Cameron: UK won't pay £1.7bn EU bill

[japsportscarmad]

Personally I have always thought that De Gaulle had it right 50 odd years ago, he didn't want UK in the EEC as we would only want to run the thing and our foreign policy was, and still is, far too tied to the USA. If UK is not prepared to pay a full and honest role in the EU and pay our sub's when they are due without making a political issue out of it then the EU should politely ask us to resign our membership of the club and face the world on our own, and don't think the common wealth is out there waiting to recreate preferential trade because that era is well and truely over

Countries like Australia and NZ were mighty angry when the UK shut the door on access to the UK market and have favour to the EU.

Historian Phillip Knighly covers this episode well in a few of his books and illustrates it well with annedotes of Australia soliders who fought in WW2 refusing to use the 'others' line at Heathrow and embarrassed IOs having to deal with it.

Fortunately countries in the old commonwealth dealt with it with Canada plugging themselves into NAFTA and Australia and NZ leading the way in APEC and trading with asia - our own reasons.

I think there will be plenty of long memories in these old commonwealth countries who will do the UK no favours given the UKs treatment of their so called Kith and Kin, and so the shouldn't. We've moved on from toadying the UK and have better opportunities playing ball with those in our regions.

Yes it's disgusting how we treated some of our friends who now can't even get visas to visit and we turned our back. We should hold our heads in shame actually. Actually I watched a documentary on Galipoli last night which sort of illustrated how we have had no honour in dealing with our friends.

[lungbing]

Politics...

DC needs something on the table to prevent the the Tories being beaten hard by a party that drew its manifesto up on the back of a beer mat.

Europe will not concede, do not forget if the Tories win an outright majority DC has promised a referendum so it is not in Europe's interest to give DC anything.

UKIP may have written their manifesto on the back of a beermat, but they listened to the people in the pub as they were doing so and wrote down their views.

[RustBucket]

Personally I have always thought that De Gaulle had it right 50 odd years ago, he didn't want UK in the EEC as we would only want to run the thing and our foreign policy was, and still is, far too tied to the USA. If UK is not prepared to pay a full and honest role in the EU and pay our sub's when they are due without making a political issue out of it then the EU should politely ask us to resign our membership of the club and face the world on our own, and don't think the common wealth is out there waiting to recreate preferential trade because that era is well and truely over

Countries like Australia and NZ were mighty angry when the UK shut the door on access to the UK market and have favour to the EU.

Historian Phillip Knighly covers this episode well in a few of his books and illustrates it well with annedotes of Australia soliders who fought in WW2 refusing to use the 'others' line at Heathrow and embarrassed IOs having to deal with it.

Fortunately countries in the old commonwealth dealt with it with Canada plugging themselves into NAFTA and Australia and NZ leading the way in APEC and trading with asia - our own reasons.

I think there will be plenty of long memories in these old commonwealth countries who will do the UK no favours given the UKs treatment of their so called Kith and Kin, and so the shouldn't. We've moved on from toadying the UK and have better opportunities playing ball with those in our regions.

Yes it's disgusting how we treated some of our friends who now can't even get visas to visit and we turned our back. We should hold our heads in shame actually. Actually I watched a documentary on Galipoli last night which sort of illustrated how we have had no honour in dealing with our friends.

Everything between the UK and the Commonwealth occurred at the barrel of an EU gun pointing at the UK's head.

There has always been political complainers in the UK against having to favour EU over Commonwealth over the past decades, the issue has even been used as ammo in UKIP's arsenal.

The problem stems from 2 things. Over immigration and EU trade directives. The EU wants 100% free movement of EU citizens within the EU and wants to freeze out as much inward trade of Non EU countries with EU countries. It also wants centalised government and the abolition of sovereign rule although they never admit it.

[japsportscarmad]

Well said

[bkkcanuck8]

Canada NAFTA had nothing to do with the UK and EU situation..... 80% of Canada's trade is North South because of proximity of the majority of the population located within a stones throw of the US and them being our only close neighbour.... it is a matter of geography.

Canada has had a bad reputation of negotiating trade agreements then not following through with them.... but this last government has stuck through so far and CETA - Canada / EU will likely be signed and sealed shortly. It will actually be a little more beef to it than NAFTA - which should be revisited sometime anyway. Even with the EU agreement it will change little on the overall percentages of Canada's trade.

It would actually be funny if the UK left just as Canada was signing their agreement with the EU

Edited October 26, 2014 by bkkcanuck8

[RustBucket]

Canada NAFTA had nothing to do with the UK and EU situation..... 80% of Canada's trade is North South because of proximity of the majority of the population located within a stones throw of the US and them being our only close neighbour.... it is a matter of geography.

