Koh Tao murders: Father swears his son is innocent

[Sirbergan]

I've seen my part of extreme violence in this country, Thai people on Thai people. I've got no inside knowledge on this case, but the "Thai people wouldn't do such a thing" must be the most stupid argument I have ever seen.

One of my first encounters with violence in this country, many years ago, was when I parked my car as we were going to a concert. 10 or so people with batons and uniforms was chasing a teenager, who had blood running down his face. I wanted to get out of the car and do something, but my wife said they'd just turn on me instead,

[PaPiPuPePo]

Well there are hundreds of protesters marching to Downing Street today.

When people are protesting in the streets, then it shows the general feeling in the UK.

More fuel for the press.... I wonder how Prayuth would take it knowing that there are protests on the streets because of Thai police corruption, and probably military government corruption to boot.

How does he think that reflects on Thailand on the world stage??

Basically.... You have been found out. This time it is NOT going to go away.

Oh you poms are soooo important!!

In your dreams!

Well These things are debatable but in terms of economic clout we would be 6th or 7th in a global sense , where would Thailand or Oz be ?

And as much as I'm tired of the English seemingly always having to rag on Americans, The Brits have and continue to give us a lot of good music, books, films, and so on.

So, yeah, a history of invading and occupying other countries on the one hand, but on the other, for a country its size a lot of cultural exports that are enjoyed world-wide.

Edited October 17, 2014 by PaPiPuPePo

[SunsetT]

Mark Kent ? who the <deleted> is he, oh the British Ambassador another soft <deleted> like D Cameron Mr yesterdays man both talk the talk but CANNOT walk the walk

Mark Kent.......I think he turns into 'Superdiplomat' at night

[jdinasia]

OMG... Someone actually claiming that 80% of murder victims in Thailand are farang.

It just gets crazier!!!

[citizen33]

So, according to you. Pointing out a new story from the Beeb stating the post mortem shows exactly what I said it did, is intellectually dishonest???

I can't be bothered to get into a protracted discussion about this, especially with JD, whom I find to be intellectually slippery, but the BBC report contained only a summary of the causes of death. Earlier more detailed reports about the multiple wounds on Miller's body mention damage to his arms/hands. For example:

Maj Gen Pornchai Suteerakune, Thailand’s chief police forensics officer, told reporters that in addition to the severe wounds found on Mr Miller’s head, the examination had found an injury on his hand, indicating that a struggle may have taken place, according to the Associated Press.

http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/thailand-beach-murders-both-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller-suffered-severe-head-wounds-9738170.html

Indeed I think there are photographs on the Facebook site that has been mentioned on the forum.

Edited October 17, 2014 by citizen33

[harleyclarkey]

The pic of the Ambassador of a democratic sovereign state and representative of the Queen of England & duly accredited to the Kingdom of Thailand, 'wai-ing' lower than a regular civil servant, pains me!!!! Why has he got no self-respect and demeans the whole UK, whom he represents!!

Before you get your knickers in a twist, learn a little about Thai customs!!

Lower standing person wai's high, and the higher standing person replies with a low wai!!

On a sidenote, the civil servant represents the King of Thailand.

Getting so tired of all selfinflated high opinion regarding anything British!!

In general you are nice people, but time to realise that the Empire days are well and truly over!

JOC...have you this the wrong way around??

The lower standing person of course wais lower.

Wikipedia;

The higher the hands are held in relation to the face and the lower the bow, the more respect or reverencet the giver of the wai is showing.

[Beetlejuice]

Has anyone seen any suggestion anywhere that either of the two accused is some kind of martial arts expert capable (as the RTP claims) of single handedly killing a much bigger and stronger opponent without suffering any injury himself?

Hasn't anyone seen a young, small framed Burmese after a session on 1-2-call (this concoction of Kratom Leaf, powder from flourescent tubes, sansom, M150). That packs a wild punch and gives them phenomenal strength and destroys their ability to think straight. I witnessed it several times in my restaurant, even the most gentile of my staff. Similar effects from the Ya Ba. I wouldn't hang my hat on the fact they were 'too small' to do it.

