AIDS

[JRingo]

AIDS and bargirls

In the north, there is no village or family that has not been touched by AIDS.

Go there and see for yourself.

There is an orphanage outside of Chiangmai, in Mae Rim that has a special

dormitory for bargirls who are pregnant and have AIDS.

They also have a whole slew of AIDS babies who were either orphaned or

abandoned. There are hundreds of girls here and twice as many babies.

Go North to any small village and ask if there is AIDS there and your answer will be

“yert yert” which means it is everywhere.

You guys down South in the city say you never see AIDS there, so you think it is

some sort of myth or lie. Well what happens is when the bargirls get sick, they go

home.

1998 my brother in law “Don” dies of AIDS he contracted going with bar girls

2000 my friends sister “Dow” who ran a beer bar in Chiang Mai dies of AIDS

2000 my good friend “Don” who worked at a hotel in Fang dies of AIDS contracted

from visiting bargirls.

2001 my nephew “Lert” wife dies of AIDS given to her from him who visited bargirls

and was HIV positive

2002 my third wife “Jansom” dies of AIDS given to her because her boyfriend visits

bargirls, her boyfriend and 10 year old daughter are both dieing of AIDS now

2005 my nephew “Lert” dies of AIDS

2006 “Lerts” last wife “Mouie” is HIV positive

[Guest endure]

What does the 'J' stand for? Jonah?

[chuchok]

AIDS and bargirls

In the north, there is no village or family that has not been touched by AIDS.

Go there and see for yourself.

There is an orphanage outside of Chiangmai, in Mae Rim that has a special

dormitory for bargirls who are pregnant and have AIDS.

They also have a whole slew of AIDS babies who were either orphaned or

abandoned. There are hundreds of girls here and twice as many babies.

Go North to any small village and ask if there is AIDS there and your answer will be

“yert yert” which means it is everywhere.

You guys down South in the city say you never see AIDS there, so you think it is

some sort of myth or lie. Well what happens is when the bargirls get sick, they go

home.

1998 my brother in law “Don” dies of AIDS he contracted going with bar girls

2000 my friends sister “Dow” who ran a beer bar in Chiang Mai dies of AIDS

2000 my good friend “Don” who worked at a hotel in Fang dies of AIDS contracted

from visiting bargirls.

2001 my nephew “Lert” wife dies of AIDS given to her from him who visited bargirls

and was HIV positive

2002 my third wife “Jansom” dies of AIDS given to her because her boyfriend visits

bargirls, her boyfriend and 10 year old daughter are both dieing of AIDS now

2005 my nephew “Lert” dies of AIDS

2006 “Lerts” last wife “Mouie” is HIV positive

All contracted during sex?Why didn't they use condoms?

[JRingo]

All contracted during sex?Why didn't they use condoms?

What do you want me to do, ask them?

Probably same old story, the guys didn't like them because they reduced their enjoyment

and the girls...well they had no say.

[chuchok]

All contracted during sex?Why didn't they use condoms?

What do you want me to do, ask them?

Probably same old story, the guys didn't like them because they reduced their enjoyment

and the girls...well they had no say.

You presume alot here.

[JRingo]

All contracted during sex?Why didn't they use condoms?

What do you want me to do, ask them?

Probably same old story, the guys didn't like them because they reduced their enjoyment

and the girls...well they had no say.

You presume alot here.

Well you asked...so how can I answer that? They are dead.

[johnh101]

For someone who stays here only 3 months a year this guy 'presumes' a lot.

[JRingo]

For someone who stays here only 3 months a year this guy 'presumes' a lot.

The guy asked me a question, and I answered it:

"What do you want me to do, ask them?

Probably same old story.."

The people are dead, my relatives by the way.

So how would you answer that.

Thanks for your sensitive reply.

[Sing_Sling]

It's easier for some to make glib remarks . . .

JRingo - how many of these girls were prostitutes and wealthy multiple-bungalow owning, Mercedes-driving, doctor-outearning socialites from PatPong?

[Ling Kae]

[Probably same old story, the guys didn't like them because they reduced their enjoyment

and the girls...well they had no say.

Well the girls DO have a say and on many ocassions girls have said no condom = no sex but the problem is (if they are working girls) they choose extra money over the protection, other times they just don't care.

Aids is a real problem in Thailand. Out of a population of 70 million it is estimated 1 million of those people are infected with HIV. The problem lies in eductation, the average girl from rural areas has low education and very little education on sexual matters. Saying they had no say is incorrect.

