DNA results from Ko Tao village head’s son don't match traces on slain British tourists

[BoristheBlade]

"instructions: "wrap this case up quickly. It's horrible for tourist revenue!"

Was this the reason, tourist revenue?....or was there other motives to cover up this crime?

What ever happened to Gen Panya after he made his announcement that Mon and Worat were prime suspects? And why were Mon and Worat dismissed as suspects so quickly after Lt Gen Chakthip to over the case.

Now there is an intelligent question. There are 2 possibilities. Take your choice which one you prefer.

It appears the first police boss on the case, Gen Panya, was only a bit corrupted, but he appeared to try to do a reasonably decent investigation. After a week, two individual little people went public claiming cops were beating them (and/or offering them money) to be false witnesses in order to shield the headman's family. Within a day or two, Thailand's top general replaced the former guy with a newer guy, with the instructions: "wrap this case up quickly. It's horrible for tourist revenue!" The new guy got Burmese scapegoats the next day, and the rest is what we've been upset about ever since.

[Baerboxer]

been looking again at David's wounds

looks like a shark bite

but by 1 tooth

According to the roti/pancake seller/RTP interpreter, David was hit with a large wine wine bottle. Mr Roti openly stated this was what the 2 accused told him. There is a video of his interview showing on Facebook. Strange that the bottle was never found or referred to as a weapon by RTP.

Perhaps JD and JTJ can explain this minor discrepancy??

I am not conversant on the conspiracy theorist website.

Can I take it that you now believe the confessions?

Is the roti seller now credible to you?

Are you sure that the police have not mentioned a wine bottle?

The basic answer would be that the confessions came 2 weeks after the murders. If there was not a wine bottle found what happened to it? Did the roti seller answer that?

All should be answered in court

is there actually a real court system there?

and, would a real court accept confessions from people who couldn't read what they were signing?

confessions in a language they didn't understand

written and professed to by an interpreter who didn't understand

is that what you are so proudly defending here?

you want us to believe this?

In any court (real court) the judge(s) will expect to see evidence that supports the alleged confession. Courts simply do not accept confessions as the be and end all. Many people were convicted based on dodgy confessions in the UK in the 70's which were subsequently overturned. The emergence of DNA testing helped establish innocence in some of these cases.

The have also been many examples of nutters confessing to things they didn't do. A good police force sees a confession as the start for inquiries not the completion. Here, once they have the confession, game over. Very different procedures.

[BoristheBlade]

It's been reported that when the two bodies of the victims returned to the United Kingdom, a Home Office Pathologist conducted an autopsy on the two.

Home Office Pathologist......For none Brits, that means the finest, most qualified pathologists conducted the autopsy. Home office Pathologists are only used on the most serious of murders. They are regarded as the finest pathologists in the world.

If your a Thai member of the law enforcement agencies, that means, you had better have the correct DNA, Toxicology, and cause of death reports present and correct, otherwise this is going to come back and haunt you.

DNA obtained from the two Burmese Accused.

David killed with a hoe???...really???

Date Rate drugs in the blood of Hanna?

THREE samples of unknown DNA on Hanna

Then the British Police with help from the Intelligence Community resources come into play

Phone records, cctv enhancement...the list is long and more important comprehensive and accurate.

I wonder why the Thai Courts won't proceed. We all know why and they are right to be scared.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY

Edited November 2, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[Mackie]

In any court (real court) the judge(s) will expect to see evidence that supports the alleged confession. Courts simply do not accept confessions as the be and end all. Many people were convicted based on dodgy confessions in the UK in the 70's which were subsequently overturned. The emergence of DNA testing helped establish innocence in some of these cases.

The have also been many examples of nutters confessing to things they didn't do. A good police force sees a confession as the start for inquiries not the completion. Here, once they have the confession, game over. Very different procedures.

There is no doubt that the Thai Royal police completely messed things up in this particular case. For whatever reason. Even if those Burmese guys were guilty the good lawyer would get them out of jail on technicalities. However, would you accept the verdict in case David and Hannah's parents accepted it as a valid one? Also rumour has it that the British team have obtained the Burmese guys DNA samples as well as son's. I'm certain that the British investigators have already got the results. I don't hear them complaining.

[jdinasia]

Baer

Even in Thailand a confession alone isn't a guarantee of a conviction (if it were none of us would be discussing this).

It still requires a guilty pleasure and circumstantial evidence.

Without all 3 it is not a given that it will even go to trial.

One real issue is that of the basic rule of a reduced sentence. It is not beyond belief that a person may choose a guilty plea when confronted with the knowledge that failing to plea means a harsher sentence and the prosecution has some evidence.