Also one of the guys, although short in stature appears quite muscular and I would say; could easily overpower someone taller than him, especially if he was drugged up to the eyeballs, high on booze and drugs. Being shorter does not mean being weaker, having less strength and being less powerful. In the past some of my shortest male friends and acquaintances were some of the toughest guys I had ever known.

Don`t let those looks of bewilderment and the butter wouldn`t melt in my mouth expressions fool you, because although these scumbags may not be intelligent, they can still be sharp and as cunning as a &lt;deleted&gt; house rat.

[balo]

Its ridicilous to claim that small asian boys can't possibly fight a big british lad.

If you have witnessed small Thais in a fight against farang you know they will win , 3 against one and they are true fighters and never give up. Of course the Burmese guys could have done it, size doesnt matter here.

[BritTim]

Its ridicilous to claim that small asian boys can't possibly fight a big british lad.

If you have witnessed small Thais in a fight against farang you know they will win , 3 against one and they are true fighters and never give up. Of course the Burmese guys could have done it, size doesnt matter here.

I too have witnessed small Asian men besting larger opponents. I have seen trained Muay Thai fighters beating larger US marines. However, I repeat my original question: are the accused trained fighters? Even if they are, I would doubt their ability to escape a fight to the death unmarked. If (as I suspect) they were just regular guys, it is inconceivable to me that they would not have shown some evidence of being in such a fight.

[littlebw]

Police to examine DNA and duress claims in Thai case

British detectives travelling to investigate the backpacker murders in Thailand are expected to focus on independent checks of DNA samples central to the case against two Burmese men accused of the crime and their claims to have been mistreated.

Diplomatic sources said Thailand's military ruler accepted the sending of a delegation to investigate the killing of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller when pressed on the issue by David Cameron during their summit meeting.

Obviously it is for the Thai authorities to lead and carry out that judicial process. But it is important that it is fair and transparent and that both of the families can be reassured that it is the murderers that have been brought to justice.

There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One is the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification. And the second is the investigation into allegations of mistreatment of the suspects. What the PM secured this morning was agreement from the Thai PM that we can send some British police investigators to Kho Tao to work with the Royal Thai Police on this.

– DIPLOMATIC SOURCE

[diehard60]

One dirty, rich family protecting it's son's murderous acts & in effect teaching their son that murder is ok is destroying a perfectly good & morally intact family.

That is not good to say that. They have not been to court nor have they been convected of anything. Please get your facts right first.

[Trouble]

Quite honestly, with all the accusations being made in the media (Facebook CSI LA, etc.) I have become a little confused at what the facts really are at this point. Obviously the investigation has been completely bungled by the RTP. I think the whole world agrees here, well, except General P and the Generals of the RTP. I think what will really be key to the "prosecution" of the two Burmese is what evidence is presented in court. At that point the whole investigation will be open to the public and we will will learn, I fear, that the case is even more weak than all of us think. It would certainly be nice for all those who think the RTP is corrupt and inept if this proved to be true as it might bring about change, but on the other hand we all want the culprit(s) caught and punished. Many of us have concerns as to whether the Burmese men committed this crime and have just been made scapegoats. No one wants this case tried in the media. I can only hope that the opening of the investigation brings more answers than question but I am not confident of that.

With that being said, since we all know there is little in the way of justice in the Thai judicial system, if the good General were really the benevolent dictator many believe he is, then he should have immediately removed any local police from the investigation and removed them from the island when the case started to go south. He should have forced the RTP to bring in all independent investigators who would have the balls to tackle the case without knowing all the normally protected parties on the island. Since Thailand is now really a dictatorship he should have just told them to DNA test anyone even remotely involved with the deceased persons and all those, within reason, being pointed at by the public on the social media. It is really the ineptness of the RTP and their continuing conflicting news statements that have fueled the fires and they have only themselves to blame for the mess and the suspicion which surrounds this case.

Many of the questions raised by posters here and on Facebook are, in fact, valid questions that need to be answered and we can only hope that the investigative reports which will come out in court can be reviewed by the public and the defense and that all questions get answered so there is no question as to what is known and what is not known.

