DNA results from Ko Tao village head’s son don't match traces on slain British tourists

[BoristheBlade]

One of the biggest pieces of evidence in this case was released and had had few comments, when the present "government" released their personal "assets".

And their Official personal assets at that, I would love to see their actual assets, close family, gardeners, and servants and all.

How does a soldier even a high ranking one obtain the wealth shown?

How does a police man albeit a high ranking one obtain his wealth as shown?

If you traced that wealth back you may have the reason for the lack of proper investigation on Koh Tao and similar incidents in the past.

Edited November 6, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[BoristheBlade]

I agree about the comment about the head man.

A man who has acquired so much wealth from Koh Tao, a man and family who have become very, very wealthy thanks to there hard work and the millions of foreign tourist that pass through there businesses.

Surely if two of his customers had been murdered on there "patch" it would have been fitting for the said Head Man to offer some reward in the capture of the culprits.

Correct me if I am wrong, but at no time have I heard the Head Man give any condolences to the victims.......I must say I find that strange and very sad.

[boomerangutang]

Chris Ware is/was David's friend and was understandably distraught the day following the crime. However, is there any chatter about what he says happened on that night of the crime? If so, what has be been saying? It would be interesting to get another on-the-scene farang's spin on events, rather than just cryptic one-liners from Sean.

[jdinasia]

@t chilli .

Honestly i dont know know.

Like everyone else here dont want innocent to be sentenced if they are inocent .

but i must say it sickens me that also innocent young man is been slandered and publicly&falsely accused & judged and nothing what been said proven will not help just bcase he happens to be from wealthy backround and proud family.

And bcase this is thailand, case has to be rigged and cover up no matter what one says..

Well...

Serves him and his old man right for trying to use the whole 'flash the cash' tactic to prove innocence then doesn't it?

Serves him and his old man right for his old man constantly being at the side of the coppers in every photo of the crime scene doesn't it?

Serves him and his old man right for making a massive song and dance on TV and in the newspapers about the DNA test that should have been done a month earlier but that he had the God-given right to refuse when it would have just been easier to do it at the time... Doesn't it?

If you live by the sword (in this case, money and wealth), you die by the sword (in this case, being fingered for corruption, bribery and trying to use the money to get you out of a situation)

Let's not forget,

Chris Ware is the star witness for Scotland Yard

One picture of Nomsod in the nar that night, and this whole case blasts a vry large crator in the police case

jdinasia has not quite figured out what to say about the Ware brothers,

they may also have pictures of what they called "face police" at the time

imagine that, guys posing as police, because their family is police,

never happens, just as jdinasia ho has all the answers to all questions, as long as they don't point out facts

I am sorry, what were the facts in your post?

[Islandlife]

Ive not seen no pictures? I also pretty shure that he was not in Koh tao that day.

Never heard chris Ware,tell mf more ? Please share with us?

Like said im no expert speaking from my own knowledge! But do admit even best of us sometimes are mistaken and wrong?

[Bleacher Bum East]

@Atomicalandy · 19h19 hours ago

Samui Police to undertake further questioning of Zaw Lin/Win Zaw Tun Koh Tao case at Samui prison 2mrw 9am. Accused lawyers to be present.

This is very interesting.

Although it's something that could be expected in an investigation ...

It raises many questions and has many potential implications.

Or it could be a simple procedural matter.

What the reasons for the visit are and what will be asked and answered we probably will never know.

But I would love to be a fly on the wall.

BTW it does appear that there is a right to remain silent under Thai law ...

http://www.thailandlaw.org/what-should-i-do-if-i-got-arrested-in-thailand.html

[BoristheBlade]

What happens tomorrow in the interview, if the Burmese say they did not do it and in front of the lawyers and police.

After this length of time and no sign of the courts taking the case, the Burmese at the very least must be released on bail.

