What are the benefits of "permanent residency"

[prakhonchai nick]

The idea of getting PR appealed until I checked the costs. 7,600 baht for the application sounds ok, but 95,700 fee if approved is ridiculous. Without a Thai wife or kids it would be 191,400 baht, which would pay for a seriously good time in Pattaya for singles. Annual trek to Phitsanulok costs about 3,100 in fee and diesel, so it would take me 33 years, or aged 91 to get into credit.

It does indeed depend on your age when you apply. A huge cost when in your 60's, when annual visas work out cheaper. When I obtained my PR the cost was 25,002baht. Never did find out what the 2 baht was for!.

[thedemon]

I bought a couple of apartments last year as an investment. With PR I was able to get 100% mortgage finance from a local bank.

Whether or not that turns out to be a good investment remains to be seen but since I'm using the bank's money I consider it pretty low risk.

If I hadn't had that option I probably wouldn't have bought them so for me at least, that has been a benefit.

[Mario2008]

1 comment removed.

[ubonjoe]

The big thing to me is no need for extensions and the proof of income to get it every year. Plus of course no 90 day reports.

This comes in as a big thing as I get older. Even not needing to renew my passport later is something I have considered as being important.

But I don't qualify since I am not working here. Married to Thai but still cannot qualify.

[Oceanbat]

Which other nations require 90 day reports?

OB

[paz]

Which other nations require 90 day reports?

Any nationality.

[Oceanbat]

I can only think of one benefit of PR - not having to go to immigration every year, only every 5 years. You still need re-entry permit etc.

Not to be pedantic but you go to the local Police Station every 5 years to get your Certificate of Residence extended, not Immigration.

There really are no specific advantages to PR except that it's a step on the way to Thai Citizenship if you are not married to a Thai - and yes, Thai Citizenship is not at all impossible whether after PR or if married to a Thai National.

Even with PR you cannot own Land or Vote for example, and if you want to work you still need a Work Permit.

As to whether it's worthwhile, that's an individual calculation and to a large extent may depend on how old you are i.e. if the initial expense would be less than the cost of extending Visas over time etc..

For me however the main benefit is security. With any other type of Visa using extensions based on Retirement, married to a Thai, having Thai dependents etc. the requirements may change or your own circumstances may change making you ineligible for another extension - for example if you are on a Retirement extension the required amount of money in the Bank or Pension Income may increase (OK in the past when this happened those who already had extensions were "grandfathered in" but there is no guarantee this will happen in future), your Pension Fund may go broke etc. etc..

If you have PR there are no "requirements" which may possibly change - it's for life so long as you keep it valid by getting Re-entry Permits etc..

Patrick

The point here is that regulations may be changed in future.... sure, correct, but in the same light, there is nothing keeping a permanent resident status the same or even dual and or foreigner having Thai citizenship. All these matters seem to me to be nearly equal in their likelihood to change........ all of which except the money amount is so unlikely to change as to make mention of it as

just silly.

P.S. the much maligned 90day report is a report of your residential ADDRESS, not a renewal of anything. This is a very innocuous way for a nation to keep track of its long stay foreigners and very usual in other nations.

Apologies. I was replying to this post. What other nations have 90 day reporting?

OB

[gamini]

I can only think of one benefit of PR - not having to go to immigration every year, only every 5 years. You still need re-entry permit etc.

Not to be pedantic but you go to the local Police Station every 5 years to get your Certificate of Residence extended, not Immigration.

There really are no specific advantages to PR except that it's a step on the way to Thai Citizenship if you are not married to a Thai - and yes, Thai Citizenship is not at all impossible whether after PR or if married to a Thai National.

Even with PR you cannot own Land or Vote for example, and if you want to work you still need a Work Permit.

As to whether it's worthwhile, that's an individual calculation and to a large extent may depend on how old you are i.e. if the initial expense would be less than the cost of extending Visas over time etc..

For me however the main benefit is security. With any other type of Visa using extensions based on Retirement, married to a Thai, having Thai dependents etc. the requirements may change or your own circumstances may change making you ineligible for another extension - for example if you are on a Retirement extension the required amount of money in the Bank or Pension Income may increase (OK in the past when this happened those who already had extensions were "grandfathered in" but there is no guarantee this will happen in future), your Pension Fund may go broke etc. etc..

