors" are in observation or command and control roles for assets on the ground. The little known King Abdullah training facility in Jordan has been training these "assets" (rebels- al nursa- IS). I was among the core cell for the Iraqi ERU and at first we would not execute missions with them, but they shit the bed on so many operations that "advisors" had to join them on the raids. These too are the armies collapsing throughout the region. These same peoples are the pool in whcih fighters are selected and trained to then go into syria, with advisors from Jordan either command and control or BDA- Battle Damage Assessment.

There is no way the numbers are in the thousands; at least not multiples of thousands. CIA Ground Branch will have people there but it is unlikely that US SPecial Opeations command has many hundreds on the ground there; there is likely a battalion from, perhaps, the 5th Special Forces group, rotating A Teams in and out in support of CIA are local military command. The logistics and support requirements for evac, search and rescue, Escap and Evasion, and command and control are just enormous in denied land. However, I am confident that the restrictions are so overwhelming that they are mostly just watching and avoiding direct action. They would be terrified of active soldiers being captured.

[beechguy]

Yet another miserable chapter in the shamefully failed presidency of Barack Obama who will go down in history as the worst ,most inefficient and ineffectual United States president.

Yep and George did such a good job turning Iraq from a problem into a disaster. Much like the economy he inherited from Clinton.

Bush sucked but Obama sucks even more. It would be great if the US could ever elect a President based on their merits and not on their ability to be least disliked!!!

Yep lets look how we got there, the USA gets attacked by a group of young men mostly if not all who were from Saudi Arabia. The mastermind for the attack another Saudi national was based in Afghanistan. So what was the response of Bush, he attacks Iraq. Its lucky for us that Bush wasn't President when Pearl Harbour was attacked otherwise he might have ordered a retaliatory Doolittle strike against Bangkok.

Oh I forgot, Iraq had WMD and thus far they haven't found a peashooter. In fact Saddam Hussein confessed to his American interrogator that, at that stage he had nothing, it was all bluster for the Iranian's benefit. Can you imagine the reaction on the right if that had been a democrat who had made that blunder, the calls for impeachment would not have stopped.

Then Cheney tries to blame Obama for the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq when it was Bush and Cheney who negotiated and signed the agreement for the withdrawal of American troops. Leaving several thousand dead American and Allied servicemen, perhaps now is the time to bring up the four dead in Benghazi. Now more Americans are going to die along with others as we continue to pay for that blunder not only in lives but in the billions that it is costing our economies or should that be trillions?

What did Bush do about the instigator of the 9/11 attacks, he completely forgot about him for 8 years and it took the useless Obama some 18 months to bring him to book.

However not content with that mess, having inherited a healthy economic situation from Clinton, Bush then manages to contrive economic meltdown by the time he leaves office plunging the western economies into one of the biggest slumps since the thirties and which we are still trying to climb out of.

Obama would have very long way to go and were he to remain in office for another 8 years there is no way he would come close to matching the incompetence or the cost of the Bush presidency.

You're entitled to your opinion, but it would be better if it was based on facts and reality.

Edited October 12, 2014 by beechguy

[Loptr]

The current US air strikes in Syria have to nothing to do with stopping ISIS and everything to do with Saudi Arabia and Qatar wanting to depose Assad and have pipelines running into southern Europe... The current administration is toeing a very fine line of managing the media with respect to "attacking" ISIS for their actions and satiating Saudi Arabia's demands for US military intervention to preserve the petrodollar standard... Once you understand this perspective, current actions in the ME begin to make sense... Saudi Arabia is the only oil producing nation that is still an ally of the US...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39796.htm

http://real-agenda.com/2014/09/13/twenty-first-century-wars-to-keep-petrodollar-and-american-hegemony-alive/

Edited October 12, 2014 by Loptr

[johna]

Everyone warned Obama that some boots on the ground - special forces - were needed to guide the air war, but he ignored it for political reasons. This was easily foreseen.

Everyone warned Bush and Blair, but continuing the tradition of US stupidity in its ME policy, Obama pander's to GOP pressure to do something. I have no objection to the US sacrificing more American lives in a lost cause, but perhaps we should ask the warmongers, and UG to lead the charge.

[Thorgal]

Everyone warned Obama that some boots on the ground - special forces - were needed to guide the air war, but he ignored it for political reasons. This was easily foreseen.

