Corruption at W Condominium

[Gringoperdido]

I just went to pay my electricity bill at my building's office and was told that I have to pay last month's electricity bill again. They said that a supervisor in the management office stole the electricity payments that were made last month and that she had disappeared.

Despite showing them a valid receipt for the payment, they say I have to pay that bill again (along with this month's bill) or my electricity will be turned off!

Even if the story they told me is true, the money was stolen from the building office and not from me. They are the ones who should take that loss. The building manager who hired the thief and who was responsible for supervising them.

But I'm not sure the story is true because I have the new bill (which comes directly from the electric board) which only shows this month's payment is due. If the last month's payment was not received by the electric board, wouldn't the new bill show the past due amount?

So I suspect that they are shaking me down (as well as some other tenants) - and that if I do pay the bill again, that money is going directly into the pocket of someone in the building management office.

Anybody have any insight into what's going on?

I'm renting, so I can just move out and lose my security deposit, which is what I will probably do if they actually turn off my electricity rather than pay that bill again.

btw I'm aware I can pay the electric bill at 7-11, which is what I wish I had done in the first place.

[ukrules]

I suggest telling them you paid your bill and the electric company got paid and you don't care about their problems and flat out refuse to pay anything extra. show them the new invoice with a zero balance, say your money didn't get stolen.

In the unlikely scenario that you do get cut off I suggest calling the electric company because this means that someone in the building is meddling with cables they should not be meddling with. You get a direct bill from the electric company so the management has nothing to do with it and it won't be a private meter running from a separate 'master account'.

Tell them you will do this (call the electric company) if the supply is cut as this gives them a chance to back off and try and regain their lost money from the others who live there.

I suspect you've been told a half truth and someone probably did 'do a runner' with whatever money was in the office at the time she did a runner, but the stolen money wasn't your specific money as your bill had already been paid. That's their fault and nothing to do with you.

If your bill hadn't been paid to the electric company then you would not really have any way around this apart from paying it again or moving out immediately and they would cut you off but that's not the case here.

Who owns the apartment you're renting ? I've found that when you pay the electric direct they're often owned by a single owner who's rentnig it out instead of being owned directly by someone who owns a whole chunk of the building. People who own multiple apartments in a building in my experience tend to have their own electric meters and charge more than the going rate for electricity, if they only have 1 or 2 apartments I don't think it's worth them bothering to do this. If you were to get in touch with the apartment owner and let them know what's happening I suspect they won't be too happy as it will be the owner who loses the you as a tennant - this costs the management company nothing.

I've heard of this kind of situation before, in fact something similar happened where I lived once but it was someone higher up in the quite large company which owns lots of expensive apartments who was doing the stealing from their bank accounts, I believe he was an acountant of some sort. The company involved in my case own entire floors of various buildings from what I understand.

They phoned me up asking all sorts of questions about which invoices I had paid and when I paid them saying that I might need to pay some months rents again, they were looking at invoices dating back several years and even though they knew I had paid directly into their bank account they somehow thought I might need to pay again because one of their staff had stolen the money.

At this point I let rip and told them what a bunch of morons I thought they were, I promised that I will never double pay any of the invoices and I had full receipts for every month going back about 3 years at the time. I then handed the phone over to my girlfriend who gave them a good going telling off in Thai.

They didn't phone back for a few months after that but they still wanted to double check I had proof of payment for every invoice, which of course I had - they never did come looking for copies of the invoices. This company probably lost millions of Baht which is unfortunate for them and they were investigating a long period of time, however every time I paid my monthly rent direct into their bank account I kept the paying in slip and they always mailed me a signed and dated receipt confirming payment which I kept. There's no point blaming the customer when one of the employees screws up and goes rogue.

I guess they think we're stupid.

I never paid an extra Baht in my case and they finally shut up after making the mistake of phoning me one morning when I was in a deep sleep. I told them to go themselves and never ever phone me again no matter what the reason, I don't want to know. They never did and I continued to live there for about another year before I left.

Edit : Always pay your own bills at the 7/11 if you have the chance !

Edited October 15, 2014 by ukrules

[A1Str8]

They can turn it off. Don't forget to tell them that you already contacted your lawyer and that they will see you in court soon since you have evidence.. the bills that they are lying and even if they are not, it is still not your responsibility.

Do not let money hungry sluts play with you.

[ukrules]

They can turn it off. Don't forget to tell them that you already contacted your lawyer and that they will see you in court soon since you have evidence.. the bills that they are lying and even if they are not, it is still not your responsibility.

Do not let money hungry sluts play with you.

If the bill comes directly form the electric company (which it does appear to) then they're not allowed to touch the power supply.

If anyone touches your power supply immediately phone the electric company and call them out.

[namdocmai]

I wouldn't pay any bill double.

One day my wife got a phonecall from the constructionshop where we had bought some materials 6 weeks we before.

They said they recalculated the bill and found out that they charged us 1500 baht to less. My wife also recalculated it and they were right so she went to pay them or the salesgirl had to pay the difference herself.

I wouldn't have paid that, if you can't add up a sum with a calculator then go to school but don't work as a salesgirl.

[ukrules]

I wouldn't pay any bill double.

One day my wife got a phonecall from the constructionshop where we had bought some materials 6 weeks we before.

