DNA results from Ko Tao village head’s son don't match traces on slain British tourists

[thailandchilli]

According to the Foreign & Commonwealth Office (FCO) approximately 60 UK citizens are murdered overseas each year. Let's hope in the future maybe the same concern and support of the international community can be shown to the other 58 whether they occur under suspicious circumstances or not.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-office-sets-out-support-for-british-nationals-overseas

Whilst every murder is a tragedy for the family concerned in most murder cases it is clear from the beginning who the murderer is and if the local police conduct a proper investigation there is no need for the international community to intrude into matters that don't concern them. I think it is best to let the family come to terms with their loss and grieve in their own way.

But when a murder is as horrific as this one and the investigation is a farce from the moment the bodies are found I think it is right that people should become involved to put pressure on those involved in the investigation, their superiors and their government in the hope that justice can be served.

The UK has a defined process for the investigation of murder of UK citizens and t is initiated by a member of the immediate family expressing dissatisfaction with the ongoing investigation. The pressure exerted at least by the UK government might have occurred with or without the attendant publicity. Whether the blosphere will ultimately affect the outcome of the Thai government's actions is too early to tell.

After your numerous posts on the subject we get your point and your views thank you

[JLCrab]

Thank you. I wouldn't want to stand in the way of the blogosphere / social media's self-congratulations.

[DennisF]

Holy Cow!

Try to keep your emotions in check.

Posters will begin to suspect you're human !

[transam]

According to the Foreign & Commonwealth Office (FCO) approximately 60 UK citizens are murdered overseas each year. Let's hope in the future maybe the same concern and support of the international community can be shown to the other 58 whether they occur under suspicious circumstances or not.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-office-sets-out-support-for-british-nationals-overseas

Whilst every murder is a tragedy for the family concerned in most murder cases it is clear from the beginning who the murderer is and if the local police conduct a proper investigation there is no need for the international community to intrude into matters that don't concern them. I think it is best to let the family come to terms with their loss and grieve in their own way.

But when a murder is as horrific as this one and the investigation is a farce from the moment the bodies are found I think it is right that people should become involved to put pressure on those involved in the investigation, their superiors and their government in the hope that justice can be served.

The UK has a defined process for the investigation of murder of UK citizens and t is initiated by a member of the immediate family expressing dissatisfaction with the ongoing investigation. The pressure exerted at least by the UK government might have occurred with or without the attendant publicity. Whether the blosphere will ultimately affect the outcome of the Thai government's actions is too early to tell.

After your numerous posts on the subject we get your point and your views thank you

Wasn't his daughter eh..............

[DennisF]

@ transam

That comment is as low as they get.

Shame on you.

[uty6543]

@ transam

That comment is as low as they get.

Shame on you.

When I read transam's post it gave me goose bumps. I don't know why exactly but I guess it is because there but for the grace of God any one of us could be one of the grieving parents. I took his post to mean the poster he was referring to should think before he posted.

[DennisF]

@ transam

That comment is as low as they get.

Shame on you.

When I read transam's post it gave me goose bumps. I don't know why exactly but I guess it is because there but for the grace of God any one of us could be one of the grieving parents. I took his post to mean the poster he was referring to should think before he posted.

Then he should have said that instead of making snide insensitive remarks.

I've had my differences with JLCrab but never found him to attack personally, he adds to the discussion

and posts relevant ant interesting links.

I could go on but... best not...

[thailandchilli]

Back on topic

Sometimes adding some emotion into the thread reminds people of the suffering that some people are still going through after having lost their own children and the reason we are helping as much as we can in our own little way

This from Sue, Ian and Michael Miller

"Our thoughts are also with the Ware family and any other innocents that have been hurt by harassment and wrongful accusation.

"We have been overwhelmed by the breadth and depth of support provided to us by so many here in Jersey and also by people far away."

Edited December 1, 2014 by thailandchilli

[DennisF]

Back on topic

Sometimes adding some emotion into the thread reminds people of the suffering that some people are still going through after having lost their own children and the reason we are helping as much as we can in our own little way

This from Sue, Ian and Michael Miller

"Our thoughts are also with the Ware family and any other innocents that have been hurt by harassment and wrongful accusation.

"We have been overwhelmed by the breadth and depth of support provided to us by so many here in Jersey and also by people far away."

I agree and those families musty be going through absolute hell.

The practical posts do balance things for us though as emotions alone will derail the efforts.

I have to confess to being driven by 80% emotion and 10% hope and 10% practicality.

Not the best balance.

[transam]

@ transam

That comment is as low as they get.

Shame on you.