[stephen terry]

Whether or whether not the Headman's son was on Koh Tao that night, his DNA result (however questionable) excludes him from the crime scene. That will never change now, however much screaming and shouting foul on Media networks. It is as likely he didn't actively participate in the crimes as any other supposition, because nobody on here knows.

However, if that influential and powerful family wants to regain respect (and they're innocent) they should finger the culprits without fear of reprisals. IMO, with fingers in every pie, they would know who would be likely to commit this crime - it's a small island patch - but I am not surprised the senior RTP didn't follow through with this at the DNA media ceremony (that would be to admit failure).

Of course if they are involved, and there has been a massive cover-up, the B2 will be processed and forgotten. Now that the RTP are taking a hard-line stance to commit these guys, it's what will happen in due course, whatever...

[Number 3]

It's been reported that when the two bodies of the victims returned to the United Kingdom, a Home Office Pathologist conducted an autopsy on the two.

Home Office Pathologist......For none Brits, that means the finest, most qualified pathologists conducted the autopsy. Home office Pathologists are only used on the most serious of murders. They are regarded as the finest pathologists in the world.

If your a Thai member of the law enforcement agencies, that means, you had better have the correct DNA, Toxicology, and cause of death reports present and correct, otherwise this is going to come back and haunt you.

David killed with a hoe???...really???

Date Rate drugs in the blood of Hanna?

THREE samples of unknown DNA on Hanna

I wonder why the Thai Courts won't proceed. We all know why and they are right to be scared.

Actually the above requirements are not necessary

You need the public prosecutor on side and the court. These small islands have very deep relationships in place to ensure these requirements are not necessary. This was all about to go off as hundreds of other cases have gone off before it. Social media, Mr Camerons chat, the International spotlight has been bothersome and caused a hump in the road. Pi**ed off all of em from the local coppers to the high ups in Bangkok.

All are trying desperately to stay on track and "appear"to all to be doing right and lawful actions.

This juggernaut has one chance the way I see it. The British investigative report needs to leaked ASAP. Leak it out pronto then apologise. Works for the Thais as a strategy.

[jdinasia]

In any court (real court) the judge(s) will expect to see evidence that supports the alleged confession. Courts simply do not accept confessions as the be and end all. Many people were convicted based on dodgy confessions in the UK in the 70's which were subsequently overturned. The emergence of DNA testing helped establish innocence in some of these cases.

The have also been many examples of nutters confessing to things they didn't do. A good police force sees a confession as the start for inquiries not the completion. Here, once they have the confession, game over. Very different procedures.

There is no doubt that the Thai Royal police completely messed things up in this particular case. For whatever reason. Even if those Burmese guys were guilty the good lawyer would get them out of jail on technicalities. However, would you accept the verdict in case David and Hannah's parents accepted it as a valid one? Also rumour has it that the British team have obtained the Burmese guys DNA samples as well as son's. I'm certain that the British investigators have already got the results. I don't hear them complaining.

Technicalities are not as significant in Thailand.

Rumors are only that (and if you listen to the rumors you would believe anything).

[joebrown]

Pornthip... Credibility severely damaged in 1 word. GT200

You fail to recognise or accept what Porntip actually said. She didn't say she should have been asked to attend in person. What she pointed out was the failure of the RTP to get Forensic Pathologists onto the crime scene as a matter of urgent procedure. It's hardly surprising the RTP failed to do this when you have phographic evidence of the 'persons of interest' invading the scene on day 1. Any forensic evidence taken from the crime scene and subsequently used in a court of law is corrupted and quite rightly open to contradiction by the defence lawyers, prosecutors, judges, and anyone else whose concern is seeing justice prevail.

[SteveFong]

Not if they get DNA from the guy with the speedboat, the guys in the cave and if they are forced to identify, th asian man in the CCTV photos

all that stlll counts, as well, the internet activity of the girlfriend who reported him missing all over the web, instrgram, facebook, and jailface

[BoristheBlade]

The dna test proved nothing, only on these results Nomsod did not rape Hanna.

Was he on the Island? If so, please let him and his father explain the Bangkok cctv.

I agree about the Family wanting to help the investigation, but why have they not?? WHY? Why no condolonces to the victims???

The answer may be in the silence

Whether or whether not the Headman's son was on Koh Tao that night, his DNA result (however questionable) excludes him from the crime scene. That will never change now, however much screaming and shouting foul on Media networks. It is as likely he didn't actively participate in the crimes as any other supposition, because nobody on here knows.

