Ebola In Thailand..... Are You Prepared?

[wackybacky]

^^ Wacky, good list. Yes, we include stuff like first aid provisions, basic medicines. It's actually a huge list come to think of it. Been doing the shopping like this for many years. Run it like a military supply operation.

I tend to do it when the kids are at school and only take them to do quick shopping on the weekends for other essentials like roller skates and bicycles, endless pairs of shoes and electric guitars, ipad things.

Thanks man....

My big worry is the rest of the family.... How could we turn them away?

If they ignore me to the end and end up with nowt stored, we will have to look at serious rations 4 extra adults and 3 kids.

As things develop and start to get more and more serious. I think I am going to have to push them and push them.... just to shut me up.

[ATF]

I don't believe anyone has mentioned the Spanish Flu Pandemic. It killed between 50-100 million people globally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

[MJP]

^^ Wacky, good list. Yes, we include stuff like first aid provisions, basic medicines. It's actually a huge list come to think of it. Been doing the shopping like this for many years. Run it like a military supply operation.

I tend to do it when the kids are at school and only take them to do quick shopping on the weekends for other essentials like roller skates and bicycles, endless pairs of shoes and electric guitars, ipad things.

Thanks man....

My big worry is the rest of the family.... How could we turn them away?

If they ignore me to the end and end up with nowt stored, we will have to look at serious rations 4 extra adults and 3 kids.

As things develop and start to get more and more serious. I think I am going to have to push them and push them.... just to shut me up.

Regardless of a global pandemic of killer diseases, pending asteroid strikes or worldwide zombification . . . get a Makro card, understand the pricing, buy in bulk, store securely and save!

You may have to do all this yourself. PM me if you need advice.

Edited October 14, 2014 by MJP

[bkkcanuck8]

@ATF, I have on several of my postings - the flu killed one of my heros... Sam Steele.

That flu virus killed "only" between 3 to 5%, and it spread rather fast with returning troops -- even without air travel. If it happened today it would spread globally in a matter of months.

A virus with the mortality rate comparable to ebola would be the black plague which killed up to 60% of the population in some European countries. It was so devastating that simple things like record keeping on basic information started breaking down. People had to be disposed of in bulk, with no regards to who was buried where - just tossed in a big pit and buried.

Luckily, the current virus is not quite as dangerous (yet). Of course it could change.

[ukrules]

I don't believe anyone has mentioned the Spanish Flu Pandemic. It killed between 50-100 million people globally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

Based on some research I've read special attention should be paid to the section on the new wonder drug of the day 'aspirin' which was available in potent powder form at the time.

They didn't know what dose to use back then and aspirin is now well known to be an immune system suppresor, especially at high doses.

[williet98248]

I think it is way too soon to worry about this. But if the world authorities don't get a handle on it and the infections get into the multiple hundreds of thousands or millions then we will get a civilization altering event. A medical 'World War Z'; not with zombies but with a disease. A possibility of a bubonic plague style event. The BP killed over 30% of the population of Europe in the 1600s. The flu killed about 17 million people in the early 1900s. When the first case is reported in Thailand I will start to worry and will start my own personal hoarding of supplies. When the first case is reported in Phuket I will go into total lockdown. I don't trust the Thai authorities. Their main concern would be loss of revenue from the drop in tourism. But I must reiterate that it is a remote possibility. People should worry more about venturing out on the roads. Much more dangerous than Ebola.

[wackybacky]

I think it is way too soon to worry about this. But if the world authorities don't get a handle on it and the infections get into the multiple hundreds of thousands or millions then we will get a civilization altering event. A medical 'World War Z'; not with zombies but with a disease. A possibility of a bubonic plague style event. The BP killed over 30% of the population of Europe in the 1600s. The flu killed about 17 million people in the early 1900s. When the first case is reported in Thailand I will start to worry and will start my own personal hoarding of supplies. When the first case is reported in Phuket I will go into total lockdown. I don't trust the Thai authorities. Their main concern would be loss of revenue from the drop in tourism. But I must reiterate that it is a remote possibility. People should worry more about venturing out on the roads. Much more dangerous than Ebola.

I agree with almost all you say here.

Apart from the 'way too soon' part.

The world medical organisations were warned about this back in December. By March they realised that this was not the same as all the other ebola outbreaks. By August experts were already talking about it spreading outside of Africa as soon as a month, now it has, and experts all seem to be united that by January as little as 550,000 cases or up to 1.4 million cases in Africa alone.

There are about 8400 infections with a 71% mortality rate. It has already entered 8 countries and the exponential growth can see it in the tens of millions by March 2015.... It is the exponential growth that is the main worry because as time goes by it speeds up faster and faster.

The transmission rates are doubling every approx 18 days... after it has doubled it will double again in just 15 days, and then double again in 12 days. That is exponential spread rates.... eventually it will be doubling every day and then more than doubling. Long before it gets to this stage there will be mass global panic, I guarantee it. I don't think we will see a vaccine for this and there is every possibility that it will have to burn out and that could see billions killed.

The world will never be the same again.

It is far from way too early.... January is just around the corner and you need time to prepare properly lest people be running around like headless chickens at the last minute and end up poorly provisioned to ride out the epidemic.

[sup3r1or]

And they will all catch it. This doesnt look anywhere near as protected as suits in us and europe that were showed off. Where is the isolation unit? I also wonder why Hua Hin....

[iamariva1957]

This is a case of too much information gathering. Fear of Ebola though warranted, should not consume every waking moment of one's life.

