Merkel 'would accept UK exit from EU'

[webfact]

Germany 'would accept UK exit from EU' to protect migration rules

(BBC) Chancellor Angela Merkel would rather see the UK exit from the European Union than compromise over the principle of free movement of workers, according to the German magazine Der Spiegel.

Mrs Merkel is alleged to fear that the UK is approaching a "point of no return".

Downing Street would not comment on the reports.

Mr Cameron wants to renegotiate the terms of the UK's continued membership before holding an in-out referendum.

The prime minister said that freedom of movement would be "at the very heart of my renegotiation strategy for Europe", but Mrs Merkel is said by the magazine to have made clear she will withdraw her support for the UK's continued EU membership if he continues to push for migration reform.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29874392


-- BBC 2014-11-03

[ukrules]

Merkel would have no choice in the matter so her thoughts are quite irrelevant.

Edited November 3, 2014 by ukrules

[casualbiker]

She only wants freedom of movement so the majority actually end up in the UK rather than Germany!

If they keep allowing poor countries into the EU then they will continue to have economic migration which is not really what it was intended for!

[steve187]

Its time that the march of the EU was slowed down, when i took part in the only referendum that we had on the subject, it was for a common market, not the complex anyone can join Eu that the female version of Hitler wants

[RustBucket]

I am so glad to be reading this.... My coffee tastes that much better this morning.

So Misery Merkel is 'threatening' to stop supporting Britain's membership of the EU?..... Lol.... Farage must be thinking all his Christmases have come at once.

Cameron will have nothing to put on the table to get the people of the UK to vote 'in' ..... Something he was banking on. The bare minimum would have had to be more flexibility in the movement rules. That won't happen now and he is going to have to resort to pure scaremongering, and Clegg already tried that in a head to head debate with Farage back in March/April..... and failed miserably.

Way to go Merkel. Help us out of the EU by all means. Because the way things are looking, once the UK is out, France won't be too far behind because their people have also had enough and the right wingers are on the march there too. So it will be France probably next, and after that Germany will be left to shore up 25 under-performing economies.

You got to hand it to the Germans... They have managed to turn the once 'common market' into the 'German Empire' and all without firing a single shot. I wonder what Germany is going to look like in 10 years?....... Probably bankrupt.

[NeverSure]

What these people want is a one-world government. They know that can't cram it in so they are devoted to slowly slipping it in.

They believe that it will bring whirled peas world peace. The song "Imagine" from the 1960's when many of these people were developing:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky

Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too

Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You, you may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will live as one

SONGWRITER
LENNON, JOHN

[ABCer]

Merkel should be lamenting Germany's advance towards "the point of no return" due to exactly the same "freedom of movement".

Use of words here is liberal. The substance is - uncontrolled migration of elements not even the part of EU.

The perfect example of actions leading to unforeseen results.

Merkel should also try to listen to her own people opinion on the issue.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Scott

[Humberstone]

This is beacuse Cameron is running scared of UKIP and his own back bench MP's, it's a combination of posturing and cynical political expediency. There is no way Cameron wants out of the EU or, given his past track record, managing a sucessful renegotiation of the UK's membership of the EU.He is held in thrall to the Euro Sceptics in his party to which he has to pander

He recently used language like 'applying the hand brake' with regards to immigration, despite the fact that levels of immigration from EU countries are the same as they were during Labour.

TBH, I am sick and tired of this old re-fried, re-hashed immigration red herring, It dominates every discussion about UK domestic politics. It's a disraction from the 'real issues' in the UK i.e. housing, 30 bn sterling shortfall in NHS funding, wealth inequality, the break up of the UK, jobs and salaries, etc..

[pitrevie]

I cant wait to exit the EU after all a financial nirvana beckons which is why most of the major manufacturers, and the financial sector want us to remain in.

Those who want us out, range from Arthur Scargill, The Communist Party of GB, The Socialist Party of GB and sundry other bedfellows on the extreme left.