However, if that influential and powerful family wants to regain respect (and they're innocent) they should finger the culprits without fear of reprisals. IMO, with fingers in every pie, they would know who would be likely to commit this crime - it's a small island patch - but I am not surprised the senior RTP didn't follow through with this at the DNA media ceremony (that would be to admit failure).

Of course if they are involved, and there has been a massive cover-up, the B2 will be processed and forgotten. Now that the RTP are taking a hard-line stance to commit these guys, it's what will happen in due course, whatever...

[BoristheBlade]

Exactly, hence the circus came to town with a new side show...DNA

I think the Brits will be whispering this comming week

It's been reported that when the two bodies of the victims returned to the United Kingdom, a Home Office Pathologist conducted an autopsy on the two.

Home Office Pathologist......For none Brits, that means the finest, most qualified pathologists conducted the autopsy. Home office Pathologists are only used on the most serious of murders. They are regarded as the finest pathologists in the world.

If your a Thai member of the law enforcement agencies, that means, you had better have the correct DNA, Toxicology, and cause of death reports present and correct, otherwise this is going to come back and haunt you.

David killed with a hoe???...really???

Date Rate drugs in the blood of Hanna?

THREE samples of unknown DNA on Hanna

I wonder why the Thai Courts won't proceed. We all know why and they are right to be scared.

Actually the above requirements are not necessary
You need the public prosecutor on side and the court. These small islands have very deep relationships in place to ensure these requirements are not necessary. This was all about to go off as hundreds of other cases have gone off before it. Social media, Mr Camerons chat, the International spotlight has been bothersome and caused a hump in the road. Pi**ed off all of em from the local coppers to the high ups in Bangkok.
All are trying desperately to stay on track and "appear"to all to be doing right and lawful actions.
This juggernaut has one chance the way I see it. The British investigative report needs to leaked ASAP. Leak it out pronto then apologise. Works for the Thais as a strategy.

[Bleacher Bum East]

Whether or whether not the Headman's son was on Koh Tao that night, his DNA result (however questionable) excludes him from the crime scene. That will never change now, however much screaming and shouting foul on Media networks. It is as likely he didn't actively participate in the crimes as any other supposition, because nobody on here knows.

However, if that influential and powerful family wants to regain respect (and they're innocent) they should finger the culprits without fear of reprisals. IMO, with fingers in every pie, they would know who would be likely to commit this crime - it's a small island patch - but I am not surprised the senior RTP didn't follow through with this at the DNA media ceremony (that would be to admit failure).

Of course if they are involved, and there has been a massive cover-up, the B2 will be processed and forgotten. Now that the RTP are taking a hard-line stance to commit these guys, it's what will happen in due course, whatever...

Stephen you seem like a rational and thoughtful guy so I'm surprised you reached the conclusion you did in your first sentence.

I don't want to comment on any specific individual, but . . .

The lack of a DNA match to the semen and cigarette does not exclude anybody from the crime scene.

What you said is dangerous because it means the investigators can stop investigating once they've found two people that match the DNA found on Hannah's body and the cigarette.

But for investigation purposes, I believe it would be irrational to assume that only two persons, especially two small Burmese men without a gun or the victims having been drugged, committed these crimes by themselves.

There could have been several people involved in the crime who did not leave semen DNA on Hannah's body or saliva DNA on the cigarette butt.

We just don't know.

But until the investigators know for sure, they should keep looking for others involved (and I personally have no guess as to who they are).

Public safety, and justice, absolutely requires this.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[jdinasia]

Pornthip... Credibility severely damaged in 1 word. GT200

You fail to recognise or accept what Porntip actually said. She didn't say she should have been asked to attend in person. What she pointed out was the failure of the RTP to get Forensic Pathologists onto the crime scene as a matter of urgent procedure. It's hardly surprising the RTP failed to do this when you have phographic evidence of the 'persons of interest' invading the scene on day 1. Any forensic evidence taken from the crime scene and subsequently used in a court of law is corrupted and quite rightly open to contradiction by the defence lawyers, prosecutors, judges, and anyone else whose concern is seeing justice prevail.

You fail to recognize what she actually said. She said she could make the gt200 work. Permanently damaging her credibility.

I don't know the qualifications of the 7 officers who were on the scene, and I doubt she did when she said a specialist should have been called. (I doubt any were DNA specialists but some may have had training)

The issue of letting persons of interest in, is a red herring. There were no persons of interest at the time. Nobody should have been let into the crime scene ideally. The problem here arises when you realize you are in Thailand and notifying the headman was natural.

Yes the case is flawed. It is up to the judges to decide if it is fatally flawed or not.

[Soutpeel]

Whether or whether not the Headman's son was on Koh Tao that night, his DNA result (however questionable) excludes him from the crime scene.