Heey, if it were your daughter, my daughter, HIS daughter, shit would happen, THAT is my point...........".Not my daughter so why care"................Noooooooooooo shame here, just look for the fuggs.

[JLCrab]

I have no idea whether these crimes were committed by those in custody, those who everyone thinks they know who did it, or maybe some person or persons that haven't even been mentioned. I look at the process that was taken especially involving the UK government and I hazard the guess that -- when all is settled to what ever extent it is settled -- the part that was played by those online at Facebook, or Twitter, or ThaiVisa, or any other online medium will be a whole lot less than people here have no problem in proclaiming.

[DennisF]

I have no idea whether these crimes were committed by those in custody, those who everyone thinks they know who did it, or maybe some person or persons that haven't even been mentioned. I look at the process that was taken especially involving the UK government and I hazard the guess that -- when all is settled to what ever extent it is settled -- the part that was played by those online at Facebook, or Twitter, or ThaiVisa, or any other online medium will be a whole lot less than people here have no problem in proclaiming.

You may well be correct but, the day that people stop striving for justice, regardless of the media they use, the sooner

we all become puppets and zombies.

The only thing that stops absolute power by those who consider themselves to be superior is the voice and actions of

ordinary people.

So, whilst the efforts of the online community may be irrelevant to the outcome of the case, it has sent a very clear message

from many Thai people that they are not satisfied with how things are done.

That in itself may bring poisitive changes for the Thai population.

Lets hope so, and keep our keyboards tapping in the attempt, even if futile, to get justice for these two innocent young people.

[JLCrab]

I have no idea whether these crimes were committed by those in custody, those who everyone thinks they know who did it, or maybe some person or persons that haven't even been mentioned. I look at the process that was taken especially involving the UK government and I hazard the guess that -- when all is settled to what ever extent it is settled -- the part that was played by those online at Facebook, or Twitter, or ThaiVisa, or any other online medium will be a whole lot less than people here have no problem in proclaiming.

You may well be correct but, the day that people stop striving for justice, regardless of the media they use, the sooner

we all become puppets and zombies.

The only thing that stops absolute power by those who consider themselves to be superior is the voice and actions of

ordinary people.

So, whilst the efforts of the online community may be irrelevant to the outcome of the case, it has sent a very clear message

from many Thai people that they are not satisfied with how things are done.

That in itself may bring poisitive changes for the Thai population.

Lets hope so, and keep our keyboards tapping in the attempt, even if futile, to get justice for these two innocent young people.

maybe have little problem discounting

You assume that the voice of the people has been heard and not just noise. While many have posted relevant information there has been so much fabricated, hypothetical, and totally wrong information that those in power have no problem discounting 98% of what is written. So whether justice has or will be achieved or not IMHO doesn't necessarily depend on the shrill voice that comes from a good portion of what you would call the voice of the people.

[DennisF]

I have no idea whether these crimes were committed by those in custody, those who everyone thinks they know who did it, or maybe some person or persons that haven't even been mentioned. I look at the process that was taken especially involving the UK government and I hazard the guess that -- when all is settled to what ever extent it is settled -- the part that was played by those online at Facebook, or Twitter, or ThaiVisa, or any other online medium will be a whole lot less than people here have no problem in proclaiming.

You may well be correct but, the day that people stop striving for justice, regardless of the media they use, the sooner

we all become puppets and zombies.

The only thing that stops absolute power by those who consider themselves to be superior is the voice and actions of

ordinary people.

So, whilst the efforts of the online community may be irrelevant to the outcome of the case, it has sent a very clear message

from many Thai people that they are not satisfied with how things are done.

That in itself may bring poisitive changes for the Thai population.

Lets hope so, and keep our keyboards tapping in the attempt, even if futile, to get justice for these two innocent young people.

maybe have little problem discounting

You assume that the voice of the people has been heard and not just noise. While many have posted relevant information there has been so much fabricated, hypothetical, and totally wrong information that those in power have no problem discounting 98% of what is written. So whether justice has or will be achieved or not IMHO doesn't necessarily depend on the shrill voice that comes from a good portion of what you would call the voice of the people.

Agreed, lots of chaff and very little wheat.

The reason I believe the powers that be, (however temporary!), have been made aware of the wheat is their

strenuous efforts to publicly discount it, even having press conferences about it, their attempts to have the fb page closed,

the inconsistencies that have been highlighted and their attempts to explain them ( the phone is 1 example).

I believe there is also a possibility that the prosecutioon team have been reluctant to go ahead with the trial because of the

international/media pressure.

