Parents say their sons are innocent but beaten to confess

[epicstuff]

No matter the kind of Torture i am receiving, i cannot confess to the crime i did not commit.

Stop smoking that shit it's bad for you.

A statement like that could only have been uttered by someone who has never been tortured. Have you ever felt a 220 volt electrical shock? Well how about 30 of them? Back to back. In your crotch or on your face? The kind of man required to resist a confession under that kind of duress, is simply someone i doubt you are. Please let us know how any times you have been tortured and when you have stuck to your lofty principals.

Are you suggesting these things occurred to the suspects? Understand if you are just arguing the above comment but best I can see the worst torture these two suspects were met with was threats. I would not be surprised at all if they were treated illegally to get the confessions but if true it doesn't make the confessions untrue but rather makes them inadmissible in court. On the other hand, the did in a private meeting with their embassy staff, embassy lawyers and a human rights group confess too while also adding they were abused. The confessions will not make or break this case, the DNA is key along with other evidence putting them in and around the scene at the time and their being in possession of one of the victim's property and the witness who claims they gave him this property to destroy.

My personal belief is they will plead guilty and the recantation of the confession is more of a legal move to remove this from evidence since it may have been obtained illegally. The lawyers also are playing to the public as police do. The more they can make this case a problem for officials, despite any obvious guilt, the better chance they have to get reduced sentences if they plead guilty.

have you ever seen 'strangers in danger', those 2 nutters tried 'water boarding', considered an almost acceptable torture in the West and couldn't stand 5 seconds of it . now amplify that by the threat of something more serious or permanent. It doent take a brain surgeon to figure out torture is a pretty effective way at extracting confessions from the most hardened veteran. all the main evidence was contaminated so it looks like its down to whether or not the DNA match was genuine and not contaminated or planted. my moneys on the fact that with all the other F***ups the evidence of DNA will be questionable at best.

I too really want to know whether the son of headman was ever checked . last I heard he apeared with a lawyer and wanted to sue for defamation or something like that.

[Local Drunk]

I'm weary from the detractors of JD, JTJ and myself.

You the detractors have no facts or evidence that you have presented to a court of law to support your claims.

Were any of you an eye witness to this brutal crime?

No. Instead logical response to posts have been replaced by people who read something on the internet.

Do any of you really know how things work here?

[DarloKnight]

When was the first batch of DNA taken? The bodies were brought back to the UK on 21st Sept, and when was the 2nd batch taken? If you think logically when the UK did the autopsy they will have the original DNA before the 2 suspects were arrested.

[sweatalot]

Keep cranking up the pressure for transparency and justice in this case.

It aint gonna happen. Transparency is not in the Thai dictionary.

This is not the first case such as this and it aint gonna be the last.

Why so pessimistic?

I think we (the international public and the internet) can make a difference.

And we should

Don't listen to those who want to talk us out of this - they don't want a better reality

[Local Drunk]

It was not identified as their semen in the first round of DNA testing.

It was only after the second time they were tested that the police said there was a DNA match.

This is untrue and has been addressed numerous times with links. The police never tested their DNA until they had them under questioning. The police collected hundreds of DNA samples and it created a huge backlog in testing. Obviously they were pushing the most likely suspects to the top of the testing as they did when they were questioning these two.

John it starts to get just a little booooring!

So let's make a deal. Ten posters come and stay a week in your small guesthouse on Koh Tao. In return you stop posting on KT-topics!!

Win-win!!

Yesterday, it was jdinasia doing all the parrying and deflecting (JTJ must have been off duty). Today, it's the reverse.

Yawn.....

I was upcountry photographing birds... I feel left out.

[StealthEnergiser]

JohnThailandJohn,

If you are only playing Devils advocate then I can understand......ish

If you really have an unshakeable faith in the Cops, then I can't

Their semen was found in the victim. How would this be playing devil's advocate? What I am not playing is conspiracy theories based on things people don;t know because we are not part of the investigation or has ALL the evidence been presented in trial or has the police and autopsy report been made public or has the defense been able to put on their case.

