EC Guilty!

[Artisan]

There appears to be a conflict of opinion between the leader of the TRT party and the deputy leader. Wouldn't you think that they would get their act together at this crucial phase in Thai politics?

Following the interpretation by the Council of State, caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra affirmed with reporters that the three EC members had lost their status and the process to select a new EC could begin right away.

Thaksin said he believed the Supreme Court already had its choices of EC commissioners so the process to select a new EC would not take longer than a month.

and then we have a report from the Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department........

The deputy head of the Thai Rak Thai party states that the legal proceedings against the members of the Election Commission has not been finalised yet.

Mr. Pongtep stated that the incident in which the Criminal Court arrived at verdicts entailing imprisonment for each of the members of the Election Commission was not yet final, and that the situation warranted further observation as to whether the sentences will be carried out or not.

[jascopj]

What did they do exactly?

[Thaising]

Now the verdict has been melted out to the three EC. Let us watch what square face next steps was. He may still have some trump cards deep in his pocket and anytime from now he can twist his tongue like a cobra snake that is ready to counter-attack.

[jaapfries]

I have been following this court case and many others with great interest. This is really a great result IMO.

I think the the non suspension of the jail sentences will aid in turning the convicted into willing informants against those who co=opted them these many years. Really great news.

Positive change is purifying, whether it be in government agencies or elsewhere. Strikes a blow against those that think because something has "always been that way" things can't get better.

================================================================

Right on ! Lannarebirth; I couldn't concur more.

Especially when you state: "I think the the non suspension of the jail sentences will aid in turning the convicted into willing informants against those who co=opted them these many years. Really great news." - I am almost boiling-over with excitement and anxious anticipation; wouldn't it be superb justice to see "Big-T"'s arrogant and greedy face behind bars ?!

As we have observed again; "The Wheels Of Justice Turn Slowly, But TURN, they do ! ! ! !

This no doubt gives great relieve also to our highly esteemed King: praying for His soonest and fullest recovery.

JGK

Pattaya

[deminister]

Yes the only great news is that it is clear that we live in a Banana Repuboc, where the judiciary sides with the most influential people. If Shinawatra is strong they chose him, if Shinawatra is attacked by higher forces they follow that.

I have been following this court case and many others with great interest. This is really a great result IMO.

I think the the non suspension of the jail sentences will aid in turning the convicted into willing informants against those who co=opted them these many years. Really great news.

Positive change is purifying, whether it be in government agencies or elsewhere. Strikes a blow against those that think because something has "always been that way" things can't get better.

[tpthai2]

I have been following this court case and many others with great interest. This is really a great result IMO.

I think the the non suspension of the jail sentences will aid in turning the convicted into willing informants against those who co=opted them these many years. Really great news.

Positive change is purifying, whether it be in government agencies or elsewhere. Strikes a blow against those that think because something has "always been that way" things can't get better.

================================================================

Right on ! Lannarebirth; I couldn't concur more.

Especially when you state: "I think the the non suspension of the jail sentences will aid in turning the convicted into willing informants against those who co=opted them these many years. Really great news." - I am almost boiling-over with excitement and anxious anticipation; wouldn't it be superb justice to see "Big-T"'s arrogant and greedy face behind bars ?!

As we have observed again; "The Wheels Of Justice Turn Slowly, But TURN, they do ! ! ! !

This no doubt gives great relieve also to our highly esteemed King: praying for His soonest and fullest recovery.

JGK

Pattaya

[jaapfries]

Wow and the World is watching

the CIA better change their credit rating on Thailand

now it says stable democratic country

NOT

I dont see this as a positive move I see it as another straw to break the back.

It shows this country is not politically stable

Add this to all the other nonsense thats gone on over the past 5 years and Thailand really needs to pull a rabbit out of the hat or else OS investment will go to Malaysia and Vietnam

Its already started in case you dont read the papers

================================================================

What the heck are you rambling-n about "BlackJack" ? ? ? ?

The events of today do show, with crystal clear clarity, that "DEMOCRACY" is most certainly alive & well (albeit slow, slow, slow) in this great country ! ! ! ! Either get some new reading glasses or ask a neighbour to explain how 2 + 2 often make 4, okay ?

Duuuuuh !

[slimdog]

A few answers to some of the questions asked:

What did they do ?