Er no it doesn't, all the DNA "proves" he may not have played an actual part in the rape/murders or and left any DNA traces, that doesn't mean he wasn't there and knows exactly what went on, as stated earlier, I am convinced it wasn't this boy who did the dirty deed but "associates" hanger's on or relatives of the family, and all the circus around the the DNA test has provided a distraction away from the real culprit's

the boy didn't need to kill/rape anybody and all the other "evidence" ie the video's, reputably doing a a bunk from KT etc would still fit, and he could be still involved in this, lets face it, if the reputed family is the "mafia" people claim they are, he will not be doing the "dirty work" one of the minions will.

[HUH]

Pornthip... Credibility severely damaged in 1 word. GT200

You fail to recognise or accept what Porntip actually said. She didn't say she should have been asked to attend in person. What she pointed out was the failure of the RTP to get Forensic Pathologists onto the crime scene as a matter of urgent procedure. It's hardly surprising the RTP failed to do this when you have phographic evidence of the 'persons of interest' invading the scene on day 1. Any forensic evidence taken from the crime scene and subsequently used in a court of law is corrupted and quite rightly open to contradiction by the defence lawyers, prosecutors, judges, and anyone else whose concern is seeing justice prevail.

You fail to recognize what she actually said. She said she could make the gt200 work. Permanently damaging her credibility.

I don't know the qualifications of the 7 officers who were on the scene, and I doubt she did when she said a specialist should have been called. (I doubt any were DNA specialists but some may have had training)

The issue of letting persons of interest in, is a red herring. There were no persons of interest at the time. Nobody should have been let into the crime scene ideally. The problem here arises when you realize you are in Thailand and notifying the headman was natural.

Yes the case is flawed. It is up to the judges to decide if it is fatally flawed or not.

I think the prosecutors have already decided that

Edited November 2, 2014 by HUH

[stephen terry]

It's been reported that when the two bodies of the victims returned to the United Kingdom, a Home Office Pathologist conducted an autopsy on the two.

Home Office Pathologist......For none Brits, that means the finest, most qualified pathologists conducted the autopsy. Home office Pathologists are only used on the most serious of murders. They are regarded as the finest pathologists in the world.

If your a Thai member of the law enforcement agencies, that means, you had better have the correct DNA, Toxicology, and cause of death reports present and correct, otherwise this is going to come back and haunt you.

David killed with a hoe???...really???

Date Rate drugs in the blood of Hanna?

THREE samples of unknown DNA on Hanna

I wonder why the Thai Courts won't proceed. We all know why and they are right to be scared.

Actually the above requirements are not necessary

You need the public prosecutor on side and the court. These small islands have very deep relationships in place to ensure these requirements are not necessary. This was all about to go off as hundreds of other cases have gone off before it. Social media, Mr Camerons chat, the International spotlight has been bothersome and caused a hump in the road. Pi**ed off all of em from the local coppers to the high ups in Bangkok.

All are trying desperately to stay on track and "appear"to all to be doing right and lawful actions.

This juggernaut has one chance the way I see it. The British investigative report needs to leaked ASAP. Leak it out pronto then apologise. Works for the Thais as a strategy.

I wouldn't hold out too much hope on the Brit report solving the case. Apart from the investigation failures from Day 1, the best it can show is that the B2 are excluded from the crime scene from DNA non-evidence, but that wouldn't necessarily be conclusive.

Plus it could point to other suspects who could not be excluded from being at the crime scene from the DNA evidence. In that scenario, there could be a diplomatic recommendation for further enquiries and interviews.

Even if any report was accepted, would any action be taken? Apart from trialling the B2?

[joebrown]

Pornthip... Credibility severely damaged in 1 word. GT200

You fail to recognise or accept what Porntip actually said. She didn't say she should have been asked to attend in person. What she pointed out was the failure of the RTP to get Forensic Pathologists onto the crime scene as a matter of urgent procedure. It's hardly surprising the RTP failed to do this when you have phographic evidence of the 'persons of interest' invading the scene on day 1. Any forensic evidence taken from the crime scene and subsequently used in a court of law is corrupted and quite rightly open to contradiction by the defence lawyers, prosecutors, judges, and anyone else whose concern is seeing justice prevail.

You fail to recognize what she actually said. She said she could make the gt200 work. Permanently damaging her credibility.

I don't know the qualifications of the 7 officers who were on the scene, and I doubt she did when she said a specialist should have been called. (I doubt any were DNA specialists but some may have had training)

The issue of letting persons of interest in, is a red herring. There were no persons of interest at the time. Nobody should have been let into the crime scene ideally. The problem here arises when you realize you are in Thailand and notifying the headman was natural.