The international press, not just the tabloids, are reporting this case most days and are quoting what they see as the wheat from social media sites.

So, shrill as many voices are, together the do appear to have had an effect on the proceedings at least.

Whether justice is actually achieved, I agree the forums and social media sites will not necessarily figure in it.

If the voiciferous support for the cause gives their families a little comfort though, it will have been well worth the efforts of everyone.

I dont think anyone who has lived in Thailand for any length of time really believes that a forum like this will make any difference at all,

we are farangs in the main and therefore without status or importance.

[mcm991]

No idea if Social Media will ultimately alter the course or not.

I am convinced that it has made a difference in this case insofar as the prosecutor has rejected the case numerous times.

That would NEVER normally happen in the good old days when guilt or innosense made no difference at all to the outcome.

It may not this time either.... but a lot more clenched butt cheeks in the Land of Officialdom over this one - I believe because of the Social Media outrage.

Hopefully, every time gets a little better........

[boomerangutang]

I'm only 2 or 3 hours drive and then ferry from Samui, my daughter is on school holidays from the 12th Dec so presuming its not too late, then in the holidays I will make a trip to visit a colleague in Samui and also see if its possible to visit the B2. I'm sure if I tweet Andy Hall he will let me know the procedure for making a visit. I'd be happy to bring with me any messages for them from anyone on here.

I doubt you will be able to get to see them but if you do you can say tell them :-

I and 99% of the farang community belive in their innocence and we will keep doing what ever we can to secure their release. Every day since their arrest I have thought of their plight and hope they will be home with their family soon.

Peter Smith

Sakon Nakhon

Thank you, message will be delivered if its possible if the timing is ok and I can get there before the case is over. I see no reason why even if I'm not allowed to see them then the very least I can do is hand them messages via the lawyer or Andy Hall. I will take a photo of delivery.

I tried taking an open box of books to donate to some inmates are a prison near me in northern Thailand. Guards wouldn't even let me do that, saying I had to be a relative or close friend of one (I wasn't). Even so, I hope you're able to visit the Burmese (apologies to the PM for mentioning the word 'Burmese').

You can add my best wishes and hopes for a fair, objective trial. I completely understand why they want to return to their home villages in Burma if allowed to. Thai authorities have been gravely unfair to them and it stinks of racism. ChiangRai Ken.

[JLCrab]

Without doing another nested quote, I would like to think that the reason that the District prosecution team has been unwilling to-date to move forward with this case is that they are honest people and good lawyers and do not wish to proceed with a case that they believe will lack sufficient credibility and that such decision has been made on the merits of the case and not because of pressure or publicity from any source. Call me naive on that one if you like.

[DennisF]

Without doing another nested quote, I would like to think that the reason that the District prosecution team has been unwilling to-date to move forward with this case is that they are honest people and good lawyers and do not wish to proceed with a case that they believe will lack sufficient credibility and that such decision has been made on the merits of the case and not because of pressure or publicity from any source. Call me naive on that one if you like.

I think virtually every poster on this thread would like to think that.

Its only history that suggests otherwise, regarding honesty and integrity.

Naive? No. Optimist, possibly.

[falangjim]

I have to admit, when I click the TVF news thread and see these topics of the Koh Tao murders and the stitch up of the 2 Burmese boys still burning the top of the page, I get some hope.

I'm a bit past my prime, but have been following this case daily since the 15th of September. The case has become a part of me, (I think I read 4 or 5 different news sources to try and get some perspectives) I have to hold back sometimes when I am off the keyboard, at work, around friends and family, about bringing up this tragic event for fear of being called nuts. But it's affected me like nothing I can remember. The total disregard for due process, the insensitivity of the baboons in power, the obvious covering up, the stitch up, the hot potato game with the report: I'm appalled beyond words, and some days, I'm ashamed to call Thailand my home.

Everyone on this thread brings with them some 'knowledge' of the case. And everyone infuses emotion into it, too. Who knows if anything written or spoken is enough to convince the thick bricks in charge that saving face is not as important as imprisoning or executing more innocent people. They've received their portion of the money to keep silent. What thief returns the item once they've succeeded in stealing it? Not many, I presume.

But again, a small part of me rejoices seeing these topics head the news on Thai Visa.

Edited December 1, 2014 by falangjim

[thailandchilli]

No idea if Social Media will ultimately alter the course or not.

I am convinced that it has made a difference in this case insofar as the prosecutor has rejected the case numerous times.

That would NEVER normally happen in the good old days when guilt or innosense made no difference at all to the outcome.

