Thailand's sliding reputation is costing much more than just tourism dollars

[Thailand]

It would not be a huge surprise to see the Shins back in power, or at least backing those that get in to power in the not too distant future.

Off you go!

On your bike mate---never another chance---They blew it big time. hurting is it ???

I knew 100% it would be you.

I am certainly not your mate and neither you nor I know what the future may hold but there is no reason not to speculate.

[WhizBang]

The real problem, other than the complete and total absence of leadership, is that there is no real rule of law in Thailand. Money is the ONLY thing that talks in Thailand and even the police and judiciary are involved. Koh Tao may be the final nail (one hopes).

The entire RTP and judiciary MUST be reformed from the top to bottom, complete with arrests and imprisonment for some of the worst offenders, especially high ranking officials who oversee all the corruption. Until that happens, nothing will change here and Thailand will continue the downward spiral.

[jpeg]

Here's some news for you farang pseudo reds and pseudo yellows.

Both political parties are corrupt, inept and chock full of people out to enrich themselves, their families and cronies.

As foreigners with no vote, to champion one over the other makes you look foolish.

Please look foolish on another thread and don't pollute this one.

So no opinions allowed then?

Go for it, but, on the zillion threads that already exist for the verbal punch-ups between farang reds and yellows.

This thread is not about Thaksin and whether he is good or, bad.

I have an opinion on the main reasons why the Roman empire fell, but, I'm not going to post it here as this thread is not the right place.

See where I'm coming from?

I do believe most posters are capable of more than the binary choices of red or yellow. It's only the very vocal minority constantly touting Taksin, the junta? (yellow), these days, not so much.

[WhizBang]

Say "Thailand" to the average person in the street in the West and the words "cheap sex" and "ping-pong balls" are usually what is thought of first.

Not sure the "ping-pong balls" portion applies anymore.

Bananas then.

[MrJohnson]

Unlikely as it may sound to Prayut at the present time, it is individual, apparently isolated incidents like these .......

Now that is PR spin if ever I heard it ..... down playing and dismissive.

The truth Mr Hassan is that the rule of law starts at the top with successful prosecution of high profile cases in corruption and evasion of other crimes by the "elite" as well as migrant workers or otherwise. The rule of law needs to be applied to every-one.

This is not PR excercise, this is an application of a system that exists that is all too often abused.

less spin doctoring and more jail time for offenders in high profile instead of walking free with a slap on the wrist.

look at Singapore.......every-one knows the consequences no matter of status.

You make some very good points. Actually I just spent a week in Singapore recently and what a refreshhing change it was from Bangkok - for a short time at least. Let's not kid ourselves that things are perfect there. It is essentially a one-party state. The one fundamental difference though is the respect for the rule of law. There is however strong respect for the rule of law but that didn't happen overnight. During the rule of Lee Kwan Yew there was very strict law enforcement that appears to have now permeated many parts of society although there is still corruption. The problem here in Thailand is an almost complete lack of respect for the rule of law, I believe, because of very poor law enforcement. There is one law for the rich and powerful and one law for the rest. The police are corrupt and the judiciary is, if not corrupt, prone to influence from the executive. Clear lines need to exist between the judiciary and the executive. All of these things will take a monumental effort to change but the first step is in recognizing the problem. I think that is what is currently happening. The combination of an international spotlight and more open discussion amongst ordinary Thais may pave the way but it will be a long and painful process.

I'd like to think it can happen but I am idealist.

[weka]

Thailand:

a country of really good people governed and represented by total a$$holes

[godden]

Thailand, hero to zero

[wabothai]

Great article mr. PR. i hope the white suits are listening.

[richard10365]

Since this is an opinionated story, I thought I would give my opinion too.

I think every country has it's fair share of problems. Look at the USA. OMG! What a violent country that is. Shootings in schools, drugs being legalized, gangs, rapes, crime, riots, free for all media and the glorification of the American warrior and that way of life are some of my concerns for the "leader of the free world." Its not the country I grew up in or spent 20 years defending. I don't even want to get into what I think of the American democratic process or how public opinion is controlled by the media such as Fox News and CNN. American's do love this type of society. If they didn't, they would change. They thrive on it so much they want the rest of the world to be just like them.

So Mr. Hasan Basar, be careful what you wish for because you may not like what you get. Remember, no country is perfect and they all have to find their own way.