Along with UKIP and sundry other extreme right wing factions including the extreme right wing of the Tory party.

So with that poisonous cocktail of allies, exit from the EU is going to benefit the working classes without any doubt.

All that can be said with any certainty is that 10 years from now the pound will be worth far less than the Euro and the long predicted collapse of the Euro

will not have occurred.

[jayjayjayjay]

She only wants freedom of movement so the majority actually end up in the UK rather than Germany!

If they keep allowing poor countries into the EU then they will continue to have economic migration which is not really what it was intended for!

I have a lot of work with Bulgarian companies. They have complained bitterly the last two years that 2million people have vanished since entering the EU. I guess in the longterm it is good for the poor one, but not so good for the rich.

[Greer]

The whole concept of "freedom of movement" was fine while the countries exposed were the ones that are (or were) on a roughly equal financial footing. Once the poor countries were admitted, their citizens were given the right to move into these "rich" countries, and settle and work - fine (sort of) so far... BUT - the government handouts, and easy welfare society plus the lax attitude to racism (by immigrants against the host nation), made the UK the jewel in the crown, and the place to go - so rather than the extra people simply becoming an evenly spread workforce distributed across all of the EU (which would have worked perfectly), and thus abiding by the concept of freedom of movement, the new migrants wanted a nice place with generous welfare that was easy to obtain, and it simply became a "freedom of entry to the UK" system instead.

Under the present system of free handouts by the PC tw*ts (< that has an "a" in it) in government, and the lack of common sense in which countries should be allowed entry to the EU, this is bound to fail, and is already doing so - witness: the scenes at Calais...

Edited November 3, 2014 by Greer

[RustBucket]

This is beacuse Cameron is running scared of UKIP and his own back bench MP's, it's a combination of posturing and cynical political expediency. There is no way Cameron wants out of the EU or, given his past track record, managing a sucessful renegotiation of the UK's membership of the EU.He is held in thrall to the Euro Sceptics in his party to which he has to pander

He recently used language like 'applying the hand brake' with regards to immigration, despite the fact that levels of immigration from EU countries are the same as they were during Labour.

TBH, I am sick and tired of this old re-fried, re-hashed immigration red herring, It dominates every discussion about UK domestic politics. It's a disraction from the 'real issues' in the UK i.e. housing, 30 bn sterling shortfall in NHS funding, wealth inequality, the break up of the UK, jobs and salaries, etc..

All those 'issues' are a direct result of wholesale open door immigration.

[RustBucket]

She only wants freedom of movement so the majority actually end up in the UK rather than Germany!

If they keep allowing poor countries into the EU then they will continue to have economic migration which is not really what it was intended for!

I have a lot of work with Bulgarian companies. They have complained bitterly the last two years that 2million people have vanished since entering the EU. I guess in the longterm it is good for the poor one, but not so good for the rich.

Bulgaria isn't joining the EU fully till Jan 1st 2015. I think you will find they are in Italy. (at the moment).

Well.... total unrestricted free movement anyway.

I think there are about 30K already there at the moment.

Edited November 3, 2014 by RustBucket

[jpinx]

Interesting to read this thread along with this one.....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/773474-germany-struggles-to-adapt-to-immigrant-influx

[jpinx]

She only wants freedom of movement so the majority actually end up in the UK rather than Germany!

If they keep allowing poor countries into the EU then they will continue to have economic migration which is not really what it was intended for!

I have a lot of work with Bulgarian companies. They have complained bitterly the last two years that 2million people have vanished since entering the EU. I guess in the longterm it is good for the poor one, but not so good for the rich.

Bulgaria isn't joining the EU till Jan 1st 2015. I think you will find they are in Italy. (at the moment).

.....in Spain too

[hugocnx]

>>"What these people want is a one-world government. They know that can't cram it in so they are devoted to slowly slipping it in.

