Initial DNA test clears Koh Tao village headman's son of murder

[ClutchClark]

LOL...You have said some stupid things, that is the silliest...A slow boat can do it in 90 minutes,,A speed boat in a hurry like the one that was reported...less than 60 minutes...why so much denial JD...you seem to be taking all this to heart, defending things you can't defend...Do you think the family will charge the police with defamation after naming them early in the investigation, or are the police lies acceptable to you...these scum need to pay...

a run between KT and Samui (+/-34 nm) at the relatively slow speed of 17kts can be done in two hours or there bout's and this is not a speed boat, whether is can be done in an hour or so, all depends on the boat you have, but is it conceivable ? certainly if you have a boat that can hit 30 odd kts, and if memory serves the sea states at this time where calm, so no impact from the sea conditions, a boat could travel near to max speed.

So now the killer is such a criminal mastermind that he had already hired a high-speed boat to wait for him just off-shore while he and his accomplices planned out and executed this murder.

But with all their planning they forgot to hide the murder weapon or even throw it in the ocean to remove blood and prints. And they forgot to wear a condom to prevent easily identified DNA.

Yes, absolutely brilliant.

Edited November 1, 2014 by ClutchClark

[cowboy country]

OK, so then your trust is actually so great that you think this event is "staged". Thats what I was hoping to measure, just how large you and others think this alleged conspiracy is.

Now you are thinking that these four respected hospital labs are also complicit in this alleged frame-up.

Can I ask what the motivation would be for these hospitals to risk their credentials?

Thanks

They test what they are given . . . and people are questioning whether the "original" samples they are testing against are actually genuine or not or have been planted . . .

Thanks for a civil response. I appreciate it.

I have stated from the first days when posters were clamoring about demanding DNA tests that any comparison to original samples was dependent on the "quality" of those original samples.

Now that the bodies have been given to Britain for forensics, it would seem likely that early DNA findings would have been independently corroborated by British testing facilities and any sample provided by this young man would be compared against easily authenticated results of the British. After all, the British police have long been allowed to observe the evidentiary proceedings of the RTP in an effort by the latter to show transparency in the investigation.

But there are some members on this forum who are convinced the KT family is some sort of criminal mastermind who controls all of Thailand from their island hide-a-way. Something akin to James Bonds villain, SPECTRE.

image.jpg

You are suggesting that the UK police have been given Nom sod's DNA sample, they haven't...WOuld Nom Sod be prepared to give them a sample as well????? they weren't there for this latest scam...Why was his Daddy there? Don't you have a problem with a 22 year old needing his daddy to speak for him..Why did the police state that Mon was the suspect? How did they clear his name again? thise facts never came out...Will the police do 5 years for slanderiing Mon??? Farce is a farce...Thailand is showing the world how corrupt it is...Som Num Na..Loss of face and loss of income is the only justice the real victims will get here....Boycott Koh Tao people, it's controlled by Nefarious people..

[ClutchClark]

OK, so then your trust is actually so great that you think this event is "staged". Thats what I was hoping to measure, just how large you and others think this alleged conspiracy is.

Now you are thinking that these four respected hospital labs are also complicit in this alleged frame-up.

Can I ask what the motivation would be for these hospitals to risk their credentials?

Thanks

They test what they are given . . . and people are questioning whether the "original" samples they are testing against are actually genuine or not or have been planted . . .

Thanks for a civil response. I appreciate it.

I have stated from the first days when posters were clamoring about demanding DNA tests that any comparison to original samples was dependent on the "quality" of those original samples.

Now that the bodies have been given to Britain for forensics, it would seem likely that early DNA findings would have been independently corroborated by British testing facilities and any sample provided by this young man would be compared against easily authenticated results of the British. After all, the British police have long been allowed to observe the evidentiary proceedings of the RTP in an effort by the latter to show transparency in the investigation.

But there are some members on this forum who are convinced the KT family is some sort of criminal mastermind who controls all of Thailand from their island hide-a-way. Something akin to James Bonds villain, SPECTRE.

image.jpg

You are suggesting that the UK police have been given Nom sod's DNA sample, they haven't...WOuld Nom Sod be prepared to give them a sample as well????? they weren't there for this latest scam...Why was his Daddy there? Don't you have a problem with a 22 year old needing his daddy to speak for him..Why did the police state that Mon was the suspect? How did they clear his name again? thise facts never came out...Will the police do 5 years for slanderiing Mon??? Farce is a farce...Thailand is showing the world how corrupt it is...Som Num Na..Loss of face and loss of income is the only justice the real victims will get here....Boycott Koh Tao people, it's controlled by Nefarious people..

