Parents say their sons are innocent but beaten to confess

[love1012]

We want the truth!!

Until then... BOYCOT KOH TAO!

How about just...

BOYCOTT THAILAND!!! until justice has been done.

Pretty stupid idea, if we boycott every country because of 1 injustice wher do we go ? I suggest you take a one way ticket to the North Pole

Just one incident,........................for s start thats factually incorret - youd know that if you even owned a motor scooter MASSIVELY factually incorrect ........for another thing you need to realise that peeople arent safe as long as there ids corruption on this scale - its not JUST about TWO murders - its about a whole rotten system that western people are financing through tourism!! Mafia have to learn they cannot buy innocence after they have murdered!!!! The world KNOWS what has happened here!!

[love1012]

I hear ya. But they keep saying that they were beaten. I just think they should clearly state to their parents and their lawyers how they were abused and forced into a confession…it just gives more credibility to their assertions and could help to explain why there was no (or not much) obvious physical evidence. I have no doubt that Thai police used "improper" interrogation techniques…enough to force a confession is the conundrum.

Do you walk around with your nuts hanging out all day long ?

If someone was to kick them black and blue how would anyone notice ? especially if you were under police supervision every time you were in public.

More of your body is not on show in public than is. Do you really struggle to understand that ?.

Do you really struggle with understanding English?

If you read my posts correctly, I'm just saying that the physical evidence of some kind of torture has not been clearly evident. And the guys should clearly state to their parents and lawyers (who they apparently can speak freely to) what took place. Even if there is no physical evidence, a complete and accurate description of what happened would give them more credibility in their assertions and help in their defense.

There…I've said it twice so you can hopefully understand.

What are you talking about - do you not understand the words "large bruise on the chest" that IS physical evidence - is that clear for you?

[mihalis]

Oh what now, why wasn't this said previously ? Its becoming an even larger circus...

[Alwyn]

John Thailand John.

I just gotta confirm something.

You are satisfied with the evidence released by the Police. You have absolutely no reason to doubt them, whether it be for this shaky case or the reputation they have built up as a whole.

I have gone through my life with a healthy contempt of conspiracy theories. I have lived in Thailand for 13 years. There is an enormous shadow of a doubt in this case. Most things start as 'RUMOURS' until they are corroborated. The Police won't corroborate. So these remain rumours for now. It seems like the whole country is abuzzz with rumours.

You say that conspiracy theorists jump from one point to the next when something is disproven. Thats true. But seems like the Police have been doing the same thing, changing the points that have been picked out.

The fact that a forensic pathologist was never used at the crime scene and that members of the public, some that were later suspects, were all over the scene suggests the DNA evidence may be useless, tampered with. The Police have tampered with evidence in the past.

Do you think the Thai Police don't beat suspects? Being seen earlier in the evening near the scene is damning evidence?

Why do I bother? You are going to deflect somehow, ignoring all of this and I can't be bothered wasting my time making this post more comprehensive.

You are welcome to your opinion mate, I just don't fully understand why you are so vehemently convinced of it.

I'll admit that I can't know for sure the Burmen didn't do it, but everything surrounding this case makes it so highly doubtful.

But you seem so sure.

Ask JTJ why the police took the boys to a "safehouse" to question them. What a numpty

[Alwyn]

Just want to say how much I'm enjoying reading the banter going on here!

[MediaWatcher]

rkidlad, on 25 Oct 2014 - 13:07, said:

jdinasia, on 25 Oct 2014 - 11:19, said:

Suffinator, on 25 Oct 2014 - 11:12, said:

lucpez, on 24 Oct 2014 - 22:44, said:

We want the truth!!

Until then... BOYCOT KOH TAO!

You're absolutely right everyone should boycott Thailand until the truth is revealed. That should go for all the expats ... time they stopped moaning about things and took action by leaving.

I am quite happy with my life in Thailand. I plan on visiting KT on my next long break from work to visit friends.

You are welcome to stay away though.

I am shocked by this comment. You have friends?

Many delusional people have "invisible" friend, that only they see, hear and talk to.

[jdinasia]

BTW -- there has been much ado regarding a safe house.

IIRC there's no full police station on KT.

[ianf]

John Thailand John.

I just gotta confirm something.

You are satisfied with the evidence released by the Police. You have absolutely no reason to doubt them, whether it be for this shaky case or the reputation they have built up as a whole.

I have gone through my life with a healthy contempt of conspiracy theories. I have lived in Thailand for 13 years. There is an enormous shadow of a doubt in this case. Most things start as 'RUMOURS' until they are corroborated. The Police won't corroborate. So these remain rumours for now. It seems like the whole country is abuzzz with rumours.

