UK cops 'to only observe'

[Franky Bear]

Some amount of absolute Bull Poop in this thread.

here's an idea. Why not sit back and wait till the British Cops are on site, then give them a day or two to settle and see what they have to say. The British press have a big part to play too as they won't be scared of printing anything about the time the Brit cops are here and any obstacles they encounter.

Time for some people to stand well away from a keyboard and stop ingesting LSD

Why would you expect any statement from the UK police? Not their job to comment. If they did (instead of the FO) that would certainly end their involvement even as observers.

The rest is simply attacking posters who see things differently.

Step away from the computer. Step away from the computer Step away from the computer. Step away from the computer Step away from the computer. Step away from the computer Step away from the computer. Step away from the computer

[jpeg]

the difference is the british police do there job don't take tea money ,wish i had to pay 200 bt every time i got stopped for speeding in the UK ,

Even Prince Charles was fined for speeding!

No way! That is a totally screwed up system if the future king is given a speeding fine.

Why? No-one should be above the law, what's so special about Prince Charles?

You couldn't even contemplate making such a statement in public in Thailand.

As wouldn't be needed with all roads blocked off and cleared from traffic an hour before a privileged vehicle passes at the speed of choice.

And Princess Anne was prosecuted for a dog attack. So there.

[RTH10260]

Traps set and ready to bite,,,,A British PM does not get involved in a matter like this for no reason. The British know there is a miscarriage of justice going down here......

And it's unacceptable and they will do everything in there power to stop it.

Britain on its own has no power, but when included with Europe, USA and maybe Japan ...thats power

A travel warning against Thailand issued by the former would be devastating for Thailand.

These guys, whatever their role, will smell a rat a mile away and be on it.

I believe the 'rat' has already been smelled

The trap? In the UK I believe this is also called election day

[DennisF]

This thread has run its course. There is nothing here except ladies with handbags at 10 paces arguing over differing opinions.

None of us KNOW anything, why not just be quiet and watch wait happens when the Brits arrive and make any comments?

Until then its just a useless pi55ing contest.

I am unsubscribed.

Have a great day folks.

[RTH10260]

Absolutely, no doubt the British police have already been collecting their evidence, interviewing all Hannahs and Davids friends who were there with them as well as Sean. Its plain obvious this will have been done. Its time for Thailand to realise the games going to be over very very soon and if they obstruct the British police in their endeavors then the UK will make this plain to the world and Thailand that this has been a complete cover up for the sake of a few influential people. It does not bode well for Thailand now or in the future.

Traps set and ready to bite,,,,A British PM does not get involved in a matter like this for no reason. The British know there is a miscarriage of justice going down here......

And it's unacceptable and they will do everything in there power to stop it.

Britain on its own has no power, but when included with Europe, USA and maybe Japan ...thats power

A travel warning against Thailand issued by the former would be devastating for Thailand.

These guys, whatever their role, will smell a rat a mile away and be on it.

I believe the 'rat' has already been smelled

with the minor detail that any such interview done in the UK has exactly null value in Thailand.

[BritTim]

I would have to see that statistic from a reasonable source that takes population and oversight into account. The UK is tiny yet just yesterday there was a story about police corruption.

The issue, of course, is the credibility of UK police and their observer status.

Link to reasonable source on corrupt police getting caught that knows that population wise UK is not tiny

there is no issue except on these forum, the UK police like any other police , collect evidence for the prosecution, now maybe you are not understanding this statement, what this means is that every police force in the world has a single function, that function is to collect information (evidence) for the purpose of securing a conviction in a court of law. they are not interested in what really happened they are interested in only providing evidence for the prosecutors to use in court to win, they do not collect evidence for the defence they do not collect information for the public, they do not collect proof for family members they collect evidence for the prosecution.

What this means in relation to this case -:

in an advisory or observers role the UK police will look at the evidence the Thai police have and assist them in firming up the evidence they have to secure the conviction of the suspects, they are not there to discredit the Thai police they are not there to find new suspects they are there to assist/advise/observe the collection of the evidence for the prosecution of the suspects in this case , they are not opening a new case, they are not searching for evidence to convict someone for corruption they are there as a PR exercise to make the British public feel better about this investigation.