Yes the case is flawed. It is up to the judges to decide if it is fatally flawed or not.

I agree that nobody should have entered the crime scene. Strange, I never realised that 'Mon' was the Headman of KT, I was led to believe it was someone of greater importance?

[BoristheBlade]

If the British Report was to show that the Thai investigation has been a farce and set up...it will be seen by the world.....BUT most important it will be read by the Thai Population.

A damming report of the RTP will be very damaging for this regime.

In my experience the Thai people don't like the police, don't trust them.....this report may just confirm that once and for all.

Seeds of change and all.............

It's been reported that when the two bodies of the victims returned to the United Kingdom, a Home Office Pathologist conducted an autopsy on the two.

Home Office Pathologist......For none Brits, that means the finest, most qualified pathologists conducted the autopsy. Home office Pathologists are only used on the most serious of murders. They are regarded as the finest pathologists in the world.

If your a Thai member of the law enforcement agencies, that means, you had better have the correct DNA, Toxicology, and cause of death reports present and correct, otherwise this is going to come back and haunt you.

David killed with a hoe???...really???

Date Rate drugs in the blood of Hanna?

THREE samples of unknown DNA on Hanna

I wonder why the Thai Courts won't proceed. We all know why and they are right to be scared.

Actually the above requirements are not necessary
You need the public prosecutor on side and the court. These small islands have very deep relationships in place to ensure these requirements are not necessary. This was all about to go off as hundreds of other cases have gone off before it. Social media, Mr Camerons chat, the International spotlight has been bothersome and caused a hump in the road. Pi**ed off all of em from the local coppers to the high ups in Bangkok.
All are trying desperately to stay on track and "appear"to all to be doing right and lawful actions.
This juggernaut has one chance the way I see it. The British investigative report needs to leaked ASAP. Leak it out pronto then apologise. Works for the Thais as a strategy.

I wouldn't hold out too much hope on the Brit report solving the case. Apart from the investigation failures from Day 1, the best it can show is that the B2 are excluded from the crime scene from DNA non-evidence, but that wouldn't necessarily be conclusive.

Plus it could point to other suspects who could not be excluded from being at the crime scene from the DNA evidence. In that scenario, there could be a diplomatic recommendation for further enquiries and interviews.

Even if any report was accepted, would any action be taken? Apart from trialling the B2?

[HUH]

It's been reported that when the two bodies of the victims returned to the United Kingdom, a Home Office Pathologist conducted an autopsy on the two.

Home Office Pathologist......For none Brits, that means the finest, most qualified pathologists conducted the autopsy. Home office Pathologists are only used on the most serious of murders. They are regarded as the finest pathologists in the world.

If your a Thai member of the law enforcement agencies, that means, you had better have the correct DNA, Toxicology, and cause of death reports present and correct, otherwise this is going to come back and haunt you.

David killed with a hoe???...really???

Date Rate drugs in the blood of Hanna?

THREE samples of unknown DNA on Hanna

I wonder why the Thai Courts won't proceed. We all know why and they are right to be scared.

Actually the above requirements are not necessary

You need the public prosecutor on side and the court. These small islands have very deep relationships in place to ensure these requirements are not necessary. This was all about to go off as hundreds of other cases have gone off before it. Social media, Mr Camerons chat, the International spotlight has been bothersome and caused a hump in the road. Pi**ed off all of em from the local coppers to the high ups in Bangkok.

All are trying desperately to stay on track and "appear"to all to be doing right and lawful actions.

This juggernaut has one chance the way I see it. The British investigative report needs to leaked ASAP. Leak it out pronto then apologise. Works for the Thais as a strategy.

I wouldn't hold out too much hope on the Brit report solving the case. Apart from the investigation failures from Day 1, the best it can show is that the B2 are excluded from the crime scene from DNA non-evidence, but that wouldn't necessarily be conclusive.

Plus it could point to other suspects who could not be excluded from being at the crime scene from the DNA evidence. In that scenario, there could be a diplomatic recommendation for further enquiries and interviews.

Even if any report was accepted, would any action be taken? Apart from trialling the B2?

No I think the report from the UK will make no difference to what the Thai Authorities do. But it will make a big difference on how the world views Thailand

After all the RTP and Thai Authorities took no notice of the previous death of a British lad in Koh Tao under suspicious circumstances where the family in the UK asked the UK police to investigate. http://www.samuitimes.com/parents-convinced-sons-death-koh-tao-murder/

If there are killers on the loose in Koh Tao they are gaining confidence in their ability to do as they want

[stephen terry]

Whether or whether not the Headman's son was on Koh Tao that night, his DNA result (however questionable) excludes him from the crime scene.

