EC Guilty!

[Plus]

During the bail appeals EC members remained defiant, publicly declared their innocence, and there were people saying that they still can manage new elections. It's clear why the bail was denied - there was a good chance that they would engage in the same criminal activity they have been convicted of.

The courts have been "tasked" with clearing up post election mess by HM the King. Why there is a question "who are they working for"?

The courts didn't chose replacements for EC members because that would have made their task more difficult and they issued public statements on the matter. If people think it was wrong they can look it up, give quotes - provide some substance to the allegations.

At first courts issued not legally binding advice which was ignored, so the case had to go through all legal procedures. It's more like a settlement offer that was rejected.

Jon Upagorn should also back up his "bizzare" comment, without providing substance he looks like he just wants some publicity for standing out of the crowd. Sometimes he makes sense, sometimes doesn't. Disagreeing with everyone is his default position in any matter, btw.

Now it's very important to see how long the EC will be kept in jail. So far it hasn't been much trouble for them yet, but with each passing day they are closer to a "breakdown line". I wonder if that't the hidden purpose of the exercise - to make them speak. I suspect they have a lot to say about who or what made them stay defiantly until the end, as it's not very likely they did it "for the country", and if there was any agreement it surely didn't include serving jail time.

With their mobile phones with them they might be conducting further negotiations to make it worthwhile.

Let's see how it develops.

[chownah]

I asked myself who Thaksin meant when he said it and there's only one answer.

Perhaps your knowledge of important people in Thailand is limited...I can think of three very plausible answers.....and 2 or 3 possible but not quite so plausible answers....and I admittedly don't know alot about important people in Thailand. In fact, the person who I assume you think is the ONLY answer is not even on my list of possible answers.

[chownah]

The ex EC still have phones so they can still influence people on the outside. I would not dwell on the EC too much, Thaksin is still doing his thing and probably more so while everyone is captivated by the EC saga. I feel people should now press for answers from Thaksin citing the EC as proof of his involvement in underhanded actions. He has not answered any hot questions at all this year, and only provided distractions. Don’t let him forget that is part of the PM job as a servant of the people to keep them informed and provide transparency.

I think that you're missing one of the points of discussion here. In my post and in a few others we were not discussing the "EC saga"....we were discussing the condition of democracy and the democratic process (or lack thereof) in the court proceedings which involve the former EC members. We were discussing issues of justice vs. expediency and the like....this is hadly the same thing as to "dwell on the EC too much"....in my opinion.

[terry57]

I can't agree with those who are calling this a victory for justice. Makes you wonder, doesn't it , who the judges at the Criminal Court are working for. Sounds like someone with charisma eh.

A couple of people are asking the right questions, rather than gloating. We didn't really even need to have a trial as the outcome was announced by all the courts, some time ago, when the courts all got together and told the press the EC had to go. There are other questions that have to be asked as well. Why has the Supreme court not put forward EC replacements for over a year, in one case, when the Constitution states it has to put the names forward within 45 days of the vacancy when the Senate asked repeatedly that this be done? You also have to ask yourself are the courts now "above the law" and if so who is allowing it or controlling them? If the Supreme court could not put forward names for replacements on the EC how can they expediently put up names for a full replacement and is a third party pushing for specific people? It would be a golden opportunity to put in an EC with a very specific itinerary by nomination only people that the court knew had a certain leaning, in that way you could in effect allow the Senate no choice as all candidates would be the same and the EC would be totally dominated.

It's time some start to ask hard questions about who is really running Thailand and if the current situation is actually democratic or is being orchestrated behind the scenes by a third party.

concerning the last part of your post you answered your own question correct'ly.

the process is being manipulated by a third party and thats why my money still stays on these characters walking.

[Plus]

Yes, the courts shouldn't wait for the King to tell them what to do and they ignored peoples cries for justice when they should have acted. Instead it was HM the King who answered peoples calls.

So yes, the law and order in this country depends on monarchy, hardly the news.

