DNA results from Ko Tao village head’s son don't match traces on slain British tourists

[JLCrab]

That's OK -- I have been told before that I am naive and don't really understand how things work here in Thailand although my first experience in Asia 25 years ago was working at a Ministry in Beijing dealing with Communist Party officials.

[Mooner]

The accusations of some people on here that all of us that believe the B2 are innocent or at least not alone in the act are all tin hat wearers is a joke.

If the RTP have all this perfect evidence why does the prosecution keep sending the case back?

Why have the boys almost reached the maximum holding time under Thai law without this perfect evidence putting them down?

The only conspiracy people are these posters that keep backing the RTP.

[JLCrab]

The accusations of some people on here that all of us that believe the B2 are innocent or at least not alone in the act are all tin hat wearers is a joke.

If the RTP have all this perfect evidence why does the prosecution keep sending the case back?

Why have the boys almost reached the maximum holding time under Thai law without this perfect evidence putting them down?

The only conspiracy people are these posters that keep backing the RTP.

I only came on here when someone wanted someone else to comment on the Guardian article about the 'Dark Side' of KT and that -- at this stage of the game --has nothing better to write about than what people believe and that their beliefs are backed by no tangible evidence.

I often note that when reading this topic that Google AdSense displays ads from 4 and 5 star hotels on KT and that they do not have sufficient clout against a clan that owns a couple of bungalows to get this matter resolved if such clan is behind all this mess.

[simonuk]

The accusations of some people on here that all of us that believe the B2 are innocent or at least not alone in the act are all tin hat wearers is a joke.

If the RTP have all this perfect evidence why does the prosecution keep sending the case back?

Why have the boys almost reached the maximum holding time under Thai law without this perfect evidence putting them down?

The only conspiracy people are these posters that keep backing the RTP.

I only came on here when someone wanted someone else to comment on the Guardian article about the 'Dark Side' of KT and that -- at this stage of the game --has nothing better to write about than what people believe and that their beliefs are backed by no tangible evidence.

I often note that when reading this topic that Google AdSense displays ads from 4 and 5 star hotels on KT and that they do not have sufficient clout against a clan that owns a couple of bungalows to get this matter resolved if such clan is behind all this mess.

You think they are a clan that own " a couple of bungalows" however most on here think they are a very well connected , wealthy and privileged family that runs most of the tourism on a very busy tourist island and very likely heavily involved in extortion , drugs, tax dodging , murder and rape and have been paying off the police.

You're trying to muddy the waters on purpose. I'd go so far as to say your playing a part, however small, in helping the real killers evade justice and makinh sure that innocent boys get framed.

[Neeranam]

I think this thread has run it's course.

[JLCrab]

What I have learned about Thailand and elsewhere is that no matter how powerful and connected someone might be there is always someone with more power and better connections. Given most of the rationale I read about who everybody-knows-who-did-it the waters are easily muddied without any assistance from me.

[Mooner]

I think this thread has run it's course.

Errr! Without a conclusion to the conviction of a guilty party I would disagree.

[boomerangutang]

From the linked 23 NOV Guardian article

A version recounted repeatedly - without any evidence - is that Witheridge had an argument with one of them at a beachside bar run by the family, shortly before the killings ... Several islanders who believe they know who killed Witheridge and Miller have fled. Those who remain stay silent, for good reason

Her's my comment: So lots of people on the island believe that they know who did it but none have come forward with any evidence but those that might have any admissible evidence as to those who may have committed the murders have been co-opted so that they also have and will not come not come forward to implicate those who everyone knows actually dd it.

Not many people are up and partying at the wee hours of the morning. But mainly, if anyone does know anything, they would have to go up against the concerted power of the police, the headman's family/friends, and even the military power brokers in Bangkok. Not to mention they'd have to have a death wish - to speak out. That's quite a lot to go up against.

Is there a silent witness program in Thailand? I doubt it. Even if so, vengeful Thais have ways of finding who spilled the beans, and also have ways of following up in painful ways.

[JLCrab]

From the linked 23 NOV Guardian article

A version recounted repeatedly - without any evidence - is that Witheridge had an argument with one of them at a beachside bar run by the family, shortly before the killings ... Several islanders who believe they know who killed Witheridge and Miller have fled. Those who remain stay silent, for good reason

Her's my comment: So lots of people on the island believe that they know who did it but none have come forward with any evidence but those that might have any admissible evidence as to those who may have committed the murders have been co-opted so that they also have and will not come not come forward to implicate those who everyone knows actually dd it.