Yes, it is a situation that has to be dealt with on a global scale, at least regarding the precautions that should be taken to minimize its traveling to other countries (like shut down all air traffic to and from the Western Africa locations now fighting the outbreak would be a good start). But it has to be remembered that the virus's incubation time is 10 to 14 days and so we may not know that anyone is ill right away. So the world had better get geared up... just in case and be able to act quickly.

But here in Thailand, fighting the spread of this virus if it hits land here might be difficult. Even though the Thai medical people say that they have discovered a way to combat this virus, we have seen what they were able to do with the Koh Tao killings... so perhaps we should not take too much stock in that claim... just yet.

However, this country is far better off than West African states. There is a far greater sense of personal hygiene here and although there is trash in the streets and not every surface is cleaned as in the West, Thailand is far from being Liberia (if you have been there you will know what I mean).

So though fear of the virus is a good thing, panic is not. The cases in the EU and the US are from protocols not being followed to the letter within the isolation wards. But vigilantes has to be maintained and the CDC has to monitor the situation and the drug firms have to get the lead out and get the drugs to those that need them and the "Untested" issues be damned.

Many many experts are already saying that ebola is poised (if not already) to go airborne as is incredibly likely to do so. The ONLY organization that is denying it has or is likely to is the CDC.

The CDC are also scapegoating the nurse who has now contracted it, by saying she didn't follow protocol... I don't buy it. If you are working with an ebola patient in the most infectious stages of the illness, you are not going to be sloppy with your own safety.

Compound this with the fact that many health workers in the front line in West Africa have died of the disease. In Liberia it is reported that 25% of the deaths are health workers and only have 250 doctors left in the country.

I don't think the protective equipment is enough to stop the transmission and may already be airborne and all they seem to be using are paper masks...... Not enough.

Also don't forget the worst material for contamination is faeces, and we all know how hygienic the Thais are when they go to the toilet. They clean themselves with their hand and cold water and then come out of the toilet and continue to prepare your food, such as chopping your salad etc.....

If it gets to Thailand it can spread like a bush fire with these practices. You going to be able to educate an entire country of people who have been doing it the Thai way for centuries to stop doing it the Thai way?

Your claims regarding the CDC are both unfounded and without merit. If you have proof, verifiable proof, for these statements of yours please share them with us all. If you do not then all we can do is take them as your own personal opinion and therefore only worth a listen to and nothing more. For there are no "escape goats" or anyone being labeled as being one here. Remember that we are all human and we all make mistakes no matter what the situation.

Breaking protocols is not as difficult as you might think... ever run that Yellow light just before it turns Red just to save a second or two? If you have then you have broken a protocol which increased your chances of hitting someone and maybe even getting killed or killing that other person and maybe even causing a chain reaction impacting others. As far as the virus verging on the point of becoming "airborne"... well it already is sort of... by getting on a plane and traveling across the globe! If you want to panic... I would say that that would be good point to start from. But then again... what will panicking solve? Which is really the response I had for the original poster.

The difficulty is that in the areas where it is now so prevalent is an area where sanitation, living conditions, poor hygiene, poverty, and poor education levels/conditions exist. Furthermore, we have an air transport system that opens the 'door' to the virus spreading across the globe if given the chance. This virus is a living organism and as such has its own set of rules to follow, rules that we have to understand completely so that we can it fight more effectively. For at present we are using 'tried and true' methods that we have learned from past outbreaks. The inclusion of the UK and US naval assets now being sent will certainly improve matters, but it is too early to know to what extent those improvements will have on the outbreak. We have brought new medications to the fight and we are still waiting to see how effective (if at all) they may be. We are reaching out to an already frightened population who have an even lesser understanding of what needs to be done than we hoped for. We have not enough assets there, and we are dealing with local governments that historically have little real interest in their peoples and are not willing to commit their own forces which have always been needed.

What we need is a global involvement from every country not just the usual 2 nations (the French Doctors Without Borders is not a French government entity) and to shut down the flights in and out of the area and continued screening processes at all airports... not just the international ones. Now some would say that that this will only have a "limited effect" (BBC this morning), but "limited" is better than nothing at all!

Thailand does have hygiene issues and in many places share a good number of conditions of those that are ever present in West Africa. However, to a far lesser extent. If you have ever been to those West African nations you will know what I mean. I actually worry more about India than Thailand or anywhere in SEA. But then, who from West Africa wants to go to India is the question. Will Thailand see its first case of the virus? Maybe. The chances are anyone's guess right now as the ramifications and the ability of the virus to spread, the doors it has to do so, and because it is very difficult to monitor any of it... well... in fact the chances are there.

But the environment here in Thailand for this virus to spread as it has done in Africa are not the same. It would be very difficult for the virus to get a hold due to the very nature of the Thai culture. You mention the washing of hands and then "cooking your food". Well as I have been to those African countries in the past with the UN I can tell you categorically that at least here they actually wash their hands (in cold water or not and remember that the soup that is used here is just as good in cold water as in hot)! At least there is a sanitation system that does not simply spill out into a surface exposed trough in the middle of the street and garbage is picked up daily in purpose built vehicles.

The CDC and its equivalent organizations in other countries are all we, 'civilians' have in the war against Ebola (which is what this effort should be called) so let us not 'knock them', but rather do all we can to help them even if that means sitting back with Hope.

[JDGRUEN]

I don't believe anyone has mentioned the Spanish Flu Pandemic. It killed between 50-100 million people globally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

Based on some research I've read special attention should be paid to the section on the new wonder drug of the day 'aspirin' which was available in potent powder form at the time.

They didn't know what dose to use back then and aspirin is now well known to be an immune system suppresor, especially at high doses.

