Thailand's sliding reputation is costing much more than just tourism dollars

[Thai at Heart]

Say "Thailand" to the average person in the street in the West and the words "cheap sex" and "ping-pong balls" are usually what is thought of first.

This is exactly how Thailand is perceived in the main stream western world. I can not count the number of times i have met this prejudiced opinion.

Us who live there know its far from the whole truth about a problematic country - compared to the immense corruption and lack of law enforcement which is the major culprits of this country.

Ah yes. They eat spicy food too.

Thailand has a truly world class sex industry. That is the reality. It is enormous and attracts millions of happy paying customers every year.

What is Thailand famous for? Sex trade, food, car manufacture, temples

I would bet 50% of the respondents would answer - sex trade. That is the bare reality I am afraid. The sex business supports literally millions of poor in Thailand. It is the social system of the country. Without it, the country would collapse.

So let's not be understating how big that business really is.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[razer]

Oversimplification is a joy and sleight of hand hints are very Thai, but there is a time to dance in the shadows and a time to be direct. I have no doubt the PM can be direct as evidenced by the threat to fire prison administrators.

High profile cases are not the issue. The issue is the lack of competency and corruption in the justice system at all levels and I hope the PM will address this in the same way as the prison administrators.

I sincerely hope Mr. Basar does not commit suicide by stabbing himself in the chest 7 times with a knife, or jump from his balcony in a drunken stupor or get in an argument with taxi driver wielding a samurai sword. Certainly these are not high profile crimes.

[paddyjenkins]

Say "Thailand" to the average person in the street in the West and the words "cheap sex" and "ping-pong balls" are usually what is thought of first.

This is exactly how Thailand is perceived in the main stream western world. I can not count the number of times i have met this prejudiced opinion. But perception is reality - so Thailand can not run away from this opinion, unless they change things seriously.

Us who live there know its far from the whole truth about a problematic country - compared to the immense corruption and lack of law enforcement which is the major culprits of this country.

And how did this reputation of seedy sex arise...through stories, the media, word or mouth. And when enough stories of murder, violence, abuse, scams and racism are told so a new association will form. The author says Thailand's reputation may slide. But that needn't imply a gradual shift. A mud slide for example is a sudden rupture that rapidly transforms a landscape. So too will Thailand discover that it's reputation will change in an instant from one that is okay to one that is bad. The years of getting away with anything was an illusion, just like the seeming stability that precedes a violent mud slide is an illusion, as in reality the energy behind the mud slide was building up all along, until it's sudden release. So too every negative event and story about Thailand is not being forgotten, but stored in our collective memory, preparing the ground for a sudden shift in perception from good to bad. I feel the instant of change is close now.

[jamstock]

This guys' wrong. People like the element of danger and uncertainty here (even though it's not dangerous at all). They won't stop coming because of some bad press.

Edited October 29, 2014 by jamstock

[Fred Flinstone]

Australia has a weekly Prime Time show about how bad things are there -

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2014/10/22/the-embassy-a-review/

[gyrosman]

This man has hit the nail on the HEAD. I travelled 48 countries and worked in 7 of the most volient. THAI'S wake-up are you part of the problem or solution>

In the words of ; Mr. JFK; Do what the country can do for you; but What You can Do for the Country.

[expat_4_life]

This man has hit the nail on the HEAD. I travelled 48 countries and worked in 7 of the most volient. THAI'S wake-up are you part of the problem or solution>

In the words of ; Mr. JFK; Do what the country can do for you; but What You can Do for the Country.

Close on the JFK quote --- but not quite.

My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

[PaPiPuPePo]

Here's some news for you farang pseudo reds and pseudo yellows.

Both political parties are corrupt, inept and chock full of people out to enrich themselves, their families and cronies.

As foreigners with no vote, to champion one over the other makes you look foolish.

Please look foolish on another thread and don't pollute this one.

So no opinions allowed then?

Go for it, but, on the zillion threads that already exist for the verbal punch-ups between farang reds and yellows.

This thread is not about Thaksin and whether he is good or, bad.

