Thailand agrees to British police help over murders

[Johnsen]

Why was Nomsods father allowed on the crime scene. Why would he want to be there. I find that very strange. Could any member of the public simply pop over and help out...

[orange31]

Surely the Thai police could (in theory, assuming verious things) hand the UK police the Burmese Guys' DNA, and say that this is the DNA we found at the crime scene... couldn't they?

[elektrified]

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

Of course they did. They are complete pro's, just like American cops, German cops, etc. Just because they didn't inform you or anyone else in the media - they always do their job.

Knock the Brits, the Americans, the Aussies, etc. all you want. But one thing for sure, they all have well-trained professional cops.

[minikev]

Good at sniffing out porkie pies is the plod.

Indeed they are. And very good, usually, at digging out all the detail and evidence. It's the detail that often catches the criminals.

The British police won't normally allow the media or social media to influence them. They won't come with pre-decided opinions of guilt and innocence based on the wild speculations on social media sites, hearsay, and contradictory press reports allegedly based on "police sources".

I would imagine the chubby footballer with the shark tooth ring, photographed close to Hannah in a group photo on the night might be a witness they'd like to question. Along with some people on the island or those who have since moved to other parts of Thailand. The independent DNA tests will provide an answer on the 2 current suspects. Hopefully they have their own DNA samples from the victim, can confirm if there was a third sample as a Thai forensics person said on TV, and can take samples from the suspects themselves.

I'm sure the team sent will be selected very carefully.

You should look at a few details too.

The Thai forensic person said there was DNA from 2 people not 3. Sorry to repeat myself but I think a false piece of information like that can dramatically influence a persons view.

[WitawatWatawit]

Thank you very much, WB, for this clear, extensive and re-assuring information. I am not a British national so I don't know what the standard procedure may be in that country, and I only very occasionally read the British press. So once again, thanks for your input.

One can only hope that the truth will come out fast, then.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has the creeps thinking not only about those two young tourists being savagely murdered on Koh Tao, but also about the two Burmese guys who may be innocent and perhaps deliberately framed. Now, if they are innocent and the fact is proved by reliable investigators, this country's reputation will be dealt a blow in the face like never before. And I, for one, will not be clapping my hands in joy but feel sorry for all the Thais who are not crooked, not corrupt, not invoved in mafia activities and who do not deserve to be vilified and bashed by the sad racist lot on this forum who never tire of negative generalizing about the country where they live.

WB's idea of standard procedures isn't correct. It's not standard procedure to automatically carry out a post mortem in every death. In suspicious circumstances, or where the cause of death is not readily obvious, then the police will want to check. Where the death is line with on ongoing condition, illness, and there are no signs of anything unusual the police will not request one.

There have been no reports of what examinations and tests, if any, occurred in Britain. That should become more obvious now. Hopefully they have carried out checks and have their own reports and samples available rather than relying on the information provided.

BB, you sure? A PM examination is, as far as I'm aware, standard procedure in all deaths and a report is presented to a coroner for final declaration of the death certificate. What isn't is a forensic examination.

[Yann55]

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

Of course they did. They are complete pro's, just like American cops, German cops, etc. Just because they didn't inform you or anyone else in the media - they always do their job.

Knock the Brits, the Americans, the Aussies, etc. all you want. But one thing for sure, they all have well-trained professional cops.

Who's knocking who and what's with the useless aggressiveness ? Are you missing your first beer of the day or something ? I was merely trying to find out what had - or had not - been done.

[Baerboxer]

Proving it's not these two Burmese lads is fairly easy. Once it's proved it's not them then, hopefully the real culprits are caught....

Unlike you Franky, the British police won't decide who is guilty or innocent before actually knowing.

They already know. MI6 exists for a reason & they are not fools.

You really think Britain's MI6 exists would get involved? Don't you think they might be a little busy doing their real job at the moment? Do you know what their remit is?

Maybe the SAS and SBS are already here in droves too. Disguised as tourists sitting on bar stools recounting their adventures, or dive instructors, or TEFLers?

