Koh Tao murder suspects retract confessions: 'interpreter assaulted us'

[tinhead]

Wasn't the interpreter a roti seller?

The so called interpreter potentially has a lot of answers as to how the ' confessions ' etc were obtained so let's hope he can be made available for any court hearings and just doesn't just ' disappear '. There are a couple on possible interpretations of this so I'll leave to members to decide as they see fit.

Incidentally BBC World Television is covering the story that the suspects have retracted their confessions etc.

[SteveFong]

Perhaps the RTP buffoons would have had an outside chance of the world believing them if they hadn't chosen 2 scapegoats that look like 13 year old kids.

The 2 Burmese men accused of the murders are just that. Men.

no, they are kids

the killers are grown men tho

Nom Sod looks like a kid to me ..

Nom Sod looks like a kid to me too,

But a killer? not to me

one thing that has never been mentioned,

were drugs in her system, and, if so, which one's?

no one normally intentionally consumes a date rape drug,

but, had she been taking exctasy, on her own, there is no telling how the crime would have actually started;

the only thing I have to go on,

is Sean's blurb about "knowing" he tried to save her

I don't know what it actually means, but David could have heard her scream and discovered she was being raped, and then, they killed him fast, and then had to kill her too

the face bludgeoning is particularly gruesome, and could easily have been started with their fists and just turned into some sort of grotesque frenzy with the hoe, out of anger

Sean gave it away though, he fingered the killers

[NongKhaiKid]

Wasn't the interpreter a roti seller?

The so called interpreter potentially has a lot of answers as to how the ' confessions ' etc were obtained so let's hope he can be made available for any court hearings and just doesn't just ' disappear '. There are a couple on possible interpretations of this so I'll leave to members to decide as they see fit.

Incidentally BBC World Television is covering the story that the suspects have retracted their confessions etc.

Apparently so and if I've got it right of Rohingya descent which could see him conveniently deported. I'm not sure if his status here was ever explained.

The suspects and staff from the Myanmar Embassy said he couldn't speak the suspects dialect and since they are Buddhists and he's Muslim there's no love lost.

Depending on where this all goes it could be interesting to hear how the BIB justify his use.

[templedog]

Take a good look at the "bystanders" in that re-enactment photo. Look who's head is directly behind the head of the Burmese boy on the right.

Isn't he the manager of AC Bar? Man oh man, if it is him, he sure is very interested in knowing what and how this whole case is transpiring,

as if he is one of the "directors" of this movie.

[Kru Baa]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

about time a high profile case like this got into the international media .... showing what the RTP truly are (on a side Immigration also need to be thoroughly investigated from their corrupt practices to the ignorant manner they conduct their daily paper shuffles....they also take and assist in the persecution of migrant workers)

Thailand Karma LOL...well over due

Still barely a mention about it on BBC.

[templedog]

Yeah, I agree with the posts above that Nom Sod doesn't look like a killer, but he very well could have been involved, hence the rush off the island. I figure it was Nom Sod and the other two in that photo that Sean took, the AC Bar mngr and the cop....they would have to stay on the island, but Nom Sod is better off skedaddling to BKK. It adds up.

[jdinasia]

Perhaps the RTP buffoons would have had an outside chance of the world believing them if they hadn't chosen 2 scapegoats that look like 13 year old kids.

The 2 Burmese men accused of the murders are just that. Men.

no, they are kids

the killers are grown men tho

You are not a kid in your 20's. They are men fully capable of killing this way. To suggest otherwise is simply an argument based on emotions.

[arrowsdawdle]

Has more come out on the DNA testing? I remember originally they said it was sent to Singapore for the analysis. The reason I ask, is that means some of the original DNA might still be in the Singapore lab outside of the BIBs reach, that would give a true sample to test against.

Wouldn't hold out too much optimism. Singapore could only have what RTP labeled and sent.

[SteveFong]

Wasn't the interpreter a roti seller?

