DNA results from Ko Tao village head’s son don't match traces on slain British tourists

[jdinasia]

If we want to discuss the big shot resort owners on Samui. I see them as continuing to lay low and hope this blows over a.s.a.p. They probably don't much care who gets convicted or let off, as their priorities are their families and their revenue. That's similar to how it appears the PM oversees things. I imagine when he appointed a replacement head cop to take over the investigation, 2 weeks after the crime (and right after a person came forward who claimed he was offered payment by cops to give false witness testimony) - the message from the PM was likely something like: 'this drawn out investigation is awful for image and tourist numbers. Wrap it up as soon as possible. I don't care and don't want to know if you pull in some Burmese scapegoats, just get a confession, a conviction, and put this whole mess behind us!'

You are aware that "it looks like" "message was something like" are just the build up to a straw man fallacy, right?

You never miss a chance to jump on something, do you. The word 'shrill' comes to mind. If I were to to state things emphatically, then you'd immediately jump up and down saying either, 'show me the press source! No, not the social media source, because that's 100% conspiracy' ...or you might make a thinly-veiled hint that I could be liable for defamation lawsuit.

Preceding statements with 'it looks like' or 'something like' is framing it as a supposition or a conditional statement. Thai-Visa is a forum which closely resembles a discussion using text. In blogs and discussions, people make points using different sentence structure, depending on the situation. Someone once told me that eating bananas makes a person mellow. Methinks you need to eat some bananas.

No

It is semantically the same as using "what he is basically saying is" to then change the entire meaning of what was said.

a half dozen posts earlier, you'll see that DennisF not only backs what I put forth (supported by earlier press release), but goes a few steps further. Because I didn't have the exact phrase of what the PM said, I simply paraphrased it and, it turns out, I got it right. Give it a break, jd. You're so desperate to shield the RTP and the headman's people that you've painted yourself in to a corner, and it's obvious you're uncomfortable being there.

I think you will find that DennisF missed it too

[thailandchilli]

thailandchilli, on 25 Nov 2014 - 11:43, said:

I think most people in society accept the fact that when evidence is tampered with and false information is given to hide the people who committed this crime, then whether thats done now, in the future or immediately after the crime pales into insignificance. Those who refuse to take this as credible even when its stated from an official source are ignorant or part of the conspiracy to hide the truth, no other reason is available.

It would be better to know exactly what evidence was tampered with, DNA, CCTV, phones, blood, fingerprints on the hoe there are so many possibilities, the missing weapon? And the false information given to divert attention. One can only speculate, but its a damning statement and a direct admission from the RTP that an attempted coverup was in progress from the start.

If the case moves on then thats irrelevant, the acts of the cover up have already been done and those responsible should be held accountable. The implications can lead to any number of suspects

It would be better to know exactly what evidence was tampered with, DNA, CCTV, phones, blood, fingerprints on the hoe there are so many possibilities, the missing weapon? And the false information given to divert attention. One can only speculate, but its a damning statement and a direct admission from the RTP that an attempted coverup was in progress from the start.

Agreed, but I don't think we're ever going to learn the truth

Agreed, we can hope that the UK inquest may shed some light, the corner can give a pretty good narrative if he feels justified in doing so. But for the full truth..........doubtful. Its a waiting game for justice.

[IslandLover]

thailandchilli, on 25 Nov 2014 - 13:48, said:thailandchilli, on 25 Nov 2014 - 13:48, said:

All eyes on Samui court 2mrw. Will judge authorize temporarily release on bail of Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo, guaranteed by Myanmar embassy officials?

https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

Things may be starting to happen tomorrow

If you believe in God, karma, justice or power of good, then we should all spare a thought tonight for the scapegoats and the victims families

It seems the Guardian isn't the only U.K. newspaper that has recently had a journalist on Koh Tao, The (London) Times has as well (thanks to the link from Andy Hall). Unfortunately the online version of The Times is subscription only so I can't read the full article but it is talking about racism against the Burmese migrant workers on Koh Tao. I am trying to take out a temporary subscription in order to read the full article and if there is anything of interest I will report it here. I think it is good that the U.K. press (and the quality papers rather than the tabloid rags) is keeping this subject in the public eye.

Edited November 25, 2014 by IslandLover

[changnaam]

I cannot believe nothing has been reported from friends / witnesses / other party goers from "that night"? Did no one really see anything ? Are they scared to speak? Or will it all come out in the uk report in Jan?

[IslandLover]

changnaam, on 25 Nov 2014 - 15:41, said:

I cannot believe nothing has been reported from friends / witnesses / other party goers from "that night"? Did no one really see anything ? Are they scared to speak? Or will it all come out in the uk report in Jan?