Er no it doesn't, all the DNA "proves" he may not have played an actual part in the rape/murders or and left any DNA traces, that doesn't mean he wasn't there and knows exactly what went on, as stated earlier, I am convinced it wasn't this boy who did the dirty deed but "associates" hanger's on or relatives of the family, and all the circus around the the DNA test has provided a distraction away from the real culprit's

the boy didn't need to kill/rape anybody and all the other "evidence" ie the video's, reputably doing a a bunk from KT etc would still fit, and he could be still involved in this, lets face it, if the reputed family is the "mafia" people claim they are, he will not be doing the "dirty work" one of the minions will.

I agree with your sentiments, especially possibly being aware of who was involved, but it would be unreasonable from a police POV to include him as a prime suspect. The absence of matched DNA when there are others' DNA present, would eliminate him in the first instance. The police have to focus on finding DNA matching suspects as a priority.

All this debate is after the horse has bolted, so it is unlikely that any backtracking would take place now the RTP have identified the B2 as their prime suspects. Nothing we can do about it except complain..

[Baerboxer]

In any court (real court) the judge(s) will expect to see evidence that supports the alleged confession. Courts simply do not accept confessions as the be and end all. Many people were convicted based on dodgy confessions in the UK in the 70's which were subsequently overturned. The emergence of DNA testing helped establish innocence in some of these cases.

The have also been many examples of nutters confessing to things they didn't do. A good police force sees a confession as the start for inquiries not the completion. Here, once they have the confession, game over. Very different procedures.

There is no doubt that the Thai Royal police completely messed things up in this particular case. For whatever reason. Even if those Burmese guys were guilty the good lawyer would get them out of jail on technicalities. However, would you accept the verdict in case David and Hannah's parents accepted it as a valid one? Also rumour has it that the British team have obtained the Burmese guys DNA samples as well as son's. I'm certain that the British investigators have already got the results. I don't hear them complaining.

None of us, the people speculating on various sites included, have access to all the evidence, reports, statements etc. The British police, I'm sure. will do their home work. If this goes to trial there will be a verdict, based on evidence presented and hopefully reported on. There will be an inquest early next year in the UK. Hopefully they will provide some consistency or otherwise.

The local prosecutor seems unhappy with the evidence at the moment. The point I was making was that there is a procedural difference regarding confessions between the UK and Thai police. UK police do not stop their investigations once they have a confession until they are sure that confession matches all the other evidence. Thai police seem to focus on the confession and look for evidence to support it. Different approaches.

[Baerboxer]

In any court (real court) the judge(s) will expect to see evidence that supports the alleged confession. Courts simply do not accept confessions as the be and end all. Many people were convicted based on dodgy confessions in the UK in the 70's which were subsequently overturned. The emergence of DNA testing helped establish innocence in some of these cases.

The have also been many examples of nutters confessing to things they didn't do. A good police force sees a confession as the start for inquiries not the completion. Here, once they have the confession, game over. Very different procedures.

There is no doubt that the Thai Royal police completely messed things up in this particular case. For whatever reason. Even if those Burmese guys were guilty the good lawyer would get them out of jail on technicalities. However, would you accept the verdict in case David and Hannah's parents accepted it as a valid one? Also rumour has it that the British team have obtained the Burmese guys DNA samples as well as son's. I'm certain that the British investigators have already got the results. I don't hear them complaining.

None of us, the people speculating on various sites included, have access to all the evidence, reports, statements etc. The British police, I'm sure. will do their home work. If this goes to trial there will be a verdict, based on evidence presented and hopefully reported on. There will be an inquest early next year in the UK. Hopefully they will provide some consistency or otherwise.

The local prosecutor seems unhappy with the evidence at the moment. The point I was making was that there is a procedural difference regarding confessions between the UK and Thai police. UK police do not stop their investigations once they have a confession until they are sure that confession matches all the other evidence. Thai police seem to focus on the confession and look for evidence to support it. Different approaches.

[stephen terry]

Whether or whether not the Headman's son was on Koh Tao that night, his DNA result (however questionable) excludes him from the crime scene.

Er no it doesn't, all the DNA "proves" he may not have played an actual part in the rape/murders or and left any DNA traces, that doesn't mean he wasn't there and knows exactly what went on, as stated earlier, I am convinced it wasn't this boy who did the dirty deed but "associates" hanger's on or relatives of the family, and all the circus around the the DNA test has provided a distraction away from the real culprit's

the boy didn't need to kill/rape anybody and all the other "evidence" ie the video's, reputably doing a a bunk from KT etc would still fit, and he could be still involved in this, lets face it, if the reputed family is the "mafia" people claim they are, he will not be doing the "dirty work" one of the minions will.