The so called interpreter potentially has a lot of answers as to how the ' confessions ' etc were obtained so let's hope he can be made available for any court hearings and just doesn't just ' disappear '. There are a couple on possible interpretations of this so I'll leave to members to decide as they see fit.

Incidentally BBC World Television is covering the story that the suspects have retracted their confessions etc.

Apparently so and if I've got it right of Rohingya descent which could see him conveniently deported. I'm not sure if his status here was ever explained.

The suspects and staff from the Myanmar Embassy said he couldn't speak the suspects dialect and since they are Buddhists and he's Muslim there's no love lost.

Depending on where this all goes it could be interesting to hear how the BIB justify his use.

The police on that island had no idea what a storm was brewing, so they acted with impunity

the cover up is blown,

the people involved will probably flee

[sweatalot]

about time a high profile case like this got into the international media .... showing what the RTP truly are (on a side Immigration also need to be thoroughly investigated from their corrupt practices to the ignorant manner they conduct their daily paper shuffles....they also take and assist in the persecution of migrant workers)

Thailand Karma LOL...well over due

There has been plenty of 'high profile cases' reported in the international media.

Nothing has changed, indeed,;

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

not always true.

drop by drop the barrel gets full - one day it overflows

[emilymat]

I notice in the original OP the accused asked for 'representation' and the lawyer offered to 'assist' them.

Is this just poor interpretation or is it something more worrying?. Maybe it's a technicality.

[Minnehaha]

Maybe I missed something but yesterday it was reported they got a slap in the face without a mention of a kick in the chest so tomorrow are we to be told the blue and the red were attched to their lower regions?

it was reported that they stood on the chest of one of the witnesses and possibly the now suspect victims as well,

the report of the interpreter kicking them in the chest is new

it is possible one of them has a broken rib

Have they never heard of water boarding?

If you are going to coerce a confession, there are many ways to 'motivate' a person that leave no physical scars.

IF the police did assault the 2 guys they were not very creative.

They claim to have been suffocated using plastic bags over their heads.. so yeah..

Oh.

Well, it seems they are getting some things right.

[Jonde]

I'm usually an optimist. However we got to consider one major fact: it became a national THAI affair and it may have been brought up to the political level. My point is, once "politics" takes over, it's all set. You can rig, fake, manipulate and do whatever the hell you want to. That's the basic ABC of politics. Get over it! It's fact.

Is it in their interest to consult the public and speak out the true facts? Of course not. There are some things going on the background we don't know of and we might never going to know, because it's classified, diplomatic talks. It's in their interest to calm the public and give them whatever they want to hear. The people want to see results and thus the officials are under pressure. So that's what they give to us. Not the truth, but something we might want to hear.

You really think the Thai officials let the Brits stroll in and hand them everything on the silver platter? I think they (Thais) must've sent out a clear sign through diplomatic channels NOT to snoop around too much- politely. Or without sounding like a "conspiracy" guy, they set out a deal. You guys come in, let media go along with you. We're all fine.

Thai to Brits: "Let's not jeopardise our relationship because of SUCH MATTER" or as usually go hard rock solid:

"We have found some British spies, convicted criminals, and illegal activities by your citizens in Kingdom of Thailand. Maybe we have some more information about the Royal Navy, nasty child abduction business etc"

The Brit goes: "Ok, ok, ok, you got us. We still want your rice for cheap price. We like Thai pussy and it seems you've got some more cards on the table right now... We just going to send some investigators... make it look all look legit. Let's settle this as quickly as possible. We have to re-align our assets from vote-rigging on the Scottish independency... We're still busy"

Politics is far more what you see and hear on TV

[sweatalot]

I'm a bit surprised at how long it is taking the British police to get here. Why weren't they prepared to leave at a monemts notice just in case they were given the go-ahead?

get real. British detectives are already here/have been here for a long time. the "official" team will be coming.

Would like this to be true. But I doubt it.

How do you know? Are you one of them?

[Artisi]

I still cannot get over how so little has been made internationally of the 'interpreter' and the pictures of him selling Rotti's.

