Is there a law about leaving Children with Relatives

[thesyndicate]

Is there a law about leaving Children with Relatives?

My wife have taken the child out of the home, leaving it with relatives and gone abroad. We are married the child is legally mine according to Thai law.

However I get all kind of different advice what I can do and what I can not do. Some say bring the army there to get her back kick the door in, some say bring the police ask them to give the child back other say file a report go home and go to court. I also got an advice that a child under the age of 3 year can not be left with other people than the parents but I have found no law backing that up. I also found no law regarding what I can do and can not do according to Thai law to bring my child back.

I understand I can not enter someone home but for F sake it is my child.

Edited November 5, 2014 by thesyndicate

[jacko45k]

Looks like a question for the lawyer.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Just go and collect your child.

You can leave a child with anyone, but either parent has the right to take the child away, at any time.

Pay a policeman 1,000bht to go with you, and that will prevent any discussion, make sure you can prove you are a parent.

[1FinickyOne]

Have you talked this over with the family? Grandparents raising kids here while the parents work is quite common. Did someone tell you that you can't raise your kid? That part of the story seems to be missing from the post. Are you on bad terms with the childs mother? I get the feeling there is much more to this than mentioned, but you should be able to raise your own child - good luck.

[scorecard]

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Just go and collect your child.

You can leave a child with anyone, but either parent has the right to take the child away, at any time.

Pay a policeman 1,000bht to go with you, and that will prevent any discussion, make sure you can prove you are a parent.

'.............but either parent has the right to take the child away, at any time."

Possibly true (I'm not a lawyer that's why I said 'possibly').

But is there a custody order from a court in this case?

Maybe you might need to go to court to get custody (I say again I'm not a lawyer) so don't go kicking doors in,

or similar.

Edited November 6, 2014 by scorecard

[Suradit69]

Just go and collect your child.

You can leave a child with anyone, but either parent has the right to take the child away, at any time.

Pay a policeman 1,000bht to go with you, and that will prevent any discussion, make sure you can prove you are a parent.

"Pay a policeman 1,000bht to go with you, and that will prevent any discussion..."

Yes, just randomly choose a policeman and offer him Baht 1000 to walk with you to someone's house and take a child away. Sounds like a plan. Maybe for Baht 2000 he'll give you a ride on his official policeman's motorbike too.

" ... and that will prevent any discussion ..."

Because no one would ever question a policeman standing behind a farang who wants to remove a child from someone's house.

Really strange smoke coming out of the farang fantasy factory these days.

[Liquorice]

It's quite normal for Thais to leave children with family members.

I think your being unduly over worried. The child will be well cared for and safe.

May I ask do you live together?

Has the wife gone abroad without your agreement and regaining the child may be an attempt to get your wife to return!

[atyclb]

A high credibility that lawyer (part of education in USA) one told me one the parent is holding the child the grandmother or other non parent cannot prevent that parent from taking his/her child. If the other parent objects then possible if the police get involved they can ask for a court order for a given parent. If the mom is abroad the father has the legal right (regardless of nationality) to have custody of the child unless the wife can show some compelling reason to the contrary such as criminal history, alcohol/drug addiction.

[AlQaholic]

Thai Law is Civil unlike UK law which is Common. This means the law is governed by rules more than precedents.

If both parents were married when the child was born (to each other presumably), and their names appear on the birth certificate, then BOTH exercise JOINTLY their parental powers.

The Father has the same rights as the Mother. And if one parent takes the child away, the other parent can certainly, in theory, ask the police to get the child back. But, in practice, the police will not interfere in family matters and they might tell the parent to address a request to the Court.

Again, the Court will decide according to what it judges to be in the best interests of the child. To be with the mother? To be with the father? Who should have physical custody and should the other parent have visitation rights and / or provide alimony for the child?