Do I think these 2 people are the ones that committed these crimes?

how the hell would I know I have exactly the same access to the evidence that everyone else here does, none, not one iota, absolutely zero, that's right all the arm chair experts here are basing all their knowledge of this case on some poorly translated suspect reporting in newspaper articles or in legal terms "hearsay" not admissible in any court in any country in the world (at least any with a functioning legal system)

do I think the Thai police are honest?

no, no police are honest, that is not their function nor is it their job. Their job is to collect evidence for the prosecution.

I would agree. However, if they see exculpatory evidence I would think they would point that out too.

then you would be thinking incorrectly, The function of police is to collect evidence for the prosecution it is not their function to collect evidence for the defence.

A correctly functioning police force has many different functions. The main one is protecting the public by deterring crime. Once a crime has been committed, they need to first identify the real perpetrators and then ensure that they collect as much evidence as possible to assist prosecutors in securing a conviction. They absolutely should not be ignoring evidence that may point to others being guilty of the crime. Do the police everywhere always carry out their duties properly and honestly? No,. Corruption, laziness, desire to impress superiors and other factors may derail some investigations. That said, there are plenty of places where the police generally operate in an honest and transparent manner.

[jdinasia]

I would have to see that statistic from a reasonable source that takes population and oversight into account. The UK is tiny yet just yesterday there was a story about police corruption.

The issue, of course, is the credibility of UK police and their observer status.

Link to reasonable source on corrupt police getting caught that knows that population wise UK is not tiny

there is no issue except on these forum, the UK police like any other police , collect evidence for the prosecution, now maybe you are not understanding this statement, what this means is that every police force in the world has a single function, that function is to collect information (evidence) for the purpose of securing a conviction in a court of law. they are not interested in what really happened they are interested in only providing evidence for the prosecutors to use in court to win, they do not collect evidence for the defence they do not collect information for the public, they do not collect proof for family members they collect evidence for the prosecution.

What this means in relation to this case -:

in an advisory or observers role the UK police will look at the evidence the Thai police have and assist them in firming up the evidence they have to secure the conviction of the suspects, they are not there to discredit the Thai police they are not there to find new suspects they are there to assist/advise/observe the collection of the evidence for the prosecution of the suspects in this case , they are not opening a new case, they are not searching for evidence to convict someone for corruption they are there as a PR exercise to make the British public feel better about this investigation.

Do I think these 2 people are the ones that committed these crimes?

how the hell would I know I have exactly the same access to the evidence that everyone else here does, none, not one iota, absolutely zero, that's right all the arm chair experts here are basing all their knowledge of this case on some poorly translated suspect reporting in newspaper articles or in legal terms "hearsay" not admissible in any court in any country in the world (at least any with a functioning legal system)

do I think the Thai police are honest?

no, no police are honest, that is not their function nor is it their job. Their job is to collect evidence for the prosecution.

I would agree. However, if they see exculpatory evidence I would think they would point that out too.

then you would be thinking incorrectly, The function of police is to collect evidence for the prosecution it is not their function to collect evidence for the defence.

Perhaps this is true in Thailand. It is not true in many other places ; including the USofA and the UK.

[PaPiPuPePo]

*Edited*

What he should be doing is shirt fronting him in front of the world by upping travel warnings to Thailand and forcing insurance premiums up so people won't travel there until the British people get satisfactory answers and assurances that the investigation is above board and free of interference .

Edited once again

until the TV conspiracy brigade British people get satisfactory the answers they like to hear.

No matter what is said, they will hear what they want. And what they want is anything they can use or twist to help them handle their feelings of inferiority in Thailand by putting on a false sense of superiority towards in Thailand with more money and power than them actually pretty much anyone in Thailand down to the much more financially challenged Thai who as an example get to pay a couple dollars less to go to places like their own State Parks.

What seems clear in many of these folks posts is that they are not motivated by a desire to see justice for the victims but rather to display and promote an anger towards Thailand and a desire to see Thailand suffer.

It is as a clear cut case they got the right people in this case as it was for the train rapist murderer of the young girl .... initially suspects wrong, over looked the right person, conflicting stories in the press, confession, DNA match, friend's testimony and so on. But didn't see anyone then suggesting sending money to the suspect as I have seen with this case. They don't want to see justice, they want to see Thailand be proved wrong to help themselves feel good.