I believe there WERE witnesses and they have been told not to say anything by the British authorities until the inquest. This would apply to British witnesses of course and I cannot speak for other nationalities.

[IslandLover]

I have now read the whole of the Times article and it is not saying anything that we don't already know but two quotes stand out from the RTP's version of events:

“The two migrants were drunk and uninhibited,” said a Thai detective. “They saw the couple making love and they got in the mood too.” They struck Mr Miller with a hoe that was lying near by; unconscious and face down in the sandy shallows of the sea, he drowned. They hit Ms Witheridge and began to rape her; when she came to and began to resist, they hit her again and again with the sharp edge of the hoe, splitting open her face and skull."

and

“It was obvious from the method of the killing that it was done by Burmese,” the Thai policeman who led the investigation told me. “Because they are very brutal people. Local people are very friendly.”

The second of the two quotes is the most telling and why many people, including local Thais, believe the B2 are scapegoats.

Source: Richard Lloyd Parry, Koh Tao, Thailand for The Times, 22nd November 2014

Edited November 25, 2014 by IslandLover

[jdinasia]

changnaam, on 25 Nov 2014 - 15:41, said:

I cannot believe nothing has been reported from friends / witnesses / other party goers from "that night"? Did no one really see anything ? Are they scared to speak? Or will it all come out in the uk report in Jan?

I believe there WERE witnesses and they have been told not to say anything by the British authorities until the inquest. This would apply to British witnesses of course and I cannot speak for other nationalities.

Why do you believe there were witnesses?

[uty6543]

changnaam, on 25 Nov 2014 - 15:41, said:

I cannot believe nothing has been reported from friends / witnesses / other party goers from "that night"? Did no one really see anything ? Are they scared to speak? Or will it all come out in the uk report in Jan?

I believe there WERE witnesses and they have been told not to say anything by the British authorities until the inquest. This would apply to British witnesses of course and I cannot speak for other nationalities.

Why do you believe there were witnesses?

Of course there are witnesses not to the murder itself but the events leading up to it. Someone will know where No 9 spent the evening and who with. He should be wanted as one of the last people to see David alive. Maybe one of the British tourists even has a picture of him that shows his face. This is not an inquiry that can be closed until every person that had contact with David or Hanna that evening has been interviewed and cleared.

[JLCrab]

Welcome back to Bangkok, SteveF, however that is Bangkok Thailand and not Little Bangkok restaurant in Miami?

[DennisF]

One can assume, I think, the British and Mynamar authorities are working in tandem.

“U Khin Aung Myint told the Thai premier that this case is important for relations between two countries, said Htoo Chit, a member of the Burmese embassy team following the case.

link:

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-house-speaker-meets-thai-pm-myanmar/46080

[boomerangutang]

Why do you believe there were witnesses?

Sean, for one, though he was allowed to split toot-sweet by Thai authorities, hoped (by them) to never be heard of again. What scenario has Thai officialdom offered for the bar that night? Nothing. Nada. It's as though the place were boarded up with zero activity. Why would Thai officials want us to believe absolutely nothing happened in the bar the night of the crime? Only one answer: it implicates the Headman's people. Edited November 26, 2014 by boomerangutang

[boomerangutang]

Here are some other items Thai officialdom has made no mention of
(though they do mention many other things, like bikinis, and 'it's not possible for a Thai to commit such a crime'):

>>> phone records
>>> bloody clothes
>>> blade wounds to David
>>> how Nomsod gets to and from the island from Bkk

Upon further reflection, if a person wanted to get from KT to Bkk as quick as possible in the wee hours of the morning, how would he go about it? Methinks he would hire a speedboat to Hua Hin, and then take a taxi or hired van. Have Thai cops looked in to any of those possibilities? If so, it's just another of a very long list of things (in this case) Thai officials have either not researched, or want stuffed. The family certainly knows speedboat drivers. Phone records would shed light on that, but cops don't want anything to do with phone records - of anyone.

[thailandchilli]

So back home from the school run and what should I be doing? Yep some work but instead this case has distracted me again because of the injustice and corruption of it all, welcome to a new day in Thailand and the anticipation that the B2 may get bail today.

[thailandchilli]

One can assume, I think, the British and Mynamar authorities are working in tandem.

“U Khin Aung Myint told the Thai premier that this case is important for relations between two countries, said Htoo Chit, a member of the Burmese embassy team following the case.

link:

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-house-speaker-meets-thai-pm-myanmar/46080

Indeed, it would be very surprising had they not had a few closed door meetings behind the scenes to discuss the best way to put pressure on the Thai authorities in this case.