You say that conspiracy theorists jump from one point to the next when something is disproven. Thats true. But seems like the Police have been doing the same thing, changing the points that have been picked out.

The fact that a forensic pathologist was never used at the crime scene and that members of the public, some that were later suspects, were all over the scene suggests the DNA evidence may be useless, tampered with. The Police have tampered with evidence in the past.

Do you think the Thai Police don't beat suspects? Being seen earlier in the evening near the scene is damning evidence?

Why do I bother? You are going to deflect somehow, ignoring all of this and I can't be bothered wasting my time making this post more comprehensive.

You are welcome to your opinion mate, I just don't fully understand why you are so vehemently convinced of it.

I'll admit that I can't know for sure the Burmen didn't do it, but everything surrounding this case makes it so highly doubtful.

But you seem so sure.

People who are short-sighted enough to swallow 'official' versions hook, line and sinker usually have some other agenda tucked away up their sleeves. It is the same with politics - a healthy dose of cynicism from all citizens would benefit the world enormously. JTJ has probably spent his life allowing himself to be easily duped. This particular case is very interesting to me because when there is a crime as serious as this against young people the urge to condemn the nearest soul is quite irresistible to the masses. But this time the voices have been almost unanimous against the BiB. Although we all want the culprit (s) caught I've hardly found one person (JTJ excepted) that accept that the young Burmese lads are the culprits. To me it highlights everything I feel about Thai authority and the Thai 'justice' system. The latter really does not exist and the Thai modus operandii for many things is almost risible. JTJ would do well to question authority at times. This case, I have to point out, is so transparent that nobody with any degree of humanitarian thinking could possibly think that justice is taking place.

Edited October 25, 2014 by ianf

[brd]

We want the truth!!

Until then... BOYCOT KOH TAO!

You're absolutely right everyone should boycott Thailand until the truth is revealed. That should go for all the expats ... time they stopped moaning about things and took action by leaving.

I am quite happy with my life in Thailand. I plan on visiting KT on my next long break from work to visit friends.

You are welcome to stay away though.

No point to push our luck....some may never learn !

As long as it is in the locals islanders and others well known habits to behave like savages why to share anything with savages to be risking one's life !

[bertty]

I hear ya. But they keep saying that they were beaten. I just think they should clearly state to their parents and their lawyers how they were abused and forced into a confession…it just gives more credibility to their assertions and could help to explain why there was no (or not much) obvious physical evidence. I have no doubt that Thai police used "improper" interrogation techniques…enough to force a confession is the conundrum.

Do you walk around with your nuts hanging out all day long ?

If someone was to kick them black and blue how would anyone notice ? especially if you were under police supervision every time you were in public.

More of your body is not on show in public than is. Do you really struggle to understand that ?.

Do you really struggle with understanding English?

If you read my posts correctly, I'm just saying that the physical evidence of some kind of torture has not been clearly evident. And the guys should clearly state to their parents and lawyers (who they apparently can speak freely to) what took place. Even if there is no physical evidence, a complete and accurate description of what happened would give them more credibility in their assertions and help in their defense.

There…I've said it twice so you can hopefully understand.

What are you talking about - do you not understand the words "large bruise on the chest" that IS physical evidence - is that clear for you?

What are you on about - do you not understand that when one is wearing a shirt a "large bruise on the chest can not be seen. So how can it be clearly evident.

Did you see It? I didn't.

[gerrythepoet]

Let them give their DNA again to the RTP and the British Embassy - check with the any verifiable DNA left with the two victims- match or not then proceed.

Polygraph tests with British Police and RTP.

[blowin]

It's obvious that there are Thai plants on this forum, from reading some of the responses. I am not surprised they are trying to do damage control. I don't believe a Falang can be so obviously naive to state some of the idiotic and pathetic posts. So be aware people. They are reading this too.

I am sure there are people of consequence reading this so what maybe (very much doubt) they might feel some shame about the way this whole debacle has been handled. But at the end of the day there has been two young holiday makers brutally murdered and raped and I am also very sure their family and friends are also reading this so be aware of this also. But its every ones duty to make sure that justice prevails and the correct murders are charged and convicted and that is in all our interests.

On a separate issue I would like to thank TV for letting free debate and not to moderate to heavily like some other sites.

[transam]

Let them give their DNA again to the RTP and the British Embassy - check with the any verifiable DNA left with the two victims- match or not then proceed.

Polygraph tests with British Police and RTP.

The Polygraph for the BiB..................

[sandhurstmolonski]

John Thailand John.