The main crime for which they were convicted was not requesting a Royal decree prior to the 23rd April re-run of the general election, which is in violation of the MPs and Senators Election Act.

Why was the charge of violating the criminal code rejected ?

Only people who have been criminally wronged may bring a charge citing the criminal code, as the Democrat Party boycotted the election, Thavorn Sennium had no authority to cite the code. If the same charge had been cited by a voter or candidate in one of the constituancies in question then they would have had the authority.

Can the Supreme Court select a new Election Commission ?

No. The process is that with the absence of a selection panel, the Supreme Court now has the authority to nominate 10 individuals for the Election Commission. Once the individuals have been selected then the names are then handed over to the Senate, who will form a series of panels to ensure that the nominated individuals are eligable to be Election Commissioners. Once all 10 have been approved then the Senate gets to vote on who is elected and who is not. The process is that each Senator will decide whether to vote for one of the nominee's or not. After all the Senate has voted, any nominee who has received more than 50% of the vote becomes an Election Commissioner. If after the vote, there are still seats available then the Senate votes again with the remaining nominee's, and this will continue until such time as all 5 seats are taken. Should more than 5 people get more than the 50% minimum votes, then the 5 with the highest number of votes are selected.

This is the reason that the Supreme Court is waiting for the Senate Speaker to request a list of nominee's.

[tracer0]

What the heck are you rambling-n about "BlackJack" ? ? ? ?

The events of today do show, with crystal clear clarity, that "DEMOCRACY" is most certainly alive & well (albeit slow, slow, slow) in this great country ! ! ! ! Either get some new reading glasses or ask a neighbour to explain how 2 + 2 often make 4, okay ?

Duuuuuh !

With Mr T never if he wants to have a different answer.

So problems arent over and I would strongly recommend that as farang visitors we let the Thais sort this mess out themselves.

Donot forget Takson isnt just worried about being prime minister, what about all the illegal things done, land bought in Phuket and other Places... (someone told me loads of water reservoirs were bought by his son in Buriram)).

He sure will realise if he hasnt got power, there will be demands to grab all that illegal stuff he assembled....

There will be obstacles... Otherwise he will be the emperor without clothes..(g)

[tracer0]

A few answers to some of the questions asked:

What did they do ?

The main crime for which they were convicted was not requesting a Royal decree prior to the 23rd April re-run of the general election, which is in violation of the MPs and Senators Election Act.

Why was the charge of violating the criminal code rejected ?

Only people who have been criminally wronged may bring a charge citing the criminal code, as the Democrat Party boycotted the election, Thavorn Sennium had no authority to cite the code. If the same charge had been cited by a voter or candidate in one of the constituancies in question then they would have had the authority.

=====================

Can someone still complain??

========================

[sriracha john]

Bangkok Herald-Examiner

Election Commission chairman Vasana Puemlarp arrives to court while coincidentally humming a favorite song of his, the closing theme song from the old Lawerence Welk Show:

Good night, sleep tight and pleasant dreams to you...

"Here's a wish and a prayer that every dream comes true...

And now 'till we meet again,

Adios, Au Revoir, Auf wiedersehn

GOODNIGHT EVERYONE! "

[slimdog]

Tracer0

To answer your question: Yes.

A lawsuit was filed just a few days ago in Songkhla:

EC sued to repay Bt2.3 bn to state

Songkhla - An activist Monday filed an administrative lawsuit demanding the Election Commission to reimburse Bt2.3 billion to state coffers for the botched vote and pay another Bt3 billion in compensation to 10 million voters.

Kriangsak Liuchanpattana, also supporter of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), lodged his case with the Songkhla Provincial Administrative Court.

"I want the EC to bear financial responsibilities incurred from the botched April 2 vote," he said.

He called on eligible voters to join him in demanding for compensation by filling out a form verifying travelling expenses to and from balloting stations as well as lost earnings due to voting obligation.

He said his estimate for compensation was computed from an average cost of Bt200 per voter.

The Nation

However as the Former Commissioners are now out of the picture, it is unlikely that the courts will accept any new complaints unless they address an issue that has not already been filed.

Edited July 25, 2006 by slimdog

[womble]

Yes the only great news is that it is clear that we live in a Banana Repuboc, where the judiciary sides with the most influential people. If Shinawatra is strong they chose him, if Shinawatra is attacked by higher forces they follow that. The Thai court is a big joke.