Edited July 25, 2006 by Ling Kae

[Gary A]

JRingo, you have a black cloud following you, please let me know where you hang out so I can stay away from you. I know that AIDS exists but there are fear mongers who try to blow it all out of proportion. YES, even one case is too many but it is not as common as you try to make us believe. I moved over here in 1991 and before I was married the bars were a big part of my life. I only know FIRST hand of two girls who tested HIV positive. Both were bar girls. I don't know of a single farang who has tested positive. They may not be willing to admit it if they had but I don't know of any farang here who has died of AIDS.

Chaing Mai/Rai has more than its share of AIDS but until just recently they had drug shooting joints where they passed the needle around a group. A lot of soldiers and brothel girls were infected.

[JRingo]

It's easier for some to make glib remarks . . .

JRingo - how many of these girls were prostitutes and wealthy multiple-bungalow owning, Mercedes-driving, doctor-outearning socialites from PatPong?

zero

[Scott]

AIDS affects everyone, not just prostitutes and those that visit them. I know (I have worked in a medical setting) lots of people affected. For example, a lady who had a transfusion, passed it on to her husband and unborn child--very tragic.

It is preventable, it isn't easy to get, but you can and people need to be sensitive and understanding.

Gov'ts need to provide medication. These orphans aren't going to grow up to be particularly outstanding citizens without the support of a family.

[meadish_sweetball]

These orphans aren't going to grow up to be particularly outstanding citizens without the support of a family.

An NGO in Chiang Mai estimates that there are about 300 000 orphans of AIDS in Thailand. If these figures are reasonably correct, it's a ticking time bomb.

AIDS is indeed a big problem in Northern villages - those of you who have spouses and close Thai friends from there will know.

[Maigo6]

I knew some girls that died of Aids, and they were certainly HIV positive long before they got too sick to work.

I will never understand why so many men put their lives at risk when they go to Thailand as sex tourists.

Looking at the average male tourist in Pattaya, I understand it would be near impossible for them to attract a sex partner without paying, but even then, is it worth the risk?

The phrase " I'm dying for a shag " takes on a whole new meaning.

[tourleadersi]

JRingo

My sincerest condolences for the loss of so many people that are close to you and under such tragic circumstances.

Is it a result of that that has led you to open 3 threads in or around this subject? Is it an attempt to gain 'closure' or get some therapy? If that is the case then I would advise against this forum as a means of theraputic treatment. There are better ways to get help. The risk of someone posting an inflamatory comment here and upsetting you further is pretty high. Just a friendly word of advice.

If that isn't the case, and you are on a moral rampage then please continue on, but do expect to get a few jaded responses if your thread opening frenzy continues.

I hope that your run of tragedies regarding those nearest to you comes to a stop soon.

[JRingo]

JRingo

My sincerest condolences for the loss of so many people that are close to you and under such tragic circumstances.

Is it a result of that that has led you to open 3 threads in or around this subject? Is it an attempt to gain 'closure' or get some therapy? If that is the case then I would advise against this forum as a means of theraputic treatment. There are better ways to get help. The risk of someone posting an inflamatory comment here and upsetting you further is pretty high. Just a friendly word of advice.

If that isn't the case, and you are on a moral rampage then please continue on, but do expect to get a few jaded responses if your thread opening frenzy continues.

I hope that your run of tragedies regarding those nearest to you comes to a stop soon.

Thank you for your condolences.

I have kept some of this stuff bottled up in me for 20 years.

I just deal with tragedy after tragedy up north on a routine basis.

However, what has changed is that I have had to go to Bangkok to conduct some

business every few months and to tell you the truth I was absolutely shocked.

I have been staying at hotels on Sukhumvit and honestly I have never been there

before.

Wave after wave after teenage farmgirls with fat white sex tourists.

It’s apparent where my misery is coming from and the absolute disaster of normal

family life up North.

It has been going on a long time, I just never saw it first hand.

It really is a crime against humanity and I feel like talking about it.

I would like to thank the moderators of Thai Visa for letting my threads go for so

long.

I don’t know, maybe will someone will …maybe something will….change???

[wasabi]

It's my understanding that go-go and bargirls are tested for HIV once a month. I realize this is not fail safe and no excuse not to use a condom but I think the risk of going with a girl who is not a freelancer is not as dangerous as you say.

[sabaijai]

It really is a crime against humanity and I feel like talking about it.

So this is what your latest thread is really about, not AIDS, correct?

Reminds me of a well-attended panel discussion on sex tourism at the FCCT a few years back. Throughout the early part of the evening attendees--both expert panelists and press/audience members--were talking about 'the sex tourism problem' or 'the prostitution problem', the clear assumption being it was something to be supressed, solved or wiped out. When it was time for an EMPOWER representative (a Thai woman and former commercial sex worker) on the panel to speak, she said, 'Let me make one thing clear from the start. We don't have a problem with sex tourism at all. We have a problem with public perceptions that make it difficult and dangerous to do our job.'