[kkup]

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Surely the Thai police could (in theory, assuming verious things) hand the UK police the Burmese Guys' DNA, and say that this is the DNA we found at the crime scene... couldn't they?

I doubt that would cut the mustard.

[Neeranam]

Why was Nomsods father allowed on the crime scene. Why would he want to be there. I find that very strange. Could any member of the public simply pop over and help out...

Because he owns the island and the police.

He could literally get away with murder anything.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Neeranam

[elektrified]

All nice and good.. but lets wait what happens. Remember these are people who don't speak Thai, I wonder if they take an independent translator with them.

If they are being stonewalled still nothing will happen.

Huh? Of course the British detectives will send some of their Thai and Burmese speaking detectives with them. Remember, these are PROFESSIONAL police. Do you really think they will forget about this issue????

[orange31]

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

Of course they did. They are complete pro's, just like American cops, German cops, etc. Just because they didn't inform you or anyone else in the media - they always do their job.

Knock the Brits, the Americans, the Aussies, etc. all you want. But one thing for sure, they all have well-trained professional cops.

When was her body repatriated to the UK? Was there enough time for her corpse to be 'cleaned' and then inseminated with the Burmese guys's DNA? Just saying ...

[sweatalot]

Where is john in his various guises?

Seems he is quiete since I mentioned the second time that a motive for posting like him could be being involved in the crime and being happy with scapegoats.

I posted this the first time about a week ago and after that he also seemed to disappear for a few days

Edited October 18, 2014 by sweatalot

[umbanda]

Now this is getting interesting.....Looks like the PM really wants "transparency" and that is very good...Makes me like him even more....but....probably he will confront internal problems with high Police authorities and other "hidden" powers.....

Will be a hard test I hope he will pass....

Edited October 18, 2014 by umbanda

[kkup]

We are dealing with professional coppas here, I doubt they will forget their lunch.

[ScubaPhuket]

Proving it's not these two Burmese lads is fairly easy. Once it's proved it's not them then, hopefully the real culprits are caught....

Unlike you Franky, the British police won't decide who is guilty or innocent before actually knowing.

They already know. MI6 exists for a reason & they are not fools.

You really think Britain's MI6 exists would get involved? Don't you think they might be a little busy doing their real job at the moment? Do you know what their remit is?

Maybe the SAS and SBS are already here in droves too. Disguised as tourists sitting on bar stools recounting their adventures, or dive instructors, or TEFLers?

Wow... you're waking up.

[elektrified]

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

Of course they did. They are complete pro's, just like American cops, German cops, etc. Just because they didn't inform you or anyone else in the media - they always do their job.

Knock the Brits, the Americans, the Aussies, etc. all you want. But one thing for sure, they all have well-trained professional cops.

Who's knocking who and what's with the useless aggressiveness ? Are you missing your first beer of the day or something ? I was merely trying to find out what had - or had not - been done.

It wasn't directed at you. Sorry if it seemed that way. Generally speaking to all those who are so critical of the British cops.

[thailandchilli]

Surely the Thai police could (in theory, assuming verious things) hand the UK police the Burmese Guys' DNA, and say that this is the DNA we found at the crime scene... couldn't they?

Yes the Thai police could try this but the UK force are here to ensure there is an independent DNA analysis and they will not leave until thats carried out.

[chrisrazz]

Proving it's not these two Burmese lads is fairly easy. Once it's proved it's not them then, hopefully the real culprits are caught....

Unlike you Franky, the British police won't decide who is guilty or innocent before actually knowing.

They already know. MI6 exists for a reason & they are not fools.

For this reason, I suspect that Cameron felt compelled to 'chat' with Prayuth. I seriously doubt Cameron would act on the basis of a petition, though it helps to make him look good.

[AGareth2]

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

Of course they did. They are complete pro's, just like American cops, German cops, etc. Just because they didn't inform you or anyone else in the media - they always do their job.

Knock the Brits, the Americans, the Aussies, etc. all you want. But one thing for sure, they all have well-trained professional cops.

do you have proof of this?