[ginjag]

It would not be a huge surprise to see the Shins back in power, or at least backing those that get in to power in the not too distant future.

Off you go!

On your bike mate---never another chance---They blew it big time. hurting is it ???

I knew 100% it would be you.

I am certainly not your mate and neither you nor I know what the future may hold but there is no reason not to speculate.

Speculate ???/ sublime to the ridiculous.

[ginjag]

It would not be a huge surprise to see the Shins back in power, or at least backing those that get in to power in the not too distant future.

Off you go!

On your bike mate---never another chance---They blew it big time. hurting is it ???

I knew 100% it would be you.

I am certainly not your mate and neither you nor I know what the future may hold but there is no reason not to speculate.

Quote " mate is an expression" not necessarily friend / pal. But never mind if you just only want to confront posters that are going along with the PM.

Now the enormous task for him to deal with RICE, as if he hasn't enough on his plate sorting out the mess.

[Andrew65]

One of the major issues at play here in Thailand, is that of face - those in public office parading in front of fellow Thais, and flaunting their power thinking they have everything under control. It is utterly ludicrous that this country has had 19 coups, and the current leadership has made such glaring and embarrassing errors over the last few weeks.

The dumbfounding and illogical ideas that are dreamed up, such as electronic tagging for tourists, banning of "beach parties" and other such irrelevant notions, only compounds the perception that this country is run by monkeys or clowns.

The deeply troubling and saddening factor is that of power and money crazed people holding office. They have fallen into one of the most deadly traps for humanity - that of greed. Power corrupts and money corrupts if one doesn't use either wisely and for the greater good.

I am always at a loss to understand this amassing of personal wealth, when none of us know when our time might be up.

Imagine being given the enormous honour and privilege of holding a position of power, an opportunity to actually make a change in your country and affect the lives of millions, but all the while your attention is fixed on how you can feather your own nest.

Without sounding like a harbinger of certain doom, I find it very challenging to believe that Thailand is able to pull itself out of the mire it is currently in.

The fact that there has been so much scorn and rejection of international help and advice on current issues, leads me to concur that the arrogance of those in power in this country is really out of control.

Forget "Thai Culture" and ""tradition" etc - if this country wants to benefit from what the international community brings, ie - tourism, and international trade and commerce, the very least it can do is to respect the international community by cleaning up their act and taking stringent measures to rectify the huge errors and blunders that have been made.

IT seems like we are on a downward trajectory and a huge amount is going to depend on this current murder case.

There is a glimmer of light here - Thailand can grasp it - take the opportunity to get at least one thing right.

But - I'm not holding my breath.

Are you?

" an opportunity to actually make a change in your country and affect the lives of millions, but all the while your attention is fixed on how you can feather your own nest."

Sounds very much like the UK!!

[Tony125]

I personally think that tourism and investors to Thailand is going to be down for a long time. When the front page of overseas papers are talking about martial law, curfews, coups, and comments from Thai leaders saying things like "shouldn't wear bikini on beach unless not pretty" or we will have all tourist wear ankle monitors (as if they were fellons) they think it looks like a country being run by children and inebtly. Does'nt provide confidence for safety or investing. Add to that the KoaTao murders (and not letting internation outside help) Japanese husband murdered (by scaming Thai wife) mulit boat accidents , jet ski scams and all the hassels earlier with visas and inconsistant enforcment and application of regs at different border crossings/consulates that lead to many leaving (and telling their friends back home) does not make thailand look like a nice place to visit.

[SteveFong]

Amazing that the writer believes the initial reaction is positive,

That is 100% backwards

only the "men" agree there are "some" positives

I mentioned it today to people and they both said the same things,

what about the ladyboys?

it is pretty much what many think, even if you don't think so

[Balance]

Mr. Hasan Basar makes some useful points. He seems sane. He leaves out so many other considerations that have contributed to the breakdown of Thailand's "reputation." But he's on the right track by pointing out the lack of leadership in Thailand and that this is the key. There are no "leaders," no decision makers, no visionary, inspired, passionate people. No Thais have compassion and empathy for the welfare of "all" the Thai people. Leadership requires a visionary who can articulate the Thai nation to the world and why the world should welcome Thailand. Thaksin for all his faults was in fact a leader. There must surely be another leader somewhere in Thailand.

Thaksin may have been a leader, but purely for his own gains. He led his classmates, as he placed them all into strategic positions of untouchable dominance... aside of that, and for self-gain, I don't much more leadership in other areas of the role Thaksin played.