At the moment the main risk of contracting AIDS in Thailand comes not from having sex with a commercial sex worker but from a man or woman who is not a CSW.

Sex tourism and AIDS have become increasingly unassociated, statistically speaking, since the mid 1980s.

[JRingo]

It really is a crime against humanity and I feel like talking about it.

So this is what your latest thread is really about, not AIDS, correct?

Reminds me of a well-attended panel discussion on sex tourism at the FCCT a few years back. Throughout the early part of the evening attendees--both expert panelists and press/audience members--were talking about 'the sex tourism problem' or 'the prostitution problem', the clear assumption being it was something to be supressed, solved or wiped out. When it was time for an EMPOWER representative (a Thai woman and former commercial sex worker) on the panel to speak, she said, 'Let me make one thing clear from the start. We don't have a problem with sex tourism at all. We have a problem with public perceptions that make it difficult and dangerous to do our job.'

At the moment the main risk of contracting AIDS in Thailand comes not from having sex with a commercial sex worker but from a man or woman who is not a CSW.

Sex tourism and AIDS have become increasingly unassociated, statistically speaking, since the mid 1980s.

Don't take my word for it, go up north to the orphanage full of bargirls with AIDS. This is not a troll, it is real place. I'll give you directions if you want.

[Beavis and Butthead]

JRingo, you have a black cloud following you, please let me know where you hang out so I can stay away from you. I know that AIDS exists but there are fear mongers who try to blow it all out of proportion. YES, even one case is too many but it is not as common as you try to make us believe. I moved over here in 1991 and before I was married the bars were a big part of my life. I only know FIRST hand of two girls who tested HIV positive. Both were bar girls. I don't know of a single farang who has tested positive. They may not be willing to admit it if they had but I don't know of any farang here who has died of AIDS.

Chaing Mai/Rai has more than its share of AIDS but until just recently they had drug shooting joints where they passed the needle around a group. A lot of soldiers and brothel girls were infected.

Totally agree with you on this one

[t.s]

It's my understanding that go-go and bargirls are tested for HIV once a month. I realize this is not fail safe and no excuse not to use a condom but I think the risk of going with a girl who is not a freelancer is not as dangerous as you say.

Tested? Where? At whose expense?

I wouldn't bet the farm on that.

[Pakboong]

there has been much resarch which finds that Thai men visit Prostitutes at a rate over 10 times that of sex tourists in any given year.

[Heng]

It's my understanding that go-go and bargirls are tested for HIV once a month. I realize this is not fail safe and no excuse not to use a condom but I think the risk of going with a girl who is not a freelancer is not as dangerous as you say.

If you can avoid a traffic ticket for 100 Baht, you can definitely avoid an anti-HIV test for a price. I'm not talking about women and men doing so because they are afraid of needles.... I'm talking about those who need to continue to pay bills and support children, families, etc. even though they are dying. From what I hear, the testing conditions aren't exactly professional sports level in terms of security or how strict the procedures are.

Sympathy for their customers who they might be killing? Lolz. Som nam nar more likely.

[Ling Kae]

It's my understanding that go-go and bargirls are tested for HIV once a month. I realize this is not fail safe and no excuse not to use a condom but I think the risk of going with a girl who is not a freelancer is not as dangerous as you say.

If you can avoid a traffic ticket for 100 Baht, you can definitely avoid an anti-HIV test for a price. I'm not talking about women and men doing so because they are afraid of needles.... I'm talking about those who need to continue to pay bills and support children, families, etc. even though they are dying. From what I hear, the testing conditions aren't exactly professional sports level in terms of security or how strict the procedures are.

Sympathy for their customers who they might be killing? Lolz. Som nam nar more likely.

Most beer bars do not enforce mandatory testing, the girls could well be unchecked for long periods of time. Go Go's are more responsible and in some there are signs saying that their girls are checked regularily but that is as Heng says "aren't exactly professional sports level in terms of security or how strict the procedures are."

[Noel]

HIV/AIDS is indeed a very real problem, but before the situation can be changed the root causes have to be identified and addressed.

The OP seems to be targeting his angst toward “fat white sex tourists” and farang in general.

His words imply that it is farang who are responsible for the spread of HIV/AIDS in Thailand.

Does he honestly believe that these innocent little farm girls all have a clean bill of health when they first arrive in the bright lights to pursue their chosen or parentally selected ‘career’?

The stark reality is that many of these girls were infected in their villages before they had ever set eyes on a farang.

Education pertaining to HIV/AIDS awareness within Thai communities has to be the cornerstone for stemming the spread of HIV/AIDS.

Of course farang bars catering for ignorant/irresponsible farang customers who practice unprotected sex will contribute to the spread of HIV/AIDS, but that is secondary to the core issue.