They said they recalculated the bill and found out that they charged us 1500 baht to less. My wife also recalculated it and they were right so she went to pay them or the salesgirl had to pay the difference herself.

I wouldn't have paid that, if you can't add up a sum with a calculator then go to school but don't work as a salesgirl.

One thing I wouldn't do is pay twice for something I've only had once - that's not on.

I would have paid the 1500 Baht as it's the fair thing to do and I'm a reasonable guy. Not everyone can be smart and never make a mistake. Maybe one day I'll make a mistake and someone will be there to help me out.

[Gringoperdido]

Thanks very much for everybody's help - esp UKRules for all the advice. I suspect you're right about it being a half-truth.

I did contact the owner and gave notice I would be leaving - he surprised me by going to pay the bill himself rather than have me move out. Probably there is more to the story that I'll never know. Anyway - I'm off the hook now.

Can't tell you how much I appreciate all the timely advice. Was my first post. Frequently am baffled by Thai behavior - Nice to know there's such a supportive community to help out.

[MooKwai]

If the new bill comes direct from the electricity authority then it should be the sort you can pay at 7/11, if that's the case then the barcode on the bill relates to your account rather than the specific bill. You can take the bill to 7/11 and pay it, if the amount magically jumps to the amount on the bill plus the last one then I would clear it there and then, cutting out any potentially dishonest activity by the building managers.

Everyone saves face (which means this doesn't escalate) and if they are puling a fast one then they know that you're not a soft touch for next time.

[scorecard]

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If the new bill comes direct from the electricity authority then it should be the sort you can pay at 7/11, if that's the case then the barcode on the bill relates to your account rather than the specific bill. You can take the bill to 7/11 and pay it, if the amount magically jumps to the amount on the bill plus the last one then I would clear it there and then, cutting out any potentially dishonest activity by the building managers.

Everyone saves face (which means this doesn't escalate) and if they are puling a fast one then they know that you're not a soft touch for next time.

If the OP is meaning the slip issued on the spot by the meter reader I wonder if outstanding amounts (if any) are shown on that slip.

[scorecard]

This is why my old condo committee added another clause to the contract with the management company, who also employed all the staff.

Added clause something like: If any money or common property or equipment goes missing then the management company must cough up. They initially insisted the clause was illegal but when it came to telling them the contract would be terminated they accepted the new clause.

As it happened just after the clause was added two office girls did steal 3million Baht from the safe in the office.

The money should not have been there, it should have been banked weeks before it was stolen.

Everybody, including the security staff and the maintenance and garden staff had easy access to the keys.

The m'ment company was sued, one condo owner / occupier a high profile lawyer who scared the shit out of them with documents supposedly saying their personal property, vehicles etc., were about to be confiscated and sold, they paid up, general meeting held, m'ment company sacked.

Edited October 15, 2014 by scorecard

[ukrules]

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If the new bill comes direct from the electricity authority then it should be the sort you can pay at 7/11, if that's the case then the barcode on the bill relates to your account rather than the specific bill. You can take the bill to 7/11 and pay it, if the amount magically jumps to the amount on the bill plus the last one then I would clear it there and then, cutting out any potentially dishonest activity by the building managers.

Everyone saves face (which means this doesn't escalate) and if they are puling a fast one then they know that you're not a soft touch for next time.

If the OP is meaning the slip issued on the spot by the meter reader I wonder if outstanding amounts (if any) are shown on that slip.

Form what I've heard they can be very prompt at cutting off the supply when the bill is not paid on time, within days of the final due date sometimes but I believe this can vary a lot around the country.

If no payment is made it would normally be disconnected well before another bill is due to arrive.

[Gringoperdido]

Yes - that's the electric company's bill I was referring to - didn't realize that it came directly from the meter reader, but that makes sense. I can't tell if it shows a previous balance - it's in Thai. I'll have a Thai friend look at it and report back.

I think you are right - it would not take the electric company a whole month to let me know I missed a bill.

[soundman]

Topic title amended.

We cannot allow "name and shame" topics on this board due to Thailand's harsh and somewhat convoluted defamation laws.

[MooKwai]

I'm not sure if it does show an outstanding balance on the second bill.

What happened to me was I didn't get around to paying for one month and they reduced the times that I could pay (9-5, Mon-Fri or similar). I took one of my old bills into 7/11 coincidentally on the day that a new bill was produced so when I went to pay at lunch time it was twice what I thought it was going to be, managed to work out that it was covering two balances from talking to the staff and checking the receipt. When I got home sure enough there's the new bill in my mailbox, I can't remember for certain whether it had the old balance on there though.

Another thing is maybe to ask your neighbours or anyone you're on nodding terms with whether they're getting hit up for the same thing, maybe you can band together and tell the management to get forked, does mean likely raising the stakes though, it's possible that everyone else has told them to sod off and they've backed down.

[Gringoperdido]

Got a Thai friend to look at the new meter slip - it does say last months payment was not received.

But my landlord already paid for the money that apparently was stolen. So now no problem.

Thanks for all the advice.

[DisparateDan]

Tell them you are referring the issue to Thai Visa Lawyer (forum), and they should wait until they reply.

[frankold]

Why are you giving the money to anyone else if its direct payment to MEA?