Canada has had a bad reputation of negotiating trade agreements then not following through with them.... but this last government has stuck through so far and CETA - Canada / EU will likely be signed and sealed shortly. It will actually be a little more beef to it than NAFTA - which should be revisited sometime anyway. Even with the EU agreement it will change little on the overall percentages of Canada's trade.

It would actually be funny if the UK left just as Canada was signing their agreement with the EU

It would actually be funny if the UK left just as Canada was signing their agreement with the EU

Why?

Britain out of the EU has the ability to negotiate it's own trade agreements with any country in the world and with the EU as a block trading partner.

The EU have no say in what a British/Canadian trade agreement follows.

Unless I misread what you meant.

Edited October 26, 2014 by RustBucket

[bkkcanuck8]

Canada NAFTA had nothing to do with the UK and EU situation..... 80% of Canada's trade is North South because of proximity of the majority of the population located within a stones throw of the US and them being our only close neighbour.... it is a matter of geography.

Canada has had a bad reputation of negotiating trade agreements then not following through with them.... but this last government has stuck through so far and CETA - Canada / EU will likely be signed and sealed shortly. It will actually be a little more beef to it than NAFTA - which should be revisited sometime anyway. Even with the EU agreement it will change little on the overall percentages of Canada's trade.

It would actually be funny if the UK left just as Canada was signing their agreement with the EU

It would actually be funny if the UK left just as Canada was signing their agreement with the EU

Why?

Britain out of the EU has the ability to negotiate it's own trade agreements with any country in the world and with the EU as a block trading partner.

The EU have no say in what a British/Canadian trade agreement follows.

Unless I misread what you meant.

Just funny timing.... Yes, the UK could sign a new agreement with any country - but it would take years for each one that was negotiated (and rarely do countries do lots at the same time). Of course the most important trade negotiations would have to be the EU again -- and I don't know how that would go.... why leave, then negotiate a comprehensive trade agreement again..... what would that do with free movement of labour? What would happen with EU people working in the UK and what would happen with the UK people working in the EU. Then of course there is the uncertainty of what the corporations would do? There are a lot of unknowns that would have to be worked through -- and it would definately have at least a short-term impact on the UK economy while things are worked through (probably at least 5 years).

[RustBucket]

Canada NAFTA had nothing to do with the UK and EU situation..... 80% of Canada's trade is North South because of proximity of the majority of the population located within a stones throw of the US and them being our only close neighbour.... it is a matter of geography.

Canada has had a bad reputation of negotiating trade agreements then not following through with them.... but this last government has stuck through so far and CETA - Canada / EU will likely be signed and sealed shortly. It will actually be a little more beef to it than NAFTA - which should be revisited sometime anyway. Even with the EU agreement it will change little on the overall percentages of Canada's trade.

It would actually be funny if the UK left just as Canada was signing their agreement with the EU

It would actually be funny if the UK left just as Canada was signing their agreement with the EU

Why?

Britain out of the EU has the ability to negotiate it's own trade agreements with any country in the world and with the EU as a block trading partner.

The EU have no say in what a British/Canadian trade agreement follows.

Unless I misread what you meant.

Just funny timing.... Yes, the UK could sign a new agreement with any country - but it would take years for each one that was negotiated (and rarely do countries do lots at the same time). Of course the most important trade negotiations would have to be the EU again -- and I don't know how that would go.... why leave, then negotiate a comprehensive trade agreement again..... what would that do with free movement of labour? What would happen with EU people working in the UK and what would happen with the UK people working in the EU. Then of course there is the uncertainty of what the corporations would do? There are a lot of unknowns that would have to be worked through -- and it would definately have at least a short-term impact on the UK economy while things are worked through (probably at least 5 years).

The UK can probably negotiate a very similar trade deal with the EU, they do have a lot of sway because of the UK market. I can see a low tariff agreement forthcoming. It is always better for a nation like the UK who makes the vast majority of its wealth from finance rather than export. Because we are seen as a rather attractive market. I doubt the EU would hand out punitively high tariffs to the UK because the UK would simply reciprocate and that wouldn't be welcomed from our bigger trading partners such as Germany.