Everyone warned Bush and Blair, but continuing the tradition of US stupidity in its ME policy, Obama pander's to GOP pressure to do something. I have no objection to the US sacrificing more American lives in a lost cause, but perhaps we should ask the warmongers, and UG to lead the charge.

I have objection in sacrificing any nationality/religion in this conflict. Edited October 12, 2014 by Thorgal

[pitrevie]

You're entitled to your opinion, but it would be better if it was based on facts and reality.

Well it would be nice if you challenged something and showed me where it was wrong so I guess you are also entitled to your opinion but it would be nice if you were able to state some facts which contradict what I have said.

[Publicus]

The blame rests with the shamefully previous precedency, that for no good reason, removed Saddam Hussein and upset the balance of power in the area.

Compared to what is happening now and the lives destroyed because of his removal make his regime look pretty tame.

Prior to his removal, estimates as to the number of Iraqis killed by Saddam's regime vary from roughly a quarter to half a million,including 50,000 to 182,000 Kurds and 25,000 to 280,000 killed during the repression of the 1991 rebellion. Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.

In 2003 I visited one of the palaces where Saddam's sons comitted some horrific acts. It wasn't the fanciest palace but it was only up the street from the main one that would be the core of the Green Zone. There were lion cages and hotubs around the perimter. Odd, huh? Well, these sick f7^ks would send their henchmen into Baghdad to kidnap girls and bring them there to satisfy these clowns. If not satisfied the girls would be lowered into the lion's cage where they would be devoured. Indeed, a single hemp rope came from the top of the outdoor cage and two skinny, emactiated lions prowled the piles of human bones. These girls were brutally raped, passed around, and if found wanting, slowly lowered to their death while their parents nervously paced at home. It was like a snapshot of horror.

As another posters noted Saddam despised radicals. The US was well aware that the local strongmen would have to go before the secterian and religious strife could be fueld; everyone knows this. Nothing happening today was not predicted. In fact, the number one goal of jihadis is not the great or lesser satan but the local illegimate rulers, and then shia. Thankfully, the US has deposed all the jihadis' threats for them. Cui bono?

There is absolutely no intention to win anything resembling a war in this region. Because the underlying aims and motivations of all the players are much different than what is suggested in the press no sensible strategy could ever be mustered.

There's no question the neocons empowered by Bush and his Dick Cheney are also at work in the Obama administration right up to the present and will continue to play their black hand to impact the ME.

This time however the Sunni states and the Shia states along with their autocratic and authoritarian leaders have entered the "game" by putting their chips on the table and into the pot. If much to their surprise this brings them down too, then so be it.

When Americans have gone to war they are used to a total effort of hyphenated dates separated by four or so years, as in 1941-1945 for instance. Other more recently authorized wars, contrasted to declared wars, have too many years on either side of the hyphen, such as the Vietnam Conflict of 1965-1974, or the current Afghanistan campaigns.

So Washington has a strategy to this campaign even if many fail to see it. It is predicated in part on the fact that, while the Arab Spring tossed some long entrenched rulers and elites, it demonstrably failed to manifest in some form of popular and secular rule. And the Arab Spring was sorely limited in the number of states it overturned.

This one against IS scrambles the deck. Fifty-two pick up.

Washington has made clear it will take time and will necessitate adjusting to fluid developments and to changing fortunes. This one is necessarily a big deal and can occur only over the long haul, meaning long after IS is reduced to ashes. If the goal to some is presently too distant, binoculars can do the trick. So can a look into the rear view mirror.

Generational, yes. It's what we've known all along since 9/11.

[Scott]

Posts with messed up quotes have been removed.

[beechguy]

The architect of the present Iraq.

Not quite, but he may have been the architect of the Iraq, that Obama gave away.

[pitrevie]

The architect of the present Iraq.

Not quite, but he may have been the architect of the Iraq, that Obama gave away.

Presumably that is one of your facts. The reality is the withdrawal from Iraq was negotiated and agreed during the Bush presidency that is a fact. Obama was honouring that agreement there was little else he could do, the Iraqis and it is their country had decided they wanted the USA out.But for Bush we would not have been there in the first place.

[beechguy]

Yet another miserable chapter in the shamefully failed presidency of Barack Obama who will go down in history as the worst ,most inefficient and ineffectual United States president.

Yep and George did such a good job turning Iraq from a problem into a disaster. Much like the economy he inherited from Clinton.

Bush sucked but Obama sucks even more. It would be great if the US could ever elect a President based on their merits and not on their ability to be least disliked!!!