I just gotta confirm something.

You are satisfied with the evidence released by the Police. You have absolutely no reason to doubt them, whether it be for this shaky case or the reputation they have built up as a whole.

I have gone through my life with a healthy contempt of conspiracy theories. I have lived in Thailand for 13 years. There is an enormous shadow of a doubt in this case. Most things start as 'RUMOURS' until they are corroborated. The Police won't corroborate. So these remain rumours for now. It seems like the whole country is abuzzz with rumours.

You say that conspiracy theorists jump from one point to the next when something is disproven. Thats true. But seems like the Police have been doing the same thing, changing the points that have been picked out.

The fact that a forensic pathologist was never used at the crime scene and that members of the public, some that were later suspects, were all over the scene suggests the DNA evidence may be useless, tampered with. The Police have tampered with evidence in the past.

Do you think the Thai Police don't beat suspects? Being seen earlier in the evening near the scene is damning evidence?

Why do I bother? You are going to deflect somehow, ignoring all of this and I can't be bothered wasting my time making this post more comprehensive.

You are welcome to your opinion mate, I just don't fully understand why you are so vehemently convinced of it.

I'll admit that I can't know for sure the Burmen didn't do it, but everything surrounding this case makes it so highly doubtful.

But you seem so sure.

Really who would ever know now ?? , with the way this has been handled it pretty much has to be thrown out .

I dont know who committed this horrendous crime , but you simply cant run an investigation under these terms .

Far too Doubtful , the time has come ..Improve practises and start again , but you just cant have 99% confession

rate without the use of questionable measures . Extremely unfortunate .

[sandhurstmolonski]

It's obvious that there are Thai plants on this forum, from reading some of the responses. I am not surprised they are trying to do damage control. I don't believe a Falang can be so obviously naive to state some of the idiotic and pathetic posts. So be aware people. They are reading this too.

I am sure there are people of consequence reading this so what maybe (very much doubt) they might feel some shame about the way this whole debacle has been handled. But at the end of the day there has been two young holiday makers brutally murdered and raped and I am also very sure their family and friends are also reading this so be aware of this also. But its every ones duty to make sure that justice prevails and the correct murders are charged and convicted and that is in all our interests.

On a separate issue I would like to thank TV for letting free debate and not to moderate to heavily like some other sites.

Good points .

Lets just hope that the correct individuals are nailed for this horrendous crime ..and agreed , Its good to see some free speech.

[Johnsen]

They have to wait for a few people to leave the country before they investigate again.

[bander]

When it comes to RTP, anything to get a confession is possible, they are a disgrace to this country and I hope the defense lawyers rip their case into small pieces and show the whole world who the real killers are. There are killers still walking around on Koh Tao and just waiting for a new opportunity to rape and kill female backpackers and other who try to interfere in their crimes.

Edited October 25, 2014 by bander

[Krenjai]

Everything revolves around the DNA : 2 sets of semen. If it matches the Myanmar guys' DNA that's it, end of story! If it does not they should be released or charged with lesser crime. This is the only way to solve this - The DNA EVIDENCE is king here.

Agreed, and I bet you it will be a match...... it will either be swabbed samples, contaminated samples, planted samples......or whatever! I think they urgently need the OJ Dream Team to get them of the hook.

Don't forget the two accused did give a DNA sample two times, first time, when they were among the lot of other people a sample was taken off (except the few ones who mattered...?) there was clearly no match for any of both, the second time, when they were singled out, and had a finger pointed at by anyone wearing a brown or green uniform with a lot of brass on the shoulders in the land (...!), look here, it was a perfect match, delivered at the speed of light also... One might have divergent personal opinions about the culpability of these two Myanmarese, but wouldn't you say, in any case, they should have the benefit of the doubt? Or don't you have any doubt about how this (erm...) 'investigation' was done?

Agreed, again, personally I am not a 100% convinced the Burmese are not guilty, I am a 1000% convinced they have nothing to do with this crime. I followed the whole thing from the beginning and for me it is obvious who did it together with a few buddies. The RTP was initially on the right track but got stopped! Period! Everything after this is a ludicrous charade and people should be deeply ashamed they are willing to destroy the lives of these innocent Burmese. I also believe the hoe was used "later" by the cover up uncles.

I can only hope this thing will NOT go away, even after their conviction! The damage to the RTP gets bigger each day this drags on IMHO!

[JacknDanny]

It's obvious that there are Thai plants on this forum, from reading some of the responses. I am not surprised they are trying to do damage control. I don't believe a Falang can be so obviously naive to state some of the idiotic and pathetic posts. So be aware people. They are reading this too.