Well this time they made the correct choise, these guys are so guilty it's ridiculous. So the courts arn't taking sides, they are actually making the right choise to get Thailand back on track.

[ratcatcher]

EC Commissioners arrive at Bangkok Remand Prison

Three Election Commissioners arrived at Bangkok Remand Prison in Lad Yao on Tuesday evening after the Appeal Court rejected their request to release them on bail.

The three convicted; EC chairman Vasana Puemlarp, EC members Prinya Nakchadtree and Virachai Naewboonnien arrived in a white van at about 7pm. It is reported that they then went through registration process and were led to their cells. The prison ordered them dinner from a restaurant near the prison.

It is reported that they would receive no priviledge as they would have to change from their clothes to brown prison uniforms. In their cells, the prison prepare personal items for them, such as toothbrush, soap and towel. They would have to get up at 6am like other inmates.

It is not known yet how long they would stay behind bars. Their lawyers said they would submit to the Supreme Court on Wednesday a request to free them on bail.

Under Thai law, once jailed, the commissioners lose their right to retain their posts.

The Criminal Court found the group guilty of malfeasance for mishandling the April 2 snap election and subsequent election. Their election rights were also stripped of for ten years.

The Nation

The end of a chapter. Stay tuned for the next exciting installment.

Edited July 25, 2006 by ratcatcher

[sriracha john]

*duplicate post of ratcatcher's*

EC Commissioners arrive at Bangkok Remand Prison

It is reported that they would receive no priviledge as they would have to change from their clothes to brown prison uniforms.

Edited July 25, 2006 by sriracha john

[John K]

Go to jail, go directly to jail. Do not pass GO, do not collect $200

I agree to watch Thaksin, he is up to something I am sure. If he is acting like it does not bother him then his backup plan is in place, if he is not to be seen then he is being a busy boy.

Per post #20

“Prinya insists three EC commissioners' status still valid.”

Rough translation: “Yo! Theys our homeboys and theys watch out for us and we watch out for thems!”

At any rate good news for sure.

[stumonster]

EC Commissioners arrive at Bangkok Remand Prison

The prison ordered them dinner from a restaurant near the prison.

It is reported that they would receive no priviledge

you wonder if this is a translation error ..... or a common occurance ?

this has been a bit of an unexpected occurance - has mr 't's missus been out of town ?

if th jailed EC start spelling out names and numbers the court cases could continue for the next 20 years

[asd]

This night, They have to sleep in this here.

"Bangkok Remand Prison"

July 25, 2006

18.40 PM

In front of Bangkok Remand Prison.

They were welcomed the three commissioenrs in front of Bangkok Remand Prison.

EC chairman Vasana Puemlarp, EC members Prinya Nakchadtree and Virachai Naewboonnien were controlled by policemen in this white van.

You can contact them at here.

Address

Bangkok Remand Prison

33 Ngam-wong-wan Road,

Lad-yao,Jatujak, Bangkok 10900 , THAILAND

E-mail     [email protected]

Telephone   66-2-591-7060  Contact  24

Facsimile     66-2-588-4023

-----------------------------------------------------

Bangkok Remand Prison

E1.htm4.gif

Brief History

"Bangkok Remand Prison"  had been establised in 1890 at Trokkam District,Mahachai Road,during the perod of King Rama V. Its first name was "Prison for Serious Crime". Later,the prison's name was changed into "Klong Prem Central Prison ( Petty Offense )"

At present, Bangkok Remand Prison is located on Ngam-vong-wan Road where the Bang Khen Correctional for young Offenders used to be located. The prison's territory has been expanded so as to serve the increasing number of prisoners.

 

Bangkok Remand Prison is responsible for taking in custody of offenders in Bangkok Metropolitan area. Prison Population includes inmates awaiting investigation, inmates awaiting trial, and convicted prisoners whose sentence term not exceeding 5 years.