They believe that it will bring whirled peas world peace. The song "Imagine" from the 1960's when many of these people were developing:"<<

And Imagine who killed John Lennon...........

Edited November 3, 2014 by hugocnx

[clasship]

This is beacuse Cameron is running scared of UKIP and his own back bench MP's, it's a combination of posturing and cynical political expediency. There is no way Cameron wants out of the EU or, given his past track record, managing a sucessful renegotiation of the UK's membership of the EU.He is held in thrall to the Euro Sceptics in his party to which he has to pander

He recently used language like 'applying the hand brake' with regards to immigration, despite the fact that levels of immigration from EU countries are the same as they were during Labour.

TBH, I am sick and tired of this old re-fried, re-hashed immigration red herring, It dominates every discussion about UK domestic politics. It's a disraction from the 'real issues' in the UK i.e. housing, 30 bn sterling shortfall in NHS funding, wealth inequality, the break up of the UK, jobs and salaries, etc.

I agree with all your points, the UK is sinking into a debt spiral, half the newly borrowed funds are now going to pay the interest on the existing loans. The UK's % of debt to GDP is actually slightly higher than France's. There is a severe housing crisis, the NHS can not possibly continue to exist etc.

I really wanted to point out I did a driving tour of 15 European countries of a 23 week period this summer and I can day on my mums grave I never met anyone who had anything good to say about the EU and everyone wanted out and I do mean 100%, that included every German I met. The open door immigration was the number one issue, far fewer were worried about the EU being essential bust. As the debts continue to rise debt will become the number one issue. let's not forget the EU's auditors have refused to sign off the books for the last 19 years, what does that tell us?

[Scott]

Immigration is like water. It is essential for growth to a lot of countries, but uncontrolled it is destructive.

[cookee68]

I am so glad to be reading this.... My coffee tastes that much better this morning.

So Misery Merkel is 'threatening' to stop supporting Britain's membership of the EU?..... Lol.... Farage must be thinking all his Christmases have come at once.

Cameron will have nothing to put on the table to get the people of the UK to vote 'in' ..... Something he was banking on. The bare minimum would have had to be more flexibility in the movement rules. That won't happen now and he is going to have to resort to pure scaremongering, and Clegg already tried that in a head to head debate with Farage back in March/April..... and failed miserably.

Way to go Merkel. Help us out of the EU by all means. Because the way things are looking, once the UK is out, France won't be too far behind because their people have also had enough and the right wingers are on the march there too. So it will be France probably next, and after that Germany will be left to shore up 25 under-performing economies.

You got to hand it to the Germans... They have managed to turn the once 'common market' into the 'German Empire' and all without firing a single shot. I wonder what Germany is going to look like in 10 years?....... Probably bankrupt.

fantastic statement Sir, and I for one agree with you 100 percent, I am always puzzled as to why they will not stay in Germany, or France as they travel through their countries, surely those 2 countries have more to offer as regards to work, which is what they say they want to better their lives, so why the big, big rush to get to the UK, It is a strain already, and the out come will only lead to violence as time go,s on, hence the gangs now building of all nations.

[cookee68]

This is beacuse Cameron is running scared of UKIP and his own back bench MP's, it's a combination of posturing and cynical political expediency. There is no way Cameron wants out of the EU or, given his past track record, managing a sucessful renegotiation of the UK's membership of the EU.He is held in thrall to the Euro Sceptics in his party to which he has to pander

He recently used language like 'applying the hand brake' with regards to immigration, despite the fact that levels of immigration from EU countries are the same as they were during Labour.

TBH, I am sick and tired of this old re-fried, re-hashed immigration red herring, It dominates every discussion about UK domestic politics. It's a disraction from the 'real issues' in the UK i.e. housing, 30 bn sterling shortfall in NHS funding, wealth inequality, the break up of the UK, jobs and salaries, etc..