I think you will find most Thais are fully aware of what is happening and they are probably more hateful of BIB than most foreigners are.

Anybody who cannot see through this whole charade has to be off their rocker. This is not a Thai/farang thing. Its a right/wrong thing.

There are more holes in this case than Gruyere cheese.

I believe that 95% of ALL people on here just want to see justice served and have the guilty parties brought to justice to pay for their crimes.

If it is these Burmese then so be it, but on the balance of evidence shown and the total cock up by the BIB, I find it very unlikely,

[Pundi6446]

Any more news on the son of the mafia guy?

You won't hear much about him, the village headman I'm sure has paid handsomely for his not being in the news. The person I want to know about is the bloody pommy, I think friend of the murdered couple, who fled the island in a big hurry and was leaving Thailand also, but remember he had the pants with blood on them, stashed in a bag, as not to be found by the cops or anyone else, did they ever do DNA on that blood, they said they interrogated him again, and he had major flaws in his testimony, Where is he now????

[littlebw]

And if the 2 Burmese are innocent then their lives have been ruined , bet there is no compensation for false imprisonment

[blueshark]

Koh Tao murders: Thai police threatened to burn my son alive

KOH Samui: -- The father of one of the detained suspects in the Koh Tao murder case has told DVB that at their family reunion this afternoon, his son told him that he and his friend confessed to rape and murder only after Thai interrogators threatened to kill them, and that they did not commit the alleged crimes.

Htun Htun Htike, the father of Win Zaw Htun, said, My son and his friend [Zaw Lin] told me that they were subjected to physical torture by the Thai police and their translator.

The interrogators told them to confess to the crime, and threatened to cut off their limbs, put them in a bag, and dump them in a river if they did not.

The police also threatened to tie the two boys to a tire, pour petrol on it, and set it alight, he told DVBs Aye Nai in an exclusive interview on Friday.

Read More: https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-thai-police-threatened-to-burn-my-son-alive-burma-myanmar-thailand-koh-samui/45369

--DVB 2014-10-25

So happy I don't live there anymore. So many dangers just under the surface.

Utterly corrupt ever where. The police are some of the most stupid on the planet.

Everything thailand has to offer is a facade.

Even within the family unit they steal and lie with each other.

The educated class think they are educated but most of them have cheated their way through university.

The universities themselves are not worth the ground they are on.

A disgraceful society.

[Trentham]

I believe the threat to burn these boys. I am a partner in a resort up North and one night 12 [repeat twelve] cops came in after the restaurant was closed and demanded food. When we told them the kitchen was closed they said they would burn the place down if we did not comply.

Not one of those 12 was decent enough to suggest they do not bother us.

[SanSaiExPat]

JohnThailandJohn, on 25 Oct 2014 - 01:00, said:

Looks like no comments from the parents on their son's DNA matching the semen found in one of the victims. Also no comments about how they may have been forced to participate by a rich Thai.

Let it go to trial ... they have lots of lawyers and groups looking out for them as well as media who have put the case under a microscope.

John, <snip>, the parents probably don't even know what DNA is. But I guess you are entitled to you RTP protectionist views, god knows, they need all the help they can get.

JTJ is a shill writing for TV supporting the official story in any thread - simply ignore him!

Power to the people!

Have you all forgotten the right to life of the brutally murdered British citizens? What about their rights? JTJ gets labeled as a shill just because he points out the issue of DNA. "Power to the People"? What people? What liberal far left organization do you hale from?

[Baerboxer]

Look at those simple people. Have they brought up their sons to become rapists and murderers??

I refuse to believe it.

Please keep posting, so the two guys (together with Hannah and David) are never forgotten!!

Does any parent bring their children up to be ?

Did the parents of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and all those serial killers that materialized bring their offspring up to become so evil?

Of course not.

You can believe whatever you want. My dear old mum believed you shouldn't vote for a politician whose eyes were to close together, made then look dishonest she thought. Each to their own.

Point being, parents aren't always responsible for the actions of the their offspring, certainly not when the kids are adults, living away from home.

Too much speculation has led to some becoming convinced who is guilty and who are innocent based on nothing but words and stories.

Do you have any actual evidence that the 2 suspects didn't do it, or were not in some way involved?

The actual evidence has to be judged as beyond reasonable doubt to convict. It works both ways. The RTP has to provide this (satisfactory evidence) to the prosecutor for the case to go to trial. None of us have any 'actual' evidence to say they did or didn't or were or were not involved, that's clear.