I agree with your sentiments, especially possibly being aware of who was involved, but it would be unreasonable from a police POV to include him as a prime suspect (even had he been tested initially). The absence of matched DNA when there are others' DNA present, would eliminate him in the first instance. The police have to focus on finding DNA matching suspects as a priority.

All this debate is after the horse has bolted, so it is unlikely that any backtracking would take place now the RTP have identified the B2 as their prime suspects. Nothing we can do about it except complain..

Edited November 2, 2014 by stephen terry

[Baerboxer]

In any court (real court) the judge(s) will expect to see evidence that supports the alleged confession. Courts simply do not accept confessions as the be and end all. Many people were convicted based on dodgy confessions in the UK in the 70's which were subsequently overturned. The emergence of DNA testing helped establish innocence in some of these cases.

The have also been many examples of nutters confessing to things they didn't do. A good police force sees a confession as the start for inquiries not the completion. Here, once they have the confession, game over. Very different procedures.

There is no doubt that the Thai Royal police completely messed things up in this particular case. For whatever reason. Even if those Burmese guys were guilty the good lawyer would get them out of jail on technicalities. However, would you accept the verdict in case David and Hannah's parents accepted it as a valid one? Also rumour has it that the British team have obtained the Burmese guys DNA samples as well as son's. I'm certain that the British investigators have already got the results. I don't hear them complaining.

None of us, the people speculating on various sites included, have access to all the evidence, reports, statements etc. The British police, I'm sure. will do their home work. If this goes to trial there will be a verdict, based on evidence presented and hopefully reported on. There will be an inquest early next year in the UK. Hopefully they will provide some consistency or otherwise.

The local prosecutor seems unhappy with the evidence at the moment. The point I was making was that there is a procedural difference regarding confessions between the UK and Thai police. UK police do not stop their investigations once they have a confession until they are sure that confession matches all the other evidence. Thai police seem to focus on the confession and look for evidence to support it. Different approaches.

[Heisenberg01]

It's been reported that when the two bodies of the victims returned to the United Kingdom, a Home Office Pathologist conducted an autopsy on the two.

Home Office Pathologist......For none Brits, that means the finest, most qualified pathologists conducted the autopsy. Home office Pathologists are only used on the most serious of murders. They are regarded as the finest pathologists in the world.

If your a Thai member of the law enforcement agencies, that means, you had better have the correct DNA, Toxicology, and cause of death reports present and correct, otherwise this is going to come back and haunt you.

DNA obtained from the two Burmese Accused.

David killed with a hoe???...really???

Date Rate drugs in the blood of Hanna?

THREE samples of unknown DNA on Hanna

Then the British Police with help from the Intelligence Community resources come into play

Phone records, cctv enhancement...the list is long and more important comprehensive and accurate.

I wonder why the Thai Courts won't proceed. We all know why and they are right to be scared.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY

Please point me the way to the report that states an autopsy was performed when the bodies returned home.

As usual, i dont think such a report exists and your making this up to further make your points more valid.

W e all want this resolved with justice for the victims, but there is so much posted on here as fact which is pure speculation its getting ridiculous.

[stephen terry]

It's been reported that when the two bodies of the victims returned to the United Kingdom, a Home Office Pathologist conducted an autopsy on the two.

Home Office Pathologist......For none Brits, that means the finest, most qualified pathologists conducted the autopsy. Home office Pathologists are only used on the most serious of murders. They are regarded as the finest pathologists in the world.

If your a Thai member of the law enforcement agencies, that means, you had better have the correct DNA, Toxicology, and cause of death reports present and correct, otherwise this is going to come back and haunt you.

DNA obtained from the two Burmese Accused.

David killed with a hoe???...really???

Date Rate drugs in the blood of Hanna?

THREE samples of unknown DNA on Hanna

Then the British Police with help from the Intelligence Community resources come into play

Phone records, cctv enhancement...the list is long and more important comprehensive and accurate.

I wonder why the Thai Courts won't proceed. We all know why and they are right to be scared.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY

Please point me the way to the report that states an autopsy was performed when the bodies returned home.

As usual, i dont think such a report exists and your making this up to further make your points more valid.

W e all want this resolved with justice for the victims, but there is so much posted on here as fact which is pure speculation its getting ridiculous.

From the FCO site:

Shortly after the person has died there may be a

post mortem examination in the country concerned

(also known as an autopsy) to determine the cause

of death. In many countries they are carried out as

a matter of course and may well have already taken

place immediately following the death, without the

permission of the next of kin. Our ability to influence

this is very limited. In some countries, there are no

post mortem facilities.