Do I have a problem with a 22-year old having his daddy speak for him?

Yes, I would hope they were smart enough to have an attorney speak for both of them.

I know I would.

[stevepompey]

Village head behaves like Al Copone.

Same behavior of denial as well as obvious involvement.

There must be some element of guilt for him to behave this way.

[culicine]

did the past month was sufficient enough to swap evidence and give green light to the village hero's son to walk up for a test?

one wonder why the police didn't bother to do it right on the first week in the first place!!

just love how word mafia gets interchanged by influential...but of course Thailand has no mafia, never had, never will be. just people with influence.

I'd love to know how the DNA found on the victim's bodies was handled. If they did not follow protocol it could not be used in court. Did a qualified medical examiner collect the specimens? How as it handled? etc. Surely if the investigation was based on facts and not half truths and lies, it should be pretty easy to write a report on the investigation. They simply do not have enough evidence at the moment to bring it to court. Unless something new pops up, like an eye witness, then this is going nowhere.

[elektrified]

I don't understand. Why is a 22 year old man being led around by Daddy like he is 12 years old? Is he handicapped or something?

Most spoiled brats in Thailand are led around by their parents regardless of their age.

[buhi]

I have a problem with the Chief of Police being required to attend a routine DNA test of a 22 year old son of someone not very important!

Can you imagine this in a developed country, where being chief of police means being at the top and dealing with non mundane things!

Edited November 1, 2014 by buhi

[whaleboneman]

At least now we know how long it takes a corrupt government to try and cover up a crime, fail and find patsies, almost fail at that and then plant DNA or falsify results. 99% of the world doesn't believe you Thailand, and I am sure a large amount of those people will not forget this incident.

99%??? Really? What orifice did that statistic come from?

Incorrect. I believe it is 99.9999% and it comes from social media.

[user4674534]

I don't think we will ever truthfully know who killed the two Brits. The 2 burmese will most definitely walk anyway with a good lawyer. Their lawyer should be able to totally discredit the 'DNA process', as well as other questionable pieces of evidence.

It is debatable whether it was still relevant to test the headman's son's DNA. The 'only' way that any DNA test will be credible is if the 'original' samples taken from the body were not contaminated, substituted or planted and the police can conclusively prove this and the continuity of the evidence. It doesn't matter how many people they test if the original DNA are suspect.

Seminal DNA will not prove murder. The lawyer could suggest consensual sex prior to the murder???????.

There are so many negatives in this investigation it is a Defense Lawyers dream.

Guilty or not. Any good lawyer will get these two off and that will be the biggest miscarriage of justice of all time if they did it, compliments of the BIB.

[Thomas Hannah]

Speed boat to chumphon,,then car to bangkok..7 hours..Max,,It is less than 500 kilometers from chumphon,To bangkok,,,60 miles an hour,,less than 5 hours..Koh tao cannot be more than 50 miles to chumphon,,A normal speed boat can do this in an hour,,Remember,,This is a rich kid,,With a well connected father,,And why have they waited 6 weeks for a DNA test on him,,The true evidence is gone,,In England,,They do not allow a body to be burried,,so quickly,,in a murder case,,It is very easy to corrupt DNA and any other evidence in thailand,,If you are connected,,and pay the money..

lets just make a note that you dont dispute that the guy went into hiding and try to move on

Hiding? That is your characterization. Was in BKK. Contacted the police on his own after obtaining a lawyer and exculpatory evidence, would be my characterization.

I did know you wouldn't give a source. It simply wasn't true.

I'm not entirely sure images from CCTV at his condo timestamped anywhere between 4-7 hours after the incident is exculpatory evidence, given you could travel from KT to BKK in that time period.

You don't have to be. You are assuming that is the only evidence that the police investigation in BKK revealed.

BTW from KT to BKK takes more than 4 hours. First off you must get to Samui or Chumpon then wait for a plane then get from the airport to the university.

4+ hours? Yeah, if he stops off for a Burger King and is after a new pair for flip flops at the airport.

1 hour flight + 30 mins check in + 30 mins from airport to Uni allows 2 hour grace to get to Samui or Chumpon. Might be tight, but do-able if you've got ways and means to make it happen.

LOL

You have never been to Koh Tao, have you??

It doesn't have an airport.

I will leave it to you to figure out how long it takes to get to an airport.

I have, actually.

Also, re-read my post. I said "allows 2 hour grace to get to Samui or Chumpon".

Absolute proof you have not been thp

Believe what you want love. Needless to say, when I was on KT, I didn't have to make a dash off the island within a 4 hour timeframe but it's totally do-able if you can pull a few strings.