Not many people are up and partying at the wee hours of the morning. But mainly, if anyone does know anything, they would have to go up against the concerted power of the police, the headman's family/friends, and even the military power brokers in Bangkok. Not to mention they'd have to have a death wish - to speak out. That's quite a lot to go up against.

Is there a silent witness program in Thailand? I doubt it. Even if so, vengeful Thais have ways of finding who spilled the beans, and also have ways of following up in painful ways.

And what you're saying is that all those forces have been deployed to protect a family member who actually did commit the murders when it may be costing the Thai tourism economy millions of dollars per day in lost revenues and public image.

[boomerangutang]

So he is a conspiracy theorist for not alluding to a conspiracy theorist?

The site is a conspiracy theorist site.

Hmmmm I do certainly reference his site. One that certainly promotes conspiracy theories. Because the conspiracy theorists on this site reference those conspiracies.

One guess, as to what is jdinasia's favorite word - to fling around incessantly.

What happened to this blond hair, was it part of the conspiracy to frame Chris Ware? Or was it really found and one of the killers really did have blond hair?

Like so many other things we heard about in the first 2 days of the investigation, ...we hear nothing more. That includes:

>>> the suspects connected to the headman, who are now scot free

>>> the claim by the headman that his son "returned to Bangkok this morning"

>>> investigation of speedboat operators

>>> why no one leaving the island was checked.

>>> Sean

>>> The 'Stingray Man' with the sharks tooth ring

>>> The football team players

>>> David's shorts purportedly put on by one of the criminals.

>>> We have heard nothing about bloody clothes, nothing about Nomsod's mother, nothing about phone records, nothing about the scenario in the bar prior to the crime, ...the list goes on.

All the dead ends (and obfuscations) further bolster the presumption that Thai officials (and jdinasia) are doing all the can to shield the headman's people.

One reason that the day has not yet arrived that someone has not cracked and provided conclusive non-hearsay evidence is that there IS no such conclusive non-hearsay evidence at least to the culpability of whom everyone-knows-who-did-it.

How do you know one way or the other? If this case was investigated in at least a somewhat adept/professional manner, there would likely be hard evidence. Even at this late date, it may be possible to establish/find some strong evidence of whodonit. However, it's been plain that all efforts by Thai officialdom has been to squelch any evidence which could point to the headman's people as perps. It would not surprise anyone if it's found that Thai officials have destroyed or altered evidence in that regard.

[boomerangutang]

From the linked 23 NOV Guardian article

A version recounted repeatedly - without any evidence - is that Witheridge had an argument with one of them at a beachside bar run by the family, shortly before the killings ... Several islanders who believe they know who killed Witheridge and Miller have fled. Those who remain stay silent, for good reason

Her's my comment: So lots of people on the island believe that they know who did it but none have come forward with any evidence but those that might have any admissible evidence as to those who may have committed the murders have been co-opted so that they also have and will not come not come forward to implicate those who everyone knows actually dd it.

Not many people are up and partying at the wee hours of the morning. But mainly, if anyone does know anything, they would have to go up against the concerted power of the police, the headman's family/friends, and even the military power brokers in Bangkok. Not to mention they'd have to have a death wish - to speak out. That's quite a lot to go up against.

Is there a silent witness program in Thailand? I doubt it. Even if so, vengeful Thais have ways of finding who spilled the beans, and also have ways of following up in painful ways.

And what you're saying is that all those forces have been deployed to protect a family member who actually did commit the murders when it may be costing the Thai tourism economy millions of dollars per day in lost revenues and public image.

not 'a family member', but rather 'two family members' and possibly some of their friends, some of whom may be cops. BTW, has the cop who threatened Sean (morning after) been DNA tested or interviewed?

The primary objective of the headman is to shield his family members from long-term prison or death penalties. It appears he's got some top police officials to assist in that endeavor. That's priority for them. Loss of tourism revenue or public image is a concern, but not paramount. There are priorities at play.

[JLCrab]

That maybe the priority for them on their neck of the woods on Koh Tao but their actions are effecting the tourism industry in the region if not the entire country. I would guess there may be other forces at work saying -- if the locals are really culpable -- to throw the kid/s to the wolves and get this thing fixed before high season hits.