If you have PR there are no "requirements" which may possibly change - it's for life so long as you keep it valid by getting Re-entry Permits etc..

Patrick

I got a free healthcare card. I use it now and again. It would be useful to me in case of an emergancy when I can get free treatment at any government hospital. Also after 10 yeaqs PR it was very easy to get Thai citizenship. I did not bother. But all this was sometime back and things might have changed.

[sikishrory]

Someone said to keep the PR valid you just need to be in thailand 1 day per year. Is this certain? Because although I plan to stick with things here long term and would love to one day gain citizenship I often feel like going back to Australia and washing dishes or something for a few months. I work as executive chef in Thailand and would love to have a break from the stress of it oneday.

- So theoretically I could live in Australia and visit for 1 week per year and still keep this PR alive? Someone mentioned an "endorsement"is needed for travel.

- Perhaps they would not approve if you were to be out of thailand for such long times?

- how many years is it until you can apply for citizen status? I remember reading 7 years and also that they havnt issued any for a number of years now. Is this correct?

I was sceptical on this whole pr thing but if you really just need to be in thailand 1 day per year to keep it alive then it is certainly worth it to me. It would certainly make you a better candidate for employment as well.

By the way what is the total cost? Its around 200k right?

Thank you for all the answers

[samran]

Someone said to keep the PR valid you just need to be in thailand 1 day per year. Is this certain? Because although I plan to stick with things here long term and would love to one day gain citizenship I often feel like going back to Australia and washing dishes or something for a few months. I work as executive chef in Thailand and would love to have a break from the stress of it oneday.

- So theoretically I could live in Australia and visit for 1 week per year and still keep this PR alive? Someone mentioned an "endorsement"is needed for travel.

- Perhaps they would not approve if you were to be out of thailand for such long times?

- how many years is it until you can apply for citizen status? I remember reading 7 years and also that they havnt issued any for a number of years now. Is this correct?

I was sceptical on this whole pr thing but if you really just need to be in thailand 1 day per year to keep it alive then it is certainly worth it to me. It would certainly make you a better candidate for employment as well.

By the way what is the total cost? Its around 200k right?

Thank you for all the answers

from friends who have PR, the reality is you'll need a few days to get the renentry permit for PR's. But apart from that, theoretically yes.

But then it comes down to are you really going to properly settle in Thailand?

As for time to apply, I guess December is around the corner and the junta are starting to get through the backlog and make inroads into applications. Now might be a good time.

[sikishrory]

My 3 years is in february so im thinkin of maybe starting to contact lawyers now to check it out.

What does this status mean in regards to buying a business? I guess no problems as you dont need a visa anyway anymore?

[paz]

My 3 years is in february so im thinkin of maybe starting to contact lawyers now to check it out.

What does this status mean in regards to buying a business? I guess no problems as you dont need a visa anyway anymore?

No change. You remain a foreigner and can't own more than 49%.

[thedemon]

Someone said to keep the PR valid you just need to be in thailand 1 day per year. Is this certain? Because although I plan to stick with things here long term and would love to one day gain citizenship I often feel like going back to Australia and washing dishes or something for a few months. I work as executive chef in Thailand and would love to have a break from the stress of it oneday.

- So theoretically I could live in Australia and visit for 1 week per year and still keep this PR alive? Someone mentioned an "endorsement"is needed for travel.

- Perhaps they would not approve if you were to be out of thailand for such long times?

- how many years is it until you can apply for citizen status? I remember reading 7 years and also that they havnt issued any for a number of years now. Is this correct?

I was sceptical on this whole pr thing but if you really just need to be in thailand 1 day per year to keep it alive then it is certainly worth it to me. It would certainly make you a better candidate for employment as well.

By the way what is the total cost? Its around 200k right?

Thank you for all the answers

Yes it is certain that returning to Thailand once a year is sufficient to maintain PR. The "endorsement" is a stamp placed in your residence certificate and the "re-entry permit" is a stamp placed in your passport. Both are done at the same time. My experience is that it takes about 1 hour at CW as long as you don't arrive just before lunch or the end of the day.