I have an opinion on the main reasons why the Roman empire fell, but, I'm not going to post it here as this thread is not the right place.

See where I'm coming from?

Well put both times but good luck keeping the reds and yellows from each others throats!

It would be nice to see a discussion of Thai politics that doesn't devolve to that.

[PaPiPuPePo]

Since this is an opinionated story, I thought I would give my opinion too.

I think every country has it's fair share of problems. Look at the USA. OMG! What a violent country that is. Shootings in schools, drugs being legalized, gangs, rapes, crime, riots, free for all media and the glorification of the American warrior and that way of life are some of my concerns for the "leader of the free world." Its not the country I grew up in or spent 20 years defending. I don't even want to get into what I think of the American democratic process or how public opinion is controlled by the media such as Fox News and CNN. American's do love this type of society. If they didn't, they would change. They thrive on it so much they want the rest of the world to be just like them.

So Mr. Hasan Basar, be careful what you wish for because you may not like what you get. Remember, no country is perfect and they all have to find their own way.

Sorry but while I agree the USA is on a similar slide your depiction is over the top and only feeds the inaccurate stereotypes of the US that most of the world has, either idealising it or demonising it.

Edited October 29, 2014 by PaPiPuPePo

[richard10365]

Since this is an opinionated story, I thought I would give my opinion too.

I think every country has it's fair share of problems. Look at the USA. OMG! What a violent country that is. Shootings in schools, drugs being legalized, gangs, rapes, crime, riots, free for all media and the glorification of the American warrior and that way of life are some of my concerns for the "leader of the free world." Its not the country I grew up in or spent 20 years defending. I don't even want to get into what I think of the American democratic process or how public opinion is controlled by the media such as Fox News and CNN. American's do love this type of society. If they didn't, they would change. They thrive on it so much they want the rest of the world to be just like them.

So Mr. Hasan Basar, be careful what you wish for because you may not like what you get. Remember, no country is perfect and they all have to find their own way.

You obviously spend a lot of time in the USA

What a bunch of half-truths.

Maybe you should stick to commenting on a country you've some experience in rather than only know via teevee.

I think as a retired American soldier who grew up in the United States I do have some experience in the United States and have earned the right to have an opinion on the subject.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wabothai]

Check the film " for greater glory ".

[luckyman]

Hasan Basar is a public relations guru

he's prospecting for customers.

Yes, he is, but he did write a good piece here.

i saw his profile at http://th.linkedin.com/pub/hasan-basar/15/856/582

Not that anyone that matters will listen, though.

Thais will never change just because foreigners think they need to.

Just look at the flood disasters in 2012 and several big floods before that.

Thais invited Dutch and Belgian engineers to help them, as they are the only one who have the proper equipment as well as the needed know how to solve their water management problems.

The Thai government never listened nor acted on their advice, hence we will see severe floods again soon.

Unless unemployment falls to say 10 or 15%, land prices take a nose dive and a bank or two collapses, nothing major will happen or change, ever.

Edited October 29, 2014 by luckyman

[tbthailand]

The real problem, other than the complete and total absence of leadership, is that there is no real rule of law in Thailand. Money is the ONLY thing that talks in Thailand and even the police and judiciary are involved. Koh Tao may be the final nail (one hopes).

The entire RTP and judiciary MUST be reformed from the top to bottom, complete with arrests and imprisonment for some of the worst offenders, especially high ranking officials who oversee all the corruption. Until that happens, nothing will change here and Thailand will continue the downward spiral.

don't forget to add the RTA to your list

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

"When you say "Thailand" to anyone overseas, whether tourist or investor, the immediate reaction is usually positive."

The reaction I encounter is 'hookers, kiddy fiddlers and drugs'

Don't know who "The Nation" is asking, not anyone I've ever met.

[BadBouy]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Say "Thailand" to the average person in the street in the West and the words "cheap sex" and "ping-pong balls" are usually what is thought of first.

Absolutly true!

All Mr. Basar is writing about, are the feelings that deep down, most people are thinking the same way about Thailand at the moment.