[AGareth2]

seems they were questioned for 6 hours today

[llz]

According to Andy Hall, the two burmese boys have repeated that they refuse to be accused and that they will plead "non-guilty"

Andy Hall @Atomicalandy · 10m 10 minutes ago

After 6hrs nonstop police questioning KohSamui prison lawyers present accused Zaw Linn/Win Zaw Htun Koh Tao case reiterate 'not guilty' plea

[JLCrab]

Per post #936 I would love for him to be a fly on the wall, too:

[Bleacher Bum East]

Chris Ware is/was David's friend and was understandably distraught the day following the crime. However, is there any chatter about what he says happened on that night of the crime? If so, what has be been saying? It would be interesting to get another on-the-scene farang's spin on events, rather than just cryptic one-liners from Sean.

Despite all the initial statements to the press, the public knows extremely little about what the investigation has consisted of or the results of the investigation.

That’s not a criticism, because the police are not obligated to go public with their methods and results. It’s just a fact.

But there are certain things that you would expect a thorough investigation to have included whether the public was informed of it or not.

One of the key things any investigation should include is the compilation of a timeline of the victims' and accused whereabouts in the 24 hours leading up to the murders (and before if possible).

With respect to Hannah and David, through a combination of witness interviews, CCTV footage, and the victims’ mobile phone ownership records, text messages and call records, at this point any good investigator should know all of the following in great detail:

• Where they were, who they were with, and what happened the night of the murder up until they both ended up on the beach
• Did they arrive on the beach together or separately?
• Was there any conflict with anybody—Farang or Asian tourist/ex-pat, local or visiting Thai, migrant worker, etc.— no matter how minor, the evening of the murder or previous evenings
• Had anybody—Farang or Asian tourist/ex-pat, local or visiting Thai, migrant worker, etc.—shown any unreciprocated interest in Hannah

Presumably, the prosecutor would ask for this information in the file so he doesn't get blindsided by a surprise witness or evidence. Also, checking to see if this has been done, and what the results were, is one of the things the UK investigators did while they were here (not to mention the fact that they could have already put this timeline together themselves). And finally, it is also one of the key things a defense lawyer would investigate in preparing for a trial.

The other key things a thorough investigation would have included are a complete Touch DNA analysis, a second and very thorough "knowing what we know now" review of all CCTV footage and extensive interviews of anyone of interest seen in the footage or who could provide information, canvasing the area around the crime scene for anyone who can identify the running man, etc. on the CCTV footage, forensic analysis of the victims' wounds to determine the nature of the second murder weapon and how much resistance the victims' gave, toxicology analysis--especially of hair for date rape drugs, analysis of the crime scene to determine the direction the attacks came from and how the attacks may have transpired without a huge amount of resistance from Hannah, etc.

We don't know one way or the other if any of this has been done. Like I said, we know extremely little about the investigation at all. If all these things have been done, then whoever did them knows way way more than anyone in the public.

[Neeranam]

I agree about the comment about the head man.

A man who has acquired so much wealth from Koh Tao, a man and family who have become very, very wealthy thanks to there hard work and the millions of foreign tourist that pass through there businesses.

Surely if two of his customers had been murdered on there "patch" it would have been fitting for the said Head Man to offer some reward in the capture of the culprits.

Correct me if I am wrong, but at no time have I heard the Head Man give any condolences to the victims.......I must say I find that strange and very sad.

He was in a photo of Koh Dtao residents having a memorial, which I found rather distasteful giving that his relatives were suspects.

[BoristheBlade]

This whole case seems to revolve around DNA.

DNA is quite a recent discovery, a brilliant one, one more aid to help investigators. But it's just one tool, where are the other tools in the investigation?

The evidence against anyone in this investigation seems very weak, no fingerprints, no witnesses, no motive etc

I find the latter hard to believe, I am sure there were witnesses, there was a motive and not just a sexual one and there must have been other evidence on that scene.

As well as DNA, modern technology including phone records, SMS etc are available....have any of these avenues of investigation been used on this case?

[BoristheBlade]

Ok, well i take that back

He was not a suspect, so as head man, he should have been in attendance.