Prison Administration

The organization administration of Bangkok Remand Prison basically composes of 7 main sections:

                    1.  General Administration Section

                    2.  Custody Section

                    3.  Inmates' Transportation section

                    4.  Prisoner Development Section

                    5.  Prisoner's Welfare Section

                    6.  Penal Administration Section

                    7.  Nursing Home

 

Treatment Programs for Inmates

Education

      Bangkok Remand Prison has its intention to rehabilitate the inmates; so that they can reintegrate to their society as good citizen after release. Adult Education Programs are provided to inmates in the "Bangkok Adult School" established within the prison. Educational programs consist of:

                   

1.  Formal Education Program,

                    2.  Vocational Education Program,

                    3.  Religious Education Program, and

                    4.  University Education Program.

Vocational Training

Vocational training programs provided for inmates within Bangkok Remand prison are:

                    1.  Furniture Work

                    2.  Sculptural Art

                    3.  Basketry

                    4.  Lapidary

                    5.  Wood Carving

                    6.  Engine Repair

                    7.  Metal Welding

                    8.  Cement Tile Work

                    9.  Agriculture

                  10.  Arts

Inmates' Daily Routine

                    06.00 h.           Unlocked - personal activity

                    07.00 h.           Breakfast

                    08.00 h            National anthem flag ceremony - Roll call

                    08.30 h            Attending vocational training, education program, and prison works

                    12.00 h            Lunch

                    13.00 h            Attending vocational training, education program, and prison works

                    15.00 h            Personal activity

                    16.00 h            Dinner

                    16.30 h            Locked-up

                    20.00 h            Watching Television

                    21.00 h             Prayer or Meditation - Sleeping time

Health Services

    Within Bangkok Remand prison, there is a nursing home with its capacity of 50 in - patient beds. One full-time medical doctor and 12 medical staff are responsible for inmate' health service. In case of serious sickness of emergency, sick prisoners shall be referred to the Central Correctional Hospital located within the adjacent prison.

More Information : http://www.geocities.com/bkprison/E1.htm

Sweet dream (^-^) ... The three commissioenrs  

[John K]

Keep in mind this is just one victory in the war. Also don’t forget the EC was a tool of the real problem. This is just like taking out a piece of field artillery and not the whole army. The vote in the north is what counts come election day. I would be curious to know how they feel about this development. Even more so on what they think about losing out on all the money that was skimmed by corruption, some 10000 ThB per person per year according to the government numbers.

[tettyan]

Yes the only great news is that it is clear that we live in a Banana Repuboc, where the judiciary sides with the most influential people. If Shinawatra is strong they chose him, if Shinawatra is attacked by higher forces they follow that. The Thai court is a big joke.

Really? What exactly do you mean by "higher forces"? Please enlighten us further.

[sriracha john]

This night, They have to sleep in this here.

Sweet dream (^-^) ... The three commissioenrs  

Just to add.... there are SEVEN THOUSAND PRISONERS at the Bangkok Remand Prison.

Sweet dreams, commissioners... indeed. Just don't sleep too soundly and oh yes... one more pointer... don't sleep on your stomach...

[Greer]

The Criminal Court Tuesday convicted the three election commissioners in malfeasance and jailed them immediately, causing them to automatically lose their status.

The three commissioenrs were found guilty of violating the election law and sentenced to four years in jail. Their election rights were also revoked for ten years.

I think it quite clearly states that they have lost their status, which I think would imply that they also lose any protection that they may have enjoyed through their position on the EC.

Let us ope that this is the start of real moves that will help clean up some of the local politics. We can only hope...

[sriracha john]

EC TRIO JAILED

Two courts turn down commissioners' appeals for bail; selection of new group of EC members set to begin

The three remaining Election Commissioners spent their first night in jail after two courts yesterday turned down dramatic appeals for bail following their conviction for mishandling the April 2 election.

The government and the Thai Rak Thai Party indicated their acceptance of the Criminal Court's verdict even though they had backed the three commissioners in their defiance of calls for their resignation by anti-government groups.

"If the election commissioners are released on bail, they will return to manage a new general election, which possibly would repeat what they did wrong in the recently-nullified election," the court stated in its verdict against EC chairman Vasana Puemlarp and commissioners Prinya Nakchudtree and Virachai Naewboonnien.

The court found that the commissioners were thinking of their own interests rather than that of the people. It said they had clung stubbornly to their posts even though numerous leading figures and many political parties had fiercely opposed their legitimacy to hold elections at any level.

The three EC members were sentenced to four years in prison and had their right to vote revoked for 10 years.

The three commissioners appealed for bail shortly after they were sentenced. However, Thaworn asked the court to reject the appeal, saying they could damage the chance of a "fair" election on October 15 if they were let free.