Interesting quote of his about the state being unable / unwilling to enforce the basic rule of law and order.

Without law and order, a country ( however they are ) cannot hope to achieve much in the way of respect around the globe.

Most people outside of Thailand either think (see quote above), never heard of it, or do not know where it is.

[JAG]

It would not be a huge surprise to see the Shins back in power, or at least backing those that get in to power in the not too distant future.

Off you go!

On your bike mate---never another chance---They blew it big time. hurting is it ???

Works every time doesn't it!

[MaiChai]

Came into Bangkok airport this morning . Never seen it so quiet.

[fab4]

Mr. Hasan Basar makes some useful points. He seems sane. He leaves out so many other considerations that have contributed to the breakdown of Thailand's "reputation." But he's on the right track by pointing out the lack of leadership in Thailand and that this is the key. There are no "leaders," no decision makers, no visionary, inspired, passionate people. No Thais have compassion and empathy for the welfare of "all" the Thai people. Leadership requires a visionary who can articulate the Thai nation to the world and why the world should welcome Thailand. Thaksin for all his faults was in fact a leader. There must surely be another leader somewhere in Thailand.

Thaksin may have been a leader, but purely for his own gains. He led his classmates, as he placed them all into strategic positions of untouchable dominance... aside of that, and for self-gain, I don't much more leadership in other areas of the role Thaksin played.

He led his classmates, as he placed them all into strategic positions of untouchable dominance

I take it you have heard of Burapha Phayak, the Eastern Tigers?

[tonbridgebrit]

"Thailand's sliding reputation is costing much more than just tourism dollars"

Yes, the Nation, you've got it right on this occasion.

[MAJIC]

Mr. Hasan Basar makes some useful points. He seems sane. He leaves out so many other considerations that have contributed to the breakdown of Thailand's "reputation." But he's on the right track by pointing out the lack of leadership in Thailand and that this is the key. There are no "leaders," no decision makers, no visionary, inspired, passionate people. No Thais have compassion and empathy for the welfare of "all" the Thai people. Leadership requires a visionary who can articulate the Thai nation to the world and why the world should welcome Thailand. Thaksin for all his faults was in fact a leader. There must surely be another leader somewhere in Thailand.

I agree, Thaksin was a leader - and not too far distant from the style of Hitler. He filled the top-jobs with his incompetent lackey bully-boys and operated on a do-as-I-say-or-be-destroyed basis. The difference is that Hitler thought he was doing it for his country whereas Thaksin's only 'vision' was personal greed and power.

It's a Fallacy Thaksin was not a leader of the people,merely a seeker of wealth,that made him personally Richer,anything gained by the poor was purely incidental,in his pursuit of his own wealth, i.e sale of the Shin Corporation to Singapore,netted him Billions of Bahts,of which he passed a law to say a sitting PM need not pay tax of 40% on personal deals, a major Thai Asset sucked in by the Shins! and that law was passed 3 weeks before the sale to Singapore! it was in fact one of the factors that brought about his downfall! Thaksin was never doing anything for the people or Thailand! And neither was Hitler,doing it for his Country either! Megalomaniacs and Raving Mad Dictators don't work for their Country or People!

Try Godwins Law!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Edited October 29, 2014 by MAJIC

[englishoak]

It would not be a huge surprise to see the Shins back in power, or at least backing those that get in to power in the not too distant future.

Off you go!

On your bike mate---never another chance---They blew it big time. hurting is it ???

I knew 100% it would be you.

I am certainly not your mate and neither you nor I know what the future may hold but there is no reason not to speculate.

Quote " mate is an expression" not necessarily friend / pal. But never mind if you just only want to confront posters that are going along with the PM.

Now the enormous task for him to deal with RICE, as if he hasn't enough on his plate sorting out the mess.

spare us the sob story

[SteveFong]

Mr. Hasan Basar makes some useful points. He seems sane. He leaves out so many other considerations that have contributed to the breakdown of Thailand's "reputation." But he's on the right track by pointing out the lack of leadership in Thailand and that this is the key. There are no "leaders," no decision makers, no visionary, inspired, passionate people. No Thais have compassion and empathy for the welfare of "all" the Thai people. Leadership requires a visionary who can articulate the Thai nation to the world and why the world should welcome Thailand. Thaksin for all his faults was in fact a leader. There must surely be another leader somewhere in Thailand.