We also still have a manufacturing industry, don't believe what other people say about that because we do. I am from the UK and regularly drive the length and breadth of the country and there is industry both large and small everywhere. We also have plenty of agriculture. So we have the ability to be largely self sufficient. The rest of the world can provide whatever shortfall there is. So really even if the EU put a complete trade ban on us.... so what? No more German or French motor cars etc... Big deal, we still manufacture cars in the UK especially for the Japs.

With regards to negotiating lots of trade agreements. There will already be a set of default trade agreements, and even just keep the same agreements as we are tied to from the EU for the intermediate future, and over time fine tune each one. So with the UK's withdrawal, it will be relatively simple to set that in motion without much disruption.

UK citizens working in the EU? I assume the system in individual EU countries will revert back to pre-EU days as it will with EU workers in the UK. They will have to go through the process of visa and work permint applications much the same way we do here. I also assume that all benefits will be suspended for those who arrive on our shores and walk straight into the benefits agency and claim money.

Regarding use of the UK health and education services. I assume migrants will have to pay for it until they have paid tax and contributions for more than 5 years.

Edited October 26, 2014 by RustBucket

[japsportscarmad]

Apart from UKIP none of the parties really want us out as it screws up the cheap labour for their business backers to lower wage rates in the UK. If we get out at least we can start to repatriate many who have come so freeing up more housing doctors and school places for those left.

[RustBucket]

Apart from UKIP none of the parties really want us out as it screws up the cheap labour for their business backers to lower wage rates in the UK. If we get out at least we can start to repatriate many who have come so freeing up more housing doctors and school places for those left.

Exactly, and it keeps the criminals out because police checks will be part of the visa application system.

[japsportscarmad]

No many criminals will still visit we won't stop Tony Blair even with Nigel in power :-) Or perhaps we will.

[bkkcanuck8]

The UK can probably negotiate a very similar trade deal with the EU, they do have a lot of sway because of the UK market. I can see a low tariff agreement forthcoming. It is always better for a nation like the UK who makes the vast majority of its wealth from finance rather than export. Because we are seen as a rather attractive market. I doubt the EU would hand out punitively high tariffs to the UK because the UK would simply reciprocate and that wouldn't be welcomed from our bigger trading partners such as Germany.

We also still have a manufacturing industry, don't believe what other people say about that because we do. I am from the UK and regularly drive the length and breadth of the country and there is industry both large and small everywhere. We also have plenty of agriculture. So we have the ability to be largely self sufficient. The rest of the world can provide whatever shortfall there is. So really even if the EU put a complete trade ban on us.... so what? No more German or French motor cars etc... Big deal, we still manufacture cars in the UK especially for the Japs.

With regards to negotiating lots of trade agreements. There will already be a set of default trade agreements, and even just keep the same agreements as we are tied to from the EU for the intermediate future, and over time fine tune each one. So with the UK's withdrawal, it will be relatively simple to set that in motion without much disruption.

UK citizens working in the EU? I assume the system in individual EU countries will revert back to pre-EU days as it will with EU workers in the UK. They will have to go through the process of visa and work permint applications much the same way we do here. I also assume that all benefits will be suspended for those who arrive on our shores and walk straight into the benefits agency and claim money.

Regarding use of the UK health and education services. I assume migrants will have to pay for it until they have paid tax and contributions for more than 5 years.

The real problem I have with the whole situation is that I find trade agreements to be problematic if you allow the free flow of goods, and of jobs -- but not of labour. I don't like trade agreements that don't include the free movement of labour. I have no problem with border security, and using national borders as sort of a fishing net to catch those that should not be there - but that would require complete access to all levels of national data so that border security agents can scan license and passports against the master database - the ability for all wants & warrants to be accessible to foreign border agents and potentially the move towards national ids for all that are with the bloc.

Issuance of visa and work permits by nations tends to become bound in a lot of red tape, and a very cumbersome process.... where it is used more as a market protection to support the laziest in society.

Edited October 27, 2014 by bkkcanuck8

[mrfill]

I thought the issue was that Britain has had to restate it's GDP figures because the treasury can't count.

Those figures fed into the calculation of the UK's payments into the EU.

All that's happened is the EU recalculated the UK payment for the last 11 years in line with the new figures and worked out the amount owed.

The UK government might have a point in relation to the deadline, but it's the Treasury that couldn't get it's sums right, so shouldn't there be some civil servant somewhere getting sacked for this.

At last, someone who has seen the light!

There's an election coming up in 6 months and it is time to try and lure the electorate.

At the party conference recently speaker after speaker (including the chancellor and PM) were saying how successful the economy is, best in Europe (applause) , far better than Germany or France (more applause) and how all these Johnny Foreigners are useless (cheering and applause).