It will no doubt get more interesting as this prosecution proceeds. My only hope is that somewhere along the line the British were also able to get DNA samples from the bodies which can be independently used to verify whether there is or is not a match for the two Burmese men.

It is too bad that tourists don't just start boycotting the island. I visited there about 6 years ago and while a beautiful island the town where the backpackers hangout is basically a sh*thole with a crowded business area to capture money from the tourists. Even my Thai friend who lived there had stories to tell about the mafia like existence everyone is subjected to on Koh Tao. Lots of better places to go and hang out.

[xylophone]

Quote Trouble; "I have become a little confused at what the facts really are at this point".

Me too, although I have been trying to follow the key aspects of many threads and posts, I may have missed some, so here goes with some questions which more knowledgeable folks than I may be able to answer: –

1). It was reported that DNA tests from Hannah's breasts did not match DNA from the Burmese suspects. What has happened to this information, or was it just hearsay?

2). The marks on the back of David's head were clearly not inflicted by the hoe which was supposedly used, so what did cause them? This especially because the re-enactment of the crime, and the press release from the police, stated that the Burmese suspects had shown them how they had murdered the two poor people with the hoe.

3). Is it possible that DNA from the Burmese suspects could have been "planted" on the bodies, thereby making a DNA "match" a sure thing?

4). Lastly, has anything more been heard from the Scots guy as regards the murders?

Apologies if some of the above have been answered, however as I have said, I have endeavoured to seek them out, but to no avail.

[JacChang]

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If these two gets charged with murder, and the scums are not arrested.

I am going to North Korea and tearing my passport.

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Good... preconceived notions as you have always been welcomed there.

I'll be back.

Coming soon to a newspaper near you. (Hope they include my photo) That bastard chubby always steals the headline with full size photos.

[JacChang]

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The pic of the Ambassador of a democratic sovereign state and representative of the Queen of England & duly accredited to the Kingdom of Thailand, 'wai-ing' lower than a regular civil servant, pains me!!!! Why has he got no self-respect and demeans the whole UK, whom he represents!!

Before you get your knickers in a twist, learn a little about Thai customs!!

Lower standing person wai's high, and the higher standing person replies with a low wai!!

On a sidenote, the civil servant represents the King of Thailand.

Getting so tired of all selfinflated high opinion regarding anything British!!

In general you are nice people, but time to realise that the Empire days are well and truly over!

JOC...have you this the wrong way around??

The lower standing person of course wais lower.

Wikipedia;

The higher the hands are held in relation to the face and the lower the bow, the more respect or reverencet the giver of the wai is showing.

It's just a misunderstanding between you two. You two have both the right ideas even without Wikipedia's help.

Joc Said "Lower standing person wai's high, and the higher standing person replies with a low wai!!"

He means the lower status person must wai high, by putting his hands up to his face. The higher status just puts it on his chest as a reply of courtesy.

Joc just didn't mention the bending part. Lower status must bend more.

[Lozza]

Look into the eyes of this ice cold mother<Deleted!>- I'd trust him as far as I could thrown a piano! And I think one of his famous garden tools is the hoe...

Wow! Where did the group photo come from? Have the RTP seen this before? This puts the gut right next to the victim in very close proximity.

Has he ever been questioned, DNA tested?

The photos are from CSI LA - chubby and a few friends disappeared the day after the murder and returned after the burmese patsies were tortured into confession by the RTP. As far as I know they were not tested since they weren't there...

Is the guy with Hanna this guy with the hoe?

[spidermike007]

My son is such a good boy. He would not hurt a fly. Never. Well almost never. If a foreign man blocked his advances toward an unsuspecting, and pretty foreign woman, he might take a hoe to the back of his head, and he might kill the woman for the hell of it. But, I swear, there is nothing really wrong with that. We are a good family. We do not kill often. When we kill, there is always a good reason. I own the police, and even the army does not want to touch me, because that would represent upsetting the status quo in this country. I know that is never going to happen to super rich well connected families like ours, so no problem for me, or my son. I promise to ask him to start behaving himself. And last time I asked, he said he would not kill any more foreigners, since it has really hurt our business.