I agree, Thaksin was a leader - and not too far distant from the style of Hitler. He filled the top-jobs with his incompetent lackey bully-boys and operated on a do-as-I-say-or-be-destroyed basis. The difference is that Hitler thought he was doing it for his country whereas Thaksin's only 'vision' was personal greed and power.

It's a Fallacy Thaksin was not a leader of the people,merely a seeker of wealth,that made him personally Richer,anything gained by the poor was purely incidental,in his pursuit of his own wealth, i.e sale of the Shin Corporation to Singapore,netted him Billions of Bahts,of which he passed a law to say a sitting PM need not pay tax of 40% on personal deals, a major Thai Asset sucked in by the Shins! and that law was passed 3 weeks before the sale to Singapore! it was in fact one of the factors that brought about his downfall! Thaksin was never doing anything for the people or Thailand! And neither was Hitler,doing it for his Country either! Megalomaniacs and Raving Mad Dictators don't work for their Country or People!

Try Godwins Law!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

in the US,

all people who enter government, are permitted and in fact required to sell all assets they have which may be seen as a conflict of interest, as in say, Halliburton shares, or in the case of Henry Paulson, former Chairman of Goldman Sachs all holdings in companies you may have to preside in legislation over which allowed him to escape taxes on the same of over 1/2 billion in GS shares

Thaskin could have used other methods and just misread the future revolt

Did the country do better under him than at any other time?

It cannot be disputed he was very good for the country

[SantiSuk]

Been in the UK 4 weeks. People's reaction to discovering that I live in Thailand is universally of the order of 'wow that must be great' plus 'I really love Thailand'/'I really want to go to Thailand'. The murders or Thai politics have not featured.

Sorry to spoil your collective som nam nar Thailand party. I wish people were more discerning too!

[MAJIC]

Mr. Hasan Basar makes some useful points. He seems sane. He leaves out so many other considerations that have contributed to the breakdown of Thailand's "reputation." But he's on the right track by pointing out the lack of leadership in Thailand and that this is the key. There are no "leaders," no decision makers, no visionary, inspired, passionate people. No Thais have compassion and empathy for the welfare of "all" the Thai people. Leadership requires a visionary who can articulate the Thai nation to the world and why the world should welcome Thailand. Thaksin for all his faults was in fact a leader. There must surely be another leader somewhere in Thailand.

I agree, Thaksin was a leader - and not too far distant from the style of Hitler. He filled the top-jobs with his incompetent lackey bully-boys and operated on a do-as-I-say-or-be-destroyed basis. The difference is that Hitler thought he was doing it for his country whereas Thaksin's only 'vision' was personal greed and power.

It's a Fallacy Thaksin was not a leader of the people,merely a seeker of wealth,that made him personally Richer,anything gained by the poor was purely incidental,in his pursuit of his own wealth, i.e sale of the Shin Corporation to Singapore,netted him Billions of Bahts,of which he passed a law to say a sitting PM need not pay tax of 40% on personal deals, a major Thai Asset sucked in by the Shins! and that law was passed 3 weeks before the sale to Singapore! it was in fact one of the factors that brought about his downfall! Thaksin was never doing anything for the people or Thailand! And neither was Hitler,doing it for his Country either! Megalomaniacs and Raving Mad Dictators don't work for their Country or People!

Try Godwins Law!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

in the US,

all people who enter government, are permitted and in fact required to sell all assets they have which may be seen as a conflict of interest, as in say, Halliburton shares, or in the case of Henry Paulson, former Chairman of Goldman Sachs all holdings in companies you may have to preside in legislation over which allowed him to escape taxes on the same of over 1/2 billion in GS shares

Thaskin could have used other methods and just misread the future revolt

Did the country do better under him than at any other time?

