102 Air India pilots found flying with lapsed licences

[MJP]

So many industries are plagued with this licence renewal shake down. My site guys are endlessly having to take silly tests and renew licences for plant they've been operating for years. It's a shylock business.

Plant operation is somewhat different from flying airline categofy aircraft!!

It definitely is. Just got that particular bee in the MJP bonnet yesterday. It's driving me crazy.

[cookee68]

What Flicking difference does it make. A lapsed license doesn't mean they forgot how to fly, only that they forgot to pay the tax.

That's where it all starts

[cookee68]

So what difference does a having a valid license vs lapsed license make?

When my car license expires do my driving skills suddenly become non existent overnight?

Did you know that most people who renew there driving license would fail a driving test if taken straight away again, things change

[mutha289]

The story is pretty vague, but I think what they are referring to is a lapsed medical (exam). A medical is not technically a license however it is a regulatory requirement which must be accomplished every six months for U.S. pilots over the age of 40. I believe that the civil aviation authorities of most other countries have similar medical requirements.

[F4UCorsair]

So what difference does a having a valid license vs lapsed license make?

When my car license expires do my driving skills suddenly become non existent overnight?

You're obviously not a pilot!!

Maintaining a pilot's licence, to the standard required by airlines, involves constant 'checking'/examinations. Generally there are four simulator checks, each of four hours duration, a year, and one in the aircraft type the pilot is flying, and that could be several sectors, maybe 6-8 hours duration, or if a long haul flight, up to 12-15 hours. Some airlines have two simulator 'encounters' each involving two days of four hours each, so effectively four simulator check each year, whilst some have four stand alone sessions. Some airlines have an additional simulator session of four hours to check Crew Resource Management skills.

Each simulator session is under examination conditions, and pilots can, and do, fail. A fail results in retraining of the failed sequences, and another four hour session under exam conditions. If a pilot fails consecutively, it often means he's looking for another job unless there are explainable, and good, reasons for it, e.g., a recent close family bereavement, or similar life trauma. If a pilot is a 'regular' failer, say three out of six, he would definitely be looking for another job in most airlines.

In addition to that there are classroom days, Crew Resource Management, Emergency Training, and Dangerous Goods Training, each of which involves a theory examination at the end of the day.

Simulator fidelity is such that you would swear you were in an aircraft. Visual displays are unbelievably realistic, airport ground traffic moves about as if it was a real airport, and natural features such as rain, of different intensities, fog, etc., can be simulated very realistically. You feel bumps as the 'aircraft' taxys out over cracks/joints in the pavement, engine noise proportional to the power setting, realistic aircraft movement in turbulence, the whirr of electric motors indicating flap motors running, thumps when the landing gear is retracted and extended, etc. It's not a Microsoft Flight Simulator, and they cost upwards of $30 Million, but only cost hundreds of $$ an hour to operate as opposed to $10,000+ per hour for a 747. Best of all, they can't be damaged in a hard landing or worse, a crash!!

Everybody is lazy, to a greater or lesser degree, and bad habits creep in, whether we want them to or not, e.g., probably 90% of the drivers can be considered bad because they don't use indicators, don't know the rules (not talking about countries like Thailand here!!), etc. The same applies to pilots. They forget some things, occasionally don't apply things as they should, and on it goes. Checks are to ensure that every pilot knows and applies the rules,and his/her flying standard is up to scratch. They are so intense that pilots feel wrung out when they finish a simulator check.

As for OPG's assertion that he's worried when he flys in India or China, I have flown with Indian pilots, but not in India, and they are among the best I've ever come across. They apply themselves with a diligence one doesn't often see. That may be because they operate in a country where the standard is high and enforced. If a standard is not enforced, that standard drops, inevitably.

When a pilot is in charge of an aircraft weighing 400+ tonnes (almost 600 for an A380), with 160+ tonnes of fuel on board, flying at Mach .9 (almost 1000 Kms/hr in still air), when things start to unwind, they unwind quickly, and if he's not at the top of his game, it's curtains for everybody on board. It is quite different from driving a truck or operating a piece of machinery.

Importantly as a poster above says, insurance would be invalid if the pilot involved in an incident/crash was not holding a current licence for whatever reason, and very few airlines could shoulder a loss of hundreds of millions of $$, and survive.

djhotsox, I agree. Flying skills won't immediately decline, but you will understand what I'm saying above, that pilots, like everybody, get lazy. Like it or not, it's true, and that's what checking is all about, maintaining the standard.

Edited November 5, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[F4UCorsair]

So what difference does a having a valid license vs lapsed license make?

When my car license expires do my driving skills suddenly become non existent overnight?

Did you know that most people who renew there driving license would fail a driving test if taken straight away again, things change

Exactly cookee, exactly!!!

[BernieOnTour]

Not really astonished... The List of Air India "irregularities" and near chrashes is endless.

Squared(LOS) = India

[MZurf]

What Flicking difference does it make. A lapsed license doesn't mean they forgot how to fly, only that they forgot to pay the tax.

Thank you. Exactly.

It seems people hate permanent education, this is to keep you doing things safe not doing it your own way because you have done it for many years.

If they retest people driving cars they will find some shocking things too.. people "forget" what they have been taught.

Some of these guys are their sixties, been doing the same job all their lives and they're still alive, uninjured.

It's getting ridiculous.

Then you don't know the first thing about risk management and should not be in a position where you have to make safety related decisions

[MJP]

^^ I know when it's got ridiculous.

[RubbaJohnny]

What is the insurance situation.

If an uninsured drunk 15 year old on an unfit unlit bike crashes into my vehicle and I have no insurance falang pays.

[ableguy]

What Flicking difference does it make. A lapsed license doesn't mean they forgot how to fly, only that they forgot to pay the tax.

Comment from a know all know nothing, from an ex pilot.