A number of damning evidence has been mentioned to date against these two with the biggest being their semen matching the two semen samples identified and collected from the victim. The only way this could not be true is if the police are lying to the press about the match which would come out in trial or there is a vast conspiracy by many people and entities to set these two up.

No devil's advocate, just reality. Nothing to suggest this crime was motivated by money except rich people exist and no reason to believe a kid the cops confirmed was in Bangkok at the time had anything to do with this unless of course their is another vast conspiracy by numerous other people to say he was in Bangkok when he wasn't.

Devils advocate would be suggesting a well-off island family can control the entire justice system in Thailand as well as labs and universities all the way up to the PM ... and of course do this for unknown reasons as there is no evidence to suggest they were involved and regardless if crime committed by Thai or immigrant workers doesn't make Thailand look and better or worse.

I recall the RTP claiming that there was a DNA match. I don't recall reading anywhere that they said they matched the suspects's DNA to the semen found in the victim.

And I recall already providing you numerous links where they stated it was matched to the semen. I will provide you one more since you seem determined not to read the news about this case on your own as this has been reported in many news sites.

Police Commissioner Gen. Somyot Poompanmuang told CNN that DNA in semen taken from Witheridge matched samples taken from the two men. http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/world/asia/thailand-murders/

Do you have a connection with the owner of in touch resort are you the person who has been protecting him also on facebook ?

and also tried to silent posters on the Facebook Koh Tao Community

[jdinasia]

I don't believe there is, was and never will be any Burmese DNA inside the victim.

The RTP thought all farang had the name John and that they would all fall in line and believe every word they uttered.

So there would have been no need to do such a thing.

DNA hasn't been mentioned for a long time. They are looking at other things. Circumstantial evidence that also doesn't exist.

They do not have a clue.

IF there was a strong match of the DNA, it would be screamed from the hilltops. That's why they keep hanging onto the circumstantial evidence. I think its the dna on the smokes that were there.

DNA is circumstantial in relation to the deaths. Even to rape. It does lock down some aspects of the prosecution's case.

[smokie36]

He sure does spend a lot of time posting on here!

[connda]

I wonder if, "Beyond a reasonable doubt...", is included in any Thai law books?

[tezzainoz]

i not think he would be stupid enough to go to Australia

Rapes is a sexual crime in Australia

and with new laws you can be and inteviewed and arrested by Australia police, even if the crime was committed in an overseas country

If he is travelling to Australia by Jetstay Immigration authorities will already have him on their, Want To Talk To List

with short notice he would be travelling on a Tourist or work visa

both of these visas allow him to have to show cause at immigration

[sweatalot]

With all the media heat that is on the headmans son, if it was me I would stand up and take a DNA test to prove my innocence.

Of course. You are innocent

[7Heaven]

A statement like that could only have been uttered by someone who has never been tortured. Have you ever felt a 220 volt electrical shock? Well how about 30 of them? Back to back. In your crotch or on your face? The kind of man required to resist a confession under that kind of duress, is simply someone i doubt you are. Please let us know how any times you have been tortured and when you have stuck to your lofty principals.

Are you suggesting these things occurred to the suspects? Understand if you are just arguing the above comment but best I can see the worst torture these two suspects were met with was threats. I would not be surprised at all if they were treated illegally to get the confessions but if true it doesn't make the confessions untrue but rather makes them inadmissible in court. On the other hand, the did in a private meeting with their embassy staff, embassy lawyers and a human rights group confess too while also adding they were abused. The confessions will not make or break this case, the DNA is key along with other evidence putting them in and around the scene at the time and their being in possession of one of the victim's property and the witness who claims they gave him this property to destroy.

My personal belief is they will plead guilty and the recantation of the confession is more of a legal move to remove this from evidence since it may have been obtained illegally. The lawyers also are playing to the public as police do. The more they can make this case a problem for officials, despite any obvious guilt, the better chance they have to get reduced sentences if they plead guilty.

"My personal belief is they will plead guilty and the recantation of the confession is more of a legal move to remove this from evidence since it may have been obtained illegally. The lawyers also are playing to the public as police do. The more they can make this case a problem for officials, despite any obvious guilt, the better chance they have to get reduced sentences if they plead guilty."