It cannot be disputed he was very good for the country

It does matter what method of Tax avoidence they use,tax avoiders are crooks! No! the Country didn't do better under Thaksin.The Country got drained by Thaksin's mob! the best he did was throw out a few crumbs, now and again around re- election times.Big deal eh!

Sorry! Everthing you say is definately heavily disputed!

Excuses and apologists come at a premium rate,someone has to pay the checkbin,and you know very well it's not Thaksin! it's the people!

And I have seen many Thai Village housing that have been upgraded, Not by Thaksin,but mostly by "Farangs" If there is a God up there,then please don't send Thailand another Thaksin.

[retsdon]

Came into Bangkok airport this morning . Never seen it so quiet.

I came in last month, it was the same. At immigration it was a question of choosing the minuscule queue. Stand behind the two Indian looking folk or go with the four westerners. That snake queue between the ropes was empty - the first time I've ever seen it like that. The Thai line - which I normally piggy-back on when I come through with the missus and kids to jump the line. -was way longer.

[srchino]

The real problem for Thailand lies not in the fact that tourists die on Thai soil - they die in other countries, too - but in how we address those incidents. The flip-flopping on the Koh Tao murders - confessions and retractions, authorities reaching out for international help then rejecting international help, and the inability to solve a crime committed in a tiny community - raises serious doubts about the capacity of the state to carry out one its most basic duties: enforcing law and order.

[size=6- raises serious doubts about the capacity of the state to carry out one its most basic duties: enforcing law and order.

A good start would be determining the conclusion of a murder investigation AFTER the investigation is conducted as opposed to beforehand. That ostensibly small detail in process would amount to a big bump in public confidence, imho. Edited October 31, 2014 by srchino

[namdocmai]

Last week when i entered Thailand and was at the customs there was a blond lady at the counter next to mine. She wanted to get her suitcase from the belt and check it in for her next flight as she said. She was flying to Nairobi in Africa.

The custom refused to let her pass. When the lady walked back he was laughing loudly and explained to me he couldn't let her through for some reason.

I still don't understand why or what was happening there but the officer had big fun because of that.

Sure that lady will never come back to thailand because she probably lost her luggage.

[luckyman]

Say "Thailand" to the average person in the street in the West and the words "cheap sex" and "ping-pong balls" are usually what is thought of first.

Not sure the "ping-pong balls" portion applies anymore.

I believe ping pong balls are back in favour. Must have to do with Mrs. Ratchanok winning a world title in women's table tennis perhaps?

Bananas then.

[scorecard]

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Thailand will collapse from within. Thai people as a whole are a good culture and people, however just like any other country it will not fall apart from outside opinions, but from within. Outside influences only care about how cheap it can be to do business in Thailand, they care nothing really about internal affairs, well maybe except the US. But they just doing this for show. Maybe it would be great just for everyone to take care of their own problems, and let individual countries manage their own problems.

Overall I agree.

IMHO opinion there's another point;

- Singapore is now a first world country and has been for a long time, excellent education ranking perhaps 2 or 3 in the whole world, impressive health services used a role model by other so called developed countries, zero foreign debt and more.

- Malaysia - well developed, lots of positives.

- China - still lots of problems but making gains quickly - folks executed for corruption and more.

- Vietnam and Indonesia - both countries still have bit problems (incl. corruption) but making big gains. Vietnam especially in terms of education. Vietnam keen to learn from Singapore in many areas. Serious punishment for corruption by state officials, etc. Indonesia a bit slower but also gains in education, gains in finding and many senior officials punished for corruption.

- Myanmar: attracting foreign investment,- has the foundations of excellent education, some folks saying education is coming back fast. Already many well educated engineers etc. Quickly developing their tourist industry and there many interesting things to see in regard to temples and more and many beautiful beaches.

The point - I suggest the day will come when very large numbers of Thai people will start to realize 'what happened, our neighbors all have a good quality. How come we still have one third of the population in poverty and a large sector of the so called middle class who are only just above survival'.

When this happens (following world history) I believe the public will get very active and seriously demand change.