Yep lets look how we got there, the USA gets attacked by a group of young men mostly if not all who were from Saudi Arabia. The mastermind for the attack another Saudi national was based in Afghanistan. So what was the response of Bush, he attacks Iraq. Its lucky for us that Bush wasn't President when Pearl Harbour was attacked otherwise he might have ordered a retaliatory Doolittle strike against Bangkok.

Oh I forgot, Iraq had WMD and thus far they haven't found a peashooter. In fact Saddam Hussein confessed to his American interrogator that, at that stage he had nothing, it was all bluster for the Iranian's benefit. Can you imagine the reaction on the right if that had been a democrat who had made that blunder, the calls for impeachment would not have stopped.

Then Cheney tries to blame Obama for the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq when it was Bush and Cheney who negotiated and signed the agreement for the withdrawal of American troops. Leaving several thousand dead American and Allied servicemen, perhaps now is the time to bring up the four dead in Benghazi. Now more Americans are going to die along with others as we continue to pay for that blunder not only in lives but in the billions that it is costing our economies or should that be trillions?

What did Bush do about the instigator of the 9/11 attacks, he completely forgot about him for 8 years and it took the useless Obama some 18 months to bring him to book.

However not content with that mess, having inherited a healthy economic situation from Clinton, Bush then manages to contrive economic meltdown by the time he leaves office plunging the western economies into one of the biggest slumps since the thirties and which we are still trying to climb out of.

Obama would have very long way to go and were he to remain in office for another 8 years there is no way he would come close to matching the incompetence or the cost of the Bush presidency.

Very well, paragraph one, yes, we did attack Iraq, but you are ignoring the fact we also attacked, and stayed engaged in Afghanistan.

Paragraph two, I was in Kuwait in 1998 when Bill Clinton was in office, the U.S. Military was plenty concerned then, about Sadam coming back across the border and the threat of WMD's, especially biological. So, did Clinton also lie or make a blunder? In 2003, I was issued MOPP gear again, and this time anthrax injections, because they still couldn't prove there wasn't still a threat.

Par. 3, as to Obama pulling out, yes, I already read your other post. His mistake was not exerting more pressure, and anyone involved knows that is required to accomplish anything there, and it is happening on his watch. As to costing more casualties, you would be ignoring the fact, the casualty rate was low the last few years while we maintained a presence , but yes, it will be considerably higher if we go back in.

Par 4, I assure you the Bush administration didn't forget Bin Laden, how do you think Obama had the resources in place, to continue that part of the mission?

Also, let's not forget, that going after Bin Laden wasn't just because of 9/11. There was a record going from the first World Trade Center Bombing in 1993, through a barracks bombing in 1996, 2 Embassies in 1998, and the USS Cole, not to mention other smaller incidents that didn't make, or remain in the headlines for people like you to read.

Par 5, Neversure already gave a response to the economic question, but I'll add that it seems convenient for you guys to ignore the Democrat involvement in legislation that lead to that mess.

Par 6, Obama has already far exceeded any incompetence the Bush administration had, look at any policy you want, foreign or domestic. Only people who choose to ignore his record would say otherwise.

Now, if you wish to consider my statements as opinion only, very well. But the FACT is, they are based on personal experience, working with the military in the Gulf from 1998-2008, and Iraq and Afghanistan, 2008-2012. So please do share your direct involvement in those areas.

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So Obama is not going to send more American troops to die in a pointless conflict that is not their affair.

Why don't the UN step forward?

Because they know it's a tin of worms as well.

I'm sure the world can do without Iraq and Syria's oil production, it's done OK so far.

Let them fight it out.

And it is keeping Iran very, very quiet as well.

Why don't the UN step forward?

It would be the UN Security Council that would vote on putting UN troops on the ground to fight ISIS/ISIL but remember any such binding resolution must have the unanimous vote of the five permanent members of the Security Council. Russia is a permanent member and Asaad is their client. Russia leases its only warm water seaport from Asaad. It will not allow any UN actions that might degrade Asaad's power. If ISIS were to be so stupid as to threaten Turkey, then NATO might mobilize - but thus far that seems remote and ISIS is killing off the Kurds who have been fighting Turkey for autonomy.

[bangkapi]

I'm so fed up with these globalist/banker/military industrial complex senseless interventions that I literally cheer ISIS or whoever the "enemy de jour" happens to be.

Every one of the incidents that draws the U.S. military into battle is either something that was provoked by covert or overt U.S military or secret service actions or done by one of these agencies as a false flag.