Edited July 28, 2006 by Plus

[terry57]

What a blessed relief for the people of the devine LOS if these convictions remain! How long before the three will be singing like canaries, implicating all to get themselves of the hook?

i would say that a deal will be done so they wont start to sing.

that will only accelerate the current situation and cause big loss of face to many a top person and we all know how loss of face affect's a thai.

the deal will be : say nothing to implicate no one and you can have a nice walk oround the park shortly.

[terry57]

Any word on whether Chuwit dropped off any fried rice and ice coffee today?

Wednesday July 26, 2006

The jail official said the trio must get up at 6am this morning to exercise and answer roll call just like all other inmates. Their families were allowed to bring them meals for their first breakfast in jail.

If they were not released on bail within seven days, the prison may consider sending them separately to different jail zones.

A source said they were treated to dinner yesterday prepared by Chuan Chom, a restaurant run by the department.

Earlier, deputy Chart Thai party leader Chuwit Kamolvisit paid the trio a visit at the Criminal Court, bringing along fried rice and iced coffee for them.

Mr Chuwit, who was greeted with loud boos from the trio's sympathisers, said he wanted to give the trio his moral support.

ok , they'll be out on bail within 7 days, no problem at all.

bit rough they had to get up at 6.00am like all the other punters is'nt it ?

this is becoming more humourous by the day and this is why i love los.

next thing we will hear is they have been transfered to the orient hotel to serve out the rest of there 7 days

[terry57]

Lastly, in case you are unaware, people in Thailand are denied bail in criminal cases here everyday.

From a quote in your favorite news source The Nation.."the Criminal, Appeals and Supreme courts all denied them bail out of fear they could cause more trouble and obstruct judicial proceedings."

Then they, according to the Nation, " were given special privileges, such as a private room with a television and the chance to make five phone calls, he said." and "Their new cells would be renovated." and "Despite prison rules banning the use of mobile phones, the three men took theirs with them into prison," . I guess that happens every day as well..

They are not a flight risk, they did not commit a violent crime and they resigned. So "denied them bail out of fear they could cause more trouble and obstruct judicial proceedings." sounds to me like they are being gagged and not punished. But that would never happen in Thailand under the fantasy umbrella of Constitutional reform, transparency, democracy and free speech, would it, could it? You bet it could.....

quote " sounds to me like they are being gagged "

totally agree as blind freddy can work that out.

quote " fantasty umbrella of constitutional reform "

your right on the money with this post old son and you should be made president as your making a heap of bleeding common sense here.

[Plus]

I don't think they are gagged - anytime they want a press-conference hundreds will turn up. "Gagged, not punished" doesn't make sense - they are not held incommunicado. I personally think they are held to MAKE them talk, not to gag them, that's one theory.

Fantasy umbrella of Constitutional reform? What's that? Does it mean reform that is supposed to take place after the next elections? How is it related to today's news?

[Gonzo the Face]

Any word on whether Chuwit dropped off any fried rice and ice coffee today?

Wednesday July 26, 2006

The jail official said the trio must get up at 6am this morning to exercise and answer roll call just like all other inmates. Their families were allowed to bring them meals for their first breakfast in jail.

If they were not released on bail within seven days, the prison may consider sending them separately to different jail zones.

A source said they were treated to dinner yesterday prepared by Chuan Chom, a restaurant run by the department.

Earlier, deputy Chart Thai party leader Chuwit Kamolvisit paid the trio a visit at the Criminal Court, bringing along fried rice and iced coffee for them.

Mr Chuwit, who was greeted with loud boos from the trio's sympathisers, said he wanted to give the trio his moral support.

and just to continue showing that all prisoners are treated equally.... this from the Nation today.

EC PRISONERS

Jailed trio get special privileges NNnnnnnoooooooo

Still no bail, but guilty trio allowed better quarters, television and mobile phones

The three former election commissioners yesterday failed in their attempt to be moved to "better" quarters after suffering three days in prison, a source said.

"They had asked to go to a new detention centre," the source said. [On the French Riveria the source didn't say}

Vasana Puemlarp, Prinya Nakchudtree and Virachai Naewboonnien are reportedly feeling stressed since the Criminal, Appeals and Supreme courts all denied them bail out of fear they could cause more trouble and obstruct judicial proceedings.

They were reportedly still locked up in Bangkok Remand Prison as of last night.