[MexicanFarang]

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.

But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

John 3:19-21

[Lozza]

The pic of the Ambassador of a democratic sovereign state and representative of the Queen of England & duly accredited to the Kingdom of Thailand, 'wai-ing' lower than a regular civil servant, pains me!!!! Why has he got no self-respect and demeans the whole UK, whom he represents!!

Before you get your knickers in a twist, learn a little about Thai customs!!

Lower standing person wai's high, and the higher standing person replies with a low wai!!

On a sidenote, the civil servant represents the King of Thailand.

Getting so tired of all selfinflated high opinion regarding anything British!!

In general you are nice people, but time to realise that the Empire days are well and truly over!

Can we leave the british government out of this. Take up your political debates on another forum.

[evadgib]

Has anyone seen any suggestion anywhere that either of the two accused is some kind of martial arts expert capable (as the RTP claims) of single handedly killing a much bigger and stronger opponent without suffering any injury himself?

Hasn't anyone seen a young, small framed Burmese after a session on 1-2-call (this concoction of Kratom Leaf, powder from flourescent tubes, sansom, M150). That packs a wild punch and gives them phenomenal strength and destroys their ability to think straight. I witnessed it several times in my restaurant, even the most gentile of my staff. Similar effects from the Ya Ba. I wouldn't hang my hat on the fact they were 'too small' to do it.

Also one of the guys, although short in stature appears quite muscular and I would say; could easily overpower someone taller than him, especially if he was drugged up to the eyeballs, high on booze and drugs. Being shorter does not mean being weaker, having less strength and being less powerful. In the past some of my shortest male friends and acquaintances were some of the toughest guys I had ever known.

Don`t let those looks of bewilderment and the butter wouldn`t melt in my mouth expressions fool you, because although these scumbags may not be intelligent, they can still be sharp and as cunning as a house rat.

A friend summed this up when i laughed that he was on the losing side of a fight with a male balerina while serving as a copper in uk:

"You're forgetting they've incredibly fit, have arms like popeye and can lift an adult above their head with one hand!".

Food for thought?

Edited October 18, 2014 by evadgib

[Lozza]

no idea what's happened here?

[foxteen]

Check out the new post on facebook from the Thai Community!

There is a new suspect who is employee of AC bar Nomsot and his uncle and seen with the victims.

He is of interest because

1.this man was one of the footballers who went to party at the AC bar which is the same night Hannah and David got murdered.

2.he had left Ko Tao immediately and came back after the Burmese men were arrested.

2. Has stingray tail ring that can inflict and seems to match the wounds suffered by David Miller, and Hannah Witheridge .. Pictures on CSI LA

3.This ring is seen in pictures on his left side hand... the wounds are mostly on Davids right side and suggest a series of left hand punches.

4. this man is of a size and build that may be able to overpower David.

4. This man was accused of trying to rape Supannee Deighton two years ago and escaped him by jumping from a balcony.. you can read her story

and see wounds she suffered .

Burmese workers on the island are also starting to speak up and say they saw The headman's son on the island drinking till 12am with Sean the night of the murders..

Im not saying this person did it or if what others say is true but it is worth looking at and forming your own opinion.

The police should be investigating all these leads there is picture evidence and in some areas expert testimony.. If the police were not covering up for someone they would be questioning and investigating all these leads.

Looks like the citizens are doing there job for them..

If the above is factual, I agree that this man could have been involved in the crime. Given his previous, he appears to be a more likely suspect than the two Burmese. Time for the RTP to find new evidence?

BTW - the above F/B link isn't operative.

I go along with you and should be investigate and why leave so long to do it

[BSJ]

There are too many unasked and unanswered questions. We have to keep discussing this on here and social media till the truth be heard.

[Oscar2]

HUH?

Hit by a massive blow to the head In a blitz attack and there is no fighting back.

