What are the benefits of "permanent residency"

[sikishrory]

Im coming up to 3 years of living in Thailand in a few months and I believe that makes me eligible to apply for "permanent residency". I may be wrong as it's been quite awhile since i read "cameratas guide to residency" here. Which is where all the facts and info seem to be.

It is a lot of information to take in. It seems though that permanent residency is an expensive process that comes with little benefit.

Could anyone take a moment to list some of the benefits because as far as I can tell the only real benefits are that you dont have to do 90 day reports or re-entry permits and also it is the first step to citizenship which if im not mistaken is unlikely to ever happen anyway.

Also i am wondering if your stay in thailand is based on your employment and you lose your job would this mean your resident status would immedietely be cancelled?

It really doesnt seem worth it to me.

[Neeranam]

Citizenship CAN happen.

Permanent Residency is not linked to your job.

If you are married to a Thai is is much easier and cheaper to go straight for citizenship.

I can only think of one benefit of PR - not having to go to immigration every year, only every 5 years. You still need re-entry permit etc.

[sfbandung]

Does Thailand allow dual nationality? If I were to apply for Citizenship can I keep my Australian Passport? And is there a residency requirement similar to Australia?

[Mario2008]

Thailand allows dual nationality.

To maintain PR you must be in Thailand for at least 1 day per year. If you leave Thailand and do not return within 1 year you lose your PR.

Questions about Thai nationality in the Thai nationality thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Story-Thai-Citizenship-Applicatio-t121353.html

[p_brownstone]

I can only think of one benefit of PR - not having to go to immigration every year, only every 5 years. You still need re-entry permit etc.

Not to be pedantic but you go to the local Police Station every 5 years to get your Certificate of Residence extended, not Immigration.

There really are no specific advantages to PR except that it's a step on the way to Thai Citizenship if you are not married to a Thai - and yes, Thai Citizenship is not at all impossible whether after PR or if married to a Thai National.

Even with PR you cannot own Land or Vote for example, and if you want to work you still need a Work Permit.

As to whether it's worthwhile, that's an individual calculation and to a large extent may depend on how old you are i.e. if the initial expense would be less than the cost of extending Visas over time etc..

For me however the main benefit is security. With any other type of Visa using extensions based on Retirement, married to a Thai, having Thai dependents etc. the requirements may change or your own circumstances may change making you ineligible for another extension - for example if you are on a Retirement extension the required amount of money in the Bank or Pension Income may increase (OK in the past when this happened those who already had extensions were "grandfathered in" but there is no guarantee this will happen in future), your Pension Fund may go broke etc. etc..

If you have PR there are no "requirements" which may possibly change - it's for life so long as you keep it valid by getting Re-entry Permits etc..

Patrick

Edited November 3, 2014 by p_brownstone

[KamnanT]

The principal benefit my family and I see in PR is certainty. Unlike the regulations for temporary extensions of stay, which seem to change monthly, the rules for PR holders haven't changed in the 8 years we've been on this status. PR is not linked to employment so you don't have to leave Thailand the moment you lose your job. One visit per year to Immigration to have our Certificates of Residence endorsed (and that only because we travel outside the country) and one visit every 5 years to the local police station to renew our Alien Registrations. Both visits are perfunctory - application forms and fees, no guesswork, no "my-new-regulation-of-the-day" from grumpy IOs and no requests for un-receipted contributions (well, one veiled assertion from the local cop shop that they were a bit short of whisky, but I didn't help out and I still got our Alien Registrations renewed).

One unintended benefit, given the current long processing times, is that you can stay in Thailand on six-month extensions while your application is under consideration. No visa runs, no risk of being denied entry at the border - just pop into immigration every six months and get another "PR under consideration" stamp.

The only other tangible benefits, albeit of limited utility depending on your circumstances are:

• Purchase condominiums with local funds (no need to transfer funds in from outside Thailand),
• Apply for naturalisation as a Thai citizen,
• Children born in Thailand to foreigners with PR have Thai nationality, and
• Can be a director of a Thai public company.

Yes, the once-off fee once it's granted is expensive, so one wouldn't go down this path unless you were definitely planning to stay in Thailand long term.

[mike324]

I can only think of one benefit of PR - not having to go to immigration every year, only every 5 years. You still need re-entry permit etc.

Not to be pedantic but you go to the local Police Station every 5 years to get your Certificate of Residence extended, not Immigration.

There really are no specific advantages to PR except that it's a step on the way to Thai Citizenship if you are not married to a Thai - and yes, Thai Citizenship is not at all impossible whether after PR or if married to a Thai National.