The Criminal Court on Tuesday convicted the trio of mishandling the April 2 election and sentenced them to four years behind bars. The three then resigned.

Natthee Jitsawang, director-general of the Corrections Department, said he was considering moving the former election watchdogs to nearby Bang Khen Detention Centre, located in the Police Club compound.

Since Tuesday, many EC supporters had come to visit and spend the night in the compact area in front of the prison, making it difficult for guards to control the crowd, he said.

The three former commissioners were given special privileges, such as a private room with a television and the chance to make five phone calls, he said.

The source believes that if the three ousted commissioners were transferred to the other facility, they would feel relieved and more comfortable as they would be kept out of the eyes of the media. But that could also raise doubts about whether they were under detention or free to walk around the compound.

As the detention centre is run jointly by the police and the Corrections Department, Vasana, as a retired senior police officer, along with his cohorts Prinya and Virachai, would likely receive better treatment than they got in the prison, the source said.

Their new cells would be renovated to welcome the newcomers, the source said

Despite prison rules banning the use of mobile phones, the three men took theirs with them into prison, the source said.

Piyanuch Tamnukasetchai

The Nation

Yeah I can see it .... Just like all the other prisoners

[jbowman1993]

As long as they resigned, does anyone really care what happens to them next? Lets move on.

[Plus]

If it was the show of force, the point has been made. Their enemies are magnanimous enough (unless they want to make them talk).

[hammered]

A lot on here are saying the court made a political rather than a legal decision on the EC three. Some even seem quite outraged by this.

Five years or so ago a court made a decision that overturned a recent precedent. This was seen as a political rather than legal decision. One of the judges in the 8-7 majority of that decision later told a strange story.

How many of our posters criticizing the recent decision were as vocal when the old ruling was made?

For anyone who has been here fro 5 years or longer there is probably a certain irony in how things are working out. It all began with the courts and it maybe it will end with the courts.

People talk of what goes around comes around.

Edited July 28, 2006 by hammered

[jdinasia]

As long as they resigned, does anyone really care what happens to them next? Lets move on.

Actually YES many people care whatr happens next to them. If you see them as lackeys of Thaksin who deliberate;y influenced the elections towards TRT then you want them jailed. If you think they are just dupes of the powerbases of BKK in an attempt to get at Thaksin ... you call then not a legal victory but an expedient one.

[Insight]

Quoting the latest from The Nation; hardly suprising news by any means.

Convicted EC given special treatment

Three ex-EC commissioners have been granted special treatments in Bangkok Remand Prison as they were allowed to have mobile phone and to have several visits a day.

Prison rules allowed a prisoner to have only a 15-minute visit a day. Visitors and prisoners are placed in a room separated by partition mirror and talk through a telephone.

However it is reported that the convicted trio; Vasana Puemlarp, Prinya Nakchudtree and Virachai Naewboonnien, have their own mobile phones. It has been reported that some journalists have conducted telephone interview with Vasana from his jail cell on Thursday.

The trio's were allowed to meet their visitors in persons with no partition and several times a day.

Their visitors' vehicles were allowed to park inside the prison compound. The same privileges are not granted to other prisoners' guests.

Moreover, the trio do not have to have their meals with other prisoners. Prison staffs would set separate meals for them with the food ordered from outside restaurant.

News reports about the trio's special treatments have been leaked by prison officials who appeared to be more and more frustrated with the added burden of having to monitor the trio and their activities around the clock.

The Nation

------

If these guys do walk any time soon, pretty sure The Nation will be all over it.

[jdinasia]

hmmm about time for them to take away the priviledges ... these guys are in fact convicted felons ... no matter their social-standing before the convictions

[Jai Dee]

A number of posts about a publication that is banned here in Thailand have been unapproved.

Please do not continue to discuss it on the Forum.

Thanks for your understanding.

[Jai Dee]

Mr. Suthep does not mind that the three election commissioners requests for new place to jail them

Democrat Secretary-General Suthep Thuagsuban (สุเทพ เทือกสุบรรณ) said that he does not mind that the three election commissioners have requested officials to change the place to jail them.