B$L%S41T. You are out of touch with reality. This is not about Thailand being wrong this is about a cover up of the real killers.

@ JTJ Seconding you: Yes because a train is just like a heavily-touristed island with powerful families living on it.

Along with the "the Brits want the Thais to surrender their sovereignty" this misdirection at other unrelated cases is one of the favourite gambits of these defenders of the farcical so-called investigation. Whether trolling or not responding's probably a waste of time to respond (not that I've learned that lesson yet, obviously).

[JLCrab]

From above Post #535:

... every police force in the world has a single function, that function is to collect information (evidence) for the purpose of securing a conviction in a court of law. they are not interested in what really happened they are interested in only providing evidence for the prosecutors to use in court to win, they do not collect evidence for the defence they do not collect information for the public, they do not collect proof for family members they collect evidence for the prosecution.

The US Supreme Court determined what has been called a 'Brady disclosure' in 1963. From Wikipedia:

'Brady disclosure' consists of exculpatory or impeaching information and evidence that is material to the guilt or innocence or to the punishment of a defendant. The term comes from the U.S. Supreme Court case, Brady v. Maryland, in which the Supreme Court ruled that suppression by the prosecution of evidence favorable to a defendant who has requested it violates due process. Following Brady, the prosecutor must disclose evidence or information that would prove the innocence of the defendant or would enable the defense to more effectively impeach the credibility of government witnesses. Evidence that would serve to reduce the defendant's sentence must also be disclosed by the prosecution.

[PaPiPuPePo]

... the only thing I am that applies to this topic is that I am logical and not emotional about the case or do I have any other motives than seeing what is almost surely likely and what is very implausible.

That one sentence is enough to make it clear how either unaware or disingenuous you are. You have spent thousands of words backing one version of events. That without doubt contradicts the first part, and may well the second, since your tireless defence of your OPINION in the face of so much evidence to the contrary may well be because you have an agenda.

I've been reading parts of your various posts, wondering if you really have such low self-awareness or if it's intentional deception. The sentence above really distills so many of your comments that I had to respond to you directly. I won't however get pulled into a debate with you, sorry to disappoint.

[PaPiPuPePo]

From above Post #535:

... every police force in the world has a single function, that function is to collect information (evidence) for the purpose of securing a conviction in a court of law. they are not interested in what really happened they are interested in only providing evidence for the prosecutors to use in court to win, they do not collect evidence for the defence they do not collect information for the public, they do not collect proof for family members they collect evidence for the prosecution.

The US Supreme Court determined what has been called a 'Brady disclosure' in 1963. From Wikipedia:

'Brady disclosure' consists of exculpatory or impeaching information and evidence that is material to the guilt or innocence or to the punishment of a defendant. The term comes from the U.S. Supreme Court case, Brady v. Maryland, in which the Supreme Court ruled that suppression by the prosecution of evidence favorable to a defendant who has requested it violates due process. Following Brady, the prosecutor must disclose evidence or information that would prove the innocence of the defendant or would enable the defense to more effectively impeach the credibility of government witnesses. Evidence that would serve to reduce the defendant's sentence must also be disclosed by the prosecution.

The OP obviously pulled what he said out of his lower orifice but thanks for going to the trouble to set the record straight.

This is all about transparency, so those who are against this cooperation for any reason are by intent or not against transparency in this investigation.

[bertty]

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You are one sick individual.

If so, the sickness comes from fact. As emotional and even traumatic for some as this case is, it will be forgotten to the masses in a relatively short time.

This is human nature; if people were to remember all the tragedies that happen in this world, there would not be enough asylums to house them all.

So does remembering tragedies = mad people ? Millions of people have died in my life time in tragic circumstances, cant say I've never felt the need for a visit to the nut house... Mind you I'm not American.

Strange argument you post.

Have you remembered the details of the millions of people that have died during your lifetime? Or even a tiny percentage of them?

Yes, you may remember the events, but the details will be locked in a dark place. It is a safety feature of the human mind that the details fade.