Yes - I just recently read about aspirin should not be used in cases of Dengue Fever.

Also - it is very difficult to compare an epidemic that came and went before modern technology. Back then it was barely understood what caused the Flu., little was know about the mechanism of spreading it... and the spread of the disease was not communicated with the speed and accuracy that we can do today - giving due warning. Viral suppressant drugs didn't exist, vaccines for this flu didn't exist, supportive medical care was not generally available to all ... the list is very long and it tells the story of why it killed so many - and it was an especially virulent mutation of the Influenza virus. Today we have everything to fight epidemics - but the downside to technology is world-wide jet travel - infection at your doorstep in a few hours... a mixed bag of good and bad...

[thailiketoo]

• David Dausey, a Yale-educated disease researcher, has argued that the bungled handling of the Thomas Eric Duncan case proves the US must close its borders to keep Ebola out of the country
• He is one of the first experts to advocate the closing of borders
• The CDC maintains that blocking flights from West Africa would make the Ebola outbreak there worse by hurting the local economy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2783829/Epidemiologist-says-US-stop-flights-Ebola-stricken-West-Africa-prevent-future-outbreaks-America.html

I only posted this in case any high ranking Thai people read Thai Visa now would be a good time to start the travel ban. America has a large block of voters to contend with but Thailand has none so this would be a good time..........

Edited October 15, 2014 by thailiketoo

[JDGRUEN]

Medical Research Org CIDRAP: Ebola Transmittable by Air

The highly respected Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP) at the University of Minnesota just advised the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and World Health Organization (WHO) that “there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles,” including exhaled breath.


http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/10/14/CIDRAP-Confirms-Ebola-Transmittable-by-Air

[glegolo]

Good post OP....We should really consider what if..... scary as said before!!

Thanks for your thoughts...

Glegolo

[jaiyen17]

As a U.S / Canadian Citizen living in Thailand I too am following this very closely for a number of reasons. I've been watching it closely since June as I've feared something like this could potentially close borders and I split my time between 2 countries (U.S/Thailand). My husband is Thai. I fly home on Nov. 24th to run my small retail store for the Holiday season. Flying makes me a bit uneasy... but I'll most likely still get on that plane end of Nov. I am however worried with the current projections of numbers multiplying of the potential of Thailand closing borders to infected countries if things get worse. I am supposed to fly back here Jan. 15th and the thought of being separated from my husband isn't a good one.

I also remember how I felt last time there was a potential pandemic in Ca. Swine Flu I believe it was. Anyway, being in Retail...exchanging money constantly with close contact to people and sharing a bathroom was something that made me feel very uneasy during that time. I washed my hands constantly and sanitized the doorknobs frequently.

I've been following this thread since yesterday and haven't posted until now. 2nd reported case in the U.S of an infected health care worker in Texas 30 min. ago. Uh oh~

http://news.yahoo.com/second-texas-healthcare-worker-tests-positive-ebola-090736415.html

Edited October 15, 2014 by jaiyen17

[German Viking]

Of course they don't need it. Who needs it? Ebola makes a hole in the head look more appealing.

I have attempted to explain the 'possible' seriousness of the matter with the wife and her family, and they just seemed to snigger.... Despite the fact I have sat my wife down and gone into details of what exactly is on the line in the worst case scenario.

She merely is of the attitude that Thais will in general just heard themselves into the temple to wai.

So should I decide to go ahead with making preps, I am certainly on my own in that respect.

Thais think completely different to westerners, I see it every day.... Even in possible apocalyptic scenarios, and I don't think this junta will even move them an inch.

There will be endless streams of false info being disseminated across social media such as iphone 6 will give you ebola, farangs brought ebola to Thailand (potentially dangerous), It's ok... if I get ill, we have a cure anyway. etc etc etc.....

We're 'prepers' by default. We tend to hit Makro with a couple of pick-up trucks once or twice a year and get all long life stuff in serious bulk, like tins, washing powder, shampoo, toothpaste, you know that sort of thing. This saves a fortune over the year. That said it stays in a locked store room and is not a local 'shop'. On top of that the farms provides much of the fresh produce, rice is stockpiled.

The grounds of the house have a perimeter wall and solid stainless steel gates keep zombies out.

Have beans, but no shotguns.

Lol....

So seeing as there a couple of folk around who can't sleep the same as i can't at the moment.

I have made a very basic list of what i consider essentials.

Drinking water

We already have storage of 5000 L of other water.

Dried goods like

rice,

pasta,

mama,

plain noodles,

cereals such as muesli

dried milk powder

sugar

powdered mashed potato

powdered sauce mixes

Flour

Yeast

dried peas

salt

Canned products like

fruit

fish (tuna, sardines ) etc...

evaporated milk (mix 50/50 with water for fresh milk).

Condensed milk

baked beans

any other veggies

I already make a lot of my own preserves, I make my own ketchup, jams and pickles.

Meds will include

antibiotics, ibruprofen etc etc we have most of the common stuff, vitamin supplements, cod liver oil caps. Will beef up on other things that help treat ebola symptoms but I doubt we would need then so much.

I plan to have enough for 2 people for a year, if there is a rush on Makro, I would join in obviously and add to my stocks and for the family.

When that happens, I already know where I can get hold of solar panels cheap, and will get a bank of batteries together, I already have plenty low voltage lights here. Possibly a small genny and a portable toilet and enough chems to last. These are the most expensive things, so only if a problem is imminent will I go that far.

I can't have thought of everything, but I have a good mix of carbs, vitamins, proteans, calcium, iron and of course hydration.