It may not this time either.... but a lot more clenched butt cheeks in the Land of Officialdom over this one - I believe because of the Social Media outrage.

Hopefully, every time gets a little better........

100% agree

I think its already been proven that social media has made a difference in this case, in my opinion its a huge difference, but so far as giving an example of a couple of the reasons why I think so.

Hannah'a phone, who the RTP claimed was found behind the B2's bungalow. Another mistake by the RTP? They quickly changed their story when social media pointed out in many posts that Hannah's phone was actually already handed in by one of her friends to the RTP and not found behind the bungalow at all. To back up their claim they cited video and photo evidence of this. Immediately after the RTP said, actually its not Hannah's phone we found it was David's. Hardly a coincidence.

Another example is that social media was directly responsible for the DNA spectacular by Nomsod and daddy in Bangkok. Even the RTP admitted this was staged because of all the speculation on social media. The stunt backfired on them when they openly declared that the UK police were happy with the investigation and as such do not need the DNA samples.

Those who claim that protesting at the corruption involved in this case does no good. Ok so thats you, roll over guys, your silence reinforces those who are responsible for the coverups to carry on.

We only have the power via internet in Thailand, nothing else, we cannot demonstrate, the NCPO has blocked that. Demonstrations have taken place in other countries however.

No matter what difference we can make even if it is only marginally better than doing nothing at all, then its worth it.

Edited December 1, 2014 by thailandchilli

[T_Dog]

I've posted this before, but as another poster put so well: "The murders were horrific, but to put two innocent men to the sword is the stuff of pure evil."

[changnaam]

I've posted this before, but as another poster put so well: "The murders were horrific, but to put two innocent men to the sword is the stuff of pure evil."

The issue is the lack of motivation to investigate:

cctv evidence

Telephone network evidence

Forensics

Interviewing possible witnesses

Evidence at scene

Since the team were changed no one has done any investigation which has been reported.

[jdinasia]

I have no idea whether these crimes were committed by those in custody, those who everyone thinks they know who did it, or maybe some person or persons that haven't even been mentioned. I look at the process that was taken especially involving the UK government and I hazard the guess that -- when all is settled to what ever extent it is settled -- the part that was played by those online at Facebook, or Twitter, or ThaiVisa, or any other online medium will be a whole lot less than people here have no problem in proclaiming.

You may well be correct but, the day that people stop striving for justice, regardless of the media they use, the sooner

we all become puppets and zombies.

The only thing that stops absolute power by those who consider themselves to be superior is the voice and actions of

ordinary people.

So, whilst the efforts of the online community may be irrelevant to the outcome of the case, it has sent a very clear message

from many Thai people that they are not satisfied with how things are done.

That in itself may bring poisitive changes for the Thai population.

Lets hope so, and keep our keyboards tapping in the attempt, even if futile, to get justice for these two innocent young people.

maybe have little problem discounting

You assume that the voice of the people has been heard and not just noise. While many have posted relevant information there has been so much fabricated, hypothetical, and totally wrong information that those in power have no problem discounting 98% of what is written. So whether justice has or will be achieved or not IMHO doesn't necessarily depend on the shrill voice that comes from a good portion of what you would call the voice of the people.

There are also indications in many online posts that there's less concern about this crime and much more with police in general and specifically the post - coup police. Lots of political unhappiness by a very vocal minority

[Krenjai]

For the ones who followed the OJ case, the similarities are scary!

OJ:

1) a bloody trail from the murder scene to his house was indisputable

2) a car full with blood spatters and walkway

3) a DNA match with his blood & DNA of Nicole & Ron was found (not tampered)

4) a knife was missing from a knife box

5) a matching bloody shoe prints in the walkway at Nicole's

6) a bloody glove at his estate and bloody socks in the bedroom

7) a cut at his finger

8) an escape attempt in the Bronco

B2:

1) NO bloody trail from the murder scene to their room

2) NO room full with blood spatters, not even a tiny single drop was found

3) NO DNA match the first round, 2nd DNA round in 12 hours??

4) NO 2nd murder weapon was ever found, NO DNA on the hoe from David

5) NO matching foot prints in the sand

6) NO bloody clothes at their room, nothing, they were sleeping like baby's

7) NO cuts, bruises at them at all, yeah makes sense too. David versus Goliath

8) NO escape attempt from Koh Tao for two weeks!

The crazy thing, OJ got off the hook due to his brilliant lawyers "dream-team" who managed to convince a not too bright jury non tampered DNA was tampered with. The scary thing, the B2 will not have a dream-team, there will be no jury, and the Thai court will probably convict on tampered DNA!