However this is just a personal observation, trick cyclists may have a different take on it. I do know for a fact that the many incidents where I was present that death or serious injury were involved in my earlier days became thankfully vague after a short period.

Perhaps my previous post should have read details and not events are forgotten?

BTW, nor am I an American, not sure what that has to do with it?

So are you saying you witnessed the killings on the island ?

[Artisi]

Ridiculous to suggest Thailand has something to hide because they are protecting their Sovereignty and doing what any other country would do if they are capable of solving a criminal case on their own.

It is like saying somebody must be guilty because they refuse to talk to police accusing them of a crime without giving up their right to have a lawyer present.

pics of suspects on the crime scene

pics of influential politician with suspects

1 milion baht reward smelling like an incentive to cover evidence

ridicolous statements as "thais cant commit a gruesome crime like this"

and much more

not sure they are capable of solving this criminal case

not sure they are motivated to solve this criminal case

Quote. not sure they are motivated to solve this criminal case Unquote. Maybe a vast amount of the necessary incentive dulls the motivation somewhat.

[Artisi]

He also told reporters that Cameron expected the British public to "take some more time to understand this matter".

How about "it will take some time before Thai authorities understands that this will not go away and the UK is watching and ............. judging"

Happens when military trained minds attent international meetings rather than diplomats.

Keeps me wondering how many in the Thai foreign service are waiting for the General to trip and faceplant. I guess Thai tradition will keep staff from warning of the banana peel in the way.

Would suggest there has already been a number of "faceplants" ably assisted by a few who have had toes trodden on.

[Somtamnication]

From above Post #535:

... every police force in the world has a single function, that function is to collect information (evidence) for the purpose of securing a conviction in a court of law. they are not interested in what really happened they are interested in only providing evidence for the prosecutors to use in court to win, they do not collect evidence for the defence they do not collect information for the public, they do not collect proof for family members they collect evidence for the prosecution.

The US Supreme Court determined what has been called a 'Brady disclosure' in 1963. From Wikipedia:

'Brady disclosure' consists of exculpatory or impeaching information and evidence that is material to the guilt or innocence or to the punishment of a defendant. The term comes from the U.S. Supreme Court case, Brady v. Maryland, in which the Supreme Court ruled that suppression by the prosecution of evidence favorable to a defendant who has requested it violates due process. Following Brady, the prosecutor must disclose evidence or information that would prove the innocence of the defendant or would enable the defense to more effectively impeach the credibility of government witnesses. Evidence that would serve to reduce the defendant's sentence must also be disclosed by the prosecution.

Already then. It fits Thailand perfectly!!

[les Dennis]

So when do they arrive then ?

[Bleacher Bum East]

The debate about the role that the UK government can and should play in the investigation of Hannah and David's death is a legitimate one involving many considerations by all involved. And it is not an easy black-and-white issue to resolve, because what ultimately happens has many ramifications outside this particular case.

My opinion is that the UK investigators should essentially act as private investigators on behalf of Hannah and David's family, who are UK citizens. Here is why:

Many parties (everyone actually) have an interest in bringing Hannah and David's attackers and killers to justice, but the supreme interest is held by their families.

If Hanna and David's families wanted to do so, they could hire a private investigator to collect and examine evidence, search for and interview witnesses, and review any evidence the Thai police was either willing to provide access to or made public.

The PI would have no legal authority to require cooperation from witnesses, search premises, etc., and definitely not to prosecute the case. The PI would be legally acting in a private (non-Thai government or law enforcement) capacity on behalf of the families.

When finished obtaining and analyzing the available evidence, the PI could report back to the families exactly what evidence it has collected and reviewed, as well as what evidence it has not had access to. It could also offer an expert opinion on the quality of that evidence, discrepancies and conflicts contained in the evidence, as well as on police procedures in gathering, handling and analyzing evidence.

The PI could also provide its expert opinion, based on the evidence it has seen and analyzed, as to who committed the crimes (if the PI believes it has sufficient proof to say beyond a reasonable doubt) and who did not commit the crimes (again, if sufficient proof is in hand beyond a reasonable doubt). In the alternative, if the PI does not have sufficient proof to say, in his or her expert opinion, who did or did not commit the crimes beyond a reasonable doubt, the report can state that also.