But would welcome any advice on what anyone may think would be handy in a siege situation... I don't want weapons, I can't get hold of a gun, and I would probably give up a share of my stuff to save our lives. I doubt very much though that even Thais are daft enough to slash at someone with a machete when that person could be infected, the last thing they want is blood splattered all over their fact.....lol

I suppose I just roll the dice on defence as and if it happened.

Viva la paranoia! In a serious case of a siege, do you think somebody would go away with only a part of your foods when he having more power(Weapons) as you? You are a dreamer

[Jingthing]

There is political talk in the U.S. now about travel restrictions from west Africa. I'm surprised Thailand isn't considering this yet. Mostly my understanding is that it won't help and may even hurt, but from a political (do something!) POV I can see the appeal.

[h90]

There is political talk in the U.S. now about travel restrictions from west Africa. I'm surprised Thailand isn't considering this yet. Mostly my understanding is that it won't help and may even hurt, but from a political (do something!) POV I can see the appeal.

but it would put another dent in the tourist arrival numbers....

[wackybacky]

This is a case of too much information gathering. Fear of Ebola though warranted, should not consume every waking moment of one's life.

Yes, it is a situation that has to be dealt with on a global scale, at least regarding the precautions that should be taken to minimize its traveling to other countries (like shut down all air traffic to and from the Western Africa locations now fighting the outbreak would be a good start). But it has to be remembered that the virus's incubation time is 10 to 14 days and so we may not know that anyone is ill right away. So the world had better get geared up... just in case and be able to act quickly.

But here in Thailand, fighting the spread of this virus if it hits land here might be difficult. Even though the Thai medical people say that they have discovered a way to combat this virus, we have seen what they were able to do with the Koh Tao killings... so perhaps we should not take too much stock in that claim... just yet.

However, this country is far better off than West African states. There is a far greater sense of personal hygiene here and although there is trash in the streets and not every surface is cleaned as in the West, Thailand is far from being Liberia (if you have been there you will know what I mean).

So though fear of the virus is a good thing, panic is not. The cases in the EU and the US are from protocols not being followed to the letter within the isolation wards. But vigilantes has to be maintained and the CDC has to monitor the situation and the drug firms have to get the lead out and get the drugs to those that need them and the "Untested" issues be damned.

Many many experts are already saying that ebola is poised (if not already) to go airborne as is incredibly likely to do so. The ONLY organization that is denying it has or is likely to is the CDC.

The CDC are also scapegoating the nurse who has now contracted it, by saying she didn't follow protocol... I don't buy it. If you are working with an ebola patient in the most infectious stages of the illness, you are not going to be sloppy with your own safety.

Compound this with the fact that many health workers in the front line in West Africa have died of the disease. In Liberia it is reported that 25% of the deaths are health workers and only have 250 doctors left in the country.

I don't think the protective equipment is enough to stop the transmission and may already be airborne and all they seem to be using are paper masks...... Not enough.

Also don't forget the worst material for contamination is faeces, and we all know how hygienic the Thais are when they go to the toilet. They clean themselves with their hand and cold water and then come out of the toilet and continue to prepare your food, such as chopping your salad etc.....

If it gets to Thailand it can spread like a bush fire with these practices. You going to be able to educate an entire country of people who have been doing it the Thai way for centuries to stop doing it the Thai way?

Your claims regarding the CDC are both unfounded and without merit. If you have proof, verifiable proof, for these statements of yours please share them with us all. If you do not then all we can do is take them as your own personal opinion and therefore only worth a listen to and nothing more. For there are no "escape goats" or anyone being labeled as being one here. Remember that we are all human and we all make mistakes no matter what the situation.

Breaking protocols is not as difficult as you might think... ever run that Yellow light just before it turns Red just to save a second or two? If you have then you have broken a protocol which increased your chances of hitting someone and maybe even getting killed or killing that other person and maybe even causing a chain reaction impacting others. As far as the virus verging on the point of becoming "airborne"... well it already is sort of... by getting on a plane and traveling across the globe! If you want to panic... I would say that that would be good point to start from. But then again... what will panicking solve? Which is really the response I had for the original poster.

The difficulty is that in the areas where it is now so prevalent is an area where sanitation, living conditions, poor hygiene, poverty, and poor education levels/conditions exist. Furthermore, we have an air transport system that opens the 'door' to the virus spreading across the globe if given the chance. This virus is a living organism and as such has its own set of rules to follow, rules that we have to understand completely so that we can it fight more effectively. For at present we are using 'tried and true' methods that we have learned from past outbreaks. The inclusion of the UK and US naval assets now being sent will certainly improve matters, but it is too early to know to what extent those improvements will have on the outbreak. We have brought new medications to the fight and we are still waiting to see how effective (if at all) they may be. We are reaching out to an already frightened population who have an even lesser understanding of what needs to be done than we hoped for. We have not enough assets there, and we are dealing with local governments that historically have little real interest in their peoples and are not willing to commit their own forces which have always been needed.

What we need is a global involvement from every country not just the usual 2 nations (the French Doctors Without Borders is not a French government entity) and to shut down the flights in and out of the area and continued screening processes at all airports... not just the international ones. Now some would say that that this will only have a "limited effect" (BBC this morning), but "limited" is better than nothing at all!

Thailand does have hygiene issues and in many places share a good number of conditions of those that are ever present in West Africa. However, to a far lesser extent. If you have ever been to those West African nations you will know what I mean. I actually worry more about India than Thailand or anywhere in SEA. But then, who from West Africa wants to go to India is the question. Will Thailand see its first case of the virus? Maybe. The chances are anyone's guess right now as the ramifications and the ability of the virus to spread, the doors it has to do so, and because it is very difficult to monitor any of it... well... in fact the chances are there.