Now, this IS a conspiracy theory, if ever I've heard one.

Obviously you have no idea what a conspiracy theory is or the difference between logic.

DNA match along with the other evidence release publicly to date alone would indicate they will be convicted barring any very surprising new evidence. Pleading guilty will be the best shot of them not receiving the death penalty and one day being able to see freedom again.

so what date are the trial set to ?

[Number 3]

Any more news on the son of the mafia guy?

You won't hear much about him, the village headman I'm sure has paid handsomely for his not being in the news. The person I want to know about is the bloody pommy, I think friend of the murdered couple, who fled the island in a big hurry and was leaving Thailand also, but remember he had the pants with blood on them, stashed in a bag, as not to be found by the cops or anyone else, did they ever do DNA on that blood, they said they interrogated him again, and he had major flaws in his testimony, Where is he now????

I read that he was cleared by the Thai police and that after testing, it was determined that it was not blood on the pants. There are numerous questions by many. We won't know many of the answers until it goes to trial.

You are correct. Police found what they thought was blood on the pants or shorts in his bag but after testing it turned out not to be blood. Of course conspiracy theorists were screaming prior to the testing that police planted the pants in his suitcase.

Yeah. Ok. It was the conspiracy theorists.

. Whatever you say Johnny.

[Fatty123]

KT is mafia island anybody who has ever worked there knows that. It's old news... If you upset the mafia you have to leave the island asap first boat out. Period. For that reason, don't expect any locals to speak out...

The boat dudes also have to pay the mafia to rent a pace to dock. If you did try and 'escape' the mafia, there is a good chance that they will simply call the boat chaps to bring you back or 'have an accident'.

Islands are great places for orgainsed crime. Look at Sicily!

[TTom911]

seems the Scotland Yard paid yesterday and today ("unofficially" already before? who knows...) a visit to Koh Tao. As per Bangkok Post, which seems we can't link here

[JohnThailandJohn]

How Conspiracy Theories Work ... http://people.howstuffworks.com/conspiracy-theory.htm

Why Rational People Buy Into Conspiracy Theories ... http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/magazine/why-rational-people-buy-into-conspiracy-theories.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Conspiracy Theorists Arent Really Skeptics .... http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/11/conspiracy_theory_psychology_people_who_claim_to_know_the_truth_about_jfk.html

Why People Believe in Conspiracy Theories .... http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-people-believe-conspiracy-theories/

Why conspiracy theories persist... http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2014/04/21/cass-sunstein-explains-why-people-believe-conspiracy-theories

Are the UK police involved in this conspiracy theory, oh and the UK government, PM, ambassador and officials. How about the Burmese PM and officials according to your opinion then they are, well I'll keep in their company JTJ and as far as I can judge, its the side of justice.

Its no use constantly stating that it should be left to the courts to decide when their guilt has already been stated by the Thai PM, police and officials.

I think you are making things up if you believe I suggested or anything I posted indicates a conspiracy theory let along one by the UK or anyone else. Also I am not aware of the Thai PM saying these two are guilty and don't deserve a trial and am also unaware of any police force arresting people for a crime and saying anything but they have the right people and when it goes to court the state will state they are guilty and if the suspects don't plead guilty and put on an innocence defense then their lawyers will state and argue they are innocent.

A number of very experienced judges will oversee the trial and decide guilt or innocence. It is not like there needs to be a concern of compromising a jury pool.

[Gweiloman]

This is untrue and has been addressed numerous times with links. The police never tested their DNA until they had them under questioning. The police collected hundreds of DNA samples and it created a huge backlog in testing. Obviously they were pushing the most likely suspects to the top of the testing as they did when they were questioning these two.

John it starts to get just a little booooring!

So let's make a deal. Ten posters come and stay a week in your small guesthouse on Koh Tao. In return you stop posting on KT-topics!!

Win-win!!

Yesterday, it was jdinasia doing all the parrying and deflecting (JTJ must have been off duty). Today, it's the reverse.