As to how do I know one way or the other? I don't.

Edited November 24, 2014 by JLCrab

[Bleacher Bum East]

I have a few questions for everyone who recites the "wait for the trial" mantra.

1. Is it important to you that justice be completely assured and public safety be completely ensured by the arrest and conviction of everyone involved in Hannah's rape and murder and David's murder?

2. Based on all of the evidence available to the public (including but not limited to the police statements shortly after the forensic autopsy that they believed that more than two attackers where involved in the crime, and the chief of forensics statement that they believed David fought with his attackers) . . . Do you believe there is a decent possibility that more than two people were involved in the crimes---or even a slim possibility?

3. If it is important to you that justice be completely assured and public safety be completely ensured, and you believe that there is even a slim chance that at least one perpetrator is still on the loose, given the horrific nature of the crimes, do you believe the police investigators should still be looking intently for one or more other perpetrators?

4. If you do believe the police should be looking for one or more other perpetrators, then if you were the lead investigator, what primary steps would you be taking right now---that to the public's knowledge the police have not yet taken---to find the other perpetrator(s)?

If your answer to question #1 is yes, then I would challenge you to answer directly questions #2, #3 and #4.

FYI, my questions are not implying in any way that any particular person or persons are additional perpetrators.

PS I don't claim a copyright on these questions . . . anyone can feel free to cut and paste them whenever they see "wait for the trial" being recited.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[tattoodrob]

He wasnt at island, i allready told you.

I know this how? I know him,i would of seen him,hes family would of seen him .

Ive talked him and he truly is up and depressed becase of all this . It has ruined he's life for long time.

Hes uncle gave dna wich happened day after Sean bs. Got cleared ,that would of allready shud cleared him 2 as theiy same blood. Next test was just to silence the media. U guys really think that this goes all the way up and hole system would be jeopedisared bcase of koh tao? Ufos are real then 2.

Talk all you want he didnt do it. And neither had Mon enything to do it either.

His conduct during this time has been scetchy at best.

If it were me I would have held a press conference , sent a message to hanna and David's parents expressing my sadness , released all cctv footage. I would have welcomed the British police and offered myself independant blood testing.

He's done nothing except the bare minimum and even that has been done in a shady way.

u not him are you?

Nope , I'm not him. Most of Thailand does not think I'm a killer rapist.

islandlife?

what you mean,

you know Nomsod and you talk to him?

he call you?

Yes when did he call you,that's very interesting or did you call him?

[Islandlife]

He wasnt at island, i allready told you.

I know this how? I know him,i would of seen him,hes family would of seen him .

Ive talked him and he truly is up and depressed becase of all this . It has ruined he's life for long time.

Hes uncle gave dna wich happened day after Sean bs. Got cleared ,that would of allready shud cleared him 2 as theiy same blood. Next test was just to silence the media. U guys really think that this goes all the way up and hole system would be jeopedisared bcase of koh tao? Ufos are real then 2.

Talk all you want he didnt do it. And neither had Mon enything to do it either.

His conduct during this time has been scetchy at best.

If it were me I would have held a press conference , sent a message to hanna and David's parents expressing my sadness , released all cctv footage. I would have welcomed the British police and offered myself independant blood testing.

He's done nothing except the bare minimum and even that has been done in a shady way.

u not him are you?

Nope , I'm not him. Most of Thailand does not think I'm a killer rapist.

islandlife?

what you mean,

you know Nomsod and you talk to him?

he call you?

Yes when did he call you,that's very interesting or did you call him?

Few weeks after all happened. I Messaged him to stay strong keep chin up and not keep 2 much noise as

Papers allready had decided to believe Sean and accuse hes uncle & him ..

there was so much gossiping in papers when reporters blainly was writing pretty much new story everyday and reporting all sorts of crap ,moust of them not even in Thailand just copying ans pasting bits there bits here. Worst possible

hear say and printed.

[SteveFong]

That maybe the priority for them on their neck of the woods on Koh Tao but their actions are effecting the tourism industry in the region if not the entire country. I would guess there may be other forces at work saying -- if the locals are really culpable -- to throw the kid/s to the wolves and get this thing fixed before high season hits.

