Sweden recognises Palestinian state

[webfact]

Sweden recognises Palestinian state: foreign minister

STOCKHOLM (AFP) - Sweden on Thursday officially recognised the state of Palestine, Stockholm's foreign minister said, less than a month after the government announced its intention to make the controversial move.

"Today the government takes the decision to recognise the state of Palestine," Foreign Minister Margot Wallstrom said in a statement published in the Dagens Nyheter daily.

"It is an important step that confirms the Palestinians' right to self-determination."


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-10-30

[JensKjerSommer]

Raving mad nonsense IMHO, a sad day

[bigjules007]

Excellent news!, just need the rest of the world to follow Swedens example.

[Ulysses G.]

Next they will be recognizing Santa Claus as a real person.

[waynethor]

Excellent news!, just need the rest of the world to follow Swedens example.

Yes, and offer the same type of support that the US gives its nasty neighbor.

[Pakboong]

As much as I would like to say otherwise, these people are not ready to govern themselves.

[Jingthing]

When will the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state?

Not sure how many people know this, but anti-semitic incidents are way up all over Scandinavia.

I guess there is no political price for the leaders there to pay to diss Israel in this way.

[arjunadawn]

Swedistan's position on this matter is hardly a surprise.

[bigjules007]

When will the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state?

Not sure how many people know this, but anti-semitic incidents are way up all over Scandinavia.

I guess there is no political price for the leaders there to pay to diss Israel in this way.

Why would Palestinians recognise Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State? ?.

At no point has Israel acknowledged or been asked to acknowledge by the U.S., a Palestinian state’s right to exist. In fact, the U.S. and Israel have thrown international hissy fits at any prospect of Palestinian statehood that does not materialize with their direct blessing.

In 2011 the U.S. withdrew funding from UNESCO because the organization overwhelmingly voted to grant membership to Palestine. The vote was 107 to 14 in favor, with 52 abstentions.

Seemingly not without a sense of humor, the U.S. criticized the vote as a “unilateral” Palestinian attempt to achieve statehood.So not only have the U.S. and Israel not recognized the right of Palestine to exist, but both refuse to acknowledge that Palestine even exists as a state currently, even though by and large it already possesses the characteristics of what could be called a state, including clearly defined territory and control of the principle means of force within it.

Therefore, even if we grant the existence of a “right to exist” in IR, the U.S. and Israel appear staggeringly unconcerned about reciprocating the very act they’re demanding from yhe Palestinians.

[Jingthing]

That was totally disingenuous. The issue Israel clearly has is about Palestinian demands for right of return into Israel (if granted, Israel would be over), the anti-semitic genocidal charter of Hamas (the most popular ruling party by far in both Gaza and West Bank), the actual final borders of a proposed Palestinian state, and meeting the security concerns of Israel given the hostility of Palestinians towards Jewish Israel's very EXISTENCE. Arabs and Muslims have so many countries where they are the majority (and could have EASILY absorbed the vast majority of so called Palestinian refugees, but didn't (you don't have to be an Einstein to understand why). Jews only the one TINY one, But that is clearly too much for the Arabs in the Palestine region, and seemingly too much for anti-semitic Sweden.

Translation -- two states living in peace are only possible with direct negotiations between Israel and the leaders of the Arabs in the Palestinian region.

No, I'm not saying the blame for that not happening is only on the one side. It is on BOTH sides, but that's another story.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Jingthing

[Pakboong]

When will the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state?

Not sure how many people know this, but anti-semitic incidents are way up all over Scandinavia.

I guess there is no political price for the leaders there to pay to diss Israel in this way.

Pretty much says it all.

[off road pat]

When will the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state?

Not sure how many people know this, but anti-semitic incidents are way up all over Scandinavia.

I guess there is no political price for the leaders there to pay to diss Israel in this way.

Why would Palestinians recognise Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State? ?.

At no point has Israel acknowledged or been asked to acknowledge by the U.S., a Palestinian state’s right to exist. In fact, the U.S. and Israel have thrown international hissy fits at any prospect of Palestinian statehood that does not materialize with their direct blessing.