The PI could then offer all of the evidence it has collected as an independent investigator to both the prosecution and the defense, to use as they wish. Whether it aids the prosecution or the defense should not be of concern, because they are only interested in justice, finding the real killers.

Finally, the PI could observe the trial and compare what is offered as evidence in court with what they discovered in their own investigation. Then they could report back to the families as to whether what went into either convicting or exonerating the accused matched with what they discovered, and deliver an expert opinion as to whether it was a fair verdict, one way or the other.

In this particular case, the UK government's team of investigators can do all of the things I've described above. They can, in essence, be acting as private investigators on behalf of Hannah and David's family, who are citizens of the UK. And they can do so without "participating" or "interfering" with the Thai police, prosecution or judiciary.

If everyone involved truly wants to make sure the real killers and rapists, whoever they are, are convicted and punished, then there is no reason why they would not welcome the UK team to perform this role.

In theory, the Thai police and government have the second-most supreme interest in bringing the killers to justice. Because they are charged with protecting their citizens and foreigners visiting Thailand. So if the real killers aren't caught, that means they are still free to do this again. Given that, you would think they would welcome any assistance they can get, as long as it does not interfere or usurp their own role.

I believe that what I've suggested is the best way to balance all the interests and allow that to happen.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[pasak]

With the language differences it will be tough for the Britcops to get to the truth....unless of course the Britcops picked to come speak and read Thai!

It is imperative that the British Police come with a team of translators of their own choosing, fully capable of speaking, reading and writing Thai and of understanding and explaining Thai nuance and cultural peculiarities.

There are actually plenty of Farangs capable of performing this role for the British.

[Neeranam]

With the language differences it will be tough for the Britcops to get to the truth....unless of course the Britcops picked to come speak and read Thai!

It is imperative that the British Police come with a team of translators of their own choosing, fully capable of speaking, reading and writing Thai and of understanding and explaining Thai nuance and cultural peculiarities.

There are actually plenty of Farangs capable of performing this role for the British.

Why should it be a farang? Not all Thais are in on this coverup. Not all UK citizens are white btw.

[JLCrab]

From Post #559 above: I believe that what I've suggested is the best way to balance all the interests and allow that to happen.

From the screenplay for My Cousin Vinny:

Judge Chamberlain Haller: Mr. Gambini?

Vinny Gambini: Yes, sir?

Judge Haller: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.

Vinny : Thank you, Your Honor.

Judge Haller: [firm tone] Overruled.

[Johnsen]

Wow, what about reports coming in about this A/C bar. Apparently another murder there new years eve 02/03. Multiple, multiple reports of druggings. Allegedly they are responsible for burning down another competitors bar for being too successful and then running the owners off of the island.

Do some Google searches people. The place is out of control. These people need to be stopped. Some people on the island are now even posting names and photos of the guilty people. You just couldn't make the horror stories up. Its inhumane. Forget these 2 British kids. A world run investigation into every death on the island needs to be done. Simply shocking and to think these people from the A/C bar have been allowed to get away with it for so long... No wonder they didn't try to hide the bodies. This is everyday business for them. If the truth ever comes out the islands are finished and the many people involved should b in jail for life, police included. How can human beings in positions of power employed to serve and protect allow this to happen. Its just not human.

[heyexile]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

Not at present. Not since the coup.

[pasak]

With the language differences it will be tough for the Britcops to get to the truth....unless of course the Britcops picked to come speak and read Thai!

It is imperative that the British Police come with a team of translators of their own choosing, fully capable of speaking, reading and writing Thai and of understanding and explaining Thai nuance and cultural peculiarities.

There are actually plenty of Farangs capable of performing this role for the British.

Why should it be a farang? Not all Thais are in on this coverup. Not all UK citizens are white btw.

After seeing the photo of a Mark Kent's over stooped and fawning wai the other day, unfitting of a British Ambassador, it causes me to question how accurately versed the Brits are in Thai etiquette.

I concede that the translators could be Thai and that those Thais might be entirely straight. They could select translators of any origin. I was simply wishing to reduce the chance of any incorrectness.