I agree about the comment about the head man.

A man who has acquired so much wealth from Koh Tao, a man and family who have become very, very wealthy thanks to there hard work and the millions of foreign tourist that pass through there businesses.

Surely if two of his customers had been murdered on there "patch" it would have been fitting for the said Head Man to offer some reward in the capture of the culprits.

Correct me if I am wrong, but at no time have I heard the Head Man give any condolences to the victims.......I must say I find that strange and very sad.

He was in a photo of Koh Dtao residents having a memorial, which I found rather distasteful giving that his relatives were suspects.

[JLCrab]

From Post #941 above: Presumably, the prosecutor would ask for this information in the file so he doesn't get blindsided by a surprise witness or evidence.

From Wikipedia:

Perry Mason is a fictional character, a criminal defense lawyer who was the main character in works of detective fiction written by Erle Stanley Gardner. Perry Mason was featured in more than 80 novels and short stories, most of which had a plot involving his client's murder trial. Typically, Mason was able to establish his client's innocence by implicating another character, who then confessed.

[boomerangutang]

Bleacher Bum East in his post #941 makes some good points. I don't mind saying, I've made the same points in earlier posts. Police investigators have not mentioned much of anything (publicly) regarding all-important scenarios (involving David and Hannah) leading up to the crime, except to say 'they left the bar together and proceeded to make love on the beach....' which, in itself is suspect when looked at in the harsh light of other evidence.

Police are quick and eager to mention scenario-related things, if it implicates the scapegoats, but are mum about anything which might implicate the headman's people who they're shielding. That's why, thus far, there have been gaping omissions in the scenario leading up to the crime, and a bunch of other pertinent things which could move the investigation forward.

I suspect the Burmese will be let off, and that the lion's share of discussions among Thai officialdom is where they go from there. It's a given they want to continue to keep the British bulldogs on a short leash (if they can't silence them, which they'd prefer), because the British experts could blow the cover-up like a grenade under a man-hole cover.

Methinks it's all leading to an inconclusive case, which would simply add to dozens of other inconclusive farang-found-murdered investigations in Thailand's recent history. It might even be too late to bring Ms Porntip in to the fray, because the DNA (and other forensics) has been poorly handled thus far.

[jdinasia]

Again, some people are convicting and defaming people with zero proof.

[boomerangutang]

Again, some people are convicting and defaming people with zero proof.

Perhaps you mean 'pointing the finger of guilt...' or 'accusing...'

I don't have the power to convict anyone of anything. Do you?

[phuketandsee]

BP reporting the prosecutors will decide in one month whether to indict the Burmese. What more can they possibly find out? Outrageous!

[iReason]

Well boris my dear,do some recearch . Funny is when you compare how meny crimes happen in koh samui. Then compare to koh samui. Id imagine even you probably get whats funny.

Your wedding parties go where they and we here at koh still keep recommending koh samui to people and

Was it also funny when this happened in Koh Tao http://www.samuitimes.com/parents-convinced-sons-death-koh-tao-murder/

That Samui article left out an interesting line from the original article:

"She added: “The police didn’t look at his room or the area where he was found. There was no attempt to investigate."

"They spent most of their time laughing and joking as we asked questions.”

And more was omitted;

"Tracy said her son Matt was warned there are “powerful people on the island”, and that the family should leave rather than stirring up trouble."

"They also heard other holidaymakers had died on the island and their bodies “thrown into the water in the hope they’d be washed away”.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

Edited November 6, 2014 by iReason

[DJVillain]

Again, some people are convicting and defaming people with zero proof.

Awwww... Diddums...

Never mind; I am sure they are rich enough not to give a monkeys about what we say or think... They've shown their contempt for everything and everybody through their media show boating...

If there was so much glaring proof it was the two poor (poor being the main word here... both as in bad fortune and also not economically blessed) Burmese lads, then the prosecution could and would have taken the case by now...

But that doesn't matter to you does it... As long as we don't make the RTP 'sad' and as long as high society types aren't being dragged through the mud which they decided to go playing in in the first place...