In 2011 the U.S. withdrew funding from UNESCO because the organization overwhelmingly voted to grant membership to Palestine. The vote was 107 to 14 in favor, with 52 abstentions.

Seemingly not without a sense of humor, the U.S. criticized the vote as a “unilateral” Palestinian attempt to achieve statehood.So not only have the U.S. and Israel not recognized the right of Palestine to exist, but both refuse to acknowledge that Palestine even exists as a state currently, even though by and large it already possesses the characteristics of what could be called a state, including clearly defined territory and control of the principle means of force within it.

Therefore, even if we grant the existence of a “right to exist” in IR, the U.S. and Israel appear staggeringly unconcerned about reciprocating the very act they’re demanding from yhe Palestinians.

So true, And I'm happy somebody in fact, knows what he's talking about. to the contrary of those that just align themselves blindly with the Israelis and the US.....

[arjunadawn]

That was totally disingenuous. The issue Israel clearly has is about Palestinian demands for right of return into Israel (if granted, Israel would be over), the anti-semitic genocidal charter of Hamas (the most popular ruling party by far in both Gaza and West Bank), the actual final borders of a proposed Palestinian state, and meeting the security concerns of Israel given the hostility of Palestinians towards Jewish Israel's very EXISTENCE. Arabs and Muslims have so many countries where they are the majority (and could have EASILY absorbed the vast majority of so called Palestinian refugees, but didn't (you don't have to be an Einstein to understand why). Jews only the one TINY one, But that is clearly too much for the Arabs in the Palestine region, and seemingly too much for anti-semitic Sweden.

Translation -- two states living in peace are only possible with direct negotiations between Israel and the leaders of the Arabs in the Palestinian region.

No, I'm not saying the blame for that not happening is only on the one side. It is on BOTH sides, but that's another story.

I dare say those who differ from your conclusion will see not your reasoning; I do. I think in this simple paragraph you capture the essence of the problem. Without doubt, the shortsighted effort to have a Palestinian State created in spite of Israel will have devastating consequences medium to long term. The desire to seek and establish a Palestinian State is both to create the State and to inflict this realtiy upon Israel, not as a neighbor but as an enemy who thwarted the Jews and obtained Statehood irrespective of the Jews. The international community and their narrow sighted agenda can bath in the false fruit that they have accomplished a long sought dream of creating a Palestinian State but all they will have done is facilitated war with much greater dangers than presently.

Without the core condition of Palestinians accepting the Jewish People's and State's right to exist simply waving a magic wand and creating a P State, which would then have Israel arguably within those borders, only serve to choose sides. There is no scenario where such actions do not increase the probability for war.

I have lately come to see, through some of the views on TV, that Israel is not entirely without fault in this intractable problem. However, I am keenly aware what many others may not grasp and that is fundementally, the Palestinian arabs want both the Israeli state and Jews wiped off the face of the earth. I dont infer this. It is not conjecture. It is not deductive. It is the core philosophy opposing Israel- anhilation. Perhaps... just perhaps in this light Israel's reluctance can be seen as self preservation.

[Pakboong]

That was totally disingenuous. The issue Israel clearly has is about Palestinian demands for right of return into Israel (if granted, Israel would be over), the anti-semitic genocidal charter of Hamas (the most popular ruling party by far in both Gaza and West Bank), the actual final borders of a proposed Palestinian state, and meeting the security concerns of Israel given the hostility of Palestinians towards Jewish Israel's very EXISTENCE. Arabs and Muslims have so many countries where they are the majority (and could have EASILY absorbed the vast majority of so called Palestinian refugees, but didn't (you don't have to be an Einstein to understand why). Jews only the one TINY one, But that is clearly too much for the Arabs in the Palestine region, and seemingly too much for anti-semitic Sweden.

Translation -- two states living in peace are only possible with direct negotiations between Israel and the leaders of the Arabs in the Palestinian region.

No, I'm not saying the blame for that not happening is only on the one side. It is on BOTH sides, but that's another story.