The evidence is clear that it was NOT purely for his own gains. Access to health care; support for SME's in rural areas; development of transportation infrastructure in Issan and other outlying areas; A misguided and horribly managed attempt to help small farmers, to name a few. Yes, he was at the public trough also, but he made promises to the rural poor and performed on many of them.

[EnglishJohn]

Mr. Hasan Basar makes some useful points. He seems sane. He leaves out so many other considerations that have contributed to the breakdown of Thailand's "reputation." But he's on the right track by pointing out the lack of leadership in Thailand and that this is the key. There are no "leaders," no decision makers, no visionary, inspired, passionate people. No Thais have compassion and empathy for the welfare of "all" the Thai people. Leadership requires a visionary who can articulate the Thai nation to the world and why the world should welcome Thailand. Thaksin for all his faults was in fact a leader. There must surely be another leader somewhere in Thailand.

I agree, Thaksin was a leader - and not too far distant from the style of Hitler. He filled the top-jobs with his incompetent lackey bully-boys and operated on a do-as-I-say-or-be-destroyed basis. The difference is that Hitler thought he was doing it for his country whereas Thaksin's only 'vision' was personal greed and power.

[gemini81]

Mr. Hasan Basar makes some useful points. He seems sane. He leaves out so many other considerations that have contributed to the breakdown of Thailand's "reputation." But he's on the right track by pointing out the lack of leadership in Thailand and that this is the key. There are no "leaders," no decision makers, no visionary, inspired, passionate people. No Thais have compassion and empathy for the welfare of "all" the Thai people. Leadership requires a visionary who can articulate the Thai nation to the world and why the world should welcome Thailand. Thaksin for all his faults was in fact a leader. There must surely be another leader somewhere in Thailand.

Thaksin may have been a leader, but purely for his own gains. He led his classmates, as he placed them all into strategic positions of untouchable dominance... aside of that, and for self-gain, I don't much more leadership in other areas of the role Thaksin played.

At least it has a good reputation for being the place to enjoy all the forbidden fruit we love!!!!!

Edited October 29, 2014 by gemini81

[Toknarok]

Mr. Hasan Basar makes some useful points. He seems sane. He leaves out so many other considerations that have contributed to the breakdown of Thailand's "reputation." But he's on the right track by pointing out the lack of leadership in Thailand and that this is the key. There are no "leaders," no decision makers, no visionary, inspired, passionate people. No Thais have compassion and empathy for the welfare of "all" the Thai people. Leadership requires a visionary who can articulate the Thai nation to the world and why the world should welcome Thailand. Thaksin for all his faults was in fact a leader. There must surely be another leader somewhere in Thailand.

I agree, Thaksin was a leader - and not too far distant from the style of Hitler. He filled the top-jobs with his incompetent lackey bully-boys and operated on a do-as-I-say-or-be-destroyed basis. The difference is that Hitler thought he was doing it for his country whereas Thaksin's only 'vision' was personal greed and power.

And just who are the people assisting our 'Dear Leader' at present? Ex Army incompetent lackey bully-boys (or their wives).

[ginjag]

Mr. Hasan Basar makes some useful points. He seems sane. He leaves out so many other considerations that have contributed to the breakdown of Thailand's "reputation." But he's on the right track by pointing out the lack of leadership in Thailand and that this is the key. There are no "leaders," no decision makers, no visionary, inspired, passionate people. No Thais have compassion and empathy for the welfare of "all" the Thai people. Leadership requires a visionary who can articulate the Thai nation to the world and why the world should welcome Thailand. Thaksin for all his faults was in fact a leader. There must surely be another leader somewhere in Thailand.

Thaksin may have been a leader, but purely for his own gains. He led his classmates, as he placed them all into strategic positions of untouchable dominance... aside of that, and for self-gain, I don't much more leadership in other areas of the role Thaksin played.

At least it has a good reputation for being the place to enjoy all the forbidden fruit we love!!!!!

Plenty of sand and sun, He is not a happy man with his billions---HE WANTS MORE, it's his style no matter who he treads on or cons.

[Fred Flinstone]

My wife recently denied ever going there a year back to a friend she was having coffee with.

She didn't deny ever going there just recently (2013 )

Instead , she highlighted the Japan holiday and mentioned Thailand isn't on our list anymore .