[lildragon]

Finally. Now if it turns out to be these Burmese lads I will swallow humble pie, but I still doubt their guilt. Hopefully now we can get some real answers.

This will cause shock waves through the police, heads will roll and it is EXACTLY what is needed.

[Benmart]

Some complained when the UK Police were not allowed in. Some complain now that they are allowed in as being too late, not being given the freedom to investigate, etc.

Complaining seems to be a by-product of the self-centered, negative and sad minority.

[Baerboxer]

Thank you very much, WB, for this clear, extensive and re-assuring information. I am not a British national so I don't know what the standard procedure may be in that country, and I only very occasionally read the British press. So once again, thanks for your input.

One can only hope that the truth will come out fast, then.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has the creeps thinking not only about those two young tourists being savagely murdered on Koh Tao, but also about the two Burmese guys who may be innocent and perhaps deliberately framed. Now, if they are innocent and the fact is proved by reliable investigators, this country's reputation will be dealt a blow in the face like never before. And I, for one, will not be clapping my hands in joy but feel sorry for all the Thais who are not crooked, not corrupt, not invoved in mafia activities and who do not deserve to be vilified and bashed by the sad racist lot on this forum who never tire of negative generalizing about the country where they live.

WB's idea of standard procedures isn't correct. It's not standard procedure to automatically carry out a post mortem in every death. In suspicious circumstances, or where the cause of death is not readily obvious, then the police will want to check. Where the death is line with on ongoing condition, illness, and there are no signs of anything unusual the police will not request one.

There have been no reports of what examinations and tests, if any, occurred in Britain. That should become more obvious now. Hopefully they have carried out checks and have their own reports and samples available rather than relying on the information provided.

BB, you sure? A PM examination is, as far as I'm aware, standard procedure in all deaths and a report is presented to a coroner for final declaration of the death certificate. What isn't is a forensic examination.

No mate. Not in all deaths. If a doctor treating the deceased certifies that the deceased died due to a condition or illness that was known and under treatment then that will suffice. Normally, the next of kin will have a discussion with the policeman responsible for this. Most forces usually give that job to a senior (in years of service) mature "bobby" who is tactful.

Unfortunately I've had that discussion several times about parents and various relatives. Most police forces in the UK act sensibly and in a way to minimize distress to the family. It's only if things are not certain or suspicious in some way they insist. Obviously murder would normally be subject to post mortem. But not sure how being murdered overseas would affect this, and given the horrendous circumstances, the police family support officers would wish to minimize any further distress.

[bertty]

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

Of course they did. They are complete pro's, just like American cops, German cops, etc. Just because they didn't inform you or anyone else in the media - they always do their job.

Knock the Brits, the Americans, the Aussies, etc. all you want. But one thing for sure, they all have well-trained professional cops.

When was her body repatriated to the UK? Was there enough time for her corpse to be 'cleaned' and then inseminated with the Burmese guys's DNA? Just saying ...

Are you really that dense ?

[ScubaPhuket]

Some complained when the UK Police were not allowed in. Some complain now that they are allowed in as being too late, not being given the freedom to investigate, etc.

Complaining seems to be a by-product of the self-centered, negative and sad minority.

You mean majority surely.

[Franky Bear]

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

Of course they did. They are complete pro's, just like American cops, German cops, etc. Just because they didn't inform you or anyone else in the media - they always do their job.

Knock the Brits, the Americans, the Aussies, etc. all you want. But one thing for sure, they all have well-trained professional cops.

do you have proof of this?

You're not the brightest are you....

[ScubaPhuket]

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

Of course they did. They are complete pro's, just like American cops, German cops, etc. Just because they didn't inform you or anyone else in the media - they always do their job.

Knock the Brits, the Americans, the Aussies, etc. all you want. But one thing for sure, they all have well-trained professional cops.

do you have proof of this?

No he doesn't, you have to read the news for decades & have freedom of thought to come to his conclusion.

[robblok]

"One is the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification."

But will they be permitted to obtain their own samples?

If not then that is what they'll report. That will be just as damning in the eyes of the international community as finding evidence of a cover up leading to ????