Well we all know where we are at the moment whilst in the EU, which is in the Shit, so lets leave the EU and see if we stay in the Shit, or come out smelling of roses, We know what is happening to the UK now that's what counts, not what you think will happen if we leave the EU, unless you have a crystal ball that really works.?

[shaurene]

I remember so much when they had the referendum to join the market it was all about doing so much trade and job safety if we join. I had 2 fruit and veg shops in the working areas in Merseyside and all the women coming into the shop said what do you think Ken, should we vote yes, I said if you want to pay 2-3 times more for your food then vote yes. We will be forced to buy all our stuff from these other country's at much higher prices, fish will be so dear and butter will be 3-4 times dearer. The 2 little books the government sent out, for the NO there were about 5 pages including the cover, for the yes there were about 20-30 pages making it sound so good.

They voted yes and look what happened, we left all our colony country's to fend for them selves when we stopped buying their stuff. We were made to buy sugar from the EU lot at 5 times the amount we could have bought on the world markets. The farmers were made to stop growing certain products because we were given a quota to cover other country's growing the same products.

And a referendum means nothing the government does not have to go along with it it has to be approve by the House and if you have a party in government that has the most seats they will not approve it if their leader tells them not to. Just a waste of tax money.

[emilymat]

I would confidently bet that David Cameron will not be PM next year. The 'referendum' will never take place.

[Mosha]

I would confidently bet that David Cameron will not be PM next year. The 'referendum' will never take place.

Santa help the party that denies the English a vote in a referendum. The Scottish Labour MPs being the guilty ones.

[maximillian]

Freedom of movement... Forget it, it's peanuts compared to what will come after CETA and TTIP have been signed and ratified.

The immigrants will be a minor problem compared to what problems and expenses on taxpayers back the big multinational companies will cause.

Here I agree with Mrs.Victoria Nuland: &lt;deleted&gt; the EU. But I would add: &lt;deleted&gt; the US as well.

Btw., I am ashamed of my German government and it's US-submissive policy. They want Ukrania in the EU. What for ? So it can join the NATO as the next step.

[PAWNEESE]

Errrrr ... Merkel is saying freedom of movement is one of the 3 basic principles of the EU.

Odd that this principle was not even mentioned before the 1976 referendum that the UK had. Join a trading block .. yes or no was the gist of the campaign and voting paper question. We have been shafted.

It morphed into a United States of Europe without the people being consulted. A few power crazed politicians were too scared to consult on their hidden agendas. Im not clever enough to work out why they want one huge country with one currency etc.

Its madness ... Just two examples ...People from poor countries in the EU can go to the UK and claim money for their children who remain in there own countries. Ah .. yes .. I remember that being explained in 76 ... not. Many schools in the UK have the situation where native English speakers are a tiny minority of the pupils.

But I am peeved they dont think the citizens of the UK are worthy of being consulted before they give our country away to all comers.

[7by7]

Freedom of movement within the EU is a two way street; British citizens benefit from it as well.

If the UK were to restrict the freedom of movement rights of other EU nationals into the UK, and especially if the UK were to leave the EU altogether; what would happen to the two million plus British citizens currently exercising their freedom of movement rights in other EU countries?

Two million British people emigrated to EU, figures show

Compared to the 2.3 million EU citizens in the UK, which includes people who came after Poland and nine other states joined the Union in 2004, British consular authorities estimate that 2.2 million Britons live in the other 26 EU countries, excluding Croatia, which joined in 2013.

Those figures, as the article says, are from 2010; I accept they may be different four years later, but doubt that the ratio has changed much.

<snip>
Under the present system of free handouts by the PC tw*ts (< that has an "a" in it) in government, and the lack of common sense in which countries should be allowed entry to the EU, this is bound to fail, and is already doing so - witness: the scenes at Calais...

Any EU national migrant coming to the UK expecting to get free handouts from the UK tax payer is going to be sorely disappointed!

Q&A: What benefits can EU migrants get?