Pandering and making dodgy claims is all part of electioneering. Problem is, they have been hoisted on their own petard as EU contributions are based on GDP growth and on top of that, they did not pay the correct amount since 2010 so have ended up with a bill for back payments.

Rather similar to vodafone and their outstanding tax bill (£6bn). However, the EU are not so impressed by a fancy dinner and a funny handshake so they haven't just cancelled the debt.

That was one expensive dinner. Dave and his cronies would have had an extra £4.3bn to 'administer' even after paying their EU debts.

Remember also that Niggel Farridge MEP is one of the major beneficiaries of EU contributions but as an ordinary bloke (who happens to be a retired merchant banker millionaire and highly paid member of the European Parliament) he won't be returning any of his over inflated salary.

[japsportscarmad]

I thought the issue was that Britain has had to restate it's GDP figures because the treasury can't count.

Those figures fed into the calculation of the UK's payments into the EU.

All that's happened is the EU recalculated the UK payment for the last 11 years in line with the new figures and worked out the amount owed.

The UK government might have a point in relation to the deadline, but it's the Treasury that couldn't get it's sums right, so shouldn't there be some civil servant somewhere getting sacked for this.

At last, someone who has seen the light!

There's an election coming up in 6 months and it is time to try and lure the electorate.

At the party conference recently speaker after speaker (including the chancellor and PM) were saying how successful the economy is, best in Europe (applause) , far better than Germany or France (more applause) and how all these Johnny Foreigners are useless (cheering and applause).

Pandering and making dodgy claims is all part of electioneering. Problem is, they have been hoisted on their own petard as EU contributions are based on GDP growth and on top of that, they did not pay the correct amount since 2010 so have ended up with a bill for back payments.

Rather similar to vodafone and their outstanding tax bill (£6bn). However, the EU are not so impressed by a fancy dinner and a funny handshake so they haven't just cancelled the debt.

That was one expensive dinner. Dave and his cronies would have had an extra £4.3bn to 'administer' even after paying their EU debts.

Remember also that Niggel Farridge MEP is one of the major beneficiaries of EU contributions but as an ordinary bloke (who happens to be a retired merchant banker millionaire and highly paid member of the European Parliament) he won't be returning any of his over inflated salary.

Your right about Nigel and it is true he was a merchant but he's still looking better than the other two ( sorry cleg doesn't count)

Actually Cameron said he refused to pay, now he's back tracked and said he won't pay on time

Edited October 27, 2014 by japsportscarmad

[japsportscarmad]

Now Cameron's wobbled and said he'll look at how the bill hashed put together bloody hell it's 10% of our foreign aid budged Imhope we don't have so stop paying foreign aid the cover it NOT

[puck2]

To understand what happens with the EU bill for the Brits let me tell you a (nearly) true story.

10 men regularly have a dinner in the pub: a Greec, an Italian, a French, a Portuguese, a Spaniard. a Cypryan, a Brit, a Finn, a Dutch and a German. It didn't come cheaply, 500 Euro for all. The guests settled the bill as follows:

- 4 guests didn't pay any Euro; the Greec, the Italian, the Spaniard and the Portuguese

- the Cyprian 1 €, the French 5 €, the Brit 50 €, the Finn 80 €, the Dutch 100 €

- the German 264 €

Because they liked this dinner so much they had had it again and again and evberybody was pleased. Every dinner cost exactly 500 €. The host of the pub was so happy and told them: my dear guests, from now on you will get a discount of 10%.

The guests did their math and ascertained beyond doubt that every paying member (6) would save 8,33 €. But then they recognised the Cyprian and the French would receive some money for having a dinner. O my dear, that won't work.

The host sugested then the 10% discount should go to those who had to pay. His proposal

- the four who didn't pay any € , no change

- the Cyprian 0 € - saving 100%

- the French 4 € - saving 20%

- the Brit 45 € - saving 10%

- the Finn 72 € - saving 10%

- the Dutch 90 € - saving 10%

- the German 239 € - saving 11%

The first 4 mentioned would have a lunch for free -as before - and the remaining 6 guests would pay less !

After the dinner they had their doubts and calculated again.

The French said " I've got only 1 € and pointing at the German but he saved 25 €.

"Yes", confirmed the Cyprian, "me only 1 €, but the Greman 20 times more".

"How true", the Brit demured. "Why does he get back 25, me only 5 ? The Germans are getting all, as always."

And the the Greec, the Italian, the Spaniard and the Portoguese unanimously: "Hold it. We didn't get anything. The system exploits us."