[outboard]

From above Post #535:

... every police force in the world has a single function, that function is to collect information (evidence) for the purpose of securing a conviction in a court of law. they are not interested in what really happened they are interested in only providing evidence for the prosecutors to use in court to win, they do not collect evidence for the defence they do not collect information for the public, they do not collect proof for family members they collect evidence for the prosecution.

The US Supreme Court determined what has been called a 'Brady disclosure' in 1963. From Wikipedia:

'Brady disclosure' consists of exculpatory or impeaching information and evidence that is material to the guilt or innocence or to the punishment of a defendant. The term comes from the U.S. Supreme Court case, Brady v. Maryland, in which the Supreme Court ruled that suppression by the prosecution of evidence favorable to a defendant who has requested it violates due process. Following Brady, the prosecutor must disclose evidence or information that would prove the innocence of the defendant or would enable the defense to more effectively impeach the credibility of government witnesses. Evidence that would serve to reduce the defendant's sentence must also be disclosed by the prosecution.

nothing in your post alters what was said in my post "The function of the Police force is to collect evidence for the prosecution" this is a direct quote from a lawyer, this is fact , you can argue that the police are there to promote goodwill and deliver Christmas presents to kids in hospital and it will not change the facts

P.S. favourable has a "u" in it and defence is spelled with a "c" and before you argue that you spell it that way in America , the language is English

[bannork]

The editorial in today's Daily News, the paper with the 2nd largest circulation in Thailand, was entitled 'Thai police in the eyes of the world'. In a nutshell it said the police need to modernised, reformed, as in this modern age many people can check evidence via various media sources.

[JLCrab]

Thank you. I will defer to the US Supreme Court. Following the 1963 ruling, the request is now routine.

[bertty]

With the language differences it will be tough for the Britcops to get to the truth....unless of course the Britcops picked to come speak and read Thai!

It is imperative that the British Police come with a team of translators of their own choosing, fully capable of speaking, reading and writing Thai and of understanding and explaining Thai nuance and cultural peculiarities.

There are actually plenty of Farangs capable of performing this role for the British.

You are aware that there are Thai born people who work for the British police force.

I'm sure they wont be using old Jim from the pie shop who speaks a bit of bar Thai.

[JohnThailandJohn]

From above Post #535:

... every police force in the world has a single function, that function is to collect information (evidence) for the purpose of securing a conviction in a court of law. they are not interested in what really happened they are interested in only providing evidence for the prosecutors to use in court to win, they do not collect evidence for the defence they do not collect information for the public, they do not collect proof for family members they collect evidence for the prosecution.

The US Supreme Court determined what has been called a 'Brady disclosure' in 1963. From Wikipedia:

'Brady disclosure' consists of exculpatory or impeaching information and evidence that is material to the guilt or innocence or to the punishment of a defendant. The term comes from the U.S. Supreme Court case, Brady v. Maryland, in which the Supreme Court ruled that suppression by the prosecution of evidence favorable to a defendant who has requested it violates due process. Following Brady, the prosecutor must disclose evidence or information that would prove the innocence of the defendant or would enable the defense to more effectively impeach the credibility of government witnesses. Evidence that would serve to reduce the defendant's sentence must also be disclosed by the prosecution.

nothing in your post alters what was said in my post "The function of the Police force is to collect evidence for the prosecution" this is a direct quote from a lawyer, this is fact , you can argue that the police are there to promote goodwill and deliver Christmas presents to kids in hospital and it will not change the facts

P.S. favourable has a "u" in it and defence is spelled with a "c" and before you argue that you spell it that way in America , the language is English

Agree on the the job of police to gather evidence for prosecutors but to nitpick ... those spellings are correct English unless you are using UK specific (British English) spellings.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/favorable

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/defense?q=defence+

Edit: Could be wrong but always thought the Oxford spelling was the accepted international standard.

Edited October 20, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[balo]

John, why do you think there is so much doubt in the minds of the public regarding this case?

First have to go back ...

Some police office came out early on and made some comment about a Thai not being able to do this and had to be a foreigner. My guess is he made this comment because he had heard about the blond hair and decided to use this as a chance to show some faux Thai Superiority. Despite reason, idiotic comment.