But the environment here in Thailand for this virus to spread as it has done in Africa are not the same. It would be very difficult for the virus to get a hold due to the very nature of the Thai culture. You mention the washing of hands and then "cooking your food". Well as I have been to those African countries in the past with the UN I can tell you categorically that at least here they actually wash their hands (in cold water or not and remember that the soup that is used here is just as good in cold water as in hot)! At least there is a sanitation system that does not simply spill out into a surface exposed trough in the middle of the street and garbage is picked up daily in purpose built vehicles.

The CDC and its equivalent organizations in other countries are all we, 'civilians' have in the war against Ebola (which is what this effort should be called) so let us not 'knock them', but rather do all we can to help them even if that means sitting back with Hope.

Rubbish.

I didn't read past the first 2 paragraphs.

Another 'breech of protocol'?????

Or is it REALLY a lot more contagious that the CDC are trying to make out?

For your perusal

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/768570-ebola-outbreak-second-texas-health-worker-tests-positive/?p=8537543

Yes another positive case in Texas where obviously conditions must be squalid and unsanitary.

The truth is.. The CDC have been playing down the seriousness of how easy it is to catch this virus and yet have been saying all along that it is VERY DIFFICULT TO CATCH!!!........ FACT!

So seems in the light of evidence we have before us on the table it is in fact VERY EASY TO CATCH.....

Also many world leaders in ebola virology have NOT been echoing the CDC's thoughts.

The difficulty is that in the areas where it is now so prevalent is an area where sanitation, living conditions, poor hygiene, poverty, and poor education levels/conditions

So this is how you describe Dallas, Texas then??????

This is not where I get all my info from, but I do tend to avoid the mainstream controlled press.

Regarding panic.... The first place we will see that is the USA. That will probably be the first country to over-react and go into social meltdown.

The main problem here is... The CDC have acted far too late, and still the US borders are open to West African travellers.... The CDC is trying to stop an earthquake while it is happening and blaming everyone else apart from itself for the failures.

I am waiting for the statement to come out saying ;we were wrong' if it ever does.... But it is probably too late now and it will be too late then.

Edited October 15, 2014 by wackybacky

[Jingthing]

There is political talk in the U.S. now about travel restrictions from west Africa. I'm surprised Thailand isn't considering this yet. Mostly my understanding is that it won't help and may even hurt, but from a political (do something!) POV I can see the appeal.

but it would put another dent in the tourist arrival numbers....

I think most of the arrivals from that region are traders ... but perhaps they are counted the same as tourists, just as visa runners have been.

[ukrules]

I read yesterday that Nina Pham's boyfriend is the new case in Dallas. It wasn't clear if he was involved with the care of Thomas Duncan or whether this is a secondary infection passed on from Nina to this unnamed guy.

However they do both work for the same company. There were / are photos of an internal memo which was sent to company staff.

[wackybacky]

I read yesterday that Nina Pham's boyfriend is the new case in Dallas. It wasn't clear if he was involved with the care of Thomas Duncan or whether this is a secondary infection passed on from Nina to this unnamed guy.

However they do both work for the same company. There were / are photos of an internal memo which was sent to company staff.

No, I think he works for a company called Alcon which is based in Fort Worth a pharmaceutical company I believe.

I don't think he was the one that has occurred today, they specifically said health care worker who treated the Index patient.

As I understand it... so far it is 3 infected (one dead) and one suspected (boyfirend).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=befgvCIQ5lA

Seems he was one of the 76 workers who were caring for the index patient and he was only just isolated when he got the symptoms and tested positive.... Even more cause for concern that it is NOT that protocols are not being followed... The CDC protocols are all wrong for this situation. What was his status up till now?????

When are they going to put their hands up and say 'we were wrong'?????

Edited October 15, 2014 by wackybacky

[ukrules]

You're right, Nina Pham is the nurse, her parents and her boyfriend work at Alcon.

Full details here including a shot of the memo : http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1018543-nina-pham-boyfriend-ebola-nurse-boyfriend-admitted-to-hospital-with-ebola-like-symptoms/

[IsaanUSA]

wacky, how about having 2+ gasoline cans. Fill them all up at first, then keep cycling them into your car/truck's gas tank.

I'm a bit confused?... sorry.

I won't be driving my car, if it is a lockdown situation.

You know, gasoline isn't only used for cars.

Quick explanation of having 2+ gas cans: First fill up both gas cans and take them home. Gas doesn't last forever, so you have to use it. As your car gets low on gas, fill it up with one of the cans at your house. When your car needs more gas, take the empty gas can and fill up your car plus gas can. Go home. As your car gets low on gas, fill up with the older gasoline from the can. When your car needs more gas, take the empty gas can and fill up your car plus gas can. Go home. As your car gets low on gas, fill up with the older gasoline from the can. When your car needs more gas, take the empty gas can and fill up your car plus gas can. Go home. As your car gets low on gas, fill up with the older gasoline from the can. When your car needs more gas, take the empty gas can and fill up your car plus gas can. Go home. As your car gets low on gas, fill up with the older gasoline from the can.

That way you always have extra gasoline at home.

[JDGRUEN]

This is a case of too much information gathering. Fear of Ebola though warranted, should not consume every waking moment of one's life.

Yes, it is a situation that has to be dealt with on a global scale, at least regarding the precautions that should be taken to minimize its traveling to other countries (like shut down all air traffic to and from the Western Africa locations now fighting the outbreak would be a good start). But it has to be remembered that the virus's incubation time is 10 to 14 days and so we may not know that anyone is ill right away. So the world had better get geared up... just in case and be able to act quickly.