Her rationale is the press is so bad along with the country leaders (who are really just military Junta ) , that its really type of shameful .

I really think its been coming for a while .

The protests that were seen on Bangkok streets attacks on police .

The judicial coups - military ones.

Dismissing a leader voted in by the people.

Whatever your politics most people cringe at military running countries when selecting a holiday destination.

The insurance companies don't like insuring you.

The murders and crime - cover ups etc.

Comments about bikinis -

Thailand is on its natural path downwards and in the long run it might be helpful.

Those same protesters blocking up Bangkok road might be harder to con next time. (into these marches)

Democracy might be cherished in future no matter who wins - so long as they are fair and people all get a vote.

But for now its kinder to abandon Thailand if you want to help it reform.

[ginjag]

My wife recently denied ever going there a year back to a friend she was having coffee with.

She didn't deny ever going there just recently (2013 )

Instead , she highlighted the Japan holiday and mentioned Thailand isn't on our list anymore .

Her rationale is the press is so bad along with the country leaders (who are really just military Junta ) , that its really type of shameful .

I really think its been coming for a while .

The protests that were seen on Bangkok streets attacks on police .

The judicial coups - military ones.

Dismissing a leader voted in by the people.

Whatever your politics most people cringe at military running countries when selecting a holiday destination.

The insurance companies don't like insuring you.

The murders and crime - cover ups etc.

Comments about bikinis -

Thailand is on its natural path downwards and in the long run it might be helpful.

Those same protesters blocking up Bangkok road might be harder to con next time. (into these marches)

Democracy might be cherished in future no matter who wins - so long as they are fair and people all get a vote.

But for now its kinder to abandon Thailand if you want to help it reform.

You sound like Wilma not Fred.

[jaywalker]

Since this is an opinionated story, I thought I would give my opinion too.

I think every country has it's fair share of problems. Look at the USA. OMG! What a violent country that is. Shootings in schools, drugs being legalized, gangs, rapes, crime, riots, free for all media and the glorification of the American warrior and that way of life are some of my concerns for the "leader of the free world." Its not the country I grew up in or spent 20 years defending. I don't even want to get into what I think of the American democratic process or how public opinion is controlled by the media such as Fox News and CNN. American's do love this type of society. If they didn't, they would change. They thrive on it so much they want the rest of the world to be just like them.

So Mr. Hasan Basar, be careful what you wish for because you may not like what you get. Remember, no country is perfect and they all have to find their own way.

While I agree with what you say about the USA (Untied States of Aremia.....Did my 20 in the Army too), Mr. Basar does make some valid points.

Basic law enforcement is almost non-existent in Thailand if some thug has 50,000 baht to bribe himself out of a petty crime. No matter that that 50K is profits from crime.

The Thai cops just want to line their pockets.

I shudder at the thought of trying to bribe a cop on the street in the USA or UK or Australia.

In Thailand, it's part of everyday life and is not only accepted, it is EXPECTED.

I really have no solutions to offer, other than a better education system and a few more generations that get to take advantage of it.

I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime.

[Thai at Heart]

When you say "Thailand" to anyone overseas, whether tourist or investor, the immediate reaction is usually positive.

Usually? I think that depends which questions you ask

[Commerce]

My wife recently denied ever going there a year back to a friend she was having coffee with.

She didn't deny ever going there just recently (2013 )

Instead , she highlighted the Japan holiday and mentioned Thailand isn't on our list anymore .

Her rationale is the press is so bad along with the country leaders (who are really just military Junta ) , that its really type of shameful .

I really think its been coming for a while .

The protests that were seen on Bangkok streets attacks on police .

The judicial coups - military ones.

Dismissing a leader voted in by the people.

Whatever your politics most people cringe at military running countries when selecting a holiday destination.

The insurance companies don't like insuring you.

The murders and crime - cover ups etc.

Comments about bikinis -

Thailand is on its natural path downwards and in the long run it might be helpful.

Those same protesters blocking up Bangkok road might be harder to con next time. (into these marches)

Democracy might be cherished in future no matter who wins - so long as they are fair and people all get a vote.

But for now its kinder to abandon Thailand if you want to help it reform.

Not far off a four quintet or a stanza, but actually a very close couplet.

Nice poem; you should publish it; but pls, make it rhyme first.