That is what started it all. Even when Police were questioning the farang friend with cut(s) people were screaming cover-up. Any unless you are completely ignorant about these things, the friend would have been the likely initial suspect anywhere.

Why did that start it all ... Because it screamed of an intent to cover things up and from this moment people because even more emotionally about an already horrific event as well as the unfairness in society when it comes to police and the have and have nots in Thailand. Once people get emotional, logic stops working.

So, people now convinced there will be a cover-up but why? Well must be a rich Thai involved. Now we got more emotion because of how some rich / powerful people in Thailand have gotten off with slaps on wrist for what a poor Thai would being doing time for.

As I said, once the cop or official made that statement (which I never saw - would love a link if you have one) about it not being a Thai and/or being a foreigner, people smelled cover-up and became emotional (outraged) to the point of even screaming cover up when they got did right by questioning the friend.

Then to take the cake, it turned out the suspects arrested who confessed and DNA matched were indeed not Thai or especially a rich local from the island.

Then what killed any hope of some people coming back to reality was the whole idiotic ill conceived and illogical phone conspiracy that went viral (regarding this cas) on Facebook and of course turned out to be nonsense. But too late, people already were to far gone down this road and just doubled down with more nutty conspiracies.

But there is underlying issues that made all this conspiracy stuff possible ...

The underlying feeling and anger of Thais regarding the have and have nots as well as the dislike and distrust of police . Without this, none of this conspiracy stuff would have taken hold in this case as it doesn't it most despite the ignorant comment early on.

Then you have many of the posters here who for years have shown anger and contempt towards Thais and Thailand and can't even control themselves from making nasty condemning and bigoted comments when a positive story is posted here. There posts not just now but for many years show not just an anger towards Thailand but a clear want and desire to see Thailand suffer and always wishing and predicting for this to come.

It is interesting though with the farang side of things at least, these people screaming here about a cover-up and acting outraged at torture are often the same ones who talk of cutting off molester's penis who have been arrested (not convicted) by Thai Police and talk of doing horrible things to others just arrested by Thai police including the Train murderer and rapist of the little girl despite all the similarities between the two cases. These people;s thoughts and posts are dictated by emotion and not logic.

Lastly, you also have the insecure folks who simply feel good being part of a group even if it is a conspiracy group.

This is very well written by you John and and I agree with you 100% .

And after social media picked it up everything that happened since the beginning, will be looked at as some sort of facts . A stupid police officer on the island make one comment about a Thai could never do this and suddenly everyone is screaming coverup when they arrest Burmese instead of Thais,

We all want justice and the right killers to be found. If the right killers are Burmese and not Thai please accept it.

Edited October 20, 2014 by balo

[docshock13]

Wow, what about reports coming in about this A/C bar. Apparently another murder there new years eve 02/03. Multiple, multiple reports of druggings. Allegedly they are responsible for burning down another competitors bar for being too successful and then running the owners off of the island.

Do some Google searches people. The place is out of control. These people need to be stopped. Some people on the island are now even posting names and photos of the guilty people. You just couldn't make the horror stories up. Its inhumane. Forget these 2 British kids. A world run investigation into every death on the island needs to be done. Simply shocking and to think these people from the A/C bar have been allowed to get away with it for so long... No wonder they didn't try to hide the bodies. This is everyday business for them. If the truth ever comes out the islands are finished and the many people involved should b in jail for life, police included. How can human beings in positions of power employed to serve and protect allow this to happen. Its just not human.

Yep. Just typed in AC Bar Koh Tao mafia and found lots terrible reviews on tripadvisor about this place:

"The men working there kept eyeing up my girlfriend trying to give her free drinks.

Not sure what they where up to, but we felt very uncomfortable there and was glad to leave."

"Terrible establishment. Aggressive locals and there was what appeared to be a turd in the middle on the floor when I was there."

"Unsafe place,very loud, wifi not work,standard room very expencive.smelly shower,very rude stuff,definatly i will never ever come back this place.good points....i didnt find any,worst place in thailand."

"My friend was harrassed at the bar by drug dealer."

"Stay here only if you want to give your money to money grabbing, honourless, rude and horrible people." etc. etc

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g303910-d1098045-r234854599-AC_Resort-Ko_Tao_Surat_Thani_Province.html