I have an acquaintance that returned to live in his home country just after receiving PR, for the sake of his kids education, and has been returning once a year for about 10 years so far. That is within the rules so I don't think an immigration officer could make an arbitrary decision about how long is too long. However if you were to return to Thailand even 1 day late it would be all over so for that reason I always renew my endorsement/re-entry about a month early just to allow for any contingencies like a family emergency, health issue etc.

As already said, if married to a Thai citizen PR is not a prerequisite to applying for citizenship. If not, then 5 years of PR is required. The fees for PR are approx 100k if married to a Thai citizen and 200k if not. The actual application fee is about 7k with the balance only due upon success.

Thai Citizenship is still being granted on a regular basis. There are several threads about that on this forum. Personally I find the biggest drawback to applying for citizenship is the lack of transparency and predictability in the process. The PR approval process has also suffered through long periods of being stalled in recent years but one advantage for a PR applicant is that once an application is accepted the applicant no longer needs to meet any requirements except show up for an "under consideration" stamp every 6 months

[Bernard Flint]

Please explain why you have PR for 24 years but never applied for dual Thai citizenship? I do not understand?

He may for instance hold a nationality that would not permit dual nationality and may not be prepared to give up this nationality.

Or he may not speak/read/ write thai good enough

[prakhonchai nick]

A word of warning for those seeking Thai Citizenship:-

"Under international law, countries cannot offer formal diplomatic protection to their nationals if they are in a second country where they also hold nationality" Per the BBC

[paz]

A word of warning for those seeking Thai Citizenship:-

"Under international law, countries cannot offer formal diplomatic protection to their nationals if they are in a second country where they also hold nationality" Per the BBC

Link and opinion is about the UK, there are about other 170 nationalities in world that may do differently, for sure mine would.

Also, what is "diplomatic protection" for the common citizen in a foreign country? That they give you a list of lawyers and doctors if you are in trouble ?

[tommyuk77]

I also interested to apply for pr, I married to thai and have a child, not working here too, meaning not possible to qualify ay all?

The big thing to me is no need for extensions and the proof of income to get it every year. Plus of course no 90 day reports.

This comes in as a big thing as I get older. Even not needing to renew my passport later is something I have considered as being important.

But I don't qualify since I am not working here. Married to Thai but still cannot qualify.

[ubonjoe]

I also interested to apply for pr, I married to thai and have a child, not working here too, meaning not possible to qualify ay all?

The big thing to me is no need for extensions and the proof of income to get it every year. Plus of course no 90 day reports.

This comes in as a big thing as I get older. Even not needing to renew my passport later is something I have considered as being important.

But I don't qualify since I am not working here. Married to Thai but still cannot qualify.

If not working you cannot qualify for PR or citizenship.

[JThai]

The idea of getting PR appealed until I checked the costs. 7,600 baht for the application sounds ok, but 95,700 fee if approved is ridiculous. Without a Thai wife or kids it would be 191,400 baht, which would pay for a seriously good time in Pattaya for singles. Annual trek to Phitsanulok costs about 3,100 in fee and diesel, so it would take me 33 years, or aged 91 to get into credit.

What visa do you have right now?

[samran]

A word of warning for those seeking Thai Citizenship:-

"Under international law, countries cannot offer formal diplomatic protection to their nationals if they are in a second country where they also hold nationality" Per the BBC

No countries can offer diplomatic protection unless you are a diplomat.

As for what you are trying to say, big deal...

As a dual national in thailand, I guess I miss out on the australian embassy providing me a list of lawyers and telling me I have to ring a relative for bail money. They aren't able to, or every will be, able to organise a get out of jail free card for anyone.

[GarryP]

I agree with the 'security' answer. While the requirements to get PR have changed a bit over the years, once its granted that's it, nothing else needed ever, apart from the re-entry permit if you travel.

As far as citizenship goes, I understand that one of the requirements for citizenship now is that you provide a letter stating your intention to renounce your existing citizenship once you have been granted Thai citizenship. That sounds a lot to me like a step at least on the road to no dual citizenships for naturalized Thais, and certainly is a show stopper for me.

The statement that you will give up your other nationality is not enforced and is certainly not binding. It is was something the interior ministry bureaucrats put in the ministerial regulation and is not supported by any law.

More than that, it seems to be a face saving procedure for the one nationality only hardliners at MOI, but as UJ says is unenforceable given it is only an intention to renounce, and we know intentions can change.