[SOEYCHANLOY]

"so it is unnecessary to forward the DNA results to the British government"

so this basically confirms the tests were bullshit.

Of Course the DNA Tests are bul<deleted>...

[jdinasia]

Again, some people are convicting and defaming people with zero proof.

Awwww... Diddums...

Never mind; I am sure they are rich enough not to give a monkeys about what we say or think... They've shown their contempt for everything and everybody through their media show boating...

If there was so much glaring proof it was the two poor (poor being the main word here... both as in bad fortune and also not economically blessed) Burmese lads, then the prosecution could and would have taken the case by now...

But that doesn't matter to you does it... As long as we don't make the RTP 'sad' and as long as high society types aren't being dragged through the mud which they decided to go playing in in the first place...

You think a village headman is hi-speed? LOL

[asiamaster]

I have not read many of your posts (or it could be that I have read them but forgotten about them as being inconsequential and insignificant and irrelevant).

judging by the level of your posted topics (bikes and girls and your favourite pastimes ) I can only assume that my comments and posts are beyond your limited comprehension....

Ooooo.... so because I like bikes and girls, I am therefore of limited comprehension? What if I like bikes and am gay, does that make me smarter? Or did this statement just went completely over your head?

Agreed - I aplogise for assuming that your posts were as insignificant and irrelevant to me as mine were to you.

[Eirene]

Anyone remember this story from early on? This from The Independent UK..not sure if I am allowed to link the article. Forget the first paragraph as that clip turned out to be another couple, thus...they did not leave the bar together. I would like to find out more about this beach party with fifty people present. They were found less than 100 metres from where the beach party had been held on Sunday night. The cleaners that found them were there to clean up after the party.

"As officers questioned tourists, locals and foreign workers as part of their inquiry and collected DNA samples, a senior police official said footage from a local bar appeared to show the Britons leaving hand-in-hand at around 1am.

Witnesses have said the two tourists later joined around 50 people for a party on the beach. Police said the CCTV cameras had also captured a single man walking in the same direction."

“This should not have happened in Thailand,” said Mr Prayuth. “It will affect our image in the eyes of international countries.” True!!

Edited November 7, 2014 by Eirene

[asiamaster]

"My intuition and my knowledge of human behaviour just tells me that migrant workers are - for understandable reasons - capable of committing crimes "

Your intuition and knowledge of human behaviour is sadly deficient. My intuition and knowledge tells me that anybody, migrant worker or not, is capable of committing crimes.

Thanks for the compliment. I 'm thinking of filing a complaint with the institution where I got my degree. Oh perhaps I bought my degree because I come from a wealthy family.....

Yes, anybody can commit crimes but in particular when it comes to violent and sexual crimes some are more likely to commit these than others. Firstly there are the ingrained personality traits which differ from person to person. Behaviour is the result of personality traits interacting with environmental factors. Now who would you think would be more likely to commit such a crime? A young lad who can buy all the pussy he wants or a lad stuck in a migrant camp with a bunch of guys?

Once again this is no evidence as it is just about as valid as those posters here that question how the two Burmese guys could have committed such a hideous crime as they look so young and innocent.

You seem to have been around for quite a while Gweiloman so perhaps you remember the cute looking Karen twins from Burma. So young and innocent looking - totally incapable of killing people??

And yes I do question the handling of the case by the Thai police but at the same time I question what is written in the media and the reports by CsiLA and the likes.....

[boomerangutang]

"so it is unnecessary to forward the DNA results to the British government"

so this basically confirms the tests were bullshit.

Of Course the DNA Tests are bulshit...

I think the most recent tests, on Nomsod, were done as well as Thai U facilities were able to do. It's not so much whether the latest tests on the guy were professionally done, it's WHAT THAI OFFICIALS ARE COMPARING THE DNA TO. The DNA types titled "DNA from female victim" are the bigger issue. Who holds those results? Answer: Thai officials, perhaps just one to three of them. Who are they showing those results to? No one, except perhaps the prosecutors, which could explain why the case gets repeatedly sent back to be re-done.