So if the Wife has left the Child with the Grandparents, this is a decision she has made with her "parental power", without agreement with the husband who has equal parental powers. One can argue then that the Husband have the right to take the child out of the situation with the Grandparents, but then he would do so without the consent of the wife, who has equal parental powers. So the only way out is to come to an agreement with the wife, or go to Court.

Another peculiar thing about Thai law: If the Father is on the Birth certificate, but not married with the mother, he has no "Parental Powers" whatsoever, as well as no responsibilities as well. This explains the frequent occurrence of Thai men abandoning their families without any repercussions whatsoever, it is all legal as long as they did not marry.

Edited November 6, 2014 by AlQaholic

[Liquorice]

If there married but separated the Mother must have legal custody.

It's all speculation until the OP posts more facts.

[AlQaholic]

If they are separated, but still married and biological Father and Mother, then both parents still have equal "Parental Powers" (and rights) under Thai Civil law until courts decide otherwise.

[Liquorice]

AlQaholic, on 06 Nov 2014 - 14:26, said:

If they are separated, but still married and biological Father and Mother, then both parents still have equal "Parental Powers" (and rights) under Thai Civil law until courts decide otherwise.

Agreed , but perhaps I should explain my thoughts in more detail.

1. If they live together, then it's a simple matter for the Police and his right to have the child returned.

2. If they are separated, then it's so easy for the mother/family to say she left the child with us because the father............................ In that case the Police wouldn't want to get further involved. The Father would have to go down the Court route, by which time the Mother will have probably returned from her trip abroad.

More details are required from the OP.

[thesyndicate]

The child missing, I assume it is with relatives. The mother is abroad with her new boyfriend, we are still married. We have equal right and you would assume my rights overpowers the relatives but it looks like a sibling have more right than other father or mother. The police like you say might or might now help it is up to the police really.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

So if the Wife has left the Child with the Grandparents, this is a decision she has made with her "parental power", without agreement with the husband who has equal parental powers. One can argue then that the Husband have the right to take the child out of the situation with the Grandparents, but then he would do so without the consent of the wife, who has equal parental powers. So the only way out is to come to an agreement with the wife, or go to Court.

That's just wrong, either parent can take their child from someone who isn't a parent.

If she isn't there, he can take the kid (and vice versa).

Permission can't be assigned by one parent to some third party, to deny the other parents rights.

If you ain't there, you have no say.

A lot of people on this thread posting incorrect information.

If you don't know, don't post.

Edited November 6, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The child missing, I assume it is with relatives. The mother is abroad with her new boyfriend, we are still married. We have equal right and you would assume my rights overpowers the relatives but it looks like a sibling have more right than other father or mother. The police like you say might or might now help it is up to the police really.

You have the right to take the child, if you can find them.

Which is why she has hidden the kid from you.

Find the kid, and take them.

No other way you will be seeing that child again.

[thesyndicate]

All the lawyers I ask say about the same thing but they also say they the mother can give rights to anybody to "take care the child" for her while she abroad. I find this very strange since there is no such law in Thailand. The law talks about mother father and legal guardian they are neither. I find the whole situation sad and absurd that even if I find the child the drunk sibling could say to me that he have more rights than me and gives the beer to the police.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

All the lawyers I ask say about the same thing but they also say they the mother can give rights to anybody to "take care the child" for her while she abroad. I find this very strange since there is no such law in Thailand. The law talks about mother father and legal guardian they are neither. I find the whole situation sad and absurd that even if I find the child the drunk sibling could say to me that he have more rights than me and gives the beer to the police.

That's why you employ 'muscle'.

You go, you find, you take.

No hesitation, no asking, no discussion, no time for them to call backup.

Once you have the kid, the police will do nothing for any third party.

Edited November 6, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[thesyndicate]

Thats been suggested as well to just go and take the Child but anybody who do that would or could face breaking and entering if the child inside a property. But like said here on the forum there is no law that the police or anybody can act on only court.