[whaleboneman]

He has been cleared of having sex with the lady only. Nothing else. Police have the idea that who ever had the sex is the killer.

And you think the island is so full of rapists and murderers that one group killed her and David and then a separate group came along and raped her?

Exactly what I thought from the beginning. The murderers got the Burmese involved after the deed was done so they would have fall guys. Hence, no looking for DNA on murder weapons and no finger printing done. DNA match from body proves rape not murder.

I will never visit a mafia island again.

[Strangebrew]

Well good he is clear why didn't you do this in the first place instead of losing your family face and dragging them through the mud. A honorable man would have done it in the beginning. But won't change the fact that the police seem to work for your family and your family is disgraced. As I will never spend a single satang on your Island nor will I tell friends to visit there The damage has been done. Only way I would believe the results is if the British test them against the DNA they collect from Hannah. Oh you forgot about that huh? But I still feel the Burmese are innocent. But that is the police covering a botched job. Totally unprofessional I might add but that is just my thoughts. Let others judge for themselves the truth.

[elektrified]

I'll tell you all what it's going to take to get to the bottom of this (and what I think will happen eventually) and that is a British investigative journalism TV documentary (if they still have such a thing).

YES! YES! and YES! again.

Channel 4 likely the best for this.

Oh I do hope the British police investigation report is made available.

Now then, this isn't aimed at any particular poster, but can I please reiterate the Thai Visa forum rules, in particular rule 11.

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Please everyone, do be careful what you post. Please don't use names when discussing possible perpetrators of these murders.

Moderating the Koh Tao topics has become like walking a tightrope for us mods, who do this on a voluntary basis. We all want to see real justice as the outcome of this case. But at the same time we have to be aware of Thailand's rather draconian libel laws which are covered under criminal law as well as civil. This is the reason we have to keep removing posts that link the CSI LA Facebook page and we have to keep to boring old mainstream media reports.

This really isn't easy. We honestly don't want to endlessly remove posts. We are not complicit in any sort of bizarre cover up. But we do have to protect the forum and the people who post here.

If anyone has any questions about this, please PM me rather than replying to this post.

Many thanks,

MJP

You are an excellent moderator IMHO.

[bannork]

Speed boat to chumphon,,then car to bangkok..7 hours..Max,,It is less than 500 kilometers from chumphon,To bangkok,,,60 miles an hour,,less than 5 hours..Koh tao cannot be more than 50 miles to chumphon,,A normal speed boat can do this in an hour,,Remember,,This is a rich kid,,With a well connected father,,And why have they waited 6 weeks for a DNA test on him,,The true evidence is gone,,In England,,They do not allow a body to be burried,,so quickly,,in a murder case,,It is very easy to corrupt DNA and any other evidence in thailand,,If you are connected,,and pay the money..

lets just make a note that you dont dispute that the guy went into hiding and try to move on

Hiding? That is your characterization. Was in BKK. Contacted the police on his own after obtaining a lawyer and exculpatory evidence, would be my characterization.

I did know you wouldn't give a source. It simply wasn't true.

I'm not entirely sure images from CCTV at his condo timestamped anywhere between 4-7 hours after the incident is exculpatory evidence, given you could travel from KT to BKK in that time period.

You don't have to be. You are assuming that is the only evidence that the police investigation in BKK revealed.

BTW from KT to BKK takes more than 4 hours. First off you must get to Samui or Chumpon then wait for a plane then get from the airport to the university.

4+ hours? Yeah, if he stops off for a Burger King and is after a new pair for flip flops at the airport.

1 hour flight + 30 mins check in + 30 mins from airport to Uni allows 2 hour grace to get to Samui or Chumpon. Might be tight, but do-able if you've got ways and means to make it happen.

LOL

You have never been to Koh Tao, have you??

It doesn't have an airport.

I will leave it to you to figure out how long it takes to get to an airport.

I have, actually.

Also, re-read my post. I said "allows 2 hour grace to get to Samui or Chumpon".

Absolute proof you have not been thp

Believe what you want love. Needless to say, when I was on KT, I didn't have to make a dash off the island within a 4 hour timeframe but it's totally do-able if you can pull a few strings.

So a rich kid can hire a speedboat at a moment's notice at 5.00am.

Well why not take the 2 bodies and dump them at sea weighted down, a lot easier than trying to 'fix' the DNA?

