Bozo Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I don't think it is a sin if someone wants to have a better life and can only achieve it by being a prostitute. Meemiathai, Not only is it not a sin, but one can consider it a very respectable job, as any other work. Let's overcome the old Western Judeo-Christian based laws, we are in Thailand, dear... In the traditionnal Chinese & Japanese culture, and withing other things, it can usually allow a woman to make herself a dowry, access a higher social layer, and find a very respectable husband, in order to create a beautifully harmonious family later on. Real Geishas in Japan (no sex) still are better considered than most of housewives ; rather like both a "businesswoman+a talented entertainer+an unaccessible dream of how one's wife could be" (and trust me, it is for you to pay the "bar-fine-dowry" to the Geisha house, if marriage is allowed - very rare actually - never to Gaijins - and you have to count it in millions of... USD). I am not sure for the Thai traditionnal culture, but it is obviously in Thailand a way to escalate the social scale (that is currently unfortunately being put in jeopardy...), and therefore allows a sane, safe & regular level of change & intermingling in this society... It is obviously more accessible to less fortunate Thai & Westerners, and is otherwise a matter of personnal discernment to chose a BG, who is not a BG in the heart (difficult !), and there are many indeed !... As for the fact that poor people can help themselves by entering prostitution, it is an obvious say. But it is certainly not the only way or solution, is it ?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 As for having an empty pocket and lots of bills waiting to be paid, I've been there. I know what it's like. I doubt if you really have. But perhaps you were lucky being as capable as you are and had sought for better ways to deal with the problems. But once again, not everyone is as capable as you are. I am not asking people to sympathize prostitutes, but please don't make their lives more miserable. Like giving them nasty looks or whatsoever. Since they did not do anything to harm you or anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gentleman Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 You sound like you are sticking up for the bar girls, for no other reason, than you married one?, I will stick up for anyone who is less fortune in their lives, and while not having harmed anyone for what they do being looked down upon by the others who think they are of higher status. Have you be harmed by all the prostitutes you came across with? The poverty side, well I was a street kid for four years and a run away for most of my preteen years, so to not eat and to be poor, I have a fair idea of what thats about - there was no government handouts to kids under fifteen at that time - The Salvation Army and the government early morning soup van, were the only restaurants I went to.My point is, I would say that my situation when growing up, was probably as bad as any "bad upbringing", but I didnt sell myself to eat etc, I worked for food and shelter and ended up joining the Army, which saved my life! The majority of the people I grew up with are dead from drug related stuff, be it overdose or gang related - the feel sorry for you stories, that you bring up, fall on deaf ears with me - although I agree its sad, its only a hurdle - jump over it! May I ask which country you are from? Do you think all people have Salvation Army or the government to run to? And for what you have achieved, good for you. Perhaps you were brilliant, intelligent and hard-working. But I would like to remind you that not everyone has the same ability and luck while struggling for a living. I dont think anyone here is saying they are of a higher status, we are saying its about choice, not circumstances. You are saying they need to be stuck up for - they chose to do it - unless they are sold into it or pressured. Funny enough, I have been harmed by an "ex prostitue", my mates girlfirend got angy with him and she threw a glass - she missed him and I got 13 stitches in my face - true story! I am Australian and if you think a cup of soup and a two day old pie was the Hilton - it wasnt, but very well recieved. Anyone in Thailand is asked every day - have you eaten?, do you want to eat?, sit with us and share a meal - so running next door is all you have to do to eat here . You make your own luck mate and nearly everyone has the same chances if they apply themselves - Jesus Christ, If a farang street kid can become wealthy, why cant a Thai street kid - tenacity and respect for ones self! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 A Person is a Person judge them for who they really are, not profession they are in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 A Person is a Person judge them for who they really are, not profession they are in! SHORT AND CLEAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 - Jesus Christ, If a farang street kid can become wealthy, why cant a Thai street kid - I don't think they are the same. And as you say, "The majority of the people I grew up with are dead from drug related stuff, be it overdose or gang related" Do they all deserve to be looked down upon at? For me, I don't. Drug addict or not, it is the person that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zendesigner Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Hi, Prostitutes all over the world have mostly a common reason to start in the buisiness. It doesn't matter if it's thailand, holland, US or where ever. Most of the volentary prostitution is because a woman is temporary in dire straits, needs money quick and is adviced or coached often by a friend in to prostitution. The first few jobs are ###### but they do them cause they still need the money. They all start by saying ," oh i'm gonna do this two weeks till my debts are paid" The reason why most of them Continue to do this job is because the money catches them and the abundance of money becomes overwhelming. Especially because they had this problem before. Money becomes an easy addiction. Especially because they not really have to work that hard. I had a former girlfriend about 8 years ago who was a prostitute in holland. She started this job when she had 8 euro's in her pocket and no food to eat after that. After Three weeks She made 7500 euro. Her basic income a month was around 8200 euro's ( 300.000 bath) all not taxed , so clear in pocket. She could by all of the clothes she wanted, eat in fancy restaurants often paid by clients, drive in a nice car....She also said she was going to get out in a year ect... They just can't as long as they are making money. When the money goes down because they are not that young and pretty anymore then they will find it somehow easyer to quit. Hopefully for them they will have saved some money also... most of them don't anyway. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elsie Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I doubt if you really have. But perhaps you were lucky being as capable as you are and had sought for better ways to deal with the problems. But once again, not everyone is as capable as you are.I am not asking people to sympathize prostitutes, but please don't make their lives more miserable. Like giving them nasty looks or whatsoever. Since they did not do anything to harm you or anyone. I really have. And those days were not the best days in my whole life. I have to admit I've been lucky than some others. So, I could get back on track by choosing a better way out. Regarding not harming anyone, Hmm... well, not really harm me. But this certain profession has had effects on all "Thai women" I've travelled quite a bit. So, I've had some unpleasant experiences. I don't want to start it here and now as I'm afraid I will accidentally bite someone. So, once again, I am not saying that all bar girls are evil. I've known some evil non-bar girls. And they are truly evil. I'm just saying that we all have a choice. My choice was probably better than an ex-bar girl. An ex-bar girl's choice was probably better than another's. I'm with the gent on this. We're talking about choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Regarding not harming anyone, Hmm... well, not really harm me. But this certain profession has had effects on all "Thai women" I've travelled quite a bit. So, I've had some unpleasant experiences. Kau jai mak kup Mia phom gor meuan gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gentleman Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 - Jesus Christ, If a farang street kid can become wealthy, why cant a Thai street kid - I don't think they are the same. And as you say, "The majority of the people I grew up with are dead from drug related stuff, be it overdose or gang related" Do they all deserve to be looked down upon at? For me, I don't. Drug addict or not, it is the person that counts. yes they are dead, they chose that life - I am not characterising a person or a job, I am saying they chose to do it and some of them love it - you keep saying they are less fortunate and we should not be looking down on them - do they need our sympathy?, who is looking down on them? - you can still have a point of view, without a judgement call and a generalisation - Whats next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elsie Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Kau jai mak kup Mia phom gor meuan gun I can't imagine myself going through all procedures at the British Embassy again. Anyway, it's late now and I just want to lighten up a bit.. anyone wants me to sing? Perhaps all you guys will log off and go to sleep right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Go ahead liven this place up with a song! Your choice of song naturally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elsie Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 *Edited by me* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elsie Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 *Edited by me too as I am not supposed to be so girlie around here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natee1 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 So that's 15000 a month For two people.....She must be thinking she has a cheap thai boyfriend instead of a farang one I don't know many Thai guys making 15000 a month, but I do know many Thai women who would be very happy if their guy gave them 100 B every day for food... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natee1 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Now im not sure what to do, more advice needed, i have spoken to her alot about my/our situation, also explaind about this forum and what some of the members are saying, she has now voluntered to get a job in the resturant she use to work before she went to the bar, problem is it's for 8 hours at night, now im paranoid she fall into the old life style, should i let her work again or not??? not really sure what to do??It would bring in 4500b p.m plus tips mabey an extra 1000 or so?? Yes, "let" her work to earn some money, definetly ! Then, if she doesn't buy you a couple of ice-cold beerbottles from her salary every night on her way home from work, call her a CHEAP CHARLIE !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Now im not sure what to do, more advice needed, i have spoken to her alot about my/our situation, also explaind about this forum and what some of the members are saying, she has now voluntered to get a job in the resturant she use to work before she went to the bar, problem is it's for 8 hours at night, now im paranoid she fall into the old life style, should i let her work again or not??? not really sure what to do??It would bring in 4500b p.m plus tips mabey an extra 1000 or so?? Yes, "let" her work to earn some money, definetly ! Then, if she doesn't buy you a couple of ice-cold beerbottles from her salary every night on her way home from work, call her a CHEAP CHARLIE !!! Wouldn't she be a cheap Charlene ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winle Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Wouldn't she be a cheap Charlene ? Not really pat pong, cus charlie is short for Charlene as well, sorry about that mate.. Any way its her first night at work tonight, shall i start taking bets on how long it is before shes off with a rich older man??? I give her a 2 weeks, lets say the 2hd april, care to guess mabey we could get a sweep steak going, only for fun of course TIT,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxexile Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Ok! Either one or none, I'll sing anyway! Martina McBride - Valentine Piano by Jim Brickman If there were no words No way to speak I would still hear you If there were no tears No way to feel inside I'd still feel for you And even if the sun refused to shine Even if romance ran out of rhyme You would still have my heart until the end of time You're all I need, my love, my Valentine All of my life I have been waiting for All you give to me You've opened my eyes And shown me how to love unselfishly I've dreamed of this a thousand times before But in my dreams I couldn't love you more I will give you my heart Until the end of time You're all I need, my love, my Valentine And even if the sun refused to shine Even if romance ran out of rhyme You would still have my heart until the end of time 'Cause all I need is you, my Valentine You're all I need, my love, my Valentine ---------- Love is not blind - it sees more, not less. But because it sees more, it is willing to see less. Rabbi Julius Gordon -------------------- Any piece of clothing can be sexy with a quietly passionate woman inside it. LovelyCutie Posted: Fri 2004-03-19, 19:28:09 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 95 Member No.: 7,865 Joined: 2004-02-26 Almost 2.30am here and I am going to see my dear pillow now. Love each other, honour each other, take good care of each other, be kind to each other, Love Actually Is All Around.. Have a good night's sleep ka. -------------------- Any piece of clothing can be sexy with a quietly passionate woman inside it. hey miss cuteypants.....give us all a rest from your sugary sickly high school teenage drivel and put a sock in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasi Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Winle: interesting thread, sounds like you're pretty smart at managing your $. What you are spending now is very little. Even on an english teachers salary you could afford to spend a little more on her. She is a a former BG and is used to having some money. If she was still working the bar she would be making at least 500 baht a day. If it was me and I wanted to keep her home at night and away from the temptation of turning some tricks behind my back I'd be giving her around 500 baht a day which really isnt very much. I can see why she might be insulted at the 100 baht a day allowance. But if thats all you can afford I'd say you cant really afford to have a girlfriend. You have got to pay to play. Nobody gets it for free. I'd say you've been getting it for almost free. I think the girls deserve a little more respect ie. $. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davethailand Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Ok! Either one or none, I'll sing anyway! Martina McBride - Valentine Piano by Jim Brickman If there were no words No way to speak I would still hear you If there were no tears No way to feel inside I'd still feel for you And even if the sun refused to shine Even if romance ran out of rhyme You would still have my heart until the end of time You're all I need, my love, my Valentine All of my life I have been waiting for All you give to me You've opened my eyes And shown me how to love unselfishly I've dreamed of this a thousand times before But in my dreams I couldn't love you more I will give you my heart Until the end of time You're all I need, my love, my Valentine And even if the sun refused to shine Even if romance ran out of rhyme You would still