But here in Thailand, fighting the spread of this virus if it hits land here might be difficult. Even though the Thai medical people say that they have discovered a way to combat this virus, we have seen what they were able to do with the Koh Tao killings... so perhaps we should not take too much stock in that claim... just yet.

However, this country is far better off than West African states. There is a far greater sense of personal hygiene here and although there is trash in the streets and not every surface is cleaned as in the West, Thailand is far from being Liberia (if you have been there you will know what I mean).

So though fear of the virus is a good thing, panic is not. The cases in the EU and the US are from protocols not being followed to the letter within the isolation wards. But vigilantes has to be maintained and the CDC has to monitor the situation and the drug firms have to get the lead out and get the drugs to those that need them and the "Untested" issues be damned.

Many many experts are already saying that ebola is poised (if not already) to go airborne as is incredibly likely to do so. The ONLY organization that is denying it has or is likely to is the CDC.

The CDC are also scapegoating the nurse who has now contracted it, by saying she didn't follow protocol... I don't buy it. If you are working with an ebola patient in the most infectious stages of the illness, you are not going to be sloppy with your own safety.

Compound this with the fact that many health workers in the front line in West Africa have died of the disease. In Liberia it is reported that 25% of the deaths are health workers and only have 250 doctors left in the country.

I don't think the protective equipment is enough to stop the transmission and may already be airborne and all they seem to be using are paper masks...... Not enough.

Also don't forget the worst material for contamination is faeces, and we all know how hygienic the Thais are when they go to the toilet. They clean themselves with their hand and cold water and then come out of the toilet and continue to prepare your food, such as chopping your salad etc.....

If it gets to Thailand it can spread like a bush fire with these practices. You going to be able to educate an entire country of people who have been doing it the Thai way for centuries to stop doing it the Thai way?

Your claims regarding the CDC are both unfounded and without merit. If you have proof, verifiable proof, for these statements of yours please share them with us all. If you do not then all we can do is take them as your own personal opinion and therefore only worth a listen to and nothing more. For there are no "escape goats" or anyone being labeled as being one here. Remember that we are all human and we all make mistakes no matter what the situation.

Breaking protocols is not as difficult as you might think... ever run that Yellow light just before it turns Red just to save a second or two? If you have then you have broken a protocol which increased your chances of hitting someone and maybe even getting killed or killing that other person and maybe even causing a chain reaction impacting others. As far as the virus verging on the point of becoming "airborne"... well it already is sort of... by getting on a plane and traveling across the globe! If you want to panic... I would say that that would be good point to start from. But then again... what will panicking solve? Which is really the response I had for the original poster.

The difficulty is that in the areas where it is now so prevalent is an area where sanitation, living conditions, poor hygiene, poverty, and poor education levels/conditions exist. Furthermore, we have an air transport system that opens the 'door' to the virus spreading across the globe if given the chance. This virus is a living organism and as such has its own set of rules to follow, rules that we have to understand completely so that we can it fight more effectively. For at present we are using 'tried and true' methods that we have learned from past outbreaks. The inclusion of the UK and US naval assets now being sent will certainly improve matters, but it is too early to know to what extent those improvements will have on the outbreak. We have brought new medications to the fight and we are still waiting to see how effective (if at all) they may be. We are reaching out to an already frightened population who have an even lesser understanding of what needs to be done than we hoped for. We have not enough assets there, and we are dealing with local governments that historically have little real interest in their peoples and are not willing to commit their own forces which have always been needed.

What we need is a global involvement from every country not just the usual 2 nations (the French Doctors Without Borders is not a French government entity) and to shut down the flights in and out of the area and continued screening processes at all airports... not just the international ones. Now some would say that that this will only have a "limited effect" (BBC this morning), but "limited" is better than nothing at all!

Thailand does have hygiene issues and in many places share a good number of conditions of those that are ever present in West Africa. However, to a far lesser extent. If you have ever been to those West African nations you will know what I mean. I actually worry more about India than Thailand or anywhere in SEA. But then, who from West Africa wants to go to India is the question. Will Thailand see its first case of the virus? Maybe. The chances are anyone's guess right now as the ramifications and the ability of the virus to spread, the doors it has to do so, and because it is very difficult to monitor any of it... well... in fact the chances are there.

But the environment here in Thailand for this virus to spread as it has done in Africa are not the same. It would be very difficult for the virus to get a hold due to the very nature of the Thai culture. You mention the washing of hands and then "cooking your food". Well as I have been to those African countries in the past with the UN I can tell you categorically that at least here they actually wash their hands (in cold water or not and remember that the soup that is used here is just as good in cold water as in hot)! At least there is a sanitation system that does not simply spill out into a surface exposed trough in the middle of the street and garbage is picked up daily in purpose built vehicles.

The CDC and its equivalent organizations in other countries are all we, 'civilians' have in the war against Ebola (which is what this effort should be called) so let us not 'knock them', but rather do all we can to help them even if that means sitting back with Hope.

Rubbish.

I didn't read past the first 2 paragraphs.

Another 'breech of protocol'?????

Or is it REALLY a lot more contagious that the CDC are trying to make out?

For your perusal

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/768570-ebola-outbreak-second-texas-health-worker-tests-positive/?p=8537543

Yes another positive case in Texas where obviously conditions must be squalid and unsanitary.

The truth is.. The CDC have been playing down the seriousness of how easy it is to catch this virus and yet have been saying all along that it is VERY DIFFICULT TO CATCH!!!........ FACT!