I dare say those who differ from your conclusion will see not your reasoning; I do. I think in this simple paragraph you capture the essence of the problem. Without doubt, the shortsighted effort to have a Palestinian State created in spite of Israel will have devastating consequences medium to long term. The desire to seek and establish a Palestinian State is both to create the State and to inflict this realtiy upon Israel, not as a neighbor but as an enemy who thwarted the Jews and obtained Statehood irrespective of the Jews. The international community and their narrow sighted agenda can bath in the false fruit that they have accomplished a long sought dream of creating a Palestinian State but all they will have done is facilitated war with much greater dangers than presently.

Without the core condition of Palestinians accepting the Jewish People's and State's right to exist simply waving a magic wand and creating a P State, which would then have Israel arguably within those borders, only serve to choose sides. There is no scenario where such actions do not increase the probability for war.

I have lately come to see, through some of the views on TV, that Israel is not entirely without fault in this intractable problem. However, I am keenly aware what many others may not grasp and that is fundementally, the Palestinian arabs want both the Israeli state and Jews wiped off the face of the earth. I dont infer this. It is not conjecture. It is not deductive. It is the core philosophy opposing Israel- anhilation. Perhaps... just perhaps in this light Israel's reluctance can be seen as self preservation.

I too see the wisdom in JT's first post indicated above. He however, spoiled it for me with the comment regarding the Swedes having no political price to pay for dissing Israel. To me, Israel is no more important that Botswana. The elevated self worth of the Israelis is clearly pointed out in JT's later post and will only serve IMO to help the fringe move closer to mainstream. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

[Jingthing]

...

Perhaps... just perhaps in this light Israel's reluctance can be seen as self preservation.

From thousands of years of history (no NOT just the holocaust, thousand of years) Jews have learned the lesson ... if people are saying they want to chase you away and/or kill you ... they MEAN it. See the radical Islamist Palestinian movement of Hamas today. See recent polls showing the majority of Palestinians are in favor of violence against Israel. Jewish people originally inspired by the (largely SECULAR) Zionist liberation movement have come home finally in the Jewish state of Israel, revived the Hebrew language from its slumber and made it live again, to the ancient land of the Jewish people, and to get rid of them, yes, you'll have to kill them. No, I don't think all Jews who support the existence of Israel should move to Israel but I support those who do. Especially right now, when the world really is unfairly ganging up on both Israel and global Jewry (antisemitism masked as anti-Zionism has increased massively), it is brave and admirable thing for a Jew to come home to Israel.

That said, again ANY narrative that doesn't assign blame to BOTH SIDES for lack of peaceful two state agreement between the two parties is not to be taken seriously. The Palestinian side has a narrative to tell as well and they do have legit grievances.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

...

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

I don't know ... I'm not running for political office in Israel. Just commenting on an internet forum.

[bigjules007]

...

Perhaps... just perhaps in this light Israel's reluctance can be seen as self preservation.

From thousands of years of history (no NOT just the holocaust, thousand of years) Jews have learned the lesson ... if people are saying they want to chase you away and/or kill you ... they MEAN it. See the radical Islamist Palestinian movement of Hamas today. See recent polls showing the majority of Palestinians are in favor of violence against Israel. Jewish people originally inspired by the (largely SECULAR) Zionist liberation movement have come home finally in the Jewish state of Israel, revived the Hebrew language from its slumber and made it live again, to the ancient land of the Jewish people, and to get rid of them, yes, you'll have to kill them. No, I don't think all Jews who support the existence of Israel should move to Israel but I support those who do. Especially right now, when the world really is unfairly ganging up on both Israel and global Jewry (antisemitism masked as anti-Zionism has increased massively), it is brave and admirable thing for a Jew to come home to Israel.

That said, again ANY narrative that doesn't assign blame to BOTH SIDES for lack of peaceful two state agreement between the two parties is not to be taken seriously. The Palestinian side has a narrative to tell as well and they do have legit grievances.

Well perhaps they should stop referring to themselves as "the chosen ones" and to the rest of the world as goyim, here only to serve them.

Before you start spouting,Anti Semite ( which incidently is the zionist defence mechanism every time somebody speaks against Israel) I've said it before and ill say it again, I am not an Anti Semite because the Palestinian people are truly semitic unlike the European Zionists who are not descendent from Shem, son of Noah. I am also not against Jewish people, I am against the Zionist state of Israel and there illegal occupation of Palestine.