It is very worrying these guys could be put to death by lethal injection (soon)!

Welcome to Thailand the land of smiles!

Edited December 1, 2014 by Krenjai

[thailandchilli]

I'm only 2 or 3 hours drive and then ferry from Samui, my daughter is on school holidays from the 12th Dec so presuming its not too late, then in the holidays I will make a trip to visit a colleague in Samui and also see if its possible to visit the B2. I'm sure if I tweet Andy Hall he will let me know the procedure for making a visit. I'd be happy to bring with me any messages for them from anyone on here.

I doubt you will be able to get to see them but if you do you can say tell them :-

I and 99% of the farang community belive in their innocence and we will keep doing what ever we can to secure their release. Every day since their arrest I have thought of their plight and hope they will be home with their family soon.

Peter Smith

Sakon Nakhon

Thank you, message will be delivered if its possible if the timing is ok and I can get there before the case is over. I see no reason why even if I'm not allowed to see them then the very least I can do is hand them messages via the lawyer or Andy Hall. I will take a photo of delivery.

I tried taking an open box of books to donate to some inmates are a prison near me in northern Thailand. Guards wouldn't even let me do that, saying I had to be a relative or close friend of one (I wasn't). Even so, I hope you're able to visit the Burmese (apologies to the PM for mentioning the word 'Burmese').

You can add my best wishes and hopes for a fair, objective trial. I completely understand why they want to return to their home villages in Burma if allowed to. Thai authorities have been gravely unfair to them and it stinks of racism. ChiangRai Ken.

Yes I'm beginning to think it wont be possible to see the B2 personally. But I'm sure I can plan it somehow to deliver the messages and a few goodies to the lawyer to hand over. I may even contact the Samui Times to let them know of my intentions. It won't just be me going.

[Anthony5]

I'm only 2 or 3 hours drive and then ferry from Samui, my daughter is on school holidays from the 12th Dec so presuming its not too late, then in the holidays I will make a trip to visit a colleague in Samui and also see if its possible to visit the B2. I'm sure if I tweet Andy Hall he will let me know the procedure for making a visit. I'd be happy to bring with me any messages for them from anyone on here.

I doubt you will be able to get to see them but if you do you can say tell them :-

I and 99% of the farang community belive in their innocence and we will keep doing what ever we can to secure their release. Every day since their arrest I have thought of their plight and hope they will be home with their family soon.

Peter Smith

Sakon Nakhon

Who gave you the authorization to speak in mine and a much larger than 1 percentage of the farang communities name?

[Anthony5]

Yes I'm beginning to think it wont be possible to see the B2 personally. But I'm sure I can plan it somehow to deliver the messages and a few goodies to the lawyer to hand over. I may even contact the Samui Times to let them know of my intentions. It won't just be me going.

I think it's time that TV engages a psychiatrist who is available to the members at no charge.

[thailandchilli]

Yes I'm beginning to think it wont be possible to see the B2 personally. But I'm sure I can plan it somehow to deliver the messages and a few goodies to the lawyer to hand over. I may even contact the Samui Times to let them know of my intentions. It won't just be me going.

I think it's time that TV engages a psychiatrist who is available to the members at no charge.

Interesting statement, I'll ponder that for at least a nano second before I get back to other things

[Vejo]

Anthony 5, English is my first language, thailandchilli said "I'd be happy to bring with me any messages for them from anyone on here". He didn't say "everyone" so hasn't presumed any authority. The phrase "99%" is commonly used in the UK and other english speaking countries, when, in the absence any real data, it signifies the writers impression of a large majority. Your quote about engaging a psychiatrist because somebody has stated their intentions makes no sense in the context you are using it. A psychiatrist primarily deals with mental health issues, there is nothing in your requote that suggests the poster has mental health issues.

[Anthony5]

Anthony 5, English is my first language, thailandchilli said "I'd be happy to bring with me any messages for them from anyone on here". He didn't say "everyone" so hasn't presumed any authority. The phrase "99%" is commonly used in the UK and other english speaking countries, when, in the absence any real data, it signifies the writers impression of a large majority. Your quote about engaging a psychiatrist because somebody has stated their intentions makes no sense in the context you are using it. A psychiatrist primarily deals with mental health issues, there is nothing in your requote that suggests the poster has mental health issues.

If English is indeed your first language, then I suggest you learn to read since I replied to uty6543 instead of Thailandchili in regards to the 99% of the farang community.

My comment regarding the mental health issues of some members came because it is quite obvious that some are dreaming away if they think that the two accused are waiting for them and that the Samui times gonna jump in the fire for them.