He confirmed that his prosecution against the three election commissioners is to request fair as the Democrat party was claimed that it obstructed the holding of the election in Songkhla (สงขลา) Province. He said that currently, the Primary Court has already judged that the party does not involve in the matter, adding that the party will bring this verdict to clarify facts to the Constitutional Court on the case that it was claimed that it hired small parties to run in the general election.

In response to the unofficial meeting between Chart Thai Leader Banharn Silpa_acha (บรรหาร ศิลปอาชา) and Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, he said that the premier is trying to find ways to continue his post.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 July 2006

[Losangels]

A number of posts about a publication that is banned here in Thailand have been unapproved.

Please do not continue to discuss it on the Forum.

Thanks for your understanding.

Sorry did not mean to and understand

[Jai Dee]

The Supreme Court begins selecting new poll commissioners

The selection of new five Election Commission (EC) members has already begun after the Supreme Court asked 86 judges yesterday to name candidates for the poll agency.

Court secretary Wirat Chinwinijkul (วิรัช ชินวินิจกุล) said nominations will be accepted until August 2 after which a 10-member panel will be appointed to check qualifications of contestants.

Mr. Wirat said the court will call a general assembly on August 10 for the 86 judges to select 10 contenders for the interim senate to pick five of them to the EC. Proven integrity is the most important qualification the court is looking for from the candidates, he added.

The selection of the new poll commissioners is required after Pol. Gen. Wasana Permlarp (วาสนา เพิ่มลาภ), Parinya Nakchatree (ปริญญา นาคฉัตรีย์) and Weerachai Naewboon-nian (วีระชัย แนวบุญเนียน) were sentenced to four years in jail for breaking the election law early this week.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 July 2006

[cclub75]

A number of posts about a publication that is banned here in Thailand have been unapproved.

Jai Dee, are you sure that this book has been "banned" in Thailand ?

Did you receive an instruction from the Culture ministry ? Or did you see anywhere such instruction ?

Once again, it's a magnificient thai opacity.

But still, I agree, this book will not find its way on the shelves here.

But i would like people to understand the difference between self censorship and official censorship.

[Insight]

Ex-EC Trio released on bail

Criminal Court has released on bail on Friday three Election Commissioners jailed for malfeasance after they promised to stay away from any election activities and guarantee that their supporters would not stage any more protest in front of the court houses.

Lawyers of the trio also attached medical reports which showed that they are in need of medical attention. The reports said Vasana Puemlarp suffered from allergies, Prinya Nakchudtree from high blood pressure and sinus while Virachai Naewboonnien from kidney failure.

The trio were brought from Bangkok Remand Prison on Friday where they had been jailed since Tuesday to the Criminal Court to be questioned by a judge.

The trio promised the court that they would stay away from any election-related activities. The court told them that once they are freed on bail, they have four hours to pack their belongings at the Election Commission Office.

The Court also asked a guarantee from them that their supporters would not conduct any protests in front of the court houses. They agreed to help prevent any form of public demonstration.

On Tuesday when the Criminal Court read the verdict on their trial, their supporters staged noisy gathering outside the court's building. They even booed when they learnt that the Court found them guilty. Emotion runs high, followed by pushing and shoving between the two opposing sides. One man who was demonstrating against the former EC members was kicked and fell to the ground.

When the trio were taken to Bangkok Remand Prison, their supporters also gathered in front of the prison to express their dissatisfaction that the trio were jailed.

The bail request on Friday was the third after the Criminal Court found the trio guilty of malfeasance and mishandling the April election and sentenced them to four years in prison and their voting rights stripped of for ten years.

-----

Again, sadly, hardly suprising.

[terry57]

I don't think they are gagged - anytime they want a press-conference hundreds will turn up. "Gagged, not punished" doesn't make sense - they are not held incommunicado. I personally think they are held to MAKE them talk, not to gag them, that's one theory.

Fantasy umbrella of Constitutional reform? What's that? Does it mean reform that is supposed to take place after the next elections? How is it related to today's news?

plus, im taking his post this way and i could be wrong but consider this :

A . " GAGGED " = not in the true sense of the word but his meaning being,

to be seen to say the right things that will not cause anyone to lose face and by doing this, saving themselves alot more drama in the process and possibly get themselves out of jail more quickly.

ie. a deal has been done through a third party.

B. " fantasy umbrella of constitutional reform"

im taking that as he means reform after the next election, but his words are related to people within goverment and the average thai who are calling for this to happen.

its a bit off a piss take as he and many others think this will never really happen considering how thai politics work.

C. " how is this related to todays post"

considering that this thread is political in nature he has just thrown that into his post which is still well within the scope of this topic.

im not a mind reader so i could be way of the mark but i think im close to this fellows thoughts.

maybe the author could step up and clarify this for us.

cheers

[terry57]

Any word on whether Chuwit dropped off any fried rice and ice coffee today?

Wednesday July 26, 2006

The jail official said the trio must get up at 6am this morning to exercise and answer roll call just like all other inmates. Their families were allowed to bring them meals for their first breakfast in jail.

If they were not released on bail within seven days, the prison may consider sending them separately to different jail zones.

A source said they were treated to dinner yesterday prepared by Chuan Chom, a restaurant run by the department.

Earlier, deputy Chart Thai party leader Chuwit Kamolvisit paid the trio a visit at the Criminal Court, bringing along fried rice and iced coffee for them.

Mr Chuwit, who was greeted with loud boos from the trio's sympathisers, said he wanted to give the trio his moral support.

and just to continue showing that all prisoners are treated equally.... this from the Nation today.

EC PRISONERS

Jailed trio get special privileges NNnnnnnoooooooo

Still no bail, but guilty trio allowed better quarters, television and mobile phones

The three former election commissioners yesterday failed in their attempt to be moved to "better" quarters after suffering three days in prison, a source said.

"They had asked to go to a new detention centre," the source said. [On the French Riveria the source didn't say}

Vasana Puemlarp, Prinya Nakchudtree and Virachai Naewboonnien are reportedly feeling stressed since the Criminal, Appeals and Supreme courts all denied them bail out of fear they could cause more trouble and obstruct judicial proceedings.

They were reportedly still locked up in Bangkok Remand Prison as of last night.

The Criminal Court on Tuesday convicted the trio of mishandling the April 2 election and sentenced them to four years behind bars. The three then resigned.

Natthee Jitsawang, director-general of the Corrections Department, said he was considering moving the former election watchdogs to nearby Bang Khen Detention Centre, located in the Police Club compound.

Since Tuesday, many EC supporters had come to visit and spend the night in the compact area in front of the prison, making it difficult for guards to control the crowd, he said.

The three former commissioners were given special privileges, such as a private room with a television and the chance to make five phone calls, he said.

The source believes that if the three ousted commissioners were transferred to the other facility, they would feel relieved and more comfortable as they would be kept out of the eyes of the media. But that could also raise doubts about whether they were under detention or free to walk around the compound.

As the detention centre is run jointly by the police and the Corrections Department, Vasana, as a retired senior police officer, along with his cohorts Prinya and Virachai, would likely receive better treatment than they got in the prison, the source said.

Their new cells would be renovated to welcome the newcomers, the source said

Despite prison rules banning the use of mobile phones, the three men took theirs with them into prison, the source said.

Piyanuch Tamnukasetchai

The Nation

Yeah I can see it .... Just like all the other prisoners

yes, if i keep laughing any longer i'll end up in hospital connected to a heart and lung machine.

[terry57]

Quoting the latest from The Nation; hardly suprising news by any means.

Convicted EC given special treatment

Three ex-EC commissioners have been granted special treatments in Bangkok Remand Prison as they were allowed to have mobile phone and to have several visits a day.

Prison rules allowed a prisoner to have only a 15-minute visit a day. Visitors and prisoners are placed in a room separated by partition mirror and talk through a telephone.

However it is reported that the convicted trio; Vasana Puemlarp, Prinya Nakchudtree and Virachai Naewboonnien, have their own mobile phones. It has been reported that some journalists have conducted telephone interview with Vasana from his jail cell on Thursday.

The trio's were allowed to meet their visitors in persons with no partition and several times a day.

Their visitors' vehicles were allowed to park inside the prison compound. The same privileges are not granted to other prisoners' guests.