Similar to language is the nationality act which states that a Thai child of a foreign parent 'if they wish to retain their foreign nationality' have to make and choice between ages 20 and 21, the intention to renounce overlooks that Thailand has no power to make another government revoke the citizenship of one of its nationals.

The only thing Thailand can do is not issue permanent citizenship until it is confirmed that the former citizenship has been renounced. But that isn't in the rules. It can't even make someone renounce their original citizenship before they get Thailand nationality, as the home country will refuse the persons request on the basis that they will become stateless.

Having said that, the question is often asked in the formal interview sessions at MOI whether you would be prepared to give up your own citizenship in order to get Thai citizenship. I think it would be fair to say that if you responded in the negative, your application would stop there and get binned. This is despite the fact that, as you say, the law does not bar dual ccitizenship.

[GarryP]

The rules have changed now. When I obtained PR, you had to wait 10 years to apply for citizenship.

Why would I want citizenship? I can do now all I need to. No interest in working or voting. No social security benefits to obtain (unlike immigrants in my home country) PR does me fine.

Not correct for all cases. You would qualify for the universal health care card if you are not a social security paying card carrier and a monthly allowance for the aged when you reach 60 or 65 (depending on age I believe it goes up to Baht 1,000 ). Not much I know but it is definitely something. For many people, universal health care could become a big benefit if they are unable to get health insurance due to age or a pre-existing condition.

If you are a member of the social security fund and have been paying in for enough years (the current maximum monthly deduction is Baht 750), you will have the choice of recieving your pension as a lump sum or a monthly payment (as a foreigner you only have the choice of the lump some).

I am sure there are other things too.

[samran]

I agree with the 'security' answer. While the requirements to get PR have changed a bit over the years, once its granted that's it, nothing else needed ever, apart from the re-entry permit if you travel.

As far as citizenship goes, I understand that one of the requirements for citizenship now is that you provide a letter stating your intention to renounce your existing citizenship once you have been granted Thai citizenship. That sounds a lot to me like a step at least on the road to no dual citizenships for naturalized Thais, and certainly is a show stopper for me.

The statement that you will give up your other nationality is not enforced and is certainly not binding. It is was something the interior ministry bureaucrats put in the ministerial regulation and is not supported by any law.

More than that, it seems to be a face saving procedure for the one nationality only hardliners at MOI, but as UJ says is unenforceable given it is only an intention to renounce, and we know intentions can change.

Similar to language is the nationality act which states that a Thai child of a foreign parent 'if they wish to retain their foreign nationality' have to make and choice between ages 20 and 21, the intention to renounce overlooks that Thailand has no power to make another government revoke the citizenship of one of its nationals.

The only thing Thailand can do is not issue permanent citizenship until it is confirmed that the former citizenship has been renounced. But that isn't in the rules. It can't even make someone renounce their original citizenship before they get Thailand nationality, as the home country will refuse the persons request on the basis that they will become stateless.

Having said that, the question is often asked in the formal interview sessions at MOI whether you would be prepared to give up your own citizenship in order to get Thai citizenship. I think it would be fair to say that if you responded in the negative, your application would stop there and get binned. This is despite the fact that, as you say, the law does not bar dual ccitizenship.

certainly can't speak for others, but my wifes process didn't have this as an issue. Perhaps it has something to do with her offically applying under a different section of the act?

[Bangel72]

For me it was the security element and being able to take time between jobs, as someone mentioned earlier the current side effect in the long approval times is that many people are getting this (perhaps to a slightly lesser extent) without the significant PR fee being payed.

I suspect it is also serves as an early retirement option though again I am not sure that was it's intent.

[stbkk]

I agree with the 'security' answer. While the requirements to get PR have changed a bit over the years, once its granted that's it, nothing else needed ever, apart from the re-entry permit if you travel.

As far as citizenship goes, I understand that one of the requirements for citizenship now is that you provide a letter stating your intention to renounce your existing citizenship once you have been granted Thai citizenship. That sounds a lot to me like a step at least on the road to no dual citizenships for naturalized Thais, and certainly is a show stopper for me.

The statement that you will give up your other nationality is not enforced and is certainly not binding. It is was something the interior ministry bureaucrats put in the ministerial regulation and is not supported by any law.