"Would you like the continuation of tax incentives for Thai businesses invested in the UK? Maybe the travel advisory we are serving at the moment is not really helping your tourism projections? What could we do to solve this problem?"

I'm sorry if this comes across in anyway insensitive, but I cannot understand how the police force of a foreign country can be involved in ANY way in an investigation in Thailand. This is not a third world country. If this horrible event had happened in say AU, I cannot imagine the Australian govt saying to UK government "your welcome to give us a hand...."

It is easy to understand how this works. It is called diplomacy. For all the "you're not an empire anymore" rubbish spouted people tend to ignore the simple fact that the UK has the 8th largest economy in the world. For 2 nations of almost identical population sizes it is quite stark to note that the UK economy is 3,720 times the size of Thailand's. That can get round a lot of the "this is an affront to our sovereignty!" c*4p being spouted by ego-bruised senior police in Thailand.

You are indeed not an empire anymore and your an optimist. I am feel that its a step in the right direction but if they are stonewalled then nothing will happen.

Remember what the Saudies did.. and how it has helped them (no result) .. will the UK go that far ? I doubt it.

[Baerboxer]

They already know. MI6 exists for a reason & they are not fools.

You really think Britain's MI6 exists would get involved? Don't you think they might be a little busy doing their real job at the moment? Do you know what their remit is?

Maybe the SAS and SBS are already here in droves too. Disguised as tourists sitting on bar stools recounting their adventures, or dive instructors, or TEFLers?

Wow... you're waking up.

Unlike some.

Relax on that compressed air intake.

[Franky Bear]

You can't compare this to the Blue Diamond issue. It's night and day. The only people here that will suffer in reality are a few cops and the killers (hopefully)

If you know about the blue diamond case, well...... you'll know who is allegedly involved, that's why people were bumped off.

[UDONJIM]

After the endless, complicated and contradictory developments and comments concerning this case, it seems to me that it all boils down to one very simple FIRST action, at this stage, for the British investigators to perform : take a DNA sample from the two Burmese guys, with enough witnesses around so that the authenticity of the samples cannot later be questioned, and then compare them with the DNA that the British investigators have taken in Britain from the body.

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

If the DNA of the Burmese guys is compared with samples provided by the Thai police, there will be no end to suspicion of foul play.

The whole system of evidence based on DNA works on the assumption that no one tampers with the samples because the people who perform the sampling are trustworthy and eager to serve true justice. If and when the people in question become suspicious in the eyes of the public and/or the press, then the whole process amounts to nothing, and so called evidence is rightly seen as potential manipulation.

I think you will find it a matter of standard procedure that post mortems are performed with every death in the UK... Especially in the case of a crime.

No matter where it is committed, the autopsy is done and evidence is collected. That is standard procedure.

There is also an investigation opened even if it is out of their jurisdiction. British people were murdered and the police must open an investigation even if they can do nothing hands on and no matter how limited it is, evidence must be collected. That is also standard procedure.

I also read that a team of murder investigators have already been appointed weeks ago... This was mentioned in the UK press covering Hannah's funeral.

I also read at the time the repatriation of the bodies was being reported that police forensics would be taking DNA samples.

As already mentioned.... It is difficult to sanitise a body totally to remove all DNA traces... It is almost impossible to remove and replace with misleading random DNA to throw police off the scent without it showing up to the trained forensic eye. They are too well trained.

But the thing that will be a problem for the BIB if there is indeed a cover up... The bodies were released after just a few days and repatriated immediately.... At that time, police were looking for farangs if you remember?

There had been no mention about Sean McCanna or Village Headsmen's family members, or anything else that would have triggered a cover up. That came about a week after the bodies already left Thailand.

So at the time there was very little need to tamper with DNA...... But a lot happened after that. Now it is widely suspected of a cover up, and to be quite honest..... I don't think the RTP have a snowball's chance in hell of keeping it going let alone 'credible'.

I can really see a lot of people fleeing not only the island, but Thailand itself.... Including police..... and they do.