Even with PR you cannot own Land or Vote for example, and if you want to work you still need a Work Permit.

As to whether it's worthwhile, that's an individual calculation and to a large extent may depend on how old you are i.e. if the initial expense would be less than the cost of extending Visas over time etc..

For me however the main benefit is security. With any other type of Visa using extensions based on Retirement, married to a Thai, having Thai dependents etc. the requirements may change or your own circumstances may change making you ineligible for another extension - for example if you are on a Retirement extension the required amount of money in the Bank or Pension Income may increase (OK in the past when this happened those who already had extensions were "grandfathered in" but there is no guarantee this will happen in future), your Pension Fund may go broke etc. etc..

If you have PR there are no "requirements" which may possibly change - it's for life so long as you keep it valid by getting Re-entry Permits etc..

Patrick

To add to that, you still have to renew your re-entry permit every year.

[prakhonchai nick]

I have had PR for the past 24 years.

Saves new visas every year, and the need to keep money in the bank

Costs an extra 1,900baht for re-entry permits annually.

If you travel in/out of Thailand regularly, then the PR book fills up quickly and costs 4000baht to replace.- and the need for 2 visits to Chang Wattana with 4 days between!

Has no more effect than a Thai Driving Licence to obtain admision at Thai prices to dual priced places (national parks etc)

The main benefit as said above is security.

Edited November 3, 2014 by prakhonchai nick

[Robert24]

I considered PR as well but I read that you need to have at least 3 years in Thailand consecutively on the same non-imm. Visa which doesn't work for me since I'm on ED visa and need to get a new visa every year.

if you meet all the requirements for PR, I would definitely recommend applying for it. Solves all your visa/immigration headaches at minimal costs for the rest of your life.

[KhnomKhnom]

I can only think of one benefit of PR - not having to go to immigration every year, only every 5 years. You still need re-entry permit etc.

Not to be pedantic but you go to the local Police Station every 5 years to get your Certificate of Residence extended, not Immigration.

There really are no specific advantages to PR except that it's a step on the way to Thai Citizenship if you are not married to a Thai - and yes, Thai Citizenship is not at all impossible whether after PR or if married to a Thai National.

Even with PR you cannot own Land or Vote for example, and if you want to work you still need a Work Permit.

As to whether it's worthwhile, that's an individual calculation and to a large extent may depend on how old you are i.e. if the initial expense would be less than the cost of extending Visas over time etc..

For me however the main benefit is security. With any other type of Visa using extensions based on Retirement, married to a Thai, having Thai dependents etc. the requirements may change or your own circumstances may change making you ineligible for another extension - for example if you are on a Retirement extension the required amount of money in the Bank or Pension Income may increase (OK in the past when this happened those who already had extensions were "grandfathered in" but there is no guarantee this will happen in future), your Pension Fund may go broke etc. etc..

If you have PR there are no "requirements" which may possibly change - it's for life so long as you keep it valid by getting Re-entry Permits etc..

Patrick

The point here is that regulations may be changed in future.... sure, correct, but in the same light, there is nothing keeping a permanent resident status the same or even dual and or foreigner having Thai citizenship. All these matters seem to me to be nearly equal in their likelihood to change........ all of which except the money amount is so unlikely to change as to make mention of it as

just silly.

P.S. the much maligned 90day report is a report of your residential ADDRESS, not a renewal of anything. This is a very innocuous way for a nation to keep track of its long stay foreigners and very usual in other nations.

[maidee]

so any thaivisa members here that can claim to obtained citizenship ?

[ubonjoe]

so any thaivisa members here that can claim to obtained citizenship ?

There are several.

[Suradit69]

I have had PR for the past 24 years.

Saves new visas every year, and the need to keep money in the bank

Costs an extra 1,900baht for re-entry permits annually.

If you travel in/out of Thailand regularly, then the PR book fills up quickly and costs 4000baht to replace.- and the need for 2 visits to Chang Wattana with 4 days between!

Has no more effect than a Thai Driving Licence to obtain admision at Thai prices to dual priced places (national parks etc)

The main benefit as said above is security.

"Costs an extra 1,900baht for re-entry permits annually."

I have no personal knowledge on the issue, but in another thread someone (Kwaibah) said a PR re-entry permit cost Baht 8000.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/772067-re-entry-visa-for-permanent-residence-holder/

Edited November 3, 2014 by Suradit69

[ubonjoe]

It is 3900 baht total cost. He was corrected in a later post.