All the lawyers I ask say about the same thing but they also say they the mother can give rights to anybody to "take care the child" for her while she abroad. I find this very strange since there is no such law in Thailand. The law talks about mother father and legal guardian they are neither. I find the whole situation sad and absurd that even if I find the child the drunk sibling could say to me that he have more rights than me and gives the beer to the police.

That's why you employ 'muscle'.

You go, you find, you take.

No hesitation, no asking, no discussion, no time for them to call backup.

Once you have the kid, the police will do nothing for any third party.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Thats been suggested as well to just go and take the Child but anybody who do that would or could face breaking and entering if the child inside a property. But like said here on the forum there is no law that the police or anybody can act on only court.

All the lawyers I ask say about the same thing but they also say they the mother can give rights to anybody to "take care the child" for her while she abroad. I find this very strange since there is no such law in Thailand. The law talks about mother father and legal guardian they are neither. I find the whole situation sad and absurd that even if I find the child the drunk sibling could say to me that he have more rights than me and gives the beer to the police.

That's why you employ 'muscle'.

You go, you find, you take.

No hesitation, no asking, no discussion, no time for them to call backup.

Once you have the kid, the police will do nothing for any third party.

Counter claim you were rescuing your abducted child.

Living in fear of what might happen won't get your kid back.

Unfortunately there is no-one in Thailand you can ask for advice, Thai rak Thai.

They will never side with you against another Thai, lawyers and police are all against you (unless you make it worth their while).

Edited November 6, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[thesyndicate]

Let see whats going down in the future maybe on Thai News Farang strangle grandmother holding his baby, while Police drinking lao kao.

[AlQaholic]

I must agree with AnotherOneAmerican I think, in the absence of the mother, the Father should be able to exercise his legally legit "Parental Power" and go and get the Child. However when he stands outside the Grandparents house and tries to get the Child and they refuse, then it is not so easy, Cops will not get involved. Hence to Court we go.

In that situation, one should consider a way to recon the circumstances of the grandparents, chose the right moment for example when they are at a market or so, Quickly grab the kid and run for it. Once you have the Child the law is on your side.

In an Afterthought, I must also mention, Thailand is still a feudal society. This means if you can connect to or solicit help from some local strongman, Politician or Mafia, that will solve your situation completely.

I had a friend many years back who got cheated out of his house that he built by himself but did rent the land, so the land owner one day decided the house on the land belonged to him too, changed all locks and prevented the owner from access. He solicited help from the Royal house organization (legal section) through a friend and got it back finally after a few years, the cheating bastard came crawling back asking for forgiveness.

Edited November 6, 2014 by AlQaholic

[thesyndicate]

I think we all can agree that the law SHOULD be like this and I am not talking about a farang perspective I am talking about Thai Vs Thai as well. Even if you go to court it can take many years before the court is finished and in the meantime the mother is not there and the father can not see the child. I gave the court example like if I see the child on walking street pattaya with people in the middle of the night and I can take it? They said yes but no if there is a fight i can be charged but i have the right to take my child. But in the same time if the mother is ok with the child is on walking street at 03.00 in the morning I can not take it. The law need to be changed in Thailand leaving the father or mother to absolute power over their children if they are married. Relatives or proxy should not be allowed to have more power than the parents, unless they are legal guardians appointed by the courts but that is already covered in the Thai law.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I think we all can agree that the law SHOULD be like this and I am not talking about a farang perspective I am talking about Thai Vs Thai as well. Even if you go to court it can take many years before the court is finished and in the meantime the mother is not there and the father can not see the child. I gave the court example like if I see the child on walking street pattaya with people in the middle of the night and I can take it? They said yes but no if there is a fight i can be charged but i have the right to take my child. But in the same time if the mother is ok with the child is on walking street at 03.00 in the morning I can not take it. The law need to be changed in Thailand leaving the father or mother to absolute power over their children if they are married. Relatives or proxy should not be allowed to have more power than the parents, unless they are legal guardians appointed by the courts but that is already covered in the Thai law.

Another silly post!