This post is a perfect example of why you lack credibility on this forum. If you had taken the time to inform yourself about this case, you would know, as almost everybody else on these threads does, that David was killed by multiple stab wounds to the head and neck most likely from a punch knife, not a massive blow to the head. There is no way he was killed by a hoe. At the start of this case the police even said that it wasn't a hoe that had killed him.

You have probably posted more than any other on this case yet you don't even know this? I find that hard to believe.

This is just one of the many glaring inconsistencies in the current police line. They have said so many different things and have been shown to be at best incompetent, yet you still apparently trust them. Would you trust them with your life? I certainly wouldn't. I wouldn't trust them with the lives of these two poor, defenceless Burmese guys I've never met either.

What reason do you have for continually parroting the current police line? Is there some benefit to you if the two Burmese are convicted?

You said in another thread that you live on Koh Tao. Could this be in any way related?

Do you know more about this than you are willing to admit?

If he does in fact live on Koh Tao then it is interesting. But I don't recall him saying that.

I really enjoy people that make things up. Including the "punch knife" theory. Not to mention me living on KOH TAO.

Evidence suggests that David died from drowning after being incapacitated by massive head wounds. I am not a forensic pathologist. I am certain that seahorse isn't either. I do know from experience that wounds are not always caused the way amateur sleuths think.

it now seems almost certain the wounds to the male victim's face and neck were caused by the stingray tail ring, same as the Thai lady who was assaulted by the same piece of filth.

[jdinasia]

HUH?

Hit by a massive blow to the head In a blitz attack and there is no fighting back.

This post is a perfect example of why you lack credibility on this forum. If you had taken the time to inform yourself about this case, you would know, as almost everybody else on these threads does, that David was killed by multiple stab wounds to the head and neck most likely from a punch knife, not a massive blow to the head. There is no way he was killed by a hoe. At the start of this case the police even said that it wasn't a hoe that had killed him.

You have probably posted more than any other on this case yet you don't even know this? I find that hard to believe.

This is just one of the many glaring inconsistencies in the current police line. They have said so many different things and have been shown to be at best incompetent, yet you still apparently trust them. Would you trust them with your life? I certainly wouldn't. I wouldn't trust them with the lives of these two poor, defenceless Burmese guys I've never met either.

What reason do you have for continually parroting the current police line? Is there some benefit to you if the two Burmese are convicted?

You said in another thread that you live on Koh Tao. Could this be in any way related?

Do you know more about this than you are willing to admit?

If he does in fact live on Koh Tao then it is interesting. But I don't recall him saying that.

I really enjoy people that make things up. Including the "punch knife" theory. Not to mention me living on KOH TAO.

Evidence suggests that David died from drowning after being incapacitated by massive head wounds. I am not a forensic pathologist. I am certain that seahorse isn't either. I do know from experience that wounds are not always caused the way amateur sleuths think.

it now seems almost certain the wounds to the male victim's face and neck were caused by the stingray tail ring, same as the Thai lady who was assaulted by the same piece of filth.

"seems almost absolutely certain "... Not a dagger... Or a push knife... ETC etc etc etc etc?????

[jdinasia]

I was hoping to have an answer as to why it seems "almost absolutely certain"...

So far people have been absolutely certain that Sean did it with a push knife.. That he was even wearing one around his neck...

And people have been certain that it was a dagger....

But it appears that the cause of death was a massive blow to the head and drowning.

Edited October 19, 2014 by jdinasia

[MikePhuket1970]

To the situation of Nomsod

Every innocent person who gets in this situation with

all the public and worldwide media pressure

would raise the arm and say

take my DNA and let me live my life now

but he is hiding and i know the reason and you know it

[ttthailand]

This act was done by animals. Two or three people would not do something like this without a reason. What reason did the Burmese guys have ??? On the other hand we have all seen what Thais will do when loss of face or being rejected by a female. Look at the Thais kicking a guy who is already down just out of hatred.

[Gonsalviz]

And he has enough money to make that swearing stick.

[jdinasia]

Obviously ttthailand has not been to Burma (and thinks the cultures are vastly different.) perhaps he missed the stories about the Rohingya killings led by monks there?