As to how do I know one way or the other? I don't.

it is largely doubtful that the "murderers of Koh Tao"

are effecting tourism in any meaningul way,

friends in BKK, are ignoring the issue,

people on facebook are still calling it a good place to dive and asking for hotel and dive shop recommendations, without mention of the "brutal rape on Koh Tao"

the main effect it is having,

is on the psyche of the guilty

and the pressure are applying, mostly on the police

tourism has declined for many other reasons,

this case, unlikely have any real weight

[SteveFong]

He wasnt at island, i allready told you.

I know this how? I know him,i would of seen him,hes family would of seen him .

Ive talked him and he truly is up and depressed becase of all this . It has ruined he's life for long time.

Hes uncle gave dna wich happened day after Sean bs. Got cleared ,that would of allready shud cleared him 2 as theiy same blood. Next test was just to silence the media. U guys really think that this goes all the way up and hole system would be jeopedisared bcase of koh tao? Ufos are real then 2.

Talk all you want he didnt do it. And neither had Mon enything to do it either.

His conduct during this time has been scetchy at best.

If it were me I would have held a press conference , sent a message to hanna and David's parents expressing my sadness , released all cctv footage. I would have welcomed the British police and offered myself independant blood testing.

He's done nothing except the bare minimum and even that has been done in a shady way.

u not him are you?

Nope , I'm not him. Most of Thailand does not think I'm a killer rapist.

islandlife?

what you mean,

you know Nomsod and you talk to him?

he call you?

Yes when did he call you,that's very interesting or did you call him?

Few weeks after all happened. I Messaged him to stay strong keep chin up and not keep 2 much noise as

Papers allready had decided to believe Sean and accuse hes uncle & him ..

there was so much gossiping in papers when reporters blainly was writing pretty much new story everyday and reporting all sorts of crap ,moust of them not even in Thailand just copying ans pasting bits there bits here. Worst possible

hear say and printed.

Islandlife,

he says he knows Mon,

he says he knows Nomsod,

he must also know the headman then, right?

why does Islandlife have Nomsod phone number?

why does Island life know Nomsod?

does islandlife own dive shop that pay headman family?

[SteveFong]

He wasnt at island, i allready told you.

I know this how? I know him,i would of seen him,hes family would of seen him .

Ive talked him and he truly is up and depressed becase of all this . It has ruined he's life for long time.

Hes uncle gave dna wich happened day after Sean bs. Got cleared ,that would of allready shud cleared him 2 as theiy same blood. Next test was just to silence the media. U guys really think that this goes all the way up and hole system would be jeopedisared bcase of koh tao? Ufos are real then 2.

Talk all you want he didnt do it. And neither had Mon enything to do it either.

His conduct during this time has been scetchy at best.

If it were me I would have held a press conference , sent a message to hanna and David's parents expressing my sadness , released all cctv footage. I would have welcomed the British police and offered myself independant blood testing.

He's done nothing except the bare minimum and even that has been done in a shady way.

u not him are you?

Nope , I'm not him. Most of Thailand does not think I'm a killer rapist.

islandlife?

what you mean,

you know Nomsod and you talk to him?

he call you?

Yes when did he call you,that's very interesting or did you call him?

Few weeks after all happened. I Messaged him to stay strong keep chin up and not keep 2 much noise as

Papers allready had decided to believe Sean and accuse hes uncle & him ..

there was so much gossiping in papers when reporters blainly was writing pretty much new story everyday and reporting all sorts of crap ,moust of them not even in Thailand just copying ans pasting bits there bits here. Worst possible

hear say and printed.

Islandlife,

who give you Nomsod new cell phone number?

[simonuk]

From the linked 23 NOV Guardian article

A version recounted repeatedly - without any evidence - is that Witheridge had an argument with one of them at a beachside bar run by the family, shortly before the killings ... Several islanders who believe they know who killed Witheridge and Miller have fled. Those who remain stay silent, for good reason

Her's my comment: So lots of people on the island believe that they know who did it but none have come forward with any evidence but those that might have any admissible evidence as to those who may have committed the murders have been co-opted so that they also have and will not come not come forward to implicate those who everyone knows actually dd it.

Not many people are up and partying at the wee hours of the morning. But mainly, if anyone does know anything, they would have to go up against the concerted power of the police, the headman's family/friends, and even the military power brokers in Bangkok. Not to mention they'd have to have a death wish - to speak out. That's quite a lot to go up against.

Is there a silent witness program in Thailand? I doubt it. Even if so, vengeful Thais have ways of finding who spilled the beans, and also have ways of following up in painful ways.