[epicstuff]

Again it is all the confused and ambiguous statements that have slowly come out that is making it hard to believe. If this is a clear solid case against the Burmese I would really like to see a clear statement that describes exactly which DNA has been matched to whom and collected from where, which DNA has been verified as not matching whom. what DNA samples were collected in the early part of the investigation and which ones on the second round, which DNA can be verified as taken under supervision so that it can be ruled as 100% un-tainted . and which one not , so that we have to rely on blind trust that the results are genuine with no risk factor of misinformation

We got DNA on a cigarette butt,, on the body , in the body, we got 2 Burmese. we got a condom, Which facts go with what and is it all verifiable with no possibility of contamination switching etc.?

For me All the statements that have been released at different times has just got me more and more confused as to what is going on.... quite possibly in there own minds they know what they are doing but it really hasn't come across like that. So until i see it all clearly laid out with witnesses to each sample as it proceeds from collection to testing and back again there will always be doubt in my mind and probably everyone else's as to the integrity of this investigation. It would certainly clear up many of the questions and doubts voiced on a 1000 TV pages that have been raised since this fiasco started . Has there ever been so many things written by so many people on a TV thread before ??? 98% in agreement . Got to be a first and is testiment to how bad this investigation or reporting of has been..

All the blatant false leads at the beginning , the mass contamination by police at the crime scene, the rapid exit of the son from the island with his lack of willingness to co-operate for several weeks , the ridiculous comments from the headman and his money offer , complete u-turns on various police statements , like they have ruled out theft as a motive then a later statement that the Burmese robbed the victims, Together with the stupid things the police announced like the investigation is 85% complete . now we have a perfect case, . bla bla bla; has just made it all seem like a far fetched story from some bad movie.. and needs to be cleared up so that the victims family and the public at large can move on and have have faith that the Thai police and legal system has some honest function to protect the innocent. and condemn the guilty.

It has been mentioned before but now it has become a case that is directly examining whether the police are responsible in some way of twisting the results and therefore should be excluded from conducting this investigation completely. the case should now be handed over to an independent investigative body or it will remain a case of 'who is watching the watchers'.

Edited November 1, 2014 by epicstuff

[loongdavid]

There will always be a level of doubt with DNA testing as long as the tests are carried out in a RTP forensic laboratory. Forensic laboratories should always be independent of the RTP and Prosecution Service. Once more we see daily press and media briefings by the RTP that usually within days (sometimes hours) contradict themselves.

[cowboy country]

@clutch Clark

A Lawyer For both of them? Is the father a suspect?

Do you have a problem with the father offering a million if anyone can prove they are guilty?

That was the most heartless in your face comment ever..

These thugs think everything can be solved with money...hope they rot in hell...

Now without diverting, why is the daddy and the head of police holding his hand at the DNA check and glaring at the media...So corrupt...

What happened to the former police head who declared Mon was the suspect?? Will he serve 5 years?

Why did you say a poster called you names when there was nothing of the sort said, then you call him ugly? Are you for real?

You are losing your grip man...now can you please explain how Mon was cleared? I can.....$$$$$$$$

[louse1953]

Why couldnt Thai authorities do a DNA test fully in 24 hours? Was it not reported recently that they had a cure for Ebola? The first in the world???? See they can do things faster here than any where else in the world.

Wrong,it wasn't reported they had found a cure for ebola.

[Local Drunk]

Village head behaves like Al Copone.

Same behavior of denial as well as obvious involvement.

There must be some element of guilt for him to behave this way.

"There must be some element of guilt for him to behave this way."

Maybe he's guilty of being a parent...

[Jai Dee]

A number of posts containing insults, flames, and baiting have been removed from this thread.

Please be civil.

Posting Content & General Conduct

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

8) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

[Soutpeel]

Why couldnt Thai authorities do a DNA test fully in 24 hours? Was it not reported recently that they had a cure for Ebola? The first in the world???? See they can do things faster here than any where else in the world.

Wrong,it wasn't reported they had found a cure for ebola.

Actually if you go and look at the TV headline on this topic, they did proclaim they had found a cure for Ebola, only when reading the body of the text did one realize the headline was sensationalised

[Jai Dee]

Also, I will repeat the request of another moderator in another KT topic:

This isn't aimed at any particular poster, but can I please reiterate the Thai Visa forum rules, in particular rule 11.

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Please everyone, do be careful what you post. Please don't use names when discussing possible perpetrators of these murders.

Moderating the Koh Tao topics has become like walking a tightrope for us mods, who do this on a voluntary basis. We all want to see real justice as the outcome of this case. But at the same time we have to be aware of Thailand's rather draconian libel laws which are covered under criminal law as well as civil. This is the reason we have to keep removing posts that link the CSI LA Facebook page and we have to keep to boring old mainstream media reports.

This really isn't easy. We honestly don't want to endlessly remove posts. We are not complicit in any sort of bizarre cover up. But we do have to protect the forum and the people who post here.

If anyone has any questions about this, please PM a moderator rather than replying to this post.

Many thanks on behalf of the moderating team,

JD

[minikev]

If all they have left on the B2 is DNA as reported http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/772887-koh-tao-murders-lawyer-expresses-doubts-over-new-dna-test-offer/?utm_source=newsletter-20141031-1507&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

"Thai police should make sure to have concrete evidence before the suspects are charged in court as they may face the death penalty. The police submitted DNA test as the only evidence and not a single witness was present. That's why Koh Samui prosecutors returned the case to Thai police to find further evidence.

What on earth happened to all the other evidence IE fingerprints, footprints, cctv, witnesses,surely there must have been soiled clothing. What happened to the man who took the phone from them and threw it away. Surely that would be good evidence.

If the DNA was enough the prosecutors would have already gone to court I'm starting to think they will walk sooner rather than later.

If they do will the case be reopened?

[stopthegreed]

No, I am talking about people whom have no regard for any form of human life, and hide behind a farsical religon, people whom only beleive in personal greed. People whom have no morals in any shape or form and have the audacity to look down on everyone with utter and total contempt.

As said pure EVIL

I think the lynch mob you mention are the ones in uniform, the Thai courts wont accept the case....4th time I believe....That says everything you need to know

Corruption in Thailand I understand and accept but one thing I cannot and will not accept is pure EVIL, what we are witnessing in the last 4 weeks is just that....pure evil

There are some evil money grabbing bastards in this country

Are you talking about the people locked in a lynch mob mentality that are clamoring to have a man sent to death row based on absolutely no proof whatsoever that he is a murderer?

[louse1953]

Why couldnt Thai authorities do a DNA test fully in 24 hours? Was it not reported recently that they had a cure for Ebola? The first in the world???? See they can do things faster here than any where else in the world.

Wrong,it wasn't reported they had found a cure for ebola.

Actually if you go and look at the TV headline on this topic, they did proclaim they had found a cure for Ebola, only when reading the body of the text did one realize the headline was sensationalised

Yes,i realize that,TVF editors create headlines to get the eyes,so reading AND comprehending the full story is required,bit much for some.

[retarius]

What seems odd here is that the Police themselves are conducting these DNA tests instead of an independent lab...is this the usual practice in other countries. Seems to be open to abuse if the police can say, yes it matched or didn't? As I remember it, there were two kinds of sperm on one of the victims. Sperm is pretty good as a sample for DNS testing...this shouldn't be this difficult....given the public concern, why not put DNA testing out to an independent lab with an independent witness.

[stopthegreed]

BORISTHEBLADE

I completely agree with everything you said. I lived in Thailand for 9 years. And it got to the point where, I was not only gaining a dislike for the people there, but a hatred. They want your money, every one of them and couldnt care less if you dropped dead in the street.

Am I wrong for saying this? well Im afraid it works both ways, because they hate us, all of them.

The Police have made a complete mockery of this, why did it take 5 days for the DNA results of the suspects, yet 24 hours for this guy. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

I left there 8 Months ago, and now stay in The Philippines, at least people there understand my point of view, with their knowledge of the English language, I just wish I had pissed off years ago.

[louse1953]

What seems odd here is that the Police themselves are conducting these DNA tests instead of an independent lab...is this the usual practice in other countries. Seems to be open to abuse if the police can say, yes it matched or didn't? As I remember it, there were two kinds of sperm on one of the victims. Sperm is pretty good as a sample for DNS testing...this shouldn't be this difficult....given the public concern, why not put DNA testing out to an independent lab with an independent witness.

14 pages and you still don't know it is also being done by independant labs!!!Your post is irrevalent.

[falangjim]

"Son of Koh Tao headman..." means Nomsad Toovichian. What? His name can't be in a headline?

Edited November 1, 2014 by falangjim

[thailandchilli]

What seems odd here is that the Police themselves are conducting these DNA tests instead of an independent lab...is this the usual practice in other countries. Seems to be open to abuse if the police can say, yes it matched or didn't? As I remember it, there were two kinds of sperm on one of the victims. Sperm is pretty good as a sample for DNS testing...this shouldn't be this difficult....given the public concern, why not put DNA testing out to an independent lab with an independent witness.

14 pages and you still don't know it is also being done by independant labs!!!Your post is irrevalent.

Independent labs..........please get a little reaility here. The Police Hospital, followed by 3 other hand picked hospitals. This is far from an independent test. Would you like to see the official procedure for an independent DNA test? Happy to provide you with a dozen links