If a post mortem has been carried out overseas,

there may not be the need for one in the UK.

However, this is a decision for the coroner. He or

she may require one in cases of unnatural or violent

death; if there has not been one abroad; if there are

concerns about the identification process; or for

other extenuating circumstances.

It would be reasonable to assume that the coroner exercised his judgement, so while there may not have been an autopsy, there may well have been. I don't think that's speculation, more a probability.

[padsist4]

Why is no one thinking of the parents of these two victims all this speculation is not helping them imagin if it was your child all you would want would be for the real murders to be caught and not have the police fob you off you do not want innocent lives on your conscience .let some real police conduct the enquiries and leave the corrupt police to carry on

[Number 3]

Why is no one thinking of the parents of these two victims all this speculation is not helping them imagin if it was your child all you would want would be for the real murders to be caught and not have the police fob you off you do not want innocent lives on your conscience .let some real police conduct the enquiries and leave the corrupt police to carry on

Quite an assumption mate. Most people are thinking of four sets of parents here and have contributed

to this case.

Some channels of enquiry are found false, others are kept alive, some merely provoke thought. You reckon posters give up their time to contribute as we're all just retired fat white guys having a beer with nothing better to do?

Maybe check out David Millers facebook page whilst you're having your beer and thinking of criticising people who are perhaps contributing in the only way they can.

[draftvader]

JTJ and JD, and a few others.... may very well be employed by the RTP!!! (notice I used the word "may" as in a possibility...a disclaimer so that I might not be sued for defamation). Most people do not understand the complexities of information wars on social media....they are doing "damage control". When they are offered common sense questions and/or speculation/criticism they simply spew from their frothy mouths "name a source", or, "show me the facts", Or, my favorite...."CONSPIRACY THEORY"!!! Fact is...they are losing this battle....because a bear does shit in the woods, and the pope is Catholic. I know you two are having a chuckle at this....wink wink.

I don't think JD is RTP. He has been posting on here for far too long and on such a wide variety of subjects....unless that is literally his entire job "RTP ThaiVisa Poster". JTJ doesn't seem to be RTP, he takes this too personally and disappears every time it looks like the game might be up. Who they are? I don't know but you don't know who I am and I don't know who you are.

I would expect the victims families and the British PM to have an initial report from the MET this week.

When will that report come to public knowledge?

It's certain when its does, Thailand will have to batten down the hatches.

People in charge of this country have not learned about making statements on behalf of other nations.

The British Ambassador in Bangkok was disgustingly quoted as saying he has delighted with the investigation.......LIES

The British Police quoted as "working out of the same textbook".......LIES

Stupid, ignorant statements and not one befitting the Nation of Thailand.

When the British report this case will not only be big news in Thailand, it will be HEADLINE news in every country in the world

The United Kingdom is a fading power for sure, but still has great standing in the world, especially in the detection of crime.

General and Police Chief, this won't go away....please just deal with it , and deal with it in a way befitting of the nation of Thailand. Remember who the real leader of Thailand is.

Agree with everything bar "fading power". The UK is the 6th largest economy in the world and that is after a long and damaging recession. Still some life in the old bird yet!

Please point me the way to the report that states an autopsy was performed when the bodies returned home.

As usual, i dont think such a report exists and your making this up to further make your points more valid.

W e all want this resolved with justice for the victims, but there is so much posted on here as fact which is pure speculation its getting ridiculous.

From the FCO site:

Shortly after the person has died there may be a

post mortem examination in the country concerned

(also known as an autopsy) to determine the cause

of death. In many countries they are carried out as

a matter of course and may well have already taken

place immediately following the death, without the

permission of the next of kin. Our ability to influence

this is very limited. In some countries, there are no

post mortem facilities.

If a post mortem has been carried out overseas,

there may not be the need for one in the UK.

However, this is a decision for the coroner. He or

she may require one in cases of unnatural or violent

death; if there has not been one abroad; if there are

concerns about the identification process; or for

other extenuating circumstances.

It would be reasonable to assume that the coroner exercised his judgement, so while there may not have been an autopsy, there may well have been. I don't think that's speculation, more a probability.

Being that doubts were being aired within 24 hours on many social outlets I think it is a given that there was a completely comprehensive autopsy. What data they were able to retrieve will only come out when Scotland Yard and the UK government are good and ready. That has to be scary for a lot of Thai people. Interesting for them to realise that they are not the centre of the universe and that the views of people in another country might actually have more influence over their country and lives than they previously imagined.

Edited November 2, 2014 by draftvader