Out of nowhere all 9 attacked the German and pummelt him.

Next time the German didn't appaer for the dinner. The remainder 9 had their dinner alone. When there was the moment to pay the bill they have been surpised very much.

All 9 together didn't have enough money in their pockets to pay for their sumptuous dinner !

[H1w4yR1da]

"We're not gonna pay it

No! We ain't gonna pay it

We're not gonna pay it,

Anymore"

[japsportscarmad]

"We're not gonna pay it

No! We ain't gonna pay it

We're not gonna pay it,

Anymore"

Bet we do in the end now Cameron's tried to look tough as he's now saying 'I am not paying by December' originally it was 'I'm not paying it' Technically he's right as the rest of us are!!!

[MJP]

"We're not gonna pay it

No! We ain't gonna pay it

We're not gonna pay it,

Anymore"

Bet we do in the end now Cameron's tried to look tough as he's now saying 'I am not paying by December' originally it was 'I'm not paying it' Technically he's right as the rest of us are!!!

Just QE the money and turn it into Euros and send it.

Sends the quid down for a day and pump primes the Eurozone for a day.

[MAJIC]

Cameron has been handed a nice little chance to play the tough guy,"Im not paying the 1.7 Billion" to the EU,he will likely play this game,until after the next Election,thinking this will help his chances to win the next Election,he's unlikely to win,but if he does he will renade,and pay up! because he doesn't have any backing in Europe,even Angela Merkel has dumped him! as a liability to her credibility!

[japsportscarmad]

Yea we've really screwed any chance of making it work so it's either out and risk it on and risk it. I'm out so to speak but hell it's a risk.

[MAJIC]

To understand what happens with the EU bill for the Brits let me tell you a (nearly) true story.

10 men regularly have a dinner in the pub: a Greec, an Italian, a French, a Portuguese, a Spaniard. a Cypryan, a Brit, a Finn, a Dutch and a German. It didn't come cheaply, 500 Euro for all. The guests settled the bill as follows:

- 4 guests didn't pay any Euro; the Greec, the Italian, the Spaniard and the Portuguese

- the Cyprian 1 €, the French 5 €, the Brit 50 €, the Finn 80 €, the Dutch 100 €

- the German 264 €

Because they liked this dinner so much they had had it again and again and evberybody was pleased. Every dinner cost exactly 500 €. The host of the pub was so happy and told them: my dear guests, from now on you will get a discount of 10%.

The guests did their math and ascertained beyond doubt that every paying member (6) would save 8,33 €. But then they recognised the Cyprian and the French would receive some money for having a dinner. O my dear, that won't work.

The host sugested then the 10% discount should go to those who had to pay. His proposal

- the four who didn't pay any € , no change

- the Cyprian 0 € - saving 100%

- the French 4 € - saving 20%

- the Brit 45 € - saving 10%

- the Finn 72 € - saving 10%

- the Dutch 90 € - saving 10%

- the German 239 € - saving 11%

The first 4 mentioned would have a lunch for free -as before - and the remaining 6 guests would pay less !

After the dinner they had their doubts and calculated again.

The French said " I've got only 1 € and pointing at the German but he saved 25 €.

"Yes", confirmed the Cyprian, "me only 1 €, but the Greman 20 times more".

"How true", the Brit demured. "Why does he get back 25, me only 5 ? The Germans are getting all, as always."

And the the Greec, the Italian, the Spaniard and the Portoguese unanimously: "Hold it. We didn't get anything. The system exploits us."

Out of nowhere all 9 attacked the German and pummelt him.

Next time the German didn't appaer for the dinner. The remainder 9 had their dinner alone. When there was the moment to pay the bill they have been surpised very much.

All 9 together didn't have enough money in their pockets to pay for their sumptuous dinner !

Didn't you forget the Irish in your Dinner calculations? I seem to remember them as members of the free dinner club?

[japsportscarmad]

Yea but the Brits like them better than the French. They built all their motorways in fact they were given a bit of a bung by the UK at the start of the crisis to help them out.

Edited November 2, 2014 by japsportscarmad

[MAJIC]

Yea we've really screwed any chance of making it work so it's either out and risk it on and risk it. I'm out so to speak but hell it's a risk.

I would be all for risking it under UKIP,but with Cameron and the Tories at the helm,it's dead in the water,Cameron has only agreed to give a Referendom in 2017 because his Party forced him,he and indeed they are staunch committed Europhiles,....but what the hell,anything goes to cling to power!