So seems in the light of evidence we have before us on the table it is in fact VERY EASY TO CATCH.....

Also many world leaders in ebola virology have NOT been echoing the CDC's thoughts.

The difficulty is that in the areas where it is now so prevalent is an area where sanitation, living conditions, poor hygiene, poverty, and poor education levels/conditions

So this is how you describe Dallas, Texas then??????

This is not where I get all my info from, but I do tend to avoid the mainstream controlled press.

Regarding panic.... The first place we will see that is the USA. That will probably be the first country to over-react and go into social meltdown.

The main problem here is... The CDC have acted far too late, and still the US borders are open to West African travellers.... The CDC is trying to stop an earthquake while it is happening and blaming everyone else apart from itself for the failures.

I am waiting for the statement to come out saying ;we were wrong' if it ever does.... But it is probably too late now and it will be too late then.

I posted a news report today about the nurse's union revealing that Duncan's potentially contaminated waste / trash was piled almost to the ceiling in his ICU room... ClutchClark has pointed out on another thread that this piled up contaminated waste may have contributed to the two health care workers becoming infected... Not provable - but seems quite plausible ... The link about the union nurses complaint of piled up waste is in the original Duncan thread - posted today...

[wackybacky]

Many many experts are already saying that ebola is poised (if not already) to go airborne as is incredibly likely to do so. The ONLY organization that is denying it has or is likely to is the CDC.

The CDC are also scapegoating the nurse who has now contracted it, by saying she didn't follow protocol... I don't buy it. If you are working with an ebola patient in the most infectious stages of the illness, you are not going to be sloppy with your own safety.

Compound this with the fact that many health workers in the front line in West Africa have died of the disease. In Liberia it is reported that 25% of the deaths are health workers and only have 250 doctors left in the country.

I don't think the protective equipment is enough to stop the transmission and may already be airborne and all they seem to be using are paper masks...... Not enough.

Also don't forget the worst material for contamination is faeces, and we all know how hygienic the Thais are when they go to the toilet. They clean themselves with their hand and cold water and then come out of the toilet and continue to prepare your food, such as chopping your salad etc.....

If it gets to Thailand it can spread like a bush fire with these practices. You going to be able to educate an entire country of people who have been doing it the Thai way for centuries to stop doing it the Thai way?

Your claims regarding the CDC are both unfounded and without merit. If you have proof, verifiable proof, for these statements of yours please share them with us all. If you do not then all we can do is take them as your own personal opinion and therefore only worth a listen to and nothing more. For there are no "escape goats" or anyone being labeled as being one here. Remember that we are all human and we all make mistakes no matter what the situation.

Breaking protocols is not as difficult as you might think... ever run that Yellow light just before it turns Red just to save a second or two? If you have then you have broken a protocol which increased your chances of hitting someone and maybe even getting killed or killing that other person and maybe even causing a chain reaction impacting others. As far as the virus verging on the point of becoming "airborne"... well it already is sort of... by getting on a plane and traveling across the globe! If you want to panic... I would say that that would be good point to start from. But then again... what will panicking solve? Which is really the response I had for the original poster.

The difficulty is that in the areas where it is now so prevalent is an area where sanitation, living conditions, poor hygiene, poverty, and poor education levels/conditions exist. Furthermore, we have an air transport system that opens the 'door' to the virus spreading across the globe if given the chance. This virus is a living organism and as such has its own set of rules to follow, rules that we have to understand completely so that we can it fight more effectively. For at present we are using 'tried and true' methods that we have learned from past outbreaks. The inclusion of the UK and US naval assets now being sent will certainly improve matters, but it is too early to know to what extent those improvements will have on the outbreak. We have brought new medications to the fight and we are still waiting to see how effective (if at all) they may be. We are reaching out to an already frightened population who have an even lesser understanding of what needs to be done than we hoped for. We have not enough assets there, and we are dealing with local governments that historically have little real interest in their peoples and are not willing to commit their own forces which have always been needed.

What we need is a global involvement from every country not just the usual 2 nations (the French Doctors Without Borders is not a French government entity) and to shut down the flights in and out of the area and continued screening processes at all airports... not just the international ones. Now some would say that that this will only have a "limited effect" (BBC this morning), but "limited" is better than nothing at all!

Thailand does have hygiene issues and in many places share a good number of conditions of those that are ever present in West Africa. However, to a far lesser extent. If you have ever been to those West African nations you will know what I mean. I actually worry more about India than Thailand or anywhere in SEA. But then, who from West Africa wants to go to India is the question. Will Thailand see its first case of the virus? Maybe. The chances are anyone's guess right now as the ramifications and the ability of the virus to spread, the doors it has to do so, and because it is very difficult to monitor any of it... well... in fact the chances are there.

But the environment here in Thailand for this virus to spread as it has done in Africa are not the same. It would be very difficult for the virus to get a hold due to the very nature of the Thai culture. You mention the washing of hands and then "cooking your food". Well as I have been to those African countries in the past with the UN I can tell you categorically that at least here they actually wash their hands (in cold water or not and remember that the soup that is used here is just as good in cold water as in hot)! At least there is a sanitation system that does not simply spill out into a surface exposed trough in the middle of the street and garbage is picked up daily in purpose built vehicles.

The CDC and its equivalent organizations in other countries are all we, 'civilians' have in the war against Ebola (which is what this effort should be called) so let us not 'knock them', but rather do all we can to help them even if that means sitting back with Hope.

Rubbish.

I didn't read past the first 2 paragraphs.

Another 'breech of protocol'?????

Or is it REALLY a lot more contagious that the CDC are trying to make out?