have my heart until the end of time 'Cause all I need is you, my Valentine You're all I need, my love, my Valentine ---------- Love is not blind - it sees more, not less. But because it sees more, it is willing to see less. Rabbi Julius Gordon -------------------- Any piece of clothing can be sexy with a quietly passionate woman inside it. LovelyCutie Posted: Fri 2004-03-19, 19:28:09 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 95 Member No.: 7,865 Joined: 2004-02-26 Almost 2.30am here and I am going to see my dear pillow now. Love each other, honour each other, take good care of each other, be kind to each other, Love Actually Is All Around.. Have a good night's sleep ka. -------------------- Any piece of clothing can be sexy with a quietly passionate woman inside it. hey miss cuteypants.....give us all a rest from your sugary sickly high school teenage drivel and put a sock in it. why are you so offended by her?, people can write what they like, if you don't like it don't read it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elsie Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 hey miss cuteypants.....give us all a rest from your sugary sickly high school teenage drivel and put a sock in it. Thanks for your comment. When I decided to join this forum, I didn't expect everyone would love everything I wrote here. So, that's all right. I cannot please everyone anyway. When I said something smart, someone accused me of being a white male. When I said something so girlie or stupid, someone was offended by it. Uhhh... who says women are hard to please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gentleman Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 taxexile - get back to the bear pit mate - why would you abuse her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Thanks for your comment. When I decided to join this forum, I didn't expect everyone would love everything I wrote here. So, that's all right. I cannot please everyone anyway. True, you cannot be friend with everyone. Same with me, and this has nothing to do if you are a Thai female, or an European man..... This is it, why I like this Thaivisa-Forum. Unlike other sites I tried out on the internet, Thaivisa-Forum administrators are very liberal and tolerant, accepting any kind of opinion to be posted, regardless from whom - this makes this site interesting and successful. It is not a one-way forum! I tried other sites, too, but administrators there are often very single-sided persons, just serving a certain group of people, who share one opinion. For example, if it is a Catholic site, any posting about defending Muslim or Buddhist views will be deleted. Or if it is conservative American site, any new poster from Europe will receive some abusive words as welcome from everybody, and if you reply to them in the same way, only you will be banned. I had several negative experiences, so I made my own little website, where I can post, what I want. - I like this Thaivisa-forum, it contains a lot of informations of any kind, regarding Thailand and its neighbouring countries. And everybody can post everything on this remarkable huge forum.... Just continue to post your opinion and do not feel offended at all, regardless what other people reply to you. You have your opinion, I have my opinion and they have their opinion.... What about your own website? Johann http://www2.gol.com/users/johann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elsie Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 True, you cannot be friend with everyone. Same with me, and this has nothing to do if you are a Thai female, or an European man.....This is it, why I like this Thaivisa-Forum. Unlike other sites I tried out on the internet, Thaivisa-Forum administrators are very liberal and tolerant, accepting any kind of opinion to be posted, regardless from whom - this makes this site interesting and successful. It is not a one-way forum! I tried other sites, too, but administrators there are often very single-sided persons, just serving a certain group of people, who share one opinion. For example, if it is a Catholic site, any posting about defending Muslim or Buddhist views will be deleted. Or if it is conservative American site, any new poster from Europe will receive some abusive words as welcome from everybody, and if you reply to them in the same way, only you will be banned. I had several negative experiences, so I made my own little website, where I can post, what I want. - I like this Thaivisa-forum, it contains a lot of informations of any kind, regarding Thailand and its neighbouring countries. And everybody can post everything on this remarkable huge forum.... Just continue to post your opinion and do not feel offended at all, regardless what other people reply to you. You have your opinion, I have my opinion and they have their opinion.... What about your own website? Johann http://www2.gol.com/users/johann Khun Johann, Thank you for your post ka. Yeah, as long as we are still alive, we will accidentally step on someone's foot once in a while. No problem, just apologize and move on. I'm not going to change the way I walk just because of that. I also like this forum a lot. It's unique and very informative. My dear is going to move back to Bangkok, after over 3 years in Tokyo, soon. I am sure we will find useful information here. Thank you again for your support. I am still new here. So, still learning. I'm checking your website now. Your daughters are beautiful! Boy... do I ever miss Japan... Anyway, I'm still working on my website. I've never got it done. I also want to thank davethailand and the gent ka. You both are very kind to me. Can I buy you guys a few beers? Any way its her first night at work tonight, shall i start taking bets on how long it is before shes off with a rich older man???I give her a 2 weeks, lets say the 2hd april, care to guess mabey we could get a sweep steak going, only for fun of course TIT,... Well, I think this's a good opportunity to see what she's really after. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davethailand Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 it would be rude to say no, but only if i can buy you one back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 it would be rude to say no, but only if i can buy you one back Any excuse for taking a mild shandy on a hot day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxexile Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 cuteypants *Edited by me too as I am not supposed to be so girlie around here* you can be as girly as you like, that wasnt what i complained about !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Winle: interesting thread, sounds like you're pretty smart at managing your $. What you are spending now is very little. Even on an english teachers salary you could afford to spend a little more on her. She is a a former BG and is used to having some money. If she was still working the bar she would be making at least 500 baht a day. If it was me and I wanted to keep her home at night and away from the temptation of turning some tricks behind my back I'd be giving her around 500 baht a day which really isnt very much. I can see why she might be insulted at the 100 baht a day allowance. But if thats all you can afford I'd say you cant really afford to have a girlfriend. You have got to pay to play. Nobody gets it for free. I'd say you've been getting it for almost free. I think the girls deserve a little more respect ie. $. Winle, I think it also depends on how serious your relation is. And also how rich you are. 1) If you are not being serious and do not expect a future with her, who cares how much you give, she can always quit for someone who can afford more if she is not satisfied. But you must let her know, as she is 30 already and there is not much time left for her to prepare for her future. 2) If you are serious but tight in money, let her know. I don't think she will want you to pay more than you can afford if she really loves you. I think what you are giving her is more than enough for a basic living. But of course it depends on how wealthy you are. If you are driving a mercedes, earning a few hundred thousand bahts a month and spending a few thousands bahts a day, I think you know the answer. I think relationships are about sharing and compromises of what both parties want in the future. And remind you, she doesn't have the time to fool around with you for a few years and see if the relation works. P.S. I think, once a BG, one would always still be a BG inside until she finds a man that really loves her and can also secure her future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Winle: interesting thread, sounds like you're pretty smart at managing your $. What you are spending now is very little. Even on an english teachers salary you could afford to spend a little more on her. She is a a former BG and is used to having some money. If she was still working the bar she would be making at least 500 baht a day. If it was me and I wanted to keep her home at night and away from the temptation of turning some tricks behind my back I'd be giving her around 500 baht a day which really isnt very much. I can see why she might be insulted at the 100 baht a day allowance. But if thats all you can afford I'd say you cant really afford to have a girlfriend. You have got to pay to play. Nobody gets it for free. I'd say you've been getting it for almost free. I think the girls deserve a little more respect ie. $. Winle, I think it also depends on how serious your relation is. And also how rich you are. 1) If you are not being serious and do not expect a future with her, who cares how much you give, she can always quit for someone who can afford more if she is not satisfied. But you must let her know, as she is 30 already and there is not much time left for her to prepare for her future. 2) If you are serious but tight in money, let her know. I don't think she will want you to pay more than you can afford if she really loves you. I think what you are giving her is more than enough for a basic living. But of course it depends on how wealthy you are. If you are driving a mercedes, earning a few hundred thousand bahts a month and spending a few thousands bahts a day, I think you know the answer. I think relationships are about sharing and compromises of what both parties want in the future. And remind you, she doesn't have the time to fool around with you for a few years and see if the relation works. P.S. I think, once a BG, one would always still be a BG inside until she finds a man that really loves her and can also secure her future. You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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