The myth of migrants ‘flocking’ to Britain’s ‘soft touch’ benefits system

You will see from those two links that EU migrants need to have lived in the UK for at least three months before they can make a claim, and then, among other requirements, have to pass an habitual residency test to receive anything.

As for the people at Calais; they are non EU national asylum seekers. If they were EU nationals they could easily enter the UK any time they wished; just as British citizens can easily enter another EU country anytime they wish.

Edited for typos.

Edited November 3, 2014 by 7by7

[F430murci]

Immigration to developed economies is a common sense issue. Eventually, developed economies will stop permitting immigration from developing economies and establish a means test. Otherwise, this is nothing more than a wide open gate for freeloading, losers from undeveloped economies to be edit off the hard work of others. This easy immigration stuff just is not working anymore from both a cultural and economic perspective.

Tomorrow, the tides will start shifting in the US and we will start seeing changes and I expect other countries will soon follow. Enough is enough and there would be no need for the endless, mindless debates or further overburdening on government systems that should be set in place for its own people.

I would tend to believe that most immigrants from developed economies, US, UK and Germany, have means and are not leaving the US, UK or Germany to freeload off another country's system and people.

[iamariva1957]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't this whole question of the UK being in the EU be quashed if the British Pound was not stronger than the Euro? I have lived throughout Europe and in the UK and find that if I had the choice of living in either, say, France, Germany or elsewhere on the "Continent" or in the UK... I would pick anywhere other than the UK. But it is the fact that the Pound is stronger than the Euro and so it means that you will make more based upon the exchange rates and so more able to send more home or pocket. The work opportunities in the UK are not as varied as they are in the rest of the EU and there are more of them and a far greater choice of not only where to hang your hat, but also what to do or who to work for.

The UK is a small place compared to the rest of Europe. Yes it is a Nanny State and maybe more than anywhere else represented in Brussels. But the point is that the Pound is stranger and so is worth more. So the question remains, why shouldn't folks try for entry in the UK and benefit from the British desire to keep their currency. Level the playing field and the issue would simply drop away ... is my thinking.

I am just saying...........

[iamariva1957]

Immigration to developed economies is a common sense issue. Eventually, developed economies will stop permitting immigration from developing economies and establish a means test. Otherwise, this is nothing more than a wide open gate for freeloading, losers from undeveloped economies to be edit off the hard work of others. This easy immigration stuff just is not working anymore from both a cultural and economic perspective.

Tomorrow, the tides will start shifting in the US and we will start seeing changes and I expect other countries will soon follow. Enough is enough and there would be no need for the endless, mindless debates or further overburdening on government systems that should be set in place for its own people.

I would tend to believe that most immigrants from developed economies, US, UK and Germany, have means and are not leaving the US, UK or Germany to freeload off another country's system and people.

It is not all "freeloading". It is a simple matter of the British Pound being stronger in the exchange markets than the Euro or anyone else. Work in say, France and you are paid in Euros. Do the same work in the UK and you are paid in Pound Sterling. You do the math. I certainly would prefer to earn in Pounds even over Dollars. The same is true for our friends south of the border in the US. Yes, there are more 'opportunities' in the US over Mexico, but that is not the only driving force. For the Dollar is worth a hell of a lot more than the Peso and so what would you do? Where would you rather earn a living, or to follow you train of thought, "freeload"? The same is true for the European Nanny State... the UK.

[PAWNEESE]

Yes ... UK citizens including me go live in other countries. I respect your point.

All I would like is DEMOCRACY.

A strange concept to many particularly politicians I know. Consult us BEFORE huge changes. Dont give our country away by stealth to all.

I dont think I am asking for tooooooo much. But hey ho ... I dont worry about things I cant change. Just speak out and then go back to chilling.

Does any one remember the huge clamour for a United States of Europe with no borders. There was NONE.

But bit by bit it was imposed by a handful of politicians who tricked us.

They were too scared to ask us to vote on open borders.