For your perusal

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/768570-ebola-outbreak-second-texas-health-worker-tests-positive/?p=8537543

Yes another positive case in Texas where obviously conditions must be squalid and unsanitary.

The truth is.. The CDC have been playing down the seriousness of how easy it is to catch this virus and yet have been saying all along that it is VERY DIFFICULT TO CATCH!!!........ FACT!

So seems in the light of evidence we have before us on the table it is in fact VERY EASY TO CATCH.....

Also many world leaders in ebola virology have NOT been echoing the CDC's thoughts.

The difficulty is that in the areas where it is now so prevalent is an area where sanitation, living conditions, poor hygiene, poverty, and poor education levels/conditions

So this is how you describe Dallas, Texas then??????

This is not where I get all my info from, but I do tend to avoid the mainstream controlled press.

Regarding panic.... The first place we will see that is the USA. That will probably be the first country to over-react and go into social meltdown.

The main problem here is... The CDC have acted far too late, and still the US borders are open to West African travellers.... The CDC is trying to stop an earthquake while it is happening and blaming everyone else apart from itself for the failures.

I am waiting for the statement to come out saying ;we were wrong' if it ever does.... But it is probably too late now and it will be too late then.

I posted a news report today about the nurse's union revealing that Duncan's potentially contaminated waste / trash was piled almost to the ceiling in his ICU room... ClutchClark has pointed out on another thread that this piled up contaminated waste may have contributed to the two health care workers becoming infected... Not provable - but seems quite plausible ... The link about the union nurses complaint of piled up waste is in the original Duncan thread - posted today...

The big question on everyone's lips is this within CDC protocol or was it in relation to the lack of protocol on the behalf of CDC.

To be quite honest.... CDC protocol should be a total ban on all flights from west Africa..... we will see this happen soon, but as normal..... trying to stop an earthquake while it is happening, and then blaming all failures onto others.

The real facts are that all the CDC have done since being first told in December last year is to tell hospitals in the USA 'to gear up'..... Well I am sorry but that is not good enough.

The CDC have been caught napping and they deserve the blame for an outbreak on US soil.

Edited October 15, 2014 by wackybacky

[wackybacky]

Latest news release from CDC.... it may get worse before it gets better... but it will bet better.

COME ON!!!!!!!!!!

[thailiketoo]

I posted a news report today about the nurse's union revealing that Duncan's potentially contaminated waste / trash was piled almost to the ceiling in his ICU room... ClutchClark has pointed out on another thread that this piled up contaminated waste may have contributed to the two health care workers becoming infected... Not provable - but seems quite plausible ... The link about the union nurses complaint of piled up waste is in the original Duncan thread - posted today...

The big question on everyone's lips is this within CDC protocol or was it in relation to the lack of protocol on the behalf of CDC.

To be quite honest.... CDC protocol should be a total ban on all flights from west Africa..... we will see this happen soon, but as normal..... trying to stop an earthquake while it is happening, and then blaming all failures onto others.

The real facts are that all the CDC have done since being first told in December last year is to tell hospitals in the USA 'to gear up'..... Well I am sorry but that is not good enough.

The CDC have been caught napping and they deserve the blame for an outbreak on US soil.

It seems so obvious but like so many posters on Thai Visa Obama is the victim of misplaced nationalism and won't do what is obviously the answer.

[bkkcanuck8]

The big question on everyone's lips is this within CDC protocol or was it in relation to the lack of protocol on the behalf of CDC.

To be quite honest.... CDC protocol should be a total ban on all flights from west Africa..... we will see this happen soon, but as normal..... trying to stop an earthquake while it is happening, and then blaming all failures onto others.

The real facts are that all the CDC have done since being first told in December last year is to tell hospitals in the USA 'to gear up'..... Well I am sorry but that is not good enough.

The CDC have been caught napping and they deserve the blame for an outbreak on US soil.

The only thing that the CDC has authority in and could be held solely responsible for is not quarantining sick people entering the US.

The CDC (federal organization) is responsible for acting to prevent entry of communicable diseases into the US, quarantine people that are sick at the time of entry. It is also mandated to take measures to prevent spread of communicable diseases between states. So protocols on flying after exposure would be within their domain. They MAY assist state and local authorities in preventing the spread of communicable diseases. The CDC are not the ones in charge of local hospital protocols. If the CDC has higher recommended standards than the hospital, it would be wise for the hospital to follow CDC recommendations. The CDC does not have authority over local hospitals. If the hospital has higher standards than the CDC then all the better.

Basically, it is the local hospital and potentially state authorities in charge of that hospital that are to blame for the poor response of the hospital to this crisis. They have shown themselves to be extremely incompetent in dealing with infections diseases. So incompetent that if I were them I would be worried that this lapse may just be too financially burdensome to survive after the eventual lawsuits are launched.

I think people are overstating the CDCs mandate.

[thailiketoo]

I don't know about the CDC but I do know that the PM in Thailand can stop air travel from the infected countries.

[h90]

There is political talk in the U.S. now about travel restrictions from west Africa. I'm surprised Thailand isn't considering this yet. Mostly my understanding is that it won't help and may even hurt, but from a political (do something!) POV I can see the appeal.

but it would put another dent in the tourist arrival numbers....

I think most of the arrivals from that region are traders ... but perhaps they are counted the same as tourists, just as visa runners have been.

of course they are counted as tourists....

And surely there are also tourists.....

Even if there aren't many if you exclude a complete region it will show in the statistics.

But well maybe I am just thinking too much and Thailand is just not doing anything because the responsible person don't know about Ebola and can't find Africa on the map.....