What the majority of posters are questioning are the many contradictory reports by the RTP posted in the media. I would suggest that's plenty of circumstantial evidence to weaken the RTP's case. The one outstanding aspect that has not been mentioned outside this forum is the motive for the brutal murders. I would expect the Brit police to already have identified the killer's likely profile - in layman's terms, a crime of passion; in this case rage/rejection are likely candidates re the female victim. Nothing I have read or seen in the reenactment indicates that the B2 had this motivation, only (as alleged) lust. That's my opinion - and I accept I could be wrong.

You start off well - none of us know the real evidence, only what's been reported and expanded. The prosecutor, I assume, basis the decision to prosecute based on the likely chance of a conviction. That's his/her job - to secure a conviction, not to decide the verdict. Thailand don't use trial by jury. Judges make a decision based on the evidence, their understanding and interpretation of that evidence and applying the law as they see it. Not sure if the concept of "beyond reasonable doubt" is applied or even exists as such.

There are indeed many contradictions in this case. Most have been instigated and fueled by unprofessional police who were totally out of their depth, and all too willing to mouth off for 5 mins of fame - homosexual jealous farang lover being one of the more silly examples. Add to that the usual standard of Thai reporting and the habit of every man and his dog wanting to see the crime scene and wandering around the mess is understandable. Social media jockeys and professional do-gooders can then whip this up, often for their own ends. People then believe what they want, rather than wait for the evidence.

You then do the same. Quote speculation. Crime of passion, rejection and jealous rage - all leading to a "suspect" many have decided must have done it, simply because they'd love that to be the answer. Profiling the murderer - probably more than one don't you think? Especially as 2 DNA samples were (allegedly) found in the female victim. The pictures were horrific - but could as easily been because those responsible were out of their minds on booze and or drugs. Or maybe they have split personalities; or the violent nature is just hidden under the surface. Do you watch Criminal Minds on TV?

None of us know, that is for sure. We all have our opinions. But, unlike you, many can't accept they may be wrong. That they, through some inherent special skill, know exactly what happened, who did it, and what's gone on since.

[Baerboxer]

JohnThailandJohn, on 25 Oct 2014 - 01:00, said:

Looks like no comments from the parents on their son's DNA matching the semen found in one of the victims. Also no comments about how they may have been forced to participate by a rich Thai.

Let it go to trial ... they have lots of lawyers and groups looking out for them as well as media who have put the case under a microscope.

John, <snip>, the parents probably don't even know what DNA is. But I guess you are entitled to you RTP protectionist views, god knows, they need all the help they can get.

JTJ is a shill writing for TV supporting the official story in any thread - simply ignore him!

Power to the people!

Have you all forgotten the right to life of the brutally murdered British citizens? What about their rights? JTJ gets labeled as a shill just because he points out the issue of DNA. "Power to the People"? What people? What liberal far left organization do you hale from?

The same "power to the people" that used to be evident in witch hunts and trials, inquisitions and lynchings. Most societies have moved on from that. Some want the "good old" days back it seems.

They "know" who did it, and any who dare challenge their collective, nodding donkey, wisdom should be vilified and insulted.

[johnlandy]

Keep cranking up the pressure for transparency and justice in this case.

Unlikely to do any good!

Within 8 hours of the event it was stated "no Thai would have done this"

Their minds were,been made up from day one.

Surprising? NO!

And to say more will get one banned TIT

[crazykopite]

Sounds about right deep down I believe these two guys have been made scapegoats whilst the real killers are free to roam the island under ther protection of there family !

[Baerboxer]

I believe the threat to burn these boys. I am a partner in a resort up North and one night 12 [repeat twelve] cops came in after the restaurant was closed and demanded food. When we told them the kitchen was closed they said they would burn the place down if we did not comply.

Not one of those 12 was decent enough to suggest they do not bother us.

Did they pay?

[Krenjai]

Any more news on the son of the mafia guy?

You won't hear much about him, the village headman I'm sure has paid handsomely for his not being in the news. The person I want to know about is the bloody pommy, I think friend of the murdered couple, who fled the island in a big hurry and was leaving Thailand also, but remember he had the pants with blood on them, stashed in a bag, as not to be found by the cops or anyone else, did they ever do DNA on that blood, they said they interrogated him again, and he had major flaws in his testimony, Where is he now????

He is uploading songs on YouTube, his rebuttal actually made me change my mind on his involvement, still the cut on his arm....from a Motorbike accident? C'mon!

On the other hand WHY did the AC bar not release the footage when he was covered in blood (on that night as they stated) and was cleaned by an AC employee to help him wash it off. Rather strange, also why did it take him so long to wash off the blood on his guitar? And why was he allowed to leave so quickly?