Yawn.....

I was upcountry photographing birds... I feel left out.

Sorry LD, nothing personal but compared to those two, you're an amateur

(written in jest, hope it will be taken as such)

[StealthEnergiser]

Do you have a connection with the owner of in touch resort are you the person who has been protecting him also on facebook ?

and also tried to silent posters on the Facebook Koh Tao Community

How Conspiracy Theories Work ... http://people.howstuffworks.com/conspiracy-theory.htm

Why Rational People Buy Into Conspiracy Theories ... http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/magazine/why-rational-people-buy-into-conspiracy-theories.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


Conspiracy Theorists Arent Really Skeptics .... http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/11/conspiracy_theory_psychology_people_who_claim_to_know_the_truth_about_jfk.html


Why People Believe in Conspiracy Theories .... http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-people-believe-conspiracy-theories/


Why conspiracy theories persist... http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2014/04/21/cass-sunstein-explains-why-people-believe-conspiracy-theories

Are the UK police involved in this conspiracy theory, oh and the UK government, PM, ambassador and officials. How about the Burmese PM and officials according to your opinion then they are, well I'll keep in their company JTJ and as far as I can judge, its the side of justice.

Its no use constantly stating that it should be left to the courts to decide when their guilt has already been stated by the Thai PM, police and officials.

I think you are making things up if you believe I suggested or anything I posted indicates a conspiracy theory let along one by the UK or anyone else. Also I am not aware of the Thai PM saying these two are guilty and don't deserve a trial and am also unaware of any police force arresting people for a crime and saying anything but they have the right people and when it goes to court the state will state they are guilty and if the suspects don't plead guilty and put on an innocence defense then their lawyers will state and argue they are innocent.

A number of very experienced judges will oversee the trial and decide guilt or innocence. It is not like there needs to be a concern of compromising a jury pool.

[phuketandsee]

seems the Scotland Yard paid yesterday and today ("unofficially" already before? who knows...) a visit to Koh Tao. As per Bangkok Post, which seems we can't link here

Yes, and it looks like a lot more than just "observing" the RTP since the local and provincial RTP were not informed.

[thailandchilli]

Head to Andy Halls twitter feed to see some shots of the UK police at work in Koh Tao this morning https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

[penwithcris]

HELP THE POLICE

BEAT YOURSELF UP!

[Gweiloman]

JohnThailandJohn,

If you are only playing Devils advocate then I can understand......ish

If you really have an unshakeable faith in the Cops, then I can't

Their semen was found in the victim. How would this be playing devil's advocate? What I am not playing is conspiracy theories based on things people don;t know because we are not part of the investigation or has ALL the evidence been presented in trial or has the police and autopsy report been made public or has the defense been able to put on their case.

A number of damning evidence has been mentioned to date against these two with the biggest being their semen matching the two semen samples identified and collected from the victim. The only way this could not be true is if the police are lying to the press about the match which would come out in trial or there is a vast conspiracy by many people and entities to set these two up.

No devil's advocate, just reality. Nothing to suggest this crime was motivated by money except rich people exist and no reason to believe a kid the cops confirmed was in Bangkok at the time had anything to do with this unless of course their is another vast conspiracy by numerous other people to say he was in Bangkok when he wasn't.

Devils advocate would be suggesting a well-off island family can control the entire justice system in Thailand as well as labs and universities all the way up to the PM ... and of course do this for unknown reasons as there is no evidence to suggest they were involved and regardless if crime committed by Thai or immigrant workers doesn't make Thailand look and better or worse.

I recall the RTP claiming that there was a DNA match. I don't recall reading anywhere that they said they matched the suspects's DNA to the semen found in the victim.

And I recall already providing you numerous links where they stated it was matched to the semen. I will provide you one more since you seem determined not to read the news about this case on your own as this has been reported in many news sites.