A number of people have said its not binding, but I'll be very interested to hear if anybody has actually got to the granting of citizenship stage yet that has had to sign this letter, and if so, what happened?

[GarryP]

I agree with the 'security' answer. While the requirements to get PR have changed a bit over the years, once its granted that's it, nothing else needed ever, apart from the re-entry permit if you travel.

As far as citizenship goes, I understand that one of the requirements for citizenship now is that you provide a letter stating your intention to renounce your existing citizenship once you have been granted Thai citizenship. That sounds a lot to me like a step at least on the road to no dual citizenships for naturalized Thais, and certainly is a show stopper for me.

The statement that you will give up your other nationality is not enforced and is certainly not binding. It is was something the interior ministry bureaucrats put in the ministerial regulation and is not supported by any law.

A number of people have said its not binding, but I'll be very interested to hear if anybody has actually got to the granting of citizenship stage yet that has had to sign this letter, and if so, what happened?

You submit the declaration of intent during the application phase, not upon being granted citizenship. If you do not provide such a declaration, your application does not get processed.

[stbkk]

I agree with the 'security' answer. While the requirements to get PR have changed a bit over the years, once its granted that's it, nothing else needed ever, apart from the re-entry permit if you travel.

As far as citizenship goes, I understand that one of the requirements for citizenship now is that you provide a letter stating your intention to renounce your existing citizenship once you have been granted Thai citizenship. That sounds a lot to me like a step at least on the road to no dual citizenships for naturalized Thais, and certainly is a show stopper for me.

The statement that you will give up your other nationality is not enforced and is certainly not binding. It is was something the interior ministry bureaucrats put in the ministerial regulation and is not supported by any law.

A number of people have said its not binding, but I'll be very interested to hear if anybody has actually got to the granting of citizenship stage yet that has had to sign this letter, and if so, what happened?

You submit the declaration of intent during the application phase, not upon being granted citizenship. If you do not provide such a declaration, your application does not get processed.

Sorry, didn't make myself very clear. What I meant was had anybody who has provided the signed declaration actually got granted citizenship yet, and if so, what happened? Were they asked about the letter or asked to provide proof of renouncing their previous citizenship?

[sikishrory]

Just to update I went to a bunch of lawyers 4 or 5 in Patong who had never heard of permanent residency. I eventually found a lady who knew what i was talking about but had never done it so referred me to a guy who has processed them before. He quoted 300,000 - 400,000 baht for everything including his fees. However he was unsure that me being a chef and not a business owner would be eligible. Can anyone tell what sort of fees they paid as a comparison becuase this is a lot. Also I asked some questions about it at patojg immigration ajd they too had no idea what i was talking about.

Hopefully I will be prepeared next year anyway.

[prakhonchai nick]

Just to update I went to a bunch of lawyers 4 or 5 in Patong who had never heard of permanent residency. I eventually found a lady who knew what i was talking about but had never done it so referred me to a guy who has processed them before. He quoted 300,000 - 400,000 baht for everything including his fees. However he was unsure that me being a chef and not a business owner would be eligible. Can anyone tell what sort of fees they paid as a comparison becuase this is a lot. Also I asked some questions about it at patojg immigration ajd they too had no idea what i was talking about.

Hopefully I will be prepeared next year anyway.

Typical scamming lawyers.

Go to your immigration office and tell them you want PR. Of course patong Immigration will understand. Copy the booklet photo that I am sure you will find somewhere here and show them!.

You must have a minimum of 3 consecutive 1 year visas to begin the process.

Immigration will tell you if it can be done in Phuket or whether application has to be made (?in person) in Bangkok.

[GarryP]

Just to update I went to a bunch of lawyers 4 or 5 in Patong who had never heard of permanent residency. I eventually found a lady who knew what i was talking about but had never done it so referred me to a guy who has processed them before. He quoted 300,000 - 400,000 baht for everything including his fees. However he was unsure that me being a chef and not a business owner would be eligible. Can anyone tell what sort of fees they paid as a comparison becuase this is a lot. Also I asked some questions about it at patojg immigration ajd they too had no idea what i was talking about.

Hopefully I will be prepeared next year anyway.

The fees quoted are ridiculously high unless they also include the official fees, but even then 400k would still be on the high side.

You do not need to have your own business. As long as you are employed under a work permit, that should suffice, provided you meet all other criteria.