It would also explain why Thai brass won't share DNA results with the British experts. We, the general public, can assume the Brits have their own independently-typed DNA from crime scene, but we don't know for sure, and thus far, the Brits ain't talking. Even if the Brits did have reliable DNA from their own forensics, what would they do if it was clear the Thai cops are lying? (do Thai police ever lie? Ohmagosh, perish the thought!)

In the case of differing DNA results, Brit officials would have clear choices, either....

>>> expose the Thai investigation as a frame-up, including shielding the headman's people,

OR

>>> keep mum about it, as chummy diplomatic relations between UK and Thailand are more important than truth/justice and nabbing the real killers/rapists, and warping the careers of Thai officials ....all the way up the ladder.

[DJVillain]

Again, some people are convicting and defaming people with zero proof.

Awwww... Diddums...

Never mind; I am sure they are rich enough not to give a monkeys about what we say or think... They've shown their contempt for everything and everybody through their media show boating...

If there was so much glaring proof it was the two poor (poor being the main word here... both as in bad fortune and also not economically blessed) Burmese lads, then the prosecution could and would have taken the case by now...

But that doesn't matter to you does it... As long as we don't make the RTP 'sad' and as long as high society types aren't being dragged through the mud which they decided to go playing in in the first place...

You think a village headman is hi-speed? LOL

Where did I use the term high-speed? I've re-read what I typed about 15 times now... just to make sure there was no typo... Nope... I didn't even use the word 'speed' whatsoever... So how you got to me making an assumption or comment like that I will never know...

So... back to your original post... You and others have seemed dead set on convicting and defaming the Burmese lads... Is that alright is it? Because they are poor and cant give people money to help save them? Or they don't know whats going on and have been set up with a pancake selling police 'interpreter' and threatened to have 7 shades of cack kicked out of them if they don't confess?

Seems a little bit sick to think its perfectly fine to point the finger and slander someone who can't defend themselves but back someone up who has enough money to buy an entire court case, alibi and silence anyone that dare speak against them...

Like the kind of kid that used to stand behind the big bully at school...

Big Bully: Gimme all your lunch money or ill punch your lights out

THAT KID: Yeaaah!

Edited November 7, 2014 by DJVillain

[jdinasia]

Pardon "hi -speed" should have been hi-so.

[jdinasia]

Again, some people are convicting and defaming people with zero proof.

Awwww... Diddums...

Never mind; I am sure they are rich enough not to give a monkeys about what we say or think... They've shown their contempt for everything and everybody through their media show boating...

If there was so much glaring proof it was the two poor (poor being the main word here... both as in bad fortune and also not economically blessed) Burmese lads, then the prosecution could and would have taken the case by now...

But that doesn't matter to you does it... As long as we don't make the RTP 'sad' and as long as high society types aren't being dragged through the mud which they decided to go playing in in the first place...

You think a village headman is hi-speed? LOL

Where did I use the term high-speed? I've re-read what I typed about 15 times now... just to make sure there was no typo... Nope... I didn't even use the word 'speed' whatsoever... So how you got to me making an assumption or comment like that I will never know...

So... back to your original post... You and others have seemed dead set on convicting and defaming the Burmese lads... Is that alright is it? Because they are poor and cant give people money to help save them? Or they don't know whats going on and have been set up with a pancake selling police 'interpreter' and threatened to have 7 shades of cack kicked out of them if they don't confess?

Seems a little bit sick to think its perfectly fine to point the finger and slander someone who can't defend themselves but back someone up who has enough money to buy an entire court case, alibi and silence anyone that dare speak against them...

Like the kind of kid that used to stand behind the big bully at school...

Big Bully: Gimme all your lunch money or ill punch your lights out

THAT KID: Yeaaah!

I think you need to see both the definition of defamation legally in Thailand, as well as my position on the 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers.