Face

[laolover88]

There has been much talk of one of the problems with the Police investigation on Koh Tao of the Police not 'losing face'. Indeed the concept crops up regularly in discussions trying to explain actions undertaken in order to 'save face'.

There is a lot of very erudite stuff on Wikepedia about Face: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)

Very detailed about Chinese notions of Face.

What is the Thai notion of Face? Is it different from the notion in other cultures? Are there gender differences? Can children lose face? What actions/behaviours make one lose/save/or even acquire face?

[h90]

They should not loose face, they should loose their job.

Else loosing face is the same everywhere. Everyone is ashamed if he has to admit that he did something wrong and tries to mask it.

On some people morale is stronger and they admit they did wrong. Others are more immoral and try to shift the blame...or even try to put some young men in jail forever before they admit failure...

[daveAustin]

We also have it in the West, but most of us kind of grow out of it or counter it with cunning and diplomacy when we realise that being wrong is not such a big deal and that life is more important. The Thais seem to have taken the concept to another level, even going as far as murder death in order to regain some.

And, on that note, it is poignant you bring up the Koh Tao incident, since it is likely the murderers were some little Thai perps that lost face. Like this: pretty Western girl gets hit upon by boozed-up Thai someone showing off in front of his pals thinking he's the man; perp gets brushed off by girl and girl's friend steps in when perp becomes agitated. Perp becomes enraged at the loss of face and murders them both. It happens time and again. Face seems especially pronounced in Thai males of all ages perhaps through 1) being doted on by their mothers and getting away with all sorts of things from a very young age and 2) letting off steam after all those years of restraint to keep emotions in check.

Ultimately, the maintaining of face to the enth degree is a sign of immaturity and seems particularly entrenched throughout Asia. I'll get flamed for this, but I find most Asian societies immature; perhaps it goes hand-in-hand with very bad, childish television?

[h90]

We also have it in the West, but most of us kind of grow out of it or counter it with cunning and diplomacy when we realise that being wrong is not such a big deal and that life is more important. The Thais seem to have taken the concept to another level, even going as far as murder death in order to regain some.

And, on that note, it is poignant you bring up the Koh Tao incident, since it is likely the murderers were some little Thai perps that lost face. Like this: pretty Western girl gets hit upon by boozed-up Thai someone showing off in front of his pals thinking he's the man; perp gets brushed off by girl and girl's friend steps in when perp becomes agitated. Perp becomes enraged at the loss of face and murders them both. It happens time and again. Face seems especially pronounced in Thai males of all ages perhaps through 1) being doted on by their mothers and getting away with all sorts of things from a very young age and 2) letting off steam after all those years of restraint to keep emotions in check.

Ultimately, the maintaining of face to the enth degree is a sign of immaturity and seems particularly entrenched throughout Asia. I'll get flamed for this, but I find most Asian societies immature; perhaps it goes hand-in-hand with very bad, childish television?

In the west we try to cover us when it is possible. When we see that it is hopeless we admit our wrongdoing (well for police and politicians I wouldn't be sure).

[seajae]

face means never having to admit your are wrong, you did the wrong thing, you cant be f**ked doing what you said you would, someone else has made you look bad, they are simply better at things than you, they dared to complain or you just need to show how big your d*ck is by bashing a female or getting a group of friend s to help beat up on someone. With the police they simply dont want to admit they f**ked up due to "wealthy friends /benefits".

[cloghead]

Love Face is never having to say you're sorry...

[DerekMarshall]

We also have it in the West, but most of us kind of grow out of it or counter it with cunning and diplomacy when we realise that being wrong is not such a big deal and that life is more important. The Thais seem to have taken the concept to another level, even going as far as murder death in order to regain some.

And, on that note, it is poignant you bring up the Koh Tao incident, since it is likely the murderers were some little Thai perps that lost face. Like this: pretty Western girl gets hit upon by boozed-up Thai someone showing off in front of his pals thinking he's the man; perp gets brushed off by girl and girl's friend steps in when perp becomes agitated. Perp becomes enraged at the loss of face and murders them both. It happens time and again. Face seems especially pronounced in Thai males of all ages perhaps through 1) being doted on by their mothers and getting away with all sorts of things from a very young age and 2) letting off steam after all those years of restraint to keep emotions in check.

Ultimately, the maintaining of face to the enth degree is a sign of immaturity and seems particularly entrenched throughout Asia. I'll get flamed for this, but I find most Asian societies immature; perhaps it goes hand-in-hand with very bad, childish television?

Technically speaking saving face has no place in Thai society or culture as saving face is a strong attachment to self importance and ego, yet the religion of the country is Buddhism and the Buddha teacher to detach from ones ego.

Therefore saving has technically no place in Thai culture and is a contradiction to the highly revered religion of the country.

[geronimo]

We also have it in the West, but most of us kind of grow out of it or counter it with cunning and diplomacy when we realise that being wrong is not such a big deal and that life is more important. The Thais seem to have taken the concept to another level, even going as far as murder death in order to regain some.

And, on that note, it is poignant you bring up the Koh Tao incident, since it is likely the murderers were some little Thai perps that lost face. Like this: pretty Western girl gets hit upon by boozed-up Thai someone showing off in front of his pals thinking he's the man; perp gets brushed off by girl and girl's friend steps in when perp becomes agitated. Perp becomes enraged at the loss of face and murders them both. It happens time and again. Face seems especially pronounced in Thai males of all ages perhaps through 1) being doted on by their mothers and getting away with all sorts of things from a very young age and 2) letting off steam after all those years of restraint to keep emotions in check.

Ultimately, the maintaining of face to the enth degree is a sign of immaturity and seems particularly entrenched throughout Asia. I'll get flamed for this, but I find most Asian societies immature; perhaps it goes hand-in-hand with very bad, childish television?

Technically speaking saving face has no place in Thai society or culture as saving face is a strong attachment to self importance and ego, yet the religion of the country is Buddhism and the Buddha teacher to detach from ones ego.

Therefore saving has technically no place in Thai culture and is a contradiction to the highly revered religion of the country.

Welcome to the Land of Contradictions