The diplomatic pressure at this point however is really at the highest stage it can go without ratcheting it up and causing lasting damage.

That's quite a team the Burmese side have put together for this and threatening that this may affect relations between Burma and Thailand is a strong statement. Keep it up!!

[uty6543]

So back home from the school run and what should I be doing? Yep some work but instead this case has distracted me again because of the injustice and corruption of it all, welcome to a new day in Thailand and the anticipation that the B2 may get bail today.

I sincerely hope that they do not get bail today.

Why would a prosecutor even consider allowing bail to murder suspects unless he knows that he does not have sufficient evidence to take the case to trial

I hope they are released with charges dropped so they can get on with their lives.

[BritTim]

...if a person wanted to get from KT to Bkk as quick as possible in the wee hours of the morning, how would he go about it?

Speedboat to Koh Samui and a chartered flight (expensive, but very quick). However, one might want to use a more stealthy approach. In that case, one might avoid a charter where the pilot would certainly remember you.

[jdinasia]

Why do you believe there were witnesses?

Sean, for one, though he was allowed to split toot-sweet by Thai authorities, hoped (by them) to never be heard of again. What scenario has Thai officialdom offered for the bar that night? Nothing. Nada. It's as though the place were boarded up with zero activity. Why would Thai officials want us to believe absolutely nothing happened in the bar the night of the crime? Only one answer: it implicates the Headman's people.

Sean has stated he is not a witness.

So far no evidence of anything happening in the bar that night has been presented. Your obsession with "the headman's people" is more telling about you than the Investigation.

Edited November 26, 2014 by jdinasia

[balo]

If we had enough witnesses in this murder case it would have been solved a long time ago,

it's the lack of witnesses and CCTV cameras that leads to all the rumors and conspiracies.

[thailandchilli]

For anyone to believe theres no witness's who have information that can shed light on these murders is dumb or blind. A witness does not need to be at the scene of the crime or anywhere near it for that matter. Chris Ware and any other of the Brits who were in the group with Hannah or David will have been prime witness's for events leading up to this where clues and leads are then followed on.

Sean is a wild card, I can't make him out yet in his honesty or sincerity? Although it is clear he was scared of Mon and a local RTP who followed him into the shop while he coward behind the counter. The facial expressions on Mon and the RTP looked menacing. Getting out of KT was a very wise move for him.

None of the above witness's can make a public statement until after the Inquest in the UK. Even then I would expect that out of respect for the families they would seek their approval first (aside from Sean who apparently has given an interview to the Daily Mail which cannot be published yet)

As for local Thai witness's, try a few of those who tried to destroy evidence and give false information

Edited November 26, 2014 by thailandchilli

[boomerangutang]

If we had enough witnesses in this murder case it would have been solved a long time ago,

it's the lack of witnesses and CCTV cameras that leads to all the rumors and conspiracies.

There are things which the Thai, Brit and Burmese investigators know, which we don't know. I would venture to say '....which we don't yet know,' ....but that's assuming investigators will be open with the public. Thus far, the Brits haven't announced anything, and Thai officials have only announced questionable 'facts' - except during the first days of the investigation, when they were doing a quasi-professional job of finding the real culprits. The biggest conspiracy of the whole mess is Thai officials, aided a bit by some posters on this forum.

Why do you believe there were witnesses?

Sean, for one, though he was allowed to split toot-sweet by Thai authorities, hoped (by them) to never be heard of again. What scenario has Thai officialdom offered for the bar that night? Nothing. Nada. It's as though the place were boarded up with zero activity. Why would Thai officials want us to believe absolutely nothing happened in the bar the night of the crime? Only one answer: it implicates the Headman's people.

Sean has stated he is not a witness. So far no evidence of anything happening in the bar that night has been presented. Your obsession with "the headman's people" is more telling about you than the Investigation.

It's almost funny. Now, you believe what Sean says (purportedly; "I was not a witness"), yet other times you'll refute what he says, if it's anything which might implicate the headman's people. He also said "David was very brave that night in trying to protect Hannah." Do you believe that also? If so, then he was a witness or at least privy to what transpired.

Sean also said the two men (Mon and his cop friend) threatened him if he (Sean) were to tell anyone what he knows about the crime. Do you also believe Sean in that scenario?

I can answer for you, if you'd like. You'll only believe Sean if what he says doesn't implicate the headman's people in the crime. Contrarily, anything he might say which implicates them, you'll refute and/or claim he's a degenerate, so not worth listening to.

[greenchair]

Are they seeking bail today?