[konying]

Here is some facts.

Gaza was given back years ago and nothing was built or developed economy wise.

Westbank was given to Abbas and the very same thing has happened.

Glad Sweden has recognized Balestine(since there is no letter P in Arabic), now they just need to start acting like a state.

Selling olives does not build economy.

PS. Who did Sweden regonize? Hamas or Fatah? because last time i checked it was 2 different governments running what suppose to be the same "state"

So even assuming Israel gives them everything they want, they will be fighting each other, such as fact of the region and its "natives",

[konying]

...

Perhaps... just perhaps in this light Israel's reluctance can be seen as self preservation.

From thousands of years of history (no NOT just the holocaust, thousand of years) Jews have learned the lesson ... if people are saying they want to chase you away and/or kill you ... they MEAN it. See the radical Islamist Palestinian movement of Hamas today. See recent polls showing the majority of Palestinians are in favor of violence against Israel. Jewish people originally inspired by the (largely SECULAR) Zionist liberation movement have come home finally in the Jewish state of Israel, revived the Hebrew language from its slumber and made it live again, to the ancient land of the Jewish people, and to get rid of them, yes, you'll have to kill them. No, I don't think all Jews who support the existence of Israel should move to Israel but I support those who do. Especially right now, when the world really is unfairly ganging up on both Israel and global Jewry (antisemitism masked as anti-Zionism has increased massively), it is brave and admirable thing for a Jew to come home to Israel.

That said, again ANY narrative that doesn't assign blame to BOTH SIDES for lack of peaceful two state agreement between the two parties is not to be taken seriously. The Palestinian side has a narrative to tell as well and they do have legit grievances.

Well perhaps they should stop referring to themselves as "the chosen ones" and to the rest of the world as goyim, here only to serve them.

Before you start spouting,Anti Semite ( which incidently is the zionist defence mechanism every time somebody speaks against Israel) I've said it before and ill say it again, I am not an Anti Semite because the Palestinian people are truly semitic unlike the European Zionists who are not descendent from Shem, son of Noah. I am also not against Jewish people, I am against the Zionist state of Israel and there illegal occupation of Palestine.

SO you prefer to be called an infidel and killed for it?

[bigjules007]

Now your spouting Anti Islam propaganda, not surprising considering your views on Israel.

[konying]

Now your spouting Anti Islam propaganda, not surprising considering your views on Israel.

1. You have no problem spouting anti semitic nonsense but bothered by what you consider to be anti islam?

2. Do tell me what is anti islam about my post?

3. Which part of truth do you deny? Are non arabs or non muslims not called infidels? who carries out attacks against non muslims across the world? who screams to kill "infidels" in the name of God?

[bigjules007]

You are confusing peace ful law abiding muslims, with fanatical Islamists, exactly the same way as most people confuse good law abiding jewish people with jewish zionists, two totally different kettles of fish.

And do not call me Anti Semitic its the last thing I am! !

[konying]

You are confusing peace ful law abiding muslims, with fanatical Islamists, exactly the same way as most people confuse good law abiding jewish people with jewish zionists, two totally different kettles of fish.

And do not call me Anti Semitic its the last thing I am! !

I do not see zionists attacking police in Europe or Sweden, nor do i see zionists holding violent demonstrations burning flags, bibles, and calling to kill

Now that we covered the basics, we can get back to OP.

[bigjules007]

Thats the fantastic job that western media has done to people like yourselves. They have demonised the muslims so that everyone believes they are all terrorists, and shallow minded masses are gullible enough to believe such propaganda.

There are organisations such as Hasbara who are responsible for this, it is a fact look them up if you dont believe me.

Edited October 30, 2014 by bigjules007

[bigjules007]

Really you do not see zionists holding violent demonstrations????

You are joking, look a little harder and you will see

[bigjules007]

Yes back to the OP I agree.

Well done Sweden for growing a pair and doing what is right! !

[arjunadawn]

...

Perhaps... just perhaps in this light Israel's reluctance can be seen as self preservation.