Police Commissioner Gen. Somyot Poompanmuang told CNN that DNA in semen taken from Witheridge matched samples taken from the two men. http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/world/asia/thailand-murders/

So, like the rest of us, you are basing your conclusions on what's being reported in the press as said by the RTP? May I also then point you towards an older article

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

in which Pol Lt-Gen Panya stated that Mon has been arrested after evidence which police collected where were examined and proved that he was involved. He went on to say that the other suspect is the son of the village headman but that he had already left to Bangkok. He also said that both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

This is damning, is it not? Do you honestly think that such a high ranking official as Pol Lt-Gen Panya would give such statements to the press unless he is 99.99999999% certain of the facts? Bear in mind that he has subsequently been promoted. Is anyone ever promoted for screwing up in their jobs?

This is but one of hundreds of contradictions and inconsistencies of this case that has led to this outburst of social media from around the world.

It is beyond comprehension why all your posts have been staunchly toeing the "corporate" line and not a pip about the possibility that the police case has been compromised. This is why you have lost all credibility on this forum.

Edit: typos corrected

[CapFarmer]

so what date are the trial set to ?

What is the status of the case now? I thought I had read that the case had been returned by the prosecutors to the police again.

[mdmayes]

We want the truth!!

Until then... BOYCOT KOH TAO!

You're absolutely right everyone should boycott Thailand until the truth is revealed. That should go for all the expats ... time they stopped moaning about things and took action by leaving.

Agreed. Boycott Thailand. There are many countries in the region which will welcome my $$$$$ with open arms. In fact the other countries have a far cheaper cost of living factor than Thailand.

[Gweiloman]

We want the truth!!

Until then... BOYCOT KOH TAO!

You're absolutely right everyone should boycott Thailand until the truth is revealed. That should go for all the expats ... time they stopped moaning about things and took action by leaving.

Agreed. Boycott Thailand. There are many countries in the region which will welcome my $$$$$ with open arms. In fact the other countries have a far cheaper cost of living factor than Thailand.

This is a serious thread on a serious matter. Kindly bring your personal vendetta and agenda elsewhere; you could start your own thread in the general forum.

[JOC]

.

.

A number of very experienced judges will oversee the trial and decide guilt or innocence. It is not like there needs to be a concern of compromising a jury pool.

So you know the names of the judges already?? Please don't leave your fellow posters in the dark!!

Truly breaking news, since nobody else know the identity of the judges in this case!!

[beechnut13]

Looks like no comments from the parents on their son's DNA matching the semen found in one of the victims. Also no comments about how they may have been forced to participate by a rich Thai.

Let it go to trial ... they have lots of lawyers and groups looking out for them as well as media who have put the case under a microscope.

Is it possible to go to trial I thought the RTP case was sent back because it needed to be redone.

[Fatty123]

Can we read anything into the news in BK post that the local cops were kept in the dark over the surprise visit? It does seem that the national police chief has had it with the local force and brought in his own men.

I just hope they work together and not against each other. Top UK detectives have egos too. Thais have this plus face. If they prove the two Burmese guys aere actually innnocent, face can be saved if they play t the right way (ie that they were deceived by corrupt members of their own police force but have now dealt with it). The two Burmese migrants may actually be guilty? Who knows?

The next few days could prove very interesting.

[changnaam]

The Thai PBS article above is really the key / starting point to understanding where this all went wrong.

What evidence did they have at that point?

Where did that evidence go?

Which RTP police shuffle happened at that point?

What is the police chief quoted in the article now saying?

What was said in the meetings following the arrest of Mon?

If ever those questions could be answered then it would be clearer.

It is pretty damning that the RTP were so sure they had their men, then the big turnaround.

It really appears at that point the police were truly trying to find the culprits.

[JOC]

We want the truth!!

Until then... BOYCOT KOH TAO!

You're absolutely right everyone should boycott Thailand until the truth is revealed. That should go for all the expats ... time they stopped moaning about things and took action by leaving.

Agreed. Boycott Thailand. There are many countries in the region which will welcome my $$$$$ with open arms. In fact the other countries have a far cheaper cost of living factor than Thailand.

You guys simply don't get it!

We post here, because we want to improve the way things are working here, so we even in the future will enjoy living and working here!

To leave or turn the blind eye doesn't solve the problem!!

We might be small, but we are many, and we don't let go!!