It seems strange given the tragedy of the circumstances, but i still cant help having a little snigger at the pictures of him in his day job, and then donned in a police shirt informing the accused how they committed the crimes.

Its so surreal that if someone informed you of it, you would think they were certified. Not to mention the fact that apparently he does not even speak the same language as the accused.

Maybe it is being saved for the end- like the opera ain't over till the fat lady sings or in this case till the roti seller - sells-out, providing he doesn't commit suicide due to the pressure he is under.

[lahgon29]

I see the usual suspects are out in force with their usual anti thai tirades.

Happy to live out their life in a country they despise so much. Mind bogglingly ironic but most of the morons can't see beyond the cheap beers and even cheaper carnal comforts.

The uk sends police help when in its own backyard law and order, public safety etc still remains one of the top 3 concerns of the average Brit.

Recreational drug use , alcohol abuse and the violence fuelled by these scourges grows by the day. Victims of these scourges continue to go unheard, despite the presence of the wonderful British bobby... Spare me this unequivocal claptrap!

Lord Lucan remains at large, Stephen Lawrence's disgraceful murder was whitewashed and UK police institutional racism continues unchecked.

But hey keep watching your reruns of ' only fools and horses', wipe away the tears when you hear Jerusalem at last night of the proms.

Pitiable small minded hypocrites the lot of you

I got to page 4 before the apologists for Thailand came out. I live here as well, mate, and It's as plain as the nose on even YOUR face that this is a scapegoat investigation. How naive are you?

I can be equally critical of Australia and England issues of law and order, as have lived In both, but there is much wrong with this country, and we should be free to talk about It on this forum as long It Is objective.

[jjjjjock]

I'm a bit surprised at how long it is taking the British police to get here. Why weren't they prepared to leave at a monemts notice just in case they were given the go-ahead?

get real. British detectives are already here/have been here for a long time. the "official" team will be coming.

.

Finely someone with a bit of nouse!

[sweatalot]

So now they have proper legal representation, an interpreter they can understand and trust and without the cops leaning over their shoulders things have changed somewhat.

Can see why it was so important for the witnesses, including the interpreter, to give early evidence as they may want to leave the country.

The prosecutor wants more evidence.

Then there was the court appointed lawyer who got out, a little to hot for him, save his skin while he still has it.

And the plod will arrive next week "To observe" can just see them sitting quietly looking on without asking questions, yea right.

A closer look at the DNA evidence would be the next step.

I find it quite strange that the two accused are on their third set of lawyers. How do they get up to speed in such a short space of time and why do they keep resigning?

It will be interesting who the UK send. The stated focus is DNA evidence and whether the confession was obtained under duress. So you'd think the personnel required would be a forensics DNA expert and maybe a police complaints expert used to dealing with complaints about police brutality.

If a murder case investigator is sent, it would suggest that the Brits intend to review the whole case and not just the stated focus of DNA and torture.

Why do you think they will send only one person?

I prefer to believe they will send a team of experts

[JLCrab]

From 2 different posts Posts above:

Cameron wouldn't have got involved with out consulting Kent first

Regardless of over 100000 signatures on a petition presented to Cameron...??

This process was most likely started as per the UK FCO MOU on Investigation of Murders of UK Citizens Abroad

The decision on whether to appoint an Special Investigations Officer rests with the Chief Officer of the appropriate Police Force. Circumstances where the appointment of an SIO is best practice will include (among other factors):

Relatives request UK police to assist in establishing the circumstances of the death of a British national. This often arises where the family are dissatisfied with the investigation overseas, and seek advice in respect of best practice in murder investigation.

The procedure could have been initiated following the Witheridge family's return to UK following their travel to Bangkok around 24 September.

[gregk0543]

When the saudis sent their investigators to recover the stolen blue diamond they were killed. Be careful new scotland yard.

[MediaWatcher]

stoli, on 22 Oct 2014 - 09:33, said:

Unfortunately, so many westerners, including many on this very forum, were calling for the murderers to be found quickly and sent to prison the next day. Even though in most foreign countries it takes time to find the suspects, here they are condemned for not finding the suspects next to the dead bodies. Because we live in a tourist area, they try to please the foreigners wishes and deliver results that are not correct, but expedient. Next time please give them some room to do their job.