[japsportscarmad]

Your right to be honest but to me most of UKIP looks off its trolley not much better than that Monster Raving Luny Party that used to stand every year! What happened to them?

But the other two parties are really the same and Cleg is just risible.

The immigration debate is the Elephant in the room so who knows what will happen, as they all seem to say we need more immigration to feed the pensioners but it's a self defeating process as each generation needs more to pay like a big pyramid selling scheme.

My home town back in the North started putting road signs for road works in English and Polish I kid you not.

The block of flats I own one of the flats in London is full of Eastern Europeans on housing benefit and the rents are at least £1,500 a month and even when I was working I would have struggled to afford that sort of rent, in fact last time back I took the car to the hand car wash and the guy washing it said 'I've seen your car at the flats I was looking at'. Thats a lot of housing benefit for a guy 3 months in the country doing a job to be honest apart from me been lazy we don't need doing.

I don't blame them for coming or claiming in fact they're usually nice people and keep an eye on the cars and flat while I am away, but the countries gone mad so maybe UKIP are at least the answer to get the others to at least change, immigration and the EU are certainly on the agenda so s the 12 billion foreign aid budget.

I badly damaged my neck so much I gave up most of my security work certainly anything 'on site' and couldn't get a penny in help from the government even though I'd worked served my country and paid a lot of tax all my life. In fact the woman at the benefits office sarcastically told me I'd been lucky and been able to buy a flat and save money. It makes you so angry and the political elite just do not understand what the anger is and why.

[MAJIC]

Your right to be honest but to me most of UKIP looks off its trolley not much better than that Monster Raving Luny Party that used to stand every year! What happened to them?

But the other two parties are really the same and Cleg is just risible.

The immigration debate is the Elephant in the room so who knows what will happen, as they all seem to say we need more immigration to feed the pensioners but it's a self defeating process as each generation needs more to pay like a big pyramid selling scheme.

My home town back in the North started putting road signs for road works in English and Polish I kid you not.

The block of flats I own one of the flats in London is full of Eastern Europeans on housing benefit and the rents are at least £1,500 a month and even when I was working I would have struggled to afford that sort of rent, in fact last time back I took the car to the hand car wash and the guy washing it said 'I've seen your car at the flats I was looking at'. Thats a lot of housing benefit for a guy 3 months in the country doing a job to be honest apart from me been lazy we don't need doing.

I don't blame them for coming or claiming in fact they're usually nice people and keep an eye on the cars and flat while I am away, but the countries gone mad so maybe UKIP are at least the answer to get the others to at least change, immigration and the EU are certainly on the agenda so s the 12 billion foreign aid budget.

I badly damaged my neck so much I gave up most of my security work certainly anything 'on site' and couldn't get a penny in help from the government even though I'd worked served my country and paid a lot of tax all my life. In fact the woman at the benefits office sarcastically told me I'd been lucky and been able to buy a flat and save money. It makes you so angry and the political elite just do not understand what the anger is and why.

George Osborne has recently apologised to UKIP for derogatory remarks of the credibility of the UKIP Party,I'm really looking forward to the Election early next May /July,it's likely to be some long overdue shocks for the main Parties!

[MAJIC]

I think the EU are campaigning for UKIP

They don't need to campaign for UKIP,Cameron has already done that,

"If people think I am paying that bill on 1 December, they have another think coming," the prime minister said in Brussels. "It is not going to happen."

And why do we have the Bill in the first place,seems like a disguised penalty from the EU because thanks to him we no longer have any friends in Europe,the sooner we get out the better!

Edited November 2, 2014 by MAJIC

[rhythmworx]

Without boring myself with the thread.

He has no choice not to pay it, he is just trying to accumulate more voters.

[japsportscarmad]

Without boring myself with the thread.

He has no choice not to pay it, he is just trying to accumulate more voters.

Your right :-)

[rhythmworx]

I think the EU are campaigning for UKIP

They don't need to campaign for UKIP,Cameron has already done that,

"If people think I am paying that bill on 1 December, they have another think coming," the prime minister said in Brussels. "It is not going to happen."

And why do we have the Bill in the first place,seems like a disguised penalty from the EU because thanks to him we no longer have any friends in Europe,the sooner we get out the better!

Unfortunately a UKIP vote is a wasted vote that will detract from Labour votes and so the Conservatives will win again.

One thing I would like to ask anyone who knows though is this,

I voted earlier in the year to get out of Europe.

When will the results come in, seems like I'm voting for nothing, when do we hear the outcome?

When is this alleged referendum going to take place?