Throughout the afternoon, the Criminal Court considered the call for bail before rejecting it. The commissioners then went to the Appeal Court but again were knocked back.

"I don't take the case personally. I take no delight in seeing the commissioners put in prison for four years," Thaworn said. "I just don't want them to manage the election on October 15."

The three commissioners refused to comment after losing their appeals.

They were escorted to a white van and taken to Bangkok Remand Prison, arriving at 6.45pm.

Tongthong Chandrangsu, deputy permanent secretary of the Justice Ministry, insisted the EC members would not get special privileges. "They will not be treated differently from other prisoners," he said.

EC lawyer Choosak Senaboonyarith said he would appeal to the Supreme Court today for the three to be released. This would take about two days.

He said he would also appeal against the court's ruling, as the commissioners insisted they were innocent.

Democrat secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban hailed the Criminal Court's decision, saying the people still relied on judicial power.

Government spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee said Pornthip Jala, secretary-general of the Council of State, had informed the Cabinet that the three EC commissioners had now lost their status.

By having their right to vote revoked for 10 years, the commissioners were automatically disqualified from holding their posts, the Council of State stated. Surapong said the selection of five new commissioners would now begin.

Although an EC selection panel needed members of Parliament to take part with representatives of the Supreme Court, Senate Speaker Suchon Chaleekrua could begin the process instantly in the absence of a constitutional Parliament, Surapong said.

Suchon could ask the Council of the Supreme Court to carry out the selection by itself, he said.

Following the advice from the Council of State, caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra affirmed that the EC members had been disqualified and selection of a new commission could begin right away.

Thaksin expressed confidence the October 15 election would not be postponed. He said the new EC would be appointed before the election decree took effect on August 24, as the Supreme Court already had its nominations.

"We [Thai Rak Thai] play by the rules and are ready for the election, so we are not worried about the changes at the EC," he said.

The Nation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thaksin went on to say, "However, if it is found that we [Thai Rak Thai] didn't play by the rules, then I'd like to request a cell with a view and, if possible, to be near my good friend Vasana."

[AlexLah]

Hi All

Are there any pictures available of the culprits actualy being in jail?

According to my Thai friends they never went there just payed a lot of money to stay out of it.

Kind regards and what a wonderfull country we live in.

Alex

[sriracha john]

Additional information on the specifics of their wrong-doing:

CRIMINAL COURT VERDICT

What swayed the judges

The Criminal Court's landmark guilty verdict yesterday against the Election Commission (EC) for foul play in the botched April 2 election and repeat vote ended months of speculation on the job status of the three commissioners and paved the way for a complete revamp of the commission to restore the credibility of the electoral process.

The court sentenced the three election commissioners to four years in jail, revoked their voting rights for 10 years and denied them bail before sending them to remand prison pending an appellate review today.

The three presiding judges, Channarong Praneejit, Kamol Kampen and Bandan Dangkhunthod, spent one hour reading their unanimous ruling.

The court found that the EC and its commissioners, Vasana Puemlarp, Prinya Nakchudtree and Virachai Naewboonnien, exceeded their mandate in managing the April 2 election, the repeat vote on April 23 and another one planned for April 29.

At the centre of the case was the EC's decision to register additional candidates after the first round of balloting failed to produce winners in 38 constituencies.

As plaintiff, Democrat Party deputy secretary-general Thaworn Senniam contended the three commissioners failed to uphold impartiality and that their actions favoured the Thai Rak Thai Party.

Preceding the verdict, the court outlined key events relating to the April election which it said shed light on the EC's involvement before the balloting outcome was nullified by the Constitution Court the following month.

The Thai Rak Thai Party was the only major party contesting the poll. It fielded 281 lone candidates in constituencies where small parties could not compete.

After the first round of balloting, 38 lone candidates failed to muster the support of 20 per cent of eligible voters - a requirement for any candidate running unopposed.

The three commissioners then decided to organise the repeat vote in 38 constituencies, mostly located in the South, Phetchaburi and Nonthaburi.

They authorised local electoral offices to register additional candidates. Under their instruction, candidates from the first round of voting were allowed to switch constituencies and run in the repeat vote even though the EC had not endorsed balloting results.

They went ahead with the plan for additional candidates even though the Supreme Court had ruled on April 9 that it was illegal for candidates to switch constituencies before the endorsement of votes in the first round.