[scorecard]

It's true that overall there is a lack of respect for the law, in fact many folks including many police, have little knowledge of the law, and educated, rich, and powerful folks have no hesitation to use their influence and/or money and violence to subvert application of the law.

Millions in cash in a donot box openly & blatantly deposited with court officials just one small example and from a person who several people on this thread try to put up as a leader.

The good general didn't create this scenario but one hopes he and the new justice minister can over time make some changes.

It will be a bumpy road and it will take a long time, it needs massive education and there will be many who will try to throw every possible obstacle they can find in their path.

Murders of foreigners etc., has a very long history in this country and in every country in the world, and it didn't start from the date of the coup.

This so called PR guru is just stating what is obvious and has been for a long time.

[orientalsf]

Thailand will collapse from within. Thai people as a whole are a good culture and people, however just like any other country it will not fall apart from outside opinions, but from within. Outside influences only care about how cheap it can be to do business in Thailand, they care nothing really about internal affairs, well maybe except the US. But they just doing this for show. Maybe it would be great just for everyone to take care of their own problems, and let individual countries manage their own problems.

[iReason]

"the inability to solve a crime committed in a tiny community,

raises serious doubts about the capacity of the state to carry out one its most basic duties: enforcing law and order."

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand will collapse from within. Thai people as a whole are a good culture and people, however just like any other country it will not fall apart from outside opinions, but from within. Outside influences only care about how cheap it can be to do business in Thailand, they care nothing really about internal affairs, well maybe except the US. But they just doing this for show. Maybe it would be great just for everyone to take care of their own problems, and let individual countries manage their own problems.

The people are fine.

Actually I think the culture is pulling itself to pieces. The good values of the culture have been squished by bad. Many of the supposedly good aspects are pretty questionable anyway.

Strict class separation, corruption, permissiveness, instant gratification, buying karma.

It will get worse before it gets better. Just think back to that story about chalerms son killing a copper in front of a whole nightclub. No one could stop the cover up.

Now it escalates to a dodgy murder of a foreigner every week or so. That doesn't count what the Thais do to the Thais. The rose tinted idea of what Thai culture is, died quite a while ago.

[Number 3]

Since the horrendous Koh Tao murders, we have had a Japanese man murdered and dismembered, another committing suicide by jumping off a building, two Koreans drowned in a boating accident, and a Briton killed under anaesthesia in a clinic - and all in a period of weeks.

It isn't like these horrific crimes are just starting to happen here or getting worse. The difference is that the world has reached it limit and people are no longer saying "oh it's just a few hundred murders of people I don't know each year, it's only 70 people dying on the roads every day, it's only a massive street riot every year, the beaches are very nice and it's very cheap so I still love it". Now every indiscretion, especially against Brits, is being put into the UK headlines and people are starting to see the real, dirty side of Thailand.

The fact is that nobody else can be blamed for any of this. It's not like there was a foreign establishment responsible for the riots, or the coup, or the murders, or the lack of safety here, or the worst road fatalities in the world, or the many other failings of this country. It is all the responsibility of the Thais alone and they will never admit it or face up to it so it is never going to get any better.

Thailand is a beautiful country but greed and corruption by everyone has ruined it for themselves. Thailand doesn't deserve anything it has but it deserves everything it gets.

We had a mans body wash up on samet a Russian woman's body turn up on Phuket beach

Two headless bodies found on a yacht in Pattaya deemed suicide.

A tourist from Belgium fell off a ferry on his way to Koh tao and died. Newly engaged but deemed suicide.

A woman raped in Phuket by motorcycle taxi chap a Spanish visitor raped on her first night at kho San in Bangkok by a taxi driver.

There was the bashing of the aissue kid by the two wealthy Chinese in green mango Samui. A British nationals unexplained death - Neil or nick Pearson - on New Year's Day on Koh Tao. He was holidaying with his parents.

Come on lads I'm sure there's more I have left out here

This guy being interview, he pulled out less than a third of the actual crimes I would speculate.

[klaus303]

Say "Thailand" to the average person in the street in the West and the words "cheap sex" and "ping-pong balls" are usually what is thought of first.

This is exactly how Thailand is perceived in the main stream western world. I can not count the number of times i have met this prejudiced opinion. But perception is reality - so Thailand can not run away from this opinion, unless they change things seriously.

Us who live there know its far from the whole truth about a problematic country - compared to the immense corruption and lack of law enforcement which is the major culprits of this country.

Edited October 29, 2014 by klaus303