Moreover, the trio do not have to have their meals with other prisoners. Prison staffs would set separate meals for them with the food ordered from outside restaurant.

News reports about the trio's special treatments have been leaked by prison officials who appeared to be more and more frustrated with the added burden of having to monitor the trio and their activities around the clock.

The Nation

------

If these guys do walk any time soon, pretty sure The Nation will be all over it.

the nation is a top news paper but it dont wield the power that these guys have hidden up there sleaves.

dont really matter what they report as the people will not take to the streets over this even if they end up free to go.

meals bought in from restaurants, mobile phone's and we must remember that they are convicted prisoners with a 4 year sentence waiting on appeal.

we is this going people ? its getting clearer by day.

they will walk and it will all go under ground within a few weeks.

ive bet a six pack on it but im up'ing my bet to a freaking keg.

[marquess]

Quoting the latest from The Nation; hardly suprising news by any means.

Convicted EC given special treatment

Three ex-EC commissioners have been granted special treatments in Bangkok Remand Prison as they were allowed to have mobile phone and to have several visits a day.

Prison rules allowed a prisoner to have only a 15-minute visit a day. Visitors and prisoners are placed in a room separated by partition mirror and talk through a telephone.

However it is reported that the convicted trio; Vasana Puemlarp, Prinya Nakchudtree and Virachai Naewboonnien, have their own mobile phones. It has been reported that some journalists have conducted telephone interview with Vasana from his jail cell on Thursday.

The trio's were allowed to meet their visitors in persons with no partition and several times a day.

Their visitors' vehicles were allowed to park inside the prison compound. The same privileges are not granted to other prisoners' guests.

Moreover, the trio do not have to have their meals with other prisoners. Prison staffs would set separate meals for them with the food ordered from outside restaurant.

News reports about the trio's special treatments have been leaked by prison officials who appeared to be more and more frustrated with the added burden of having to monitor the trio and their activities around the clock.

The Nation

------

If these guys do walk any time soon, pretty sure The Nation will be all over it.

the nation is a top news paper but it dont wield the power that these guys have hidden up there sleaves.

dont really matter what they report as the people will not take to the streets over this even if they end up free to go.

meals bought in from restaurants, mobile phone's and we must remember that they are convicted prisoners with a 4 year sentence waiting on appeal.

we is this going people ? its getting clearer by day.

they will walk and it will all go under ground within a few weeks.

ive bet a six pack on it but im up'ing my bet to a freaking keg.

As is always the way here in Thailand, if you are rich, you really don't have to worry about incaceration, as there is always someone to influence inorder to get yourself sprung. They should have been transferred to a 15 to a room cell, faraway from their supporters and family members, then they could have really, had cause to reflect on their errors!

[John K]

Ok so now there out. Now here is a bit of a situation, anyone in government who they have contact with will (if they are not already) be viewed as a collaborator. So politically that are about as welcome as The Bird flu. I feel they should be in jail, but now that they are out it may help the PAD to rattle a few more cages by raising some questions.

[lannarebirth]

For any lawyers or other knowledgeable folks.

Are all court cases in Thailand eligible for appeal? Are all convicted persons granted bail during appellate process?

My undersatnding of the appeals process, is that only those convicted who can show an irregularity or mis-application of law in the initial trial may be granted an appeal. Otherwise you have a case of just rehashing everything, tying up the docket, until you get the result you seek. Additionally, those with medical maladies are generally sent to the medical wing of the prison, are they not?

Can anyone provide any illumination beyond TiT?

Edited July 28, 2006 by lannarebirth

[terry57]

glad i up'ed my bet to a keg,

anybody up for a drink ?

only the people who were with me , as i dont want any free loaders.

[lannarebirth]

Criminal Court asked police to trace those post criticism against court on Web boards

The Criminal Court has asked the Crime Suppression Division to trace the identities of those who had posted strong criticisms against the court on Web boards.

Than Boonyatulanon, secretary to the Criminal Court chief justice, said he asked CSD commander Pol Maj Gen Winai Thongsong to trace the IP addresses and find who were the ones who post the comments against the court after the court found the three election commissions guilty.

The Nation