[paulhen]

I have had PR for the past 24 years.

Saves new visas every year, and the need to keep money in the bank

Costs an extra 1,900baht for re-entry permits annually.

If you travel in/out of Thailand regularly, then the PR book fills up quickly and costs 4000baht to replace.- and the need for 2 visits to Chang Wattana with 4 days between!

Has no more effect than a Thai Driving Licence to obtain admision at Thai prices to dual priced places (national parks etc)

The main benefit as said above is security.

Please explain why you have PR for 24 years but never applied for dual Thai citizenship? I do not understand?

Edited November 3, 2014 by paulhen

[p_brownstone]

I can only think of one benefit of PR - not having to go to immigration every year, only every 5 years. You still need re-entry permit etc.

Not to be pedantic but you go to the local Police Station every 5 years to get your Certificate of Residence extended, not Immigration.

There really are no specific advantages to PR except that it's a step on the way to Thai Citizenship if you are not married to a Thai - and yes, Thai Citizenship is not at all impossible whether after PR or if married to a Thai National.

Even with PR you cannot own Land or Vote for example, and if you want to work you still need a Work Permit.

As to whether it's worthwhile, that's an individual calculation and to a large extent may depend on how old you are i.e. if the initial expense would be less than the cost of extending Visas over time etc..

For me however the main benefit is security. With any other type of Visa using extensions based on Retirement, married to a Thai, having Thai dependents etc. the requirements may change or your own circumstances may change making you ineligible for another extension - for example if you are on a Retirement extension the required amount of money in the Bank or Pension Income may increase (OK in the past when this happened those who already had extensions were "grandfathered in" but there is no guarantee this will happen in future), your Pension Fund may go broke etc. etc..

If you have PR there are no "requirements" which may possibly change - it's for life so long as you keep it valid by getting Re-entry Permits etc..

Patrick

The point here is that regulations may be changed in future.... sure, correct, but in the same light, there is nothing keeping a permanent resident status the same or even dual and or foreigner having Thai citizenship. All these matters seem to me to be nearly equal in their likelihood to change........ all of which except the money amount is so unlikely to change as to make mention of it as just silly.

Well, yes, anything is possible of course, however I have held PR for over 40 years (together with a lifetime, transferable Work Permit) and although in that time Fees and some other requirements to obtain a NEW PR have changed there has never been even a hint of changes to affect existing PR holders - but requirements for other types of Visa and / or Extensions have changed several times - so all-in-all I think we're pretty safe!

Re the Re-entry Permit: If leaving the Country one must obtain an Endorsement, stamped into the Certificate of Residence, costing Baht 1,900 and valid for 1 year, plus a Re-entry Permit stamped into the Passport - Single Entry costs Baht 1,900.- Multi-entry costs Baht 3,800.- and is also valid for 1 year; however if one does not leave the Kingdom there is absolutely no need for any contact with "Officialdom" whatsoever except for the 5 year extension of the Alien Registration Book at the local Police Station (NOT the Certificate of Residence as I said earlier - my apologies for the error.).

Patrick

[carter1882]

One of the main benefits is that when people on TV dont like your posts and tell you to go home you can stay precisely where you are with no further action required.

[stbkk]

I agree with the 'security' answer. While the requirements to get PR have changed a bit over the years, once its granted that's it, nothing else needed ever, apart from the re-entry permit if you travel.

As far as citizenship goes, I understand that one of the requirements for citizenship now is that you provide a letter stating your intention to renounce your existing citizenship once you have been granted Thai citizenship. That sounds a lot to me like a step at least on the road to no dual citizenships for naturalized Thais, and certainly is a show stopper for me.

[ubonjoe]

I agree with the 'security' answer. While the requirements to get PR have changed a bit over the years, once its granted that's it, nothing else needed ever, apart from the re-entry permit if you travel.

As far as citizenship goes, I understand that one of the requirements for citizenship now is that you provide a letter stating your intention to renounce your existing citizenship once you have been granted Thai citizenship. That sounds a lot to me like a step at least on the road to no dual citizenships for naturalized Thais, and certainly is a show stopper for me.

The statement that you will give up your other nationality is not enforced and is certainly not binding. It is was something the interior ministry bureaucrats put in the ministerial regulation and is not supported by any law.

[Morakot]

Please explain why you have PR for 24 years but never applied for dual Thai citizenship? I do not understand?

He may for instance hold a nationality that would not permit dual nationality and may not be prepared to give up this nationality.