The Supreme Court said constituency switching amounted to allowing candidates to run a dual race, which was unconstitutional.

After outlining relevant events, the court examined pertinent provisions of the Constitution, the Criminal Code and the 1998 Election Commission Act.

It found that the three commissioners were not empowered to register additional candidates for the repeat vote.

Candidacy registration for elections and by-elections can only take place according to Article 145 of the Constitution and relevant provisions of the election law, it said.

Article 7 of the EC Act prescribes that commissioners should exercise discretion regarding the timing of a repeat vote, but it says nothing about candidacy.

"The three commissioners had the mandate to adjust the timing but not to register new candidates for repeat voting," the court said. The three came to their conclusion on the candidacy issue for the repeat vote after realising that the ruling party could not overcome the 20 per cent rule.

The three commissioners also allowed repeated registrations for candidates in Songkhla after no qualified individuals stepped forward, it said.

"The candidacy registration debacle happened even though the EC had issued a ban on accepting additional candidates for repeat voting," it said. The ban was published in the Royal Gazette on December 26, 2000.

"The consequence of the three commissioners' action was to help the Thai Rak Thai Party overcome the 20 per cent rule, which, in turn, meant the balloting outcome was not a true reflection of the people's will," the court said.

It ruled that the three commissioners had violated articles 24 and 42 of the EC Act and Article 83 of the Criminal Code.

Article 24 says the commissioners must refrain from being unfair to candidates and political parties and Article 42 provides that those convicted of violating Article 24 face a jail term ranging from one to 10 years, a fine of up to Bt200,000 and the revocation of voting rights for 10 years.

The Criminal Code grants the court jurisdiction to punish authorities for malfeasance.

The court refused to release the three commissioners on bail on the grounds that they could return to organise the new poll in an unfair manner.

"The three commissioners are senior figures who should know that their office is vital for the development of democratic rule," it said. "The three have stubbornly pursued their way even after the people and political parties lost trust in them.

"This court suspects the three of putting their own interests before those of the nation and fears they will inflict more damage if set free," it said.

The Nation

[lukamar]

Once the individuals have been selected then the names are then handed over to the Senate, who will form a series of panels to ensure that the nominated individuals are eligable to be Election Commissioners.

A couple of thoughts having nothing to do with the guilt or innocence of the EC....

Did the past EC manage to get the remaining Senators endorsed before they were jailed? If not the New Senate can't sit to endorse the EC so can the Caretaker Senate endorse an all new EC legally?

The Supreme Court may well have also breached the constitution in the last few months in refusing to nominate replacement EC candidates to the Senate in the appropriate time allotment as outlined in the constitution, 45 days from the time the post became vacant.

"3) the nominations under (1) and (2) shall be made within thirty days as from the date when a ground for the selection of persons to be in such office occurs. In the case where the Selective Committee under (1) is unable to make nomination, or unable to make nomination in the complete number, within the prescribed time, the Supreme Court of Justice shall, at its general meeting, make nomination to obtain the complete number within fifteen days as from the date of the expiration of the nomination time under (1);"

With the current EC getting a prison sentences. Who in their right mind would want to put their head on the block and become an Commissioner at this time, unless they have something major to gain from it?

[sriracha john]

Hi All

Are there any pictures available of the culprits actualy being in jail?

According to my Thai friends they never went there just payed a lot of money to stay out of it.

Kind regards and what a wonderfull country we live in.

Alex

Television news had footage of them getting out of the van inside the prison compound and walking into the central processing room. They didn't come out... so one can draw their own conclusions from that.

Prison officials didn't allow the media inside the prison compound itself, which I would presume is fairly routine, so there are no photos specifically of them behind bars.....

yet, anyway.

[Tony Clifton]

Stand up straight like real men. There will be plenty of time to stare at the jail cell's floor later on.

Now, time to weed out the source of the real problem why the EC is headed to the big house, the guy in black and white.

Edited July 25, 2006 by Tony Clifton

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Four years loss of liberty is severe punishment.

There must have been evidence of some really "dirty work at the crossroads".

What was it?

Electoral fraud maybe

[Scott]

I didn't know that they actually took people in suits to jail. I thought that jail was only for people wearing a T-shirt, shorts and flip-flops!!

Surely there is some mistake?!