[jdinasia]

If we had enough witnesses in this murder case it would have been solved a long time ago,

it's the lack of witnesses and CCTV cameras that leads to all the rumors and conspiracies.

There are things which the Thai, Brit and Burmese investigators know, which we don't know. I would venture to say '....which we don't yet know,' ....but that's assuming investigators will be open with the public. Thus far, the Brits haven't announced anything, and Thai officials have only announced questionable 'facts' - except during the first days of the investigation, when they were doing a quasi-professional job of finding the real culprits. The biggest conspiracy of the whole mess is Thai officials, aided a bit by some posters on this forum.

Why do you believe there were witnesses?

Sean, for one, though he was allowed to split toot-sweet by Thai authorities, hoped (by them) to never be heard of again. What scenario has Thai officialdom offered for the bar that night? Nothing. Nada. It's as though the place were boarded up with zero activity. Why would Thai officials want us to believe absolutely nothing happened in the bar the night of the crime? Only one answer: it implicates the Headman's people.

Sean has stated he is not a witness. So far no evidence of anything happening in the bar that night has been presented. Your obsession with "the headman's people" is more telling about you than the Investigation.

It's almost funny. Now, you believe what Sean says (purportedly; "I was not a witness"), yet other times you'll refute what he says, if it's anything which might implicate the headman's people. He also said "David was very brave that night in trying to protect Hannah." Do you believe that also? If so, then he was a witness or at least privy to what transpired.

Sean also said the two men (Mon and his cop friend) threatened him if he (Sean) were to tell anyone what he knows about the crime. Do you also believe Sean in that scenario?

I can answer for you, if you'd like. You'll only believe Sean if what he says doesn't implicate the headman's people in the crime. Contrarily, anything he might say which implicates them, you'll refute and/or claim he's a degenerate, so not worth listening to.

Sean, when outside the reach of anyone on Koh Tao clarified his statement.

You cherry pick statements from the RTP to fit the world view of a conspiracy theorist.

[mcm991]

@JD... help me out here for a sec. I know it is late in the game but just to be clear on the rules......

As far as you are concerned:

Anything stated by the RTP and not modified or denied afterwards = FACT.

Anything else = CONSPIRACY

Thanks. I would appreciate your clarification for my own understanding.

[StealthEnergiser]

@JD help me out here for a sec please answer these 2 or 3 questions

Was you on the scene there when the murders occurred ?

Are you a Police officer ?

If no to both

3 Why should people listen to your biased conspiracy theories ?

[jabis]

@JD... help me out here for a sec. I know it is late in the game but just to be clear on the rules......

As far as you are concerned:

Anything stated by the RTP and not modified or denied afterwards = FACT.

Anything else = CONSPIRACY

Thanks. I would appreciate your clarification for my own understanding.

Seems you forgot that he now refutes even the RTP statements he doesn't like/won't support his case - anyways

[expat_4_life]

Latest development (https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy)

Samui court just rejected bail request of Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo (Koh Tao case accused), citing serious nature of offenses and high penalty.

Is it now 3 extensions of detainment remaining? A trial looms closer.

[uty6543]

Latest development (https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy)

Samui court just rejected bail request of Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo (Koh Tao case accused), citing serious nature of offenses and high penalty.

Is it now 3 extensions of detainment remaining? A trial looms closer.

Bad news. I feel so sorry for these 2 young men. I cannot imaging what it must be like for them waiting for this nightmare to end. Edited November 26, 2014 by uty6543

[AGareth2]

supose the gaol birds were a flight risk

[thailandchilli]

Latest development (https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy)

Samui court just rejected bail request of Zaw Lin/Wai Phyo (Koh Tao case accused), citing serious nature of offenses and high penalty.

Is it now 3 extensions of detainment remaining? A trial looms closer.

So the judge failed to take into account the numerous other Thai murder suspects who have been granted bail before in past cases. The judge also ignored the prosecutions statement that they do not oppose bail. The judge also ignored the international concern and instead made the legal judgement to refuse bail.

I wonder if the judge holds the same view as one of the investigating RTP

“It was obvious from the method of the killing that it was done by Burmese,” “Because they are very brutal people. Local people are very friendly.” (Times)

So looks like the B2 will be entering the lions den God help them and God help the defense team, I hope they are able to convince the judge about all the major inconsistances and cover ups in this sham

[maxme]

If we had enough witnesses in this murder case it would have been solved a long time ago,

it's the lack of witnesses and CCTV cameras that leads to all the rumors and conspiracies.

Yes because RTP has a good track record when it comes to solving crimes. Take the Sondhi case for example. Do you two really believe that the RTP has done a swell job so far or do you just don't like the Burmese?