[scorecard]

Sure things can change, no discussion needed.

I have PR, many years, I was lucky I got it under the old fee structure, much less than today.

The benefit for me - simple:

- The peace of mind that applying every year for some of extension won't bring a problem or maybe even refusal.

- Therefore, the best assurance available that I won't be separated from my Thai family which includes children and grand children. And all of that even more important as I get older and need their love and caring.

Peace of mind.

Edited November 3, 2014 by scorecard

[samran]

I agree with the 'security' answer. While the requirements to get PR have changed a bit over the years, once its granted that's it, nothing else needed ever, apart from the re-entry permit if you travel.

As far as citizenship goes, I understand that one of the requirements for citizenship now is that you provide a letter stating your intention to renounce your existing citizenship once you have been granted Thai citizenship. That sounds a lot to me like a step at least on the road to no dual citizenships for naturalized Thais, and certainly is a show stopper for me.

The statement that you will give up your other nationality is not enforced and is certainly not binding. It is was something the interior ministry bureaucrats put in the ministerial regulation and is not supported by any law.

More than that, it seems to be a face saving procedure for the one nationality only hardliners at MOI, but as UJ says is unenforceable given it is only an intention to renounce, and we know intentions can change.

Similar to language is the nationality act which states that a Thai child of a foreign parent 'if they wish to retain their foreign nationality' have to make and choice between ages 20 and 21, the intention to renounce overlooks that Thailand has no power to make another government revoke the citizenship of one of its nationals.

The only thing Thailand can do is not issue permanent citizenship until it is confirmed that the former citizenship has been renounced. But that isn't in the rules. It can't even make someone renounce their original citizenship before they get Thailand nationality, as the home country will refuse the persons request on the basis that they will become stateless.

[farangmick]

The idea of getting PR appealed until I checked the costs. 7,600 baht for the application sounds ok, but 95,700 fee if approved is ridiculous. Without a Thai wife or kids it would be 191,400 baht, which would pay for a seriously good time in Pattaya for singles. Annual trek to Phitsanulok costs about 3,100 in fee and diesel, so it would take me 33 years, or aged 91 to get into credit.

[Naroge]

...................

Costs an extra 1,900baht for re-entry permits annually.

.............................

Please note that if you do not leave the country there is no need for keeping a valid "re-entry" permit, and therefore no cost. Apply for one only before leaving.

[Hornell]

Farangmick is right, although I can't verify his figures, but I have been here for 17 years and have occasionally looked at the PR option rather than my existing Retirement Visa. Frankly, the expense and the lack of benefits made PR a non-starter as far as I was concerned, I'll go along - just - with the security 'benefit', but even that is pretty shaky to me.

[Robert24]

@farangmick: 200k for a life long PR sounds reasonable to me. Do you have any better alternatives?

My ED visa costs me about 40-50k in total p.a. not considering the whole hassle that goes with it. The elite visa is 500k for 5 yrs after which you need to renew. Any other options that gives you life long residency in Thailand for less than 200k?

[prakhonchai nick]

I have had PR for the past 24 years.

Saves new visas every year, and the need to keep money in the bank

Costs an extra 1,900baht for re-entry permits annually.

If you travel in/out of Thailand regularly, then the PR book fills up quickly and costs 4000baht to replace.- and the need for 2 visits to Chang Wattana with 4 days between!

Has no more effect than a Thai Driving Licence to obtain admision at Thai prices to dual priced places (national parks etc)

The main benefit as said above is security.

Please explain why you have PR for 24 years but never applied for dual Thai citizenship? I do not understand?

The rules have changed now. When I obtained PR, you had to wait 10 years to apply for citizenship.

Why would I want citizenship? I can do now all I need to. No interest in working or voting. No social security benefits to obtain (unlike immigrants in my home country) PR does me fine.

[canopus1969]

It is 3900 baht total cost. He was corrected in a later post.

For a multiple re-entry do you not have to complete TM13 and TM22 - 3,800 Baht + 1,900 Baht ?

[prakhonchai nick]

It is 3900 baht total cost. He was corrected in a later post.

For a multiple re-entry do you not have to complete TM13 and TM22 - 3,800 Baht + 1,900 Baht ?

Don't know about the forms offhand, but 5,700baht in total for a multiple re-entry. Those holding marriage or retirement extensions only have to pay 3,800baht!

[paz]

@farangmick: 200k for a life long PR sounds reasonable to me. Do you have any better alternatives?

The small issue is that in practice, most people can't get PR. For example, one must work and earn 100K a month.