And what you're saying is that all those forces have been deployed to protect a family member who actually did commit the murders when it may be costing the Thai tourism economy millions of dollars per day in lost revenues and public image.

Yep, pretty stupid aren't they. They had no idea how vile we would find this. And now they are in so deep it's too late to come clean

[SteveFong]

All they have to do,

Is let the Burmese 2 go

then the fury will quickly die down

I read in one of the articles that the headmans family had threatened to sue the RTP over this

That wouldl explain their silence now,

after all,

"everybody knows"

the RTP started all of this pointing to the headmans family

which is why the RTP team on the island was replaced

that was all it really took for the heat to get lowered, directly

this new form of heat, Internet heat, CSI heat,

they will never know how to counter as,

they are in the dark ages on this medium

we on the other hand,

are ready for anything they do, ie., the pathetic attempt to have a guy like islandlife go up against seasoned internet pro's

[SteveFong]

12 man team arrives from Myannmar, including a House Speaker, and forensics team

say hello to my 12 little friends

for some reason, I cannot cut and paste the link

[JLCrab]

Not affecting -tourism in any meaningful way? I've read on here repeatedly that -- as the 2 in custody are not the real killers -- that those who have actually perpetrated the crime will be emboldened and almost certainly strike again.When a month or so ago I mentioned that a good friend from the US who has traveled to Thailand regularly for 25 years had not heard of the murders, I was razzed on here as to how universal was the coverage and the 'power of social media' to cause pain to the Thai economy.

[SteveFong]

I wasn't among the stone throwers towards you Crab

Other than a few hundred regular posters on FB, another few dozen on various other ex pat websites, and the few dozen or so here,

not that many people in BKK really care about this case, that according to a friend who lives there,

additionally,

the people who visit there, the back-packers, the fivers, the druggies and drunkards, aren't visiting social media sites discussing the case

the main effect that has been the direct effect of social media, is embarrassing the RTP, and forcing them to retract their evidence planting ideas, and keeping the psychological pressure on the real killers and rapists on Koh Tao

the drop in tourism is not just to Thailand, it is worldwide,

The Yen has been hit hard,

The Ruble has been hit hard

the Rupee has been hit hard,

the Dollar screaming

the junta not declaring immediate elections and continuation of martial law, with no end in sight

is what is hurting Thailand,

much of their tourism numbers were likely visa runners too, although, to a smaller degree

[JLCrab]

I will still say that the people own and who run the 4 & 5 star resorts on Koh Tao would not be happy knowing that clan-type persons are responsible for the murders and the case is yet to be resolved.

[boomerangutang]

I can't help but grin when I see questions addressed to Islandlife using baby language. I guess it makes sense. If IL insists on using baby language in his/her posts, then responses would more readily be understood if phrased similarly.

Do sown i gud 2 u, lifeofisland? ok rite, no i kno, u me tell.

[SteveFong]

Islandlife has apparently been told to stop talking, in any language

right after I asked him how he got Nomsod's new phone number?

[boomerangutang]

Islandlife has apparently been told to stop talking, in any language

right after I asked him how he got Nomsod's new phone number?

He'll be back. He's probably just studying how to spell long English words with 7+ letters, and how to misspell the little bitty ones.

[SteveFong]

I will still say that the people own and who run the 4 & 5 star resorts on Koh Tao would not be happy knowing that clan-type persons are responsible for the murders and the case is yet to be resolved.

which resorts are those?

and, are they not a part of the same "mafia?"

[boomerangutang]

Islandlife has apparently been told to stop talking, in any language

right after I asked him how he got Nomsod's new phone number?

Interesting you use the word 'new' before 'phone number.' Has there been any word on this? It would fit like a glove, if everyone involved with the headman (friends, family, cops) got new sim cards right after the crime. Doing so would make it difficult (if not impossible) to gauge phone history right after the crime. Well, that's assuming Thai cops even tried looking in to phone history of everyone who might have a connection to the crime. That's probably yet another of the 500 things Thai cops didn't look in to, either because they're intelligence-challenged and/or desperately trying to shield the headman's people.

[boomerangutang]

I will still say that the people own and who run the 4 & 5 star resorts on Koh Tao would not be happy knowing that clan-type persons are responsible for the murders and the case is yet to be resolved.

which resorts are those?

and, are they not a part of the same "mafia?"

It's been reported that there are 4 or 5 mafia-like families on the little island.