[simple1]

personal experience, working with the military in the Gulf from 1998-2008, and Iraq and Afghanistan, 2008-2012. So please do share your direct involvement in those areas.

Arjunadawn says he was extensive military / SF (?) advisory experience in the region and seems to infer the US has acted as a regional provocateur. In addition he claims:

"There is absolutely no intention to win anything resembling a war in this region. Because the underlying aims and motivations of all the players are much different than what is suggested in the press no sensible strategy could ever be mustered"

Given your extensive experience do you concur or disagree, if so why.

Edited October 12, 2014 by simple1

[Benmart]

Yet another miserable chapter in the shamefully failed presidency of Barack Obama who will go down in history as the worst ,most inefficient and ineffectual United States president.

The future will eventually become history once it has passed.

I'm not able to look into the future as far as his Presidency is concerned, therefore I am unable to compare his administration to that of past Presidents.

It is also difficult to compare him to Presdients that have yet to be elected. If one were to qualify his performance and how he measures up to past Presidents so far, that may certainly be a lively discussion.

[bigjules007]

I'm so fed up with these globalist/banker/military industrial complex senseless interventions that I literally cheer ISIS or whoever the "enemy de jour" happens to be.

Every one of the incidents that draws the U.S. military into battle is either something that was provoked by covert or overt U.S military or secret service actions or done by one of these agencies as a false flag.

Again do not believe everything your goverments tell you, war is one of the most profitable industries in the world.

There is a bigger plan at foot here,

ISIS or the Israeli Secret Intelligence Service is an organisation originally created by the CIA, Mi5 and Mossad, there intention was to start a fanatical organisation which would recruit the most fanatical islamists, the idea being they could track this organisation and there members and keep tabs on them, as well as using them as a tool to disrupt Arab States, there leader, Al Baghdadi is actually a jew named Elliott Shimon, who was trained by the Mossad, this information was leaked by an ex CIA agent named Edward Snowden.

Israel's continued attacks on the Syrian government are particularly bizarre considering the current context. With ISIS rapidly gaining influence in both Iraq and Syria (they just took 4 new towns in Iraq over the weekend), it would behoove Israel to consider what would actually happen if Assad fell. Do they actually want a rabid extremist group to establish an Islamic caliphate on their border?

I mean its a little strange dont you think that by providing free air support for the Syrian rebels, Israel is actually helping ISIS approach its goal of establishing an Islamic caliphate in Iraq and Syria.

There are also photos showing Elliot Shimon pictured at a meeting with John Mcain before he became "Al baghdadi" More recently a leaked video showing showing top ISIS members meeting with American politicians on an air base in Turkey.

Now before you start spouting out conspiracy theorist, blah, blah blah, do some research and make your own mind up.

[Ulysses G.]

Now before you start spouting out conspiracy theorist, blah, blah blah, do some research and make your own mind up.

I already have. These silly conspiracy theories are absurd.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[bigjules007]

Now before you start spouting out conspiracy theorist, blah, blah blah, do some research and make your own mind up.

I already have. These silly conspiracy theories are absurd.

Ok good, your entitled to your opinion and im entitled to mine.

By the way which part do you find absurd? Am i lying when i say that ISIS is run by Elliot Shimon aka Al Baghdadi? trained Mossad operative??

[Acharn]

Everyone warned Obama that some boots on the ground - special forces - were needed to guide the air war, but he ignored it for political reasons. This was easily foreseen.

Yes, easily foreseen. In fact since World War I the Air Power advocates have been promising cheap victories and failing to produce. The closest they've come is Gulf War I. But boots on the ground is not a viable option either. You would need more than a few thousand Special Operations forces. Between ISIS and the Sunni militias that have joined them they seem to have at least 35-50,000 men under arms now. American "intelligence" agencies can't even tell us where they are except that they must be in the neighborhood of Kobari and Mosul and Tikrit and Fallujah and Baghdad.

I don't know who you think "everybody" is, but how do you know what Obama's military advisers have told him? I suspect they told him that "boots on the ground" is not a viable option, because it would take at least six months to prepare a minimum force and move them to the area, and the Iraqis won't allow them in anyway. If you think we're going to invade Iraq again in order to fight ISIS you're out of your mind. Besides which, if we had to invade Iraq again we'd be fighting a lot more people than ISIS and the U.S. Army is at the breaking point already thanks to 12 years of continuous war.