[Digger]

HIV/AIDS is indeed a very real problem, but before the situation can be changed the root causes have to be identified and addressed.

The OP seems to be targeting his angst toward “fat white sex tourists” and farang in general.

His words imply that it is farang who are responsible for the spread of HIV/AIDS in Thailand.

Does he honestly believe that these innocent little farm girls all have a clean bill of health when they first arrive in the bright lights to pursue their chosen or parentally selected ‘career’?

The stark reality is that many of these girls were infected in their villages before they had ever set eyes on a farang.

Education pertaining to HIV/AIDS awareness within Thai communities has to be the cornerstone for stemming the spread of HIV/AIDS.

Of course farang bars catering for ignorant/irresponsible farang customers who practice unprotected sex will contribute to the spread of HIV/AIDS, but that is secondary to the core issue.

Exactly my experience of how infection was spread to the girl who's treatment I pay for. She had been working as a service girl in a Gogo (farang owned but no testing for her) - she believes although cannot be sure - that she was infected by her then boyfriend - They had split up 5 years before and he was much older - she was 16 at the time - end result in how she reached that conclusion - he has already died of AIDS. With treatment, she is in excellent health with a normal CD4 level and undetectable viral load - she also claims to be celebate - "i'm not risking my health again for any man" so she tells me - anytime a guy tries to pick her up she says she is a tomboy !!! Incidentally she does not work in the bar anymore, but another lesson there - she was not tested in the 3 years she had been working there. "me service, I not get tested like dancer"

[jdinasia]

For someone who stays here only 3 months a year this guy 'presumes' a lot.

The guy asked me a question, and I answered it:

"What do you want me to do, ask them?

Probably same old story.."

The people are dead, my relatives by the way.

So how would you answer that.

Thanks for your sensitive reply.

So your relatives were working in farang frequented beer/go-go bars?

Basically under Health Minister MeeChai AIDS education was an important thing ... very forward thinking!

If you visit your local AIDS hospice you will find that most (certainly NOT all!!) of those cases were contracted through heterosexual sex ... and few from the farang oriented bars (relatively speaking)

It's unfortunate ... but other than cry about what is NOT gonna change ... doing some real education on HIV prevention would be a good thing!

[Gary A]

I had posted previously that I knew first hand of two bar girls who tested HIV positive. They came from two different bars and both found out through the bar required testing. Those two bars have their own doctors and like it or not the girls DON'T get the results. The results are delivered directly to the bar that is paying for the examinations. Most who think the testing is bullshit are correct. Bars that require and pay for the testing are few and far between. The few bars who do test, send the girls every week for a STD test and every three months for an HIV test. The few bars that test give the health card to the girl and she gives it to the doctor. The doctor delivers it back to the bar. Some bars let the girls take care of their own health cards and that means the cards are worthless.

JRingo, you have a black cloud following you, please let me know where you hang out so I can stay away from you. I know that AIDS exists but there are fear mongers who try to blow it all out of proportion. YES, even one case is too many but it is not as common as you try to make us believe. I moved over here in 1991 and before I was married the bars were a big part of my life. I only know FIRST hand of two girls who tested HIV positive. Both were bar girls. I don't know of a single farang who has tested positive. They may not be willing to admit it if they had but I don't know of any farang here who has died of AIDS.

Chaing Mai/Rai has more than its share of AIDS but until just recently they had drug shooting joints where they passed the needle around a group. A lot of soldiers and brothel girls were infected.

Totally agree with you on this one

[Noel]

It's my understanding that go-go and bargirls are tested for HIV once a month. I realize this is not fail safe and no excuse not to use a condom but I think the risk of going with a girl who is not a freelancer is not as dangerous as you say.

If you can avoid a traffic ticket for 100 Baht, you can definitely avoid an anti-HIV test for a price. I'm not talking about women and men doing so because they are afraid of needles.... I'm talking about those who need to continue to pay bills and support children, families, etc. even though they are dying. From what I hear, the testing conditions aren't exactly professional sports level in terms of security or how strict the procedures are.

Sympathy for their customers who they might be killing? Lolz. Som nam nar more likely.

Most beer bars do not enforce mandatory testing, the girls could well be unchecked for long periods of time. Go Go's are more responsible and in some there are signs saying that their girls are checked regularily but that is as Heng says "aren't exactly professional sports level in terms of security or how strict the procedures are."

Even if the girls are tested and the results show them to be HIV negative, that does not necessarily mean they are not infected.

The HIV virus is transmitted immediately (there can be no incubation period as some might claim), but it can take anywhere from three to six months for sufficient antibodies to be produced that can be detected.

Testing is of course to be encouraged, but it is by no means foolproof.