What? Do you work for the RTP media department, or are you in a parallel world, surely it seems, you do not live on this planet.

[wabothai]

Again.... who can be trusted, so whatever they say or claim, there is always a twist to it in their favor.

[Bleacher Bum East]

Wasn't the interpreter a roti seller?

The so called interpreter potentially has a lot of answers as to how the ' confessions ' etc were obtained so let's hope he can be made available for any court hearings and just doesn't just ' disappear '. There are a couple on possible interpretations of this so I'll leave to members to decide as they see fit.

Incidentally BBC World Television is covering the story that the suspects have retracted their confessions etc.

Apparently so and if I've got it right of Rohingya descent which could see him conveniently deported. I'm not sure if his status here was ever explained.

The suspects and staff from the Myanmar Embassy said he couldn't speak the suspects dialect and since they are Buddhists and he's Muslim there's no love lost.

Depending on where this all goes it could be interesting to hear how the BIB justify his use.

They will have a very difficult time justifying his use, and this presents a big problem for the prosecutor because it is one of several factors that will make it difficult for the prosecutor to persuade the judge(s) and the courtroom observers that the accused men's original confessions were reliable "beyond a reasonable doubt".

The defense lawyer should be able to call the translator as a witness for all to observe in court, and the defense lawyer will argue and present evidence in support of the following:

• The translator was not registered or licensed as an official translator (which in another Thai case I recently read about--British businessman in Pattaya--made the confession inadmissible ... albeit after he spent a long time in prison on what he says were trumped up charges)
• The translator's entire existence and livelihood on Koh Tao (and probably in Thailand) depended on the local authorities, so if they were unhappy with his "translation" he stood to lose everything
• The translator was the only person in the room who spoke Arakanese other than the suspects; so he is the only witness as to what the two accused men said that day
• Since there is no video or audio of the confessions, the translator's own paraphrasing and translation from Arakanese to Thai (neither of which is his original language) is the only evidence of the confessions
• There is a long-running conflict between members of the translator's ethnic group and that of the accused
• For the reasons stated above, the translator is an inherently unreliable witness, and therefore his translation of the confessions is unreliable
• For all of these reasons and more, there is a reasonable doubt as to whether the confessions are reliable.

The defense lawyer will also be able to question the translator regarding everything he witnessed surrounding the arrest, interrogation, re-enactment etc.

I think this, along with the potential unreliability of all of his other key evidence, is why the prosecutor has sent the file back to the police for more circumstantial evidence to support his case in court.

[MediaWatcher]

WhizBang, on 22 Oct 2014 - 09:59, said:

Quote

The "interpreter" initially used by police turned out to be a local food vendor of Rohingya descent, not a professional.

Just like the police, not professional at all.

This is all over the BBC this morning. More of Thailand's reputation in tatters. Not that Thailand had a good reputation to begin with.

This 'perfect job' by the RTP is seriously starting to unravel. How long before we see some RTP charged with coverup and destroying evidence? Follow the money. See who paid out and received large sums of money since Sept 15.

I wonder, if this is what the RTP consider a "perfect job" what would they consider a "poor job." You also have to wonder how many "innocent" people have been jailed. in the past.

[Baerboxer]

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The Thai PM was not summonsed.

An official from the Thai embassy in London was summonsed.

Some folks seem to have no hesitation to be untruthful.

That last line has to be a joke no ?

And yes he was summoned. Cameron didn't invite him to have a chat about the situation, he told him he was going to have a chat about the situation.

How the heck do you know what Cameron did or didn't do or say?

Although unchecked, Cameron is loose in the way he speaks for sure. A lightweight dick trying to be the new Churchill or Thatcher.

I doubt very much that the Thai PM would respond to anyone who "told" him he was going to have a meeting.

[Baerboxer]

When the saudis sent their investigators to recover the stolen blue diamond they were killed. Be careful new scotland yard.

The Saudi's sent a businessman who was well connected to and trusted by the Saudi Royal family. He was murdered along with Saudi diplomats. Presumably the found something out, were getting too close, or making ripples someone didn't like.

Britain will send experienced officers, either to work with or observe the RTP depending on whose version you believe. It would be a very big mistake should any harm befall any one of those officers.

[Baerboxer]

I'm a bit surprised at how long it is taking the British police to get here. Why weren't they prepared to leave at a monemts notice just in case they were given the go-ahead?

get real. British detectives are already here/have been here for a long time. the "official" team will be coming.

.

Finely someone with a bit of nouse!

The sort of nouse that can be found in any expat bar in Thailand.

[marquis22]

"No No Dummy, you did it this way not that way"!!

[NongKhaiKid]

Wasn't the interpreter a roti seller?

The so called interpreter potentially has a lot of answers as to how the ' confessions ' etc were obtained so let's hope he can be made available for any court hearings and just doesn't just ' disappear '. There are a couple on possible interpretations of this so I'll leave to members to decide as they see fit.

Incidentally BBC World Television is covering the story that the suspects have retracted their confessions etc.

Apparently so and if I've got it right of Rohingya descent which could see him conveniently deported. I'm not sure if his status here was ever explained.

The suspects and staff from the Myanmar Embassy said he couldn't speak the suspects dialect and since they are Buddhists and he's Muslim there's no love lost.

Depending on where this all goes it could be interesting to hear how the BIB justify his use.

They will have a very difficult time justifying his use, and this presents a big problem for the prosecutor because it is one of several factors that will make it difficult for the prosecutor to persuade the judge(s) and the courtroom observers that the accused men's original confessions were reliable "beyond a reasonable doubt".

The defense lawyer should be able to call the translator as a witness for all to observe in court, and the defense lawyer will argue and present evidence in support of the following:

• The translator was not registered or licensed as an official translator (which in another Thai case I recently read about--British businessman in Pattaya--made the confession inadmissible ... albeit after he spent a long time in prison on what he says were trumped up charges)
• The translator's entire existence and livelihood on Koh Tao (and probably in Thailand) depended on the local authorities, so if they were unhappy with his "translation" he stood to lose everything
• The translator was the only person in the room who spoke Arakanese other than the suspects; so he is the only witness as to what the two accused men said that day
• Since there is no video or audio of the confessions, the translator's own paraphrasing and translation from Arakanese to Thai (neither of which is his original language) is the only evidence of the confessions
• There is a long-running conflict between members of the translator's ethnic group and that of the accused
• For the reasons stated above, the translator is an inherently unreliable witness, and therefore his translation of the confessions is unreliable
• For all of these reasons and more, there is a reasonable doubt as to whether the confessions are reliable.

The defense lawyer will also be able to question the translator regarding everything he witnessed surrounding the arrest, interrogation, re-enactment etc.

I think this, along with the potential unreliability of all of his other key evidence, is why the prosecutor has sent the file back to the police for more circumstantial evidence to support his case in court.

I agree with you so very much and during my time in Hong Kong there was never a thought about using an interpreter who was not officially certified.

The stumbling block here could be if the suspects decide to plead guilty, for whatever reason, and evidence doesn't need to be produced and tested in court.

What if the judge is only too happy to go with the Guilty plea and doesn't ask questions ?

With no cross examination available the defence can only present mitigation and allude to things without going too far and being criticised, maybe. In some jurisdictions the judge would ask " why are you pleading guilty then ? "

[Pundi6446]

Lies! This was a perfect police investigation and you farrangs just need time to understand.

Happiness in the Kingdom now sits at 120% and corruption has been eradicated.

Love live the Generalissimo

Ha ha ha ha ha , this must be a joke message, good tortures can withdrawal all info they want said, coursed into confessions etc. and not leave any evidence of any kind on said people. You really have to be fricking kidding, excuse me while I take time out to laugh out loud.