From thousands of years of history (no NOT just the holocaust, thousand of years) Jews have learned the lesson ... if people are saying they want to chase you away and/or kill you ... they MEAN it. See the radical Islamist Palestinian movement of Hamas today. See recent polls showing the majority of Palestinians are in favor of violence against Israel. Jewish people originally inspired by the (largely SECULAR) Zionist liberation movement have come home finally in the Jewish state of Israel, revived the Hebrew language from its slumber and made it live again, to the ancient land of the Jewish people, and to get rid of them, yes, you'll have to kill them. No, I don't think all Jews who support the existence of Israel should move to Israel but I support those who do. Especially right now, when the world really is unfairly ganging up on both Israel and global Jewry (antisemitism masked as anti-Zionism has increased massively), it is brave and admirable thing for a Jew to come home to Israel.

That said, again ANY narrative that doesn't assign blame to BOTH SIDES for lack of peaceful two state agreement between the two parties is not to be taken seriously. The Palestinian side has a narrative to tell as well and they do have legit grievances.

Well perhaps they should stop referring to themselves as "the chosen ones" and to the rest of the world as goyim, here only to serve them.

Before you start spouting,Anti Semite ( which incidently is the zionist defence mechanism every time somebody speaks against Israel) I've said it before and ill say it again, I am not an Anti Semite because the Palestinian people are truly semitic unlike the European Zionists who are not descendent from Shem, son of Noah. I am also not against Jewish people, I am against the Zionist state of Israel and there illegal occupation of Palestine.

There never was a Palestine. It is a region of the levant, sham. In thousands of years no entity called Palestine existed as a state. Indeed, no arab chronicles ever suggested this either, nor that it was of any particular arab significance. Having said that, there were arabs occupying these lands for a millenia, and they were displaced in the early 20th century. Subsequently, generations have suffered. It is apparent that providing them a state as well, to live in coexistence with Israel, would be a solution to the homelessness. However, the notion that their Palestinian State was taken from them and occupying is pure fantasy. Its is indisputable and since everything regarding the prusuit of peace involves small, tricky points of fact and want, this fact cannot be overlooked. Whether it is significant or not in prursuit of peace I leave to others. But when falseness is substituted for reality, it should be called. Furthermore, the illegality you cite, in presuming it rests upon the predicate that there was a Palestine, fails. The illegality you cite, presuming it rests upon theft of lands in any regard, fails! These lands, fairly or not, were assinged from the British Mandate. However disagreeable it all may be, and it is for me, revising history as we go along is silly.

Lastly, it makes no difference to me whether someone likes or doesnt like Jews; I maintain it is everyone's free right of association and expression to like or not whomever they wish. But suggesting a small tribe of Jews delcaring themsevles "choosen," in the midst of a hundreds of millions of muslims who want them dead because they are supremists, hardly constitutes a noteworth point. If all the Jews marched around in the desert declaring "we are chosen, we are chosen" it should hardly be more disturbing than 1.2 billion muslims with a written scriptural imperative to kill the Jews.

Sweden recognizing a Palestinian State was an emotion decision born of their new muslim constituency. Generally, I have little use for any of them but birthing a Palestine State, for the first time in history, in the middle of this conflict will greatly escalate things.

[konying]

Thats the fantastic job that western media has done to people like yourselves. They have demonised the muslims so that everyone believes they are all terrorists, and shallow minded masses are gullible enough to believe such propaganda.

There are organisations such as Hasbara who are responsible for this, it is a fact look them up if you dont believe me.

Yes of course its the media and the jews, because in reality there was nothing and is nothing, all was and is a fiction, Isis is a cartoon made by Jews and Alquada is a video game made by jews.

Typical arab strategy to scapegoat

Hopefully you are done with nonsense and back to OP

Edited October 30, 2014 by konying

[konying]

Yes back to the OP I agree.

Well done Sweden for growing a pair and doing what is right! !

So who did Sweden recognise? Fatah or Hamas?

[konying]

Really you do not see zionists holding violent demonstrations????

You are joking, look a little harder and you will see

Why do not you post some links for me