In Thailand parents have rights, everyone else doesn't.

Problem is, foreign parents (men) are often weak, and the girls know it.

A Thai man wouldn't waste a second if he wanted his kid back, and anyone trying to stop him would be risking death.

[thesyndicate]

You are welcome to call the post silly but this is what the court says. But what is really silly is the Police not enforcing the law but to have a court order each time they need to do something that is the real crime here. Also the celebrities in Bangkok filling the courts with slander charges backing up the system for years with "you said he said" slanders. I saw how many people in the court yesterday and it was packed and it was probably all silly crimes and stupid stuff the court have to deal with.

I think we all can agree that the law SHOULD be like this and I am not talking about a farang perspective I am talking about Thai Vs Thai as well. Even if you go to court it can take many years before the court is finished and in the meantime the mother is not there and the father can not see the child. I gave the court example like if I see the child on walking street pattaya with people in the middle of the night and I can take it? They said yes but no if there is a fight i can be charged but i have the right to take my child. But in the same time if the mother is ok with the child is on walking street at 03.00 in the morning I can not take it. The law need to be changed in Thailand leaving the father or mother to absolute power over their children if they are married. Relatives or proxy should not be allowed to have more power than the parents, unless they are legal guardians appointed by the courts but that is already covered in the Thai law.

Another silly post!

In Thailand parents have rights, everyone else doesn't.

Problem is, foreign parents (men) are often weak, and the girls know it.

A Thai man wouldn't waste a second if he wanted his kid back, and anyone trying to stop him would be risking death.

[Liquorice]

Your treading in a very grey area here regards the law and your rights.

Your still married, but you don't live in the marital home. The fact that you left the child with the Mother, technically means she has 'parental custody' whereas you have 'parental rights' but not 'custody'

Divorced you could get a Child Custody Agreement by means of a Court Order.

Without any such written and witnessed agreement, your on a sticky wicket.

I certainly wouldn't consider force of any nature unless you want to end up with a knife in your back.

You don't know if the mother has appointed a legal guardian for the child.

Child custody issues can only be achieved by either the mutual consent of both parents or by a Court.

You appear to have neither.

[thesyndicate]

Wrong, she took the Child away from the home while I was sleeping, left it with relatives i assume and then left for abroad. So we have both custody and parental right the questions is can she use them for friends? Yes I would have known if the child has an guardian the court need to tell the father.

Your treading in a very grey area here regards the law and your rights.

Your still married, but you don't live in the marital home. The fact that you left the child with the Mother, technically means she has 'parental custody' whereas you have 'parental rights' but not 'custody'

Divorced you could get a Child Custody Agreement by means of a Court Order.

Without any such written and witnessed agreement, your on a sticky wicket.

I certainly wouldn't consider force of any nature unless you want to end up with a knife in your back.

You don't know if the mother has appointed a legal guardian for the child.

Child custody issues can only be achieved by either the mutual consent of both parents or by a Court.

You appear to have neither.

[Liquorice]

So you still live in the same house, which in effect is the child's residence as well?

[IMA_FARANG]

If they are separated, but still married and biological Father and Mother, then both parents still have equal "Parental Powers" (and rights) under Thai Civil law until courts decide otherwise.

-------------

Yes but they also have shared Parental Responsibilities.

One of those responsibilities is to send the child to a school.

IF the mother had the child in her custody, and refused to let the child attend a school, she would be in breach of her Parental Responsibilities.

She could then be taken to court as an "unfit mother".

But that would lead to a long, expensive, and possibly ultimately unsuccessful court fight.

This also works the same way if the father takes custody of the child, and he refuses to send the child to school in accordance with the law.

Edited November 7, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Your treading in a very grey area here regards the law and your rights.

Your still married, but you don't live in the marital home. The fact that you left the child with the Mother, technically means she has 'parental custody' whereas you have 'parental rights' but not 'custody'

Divorced you could get a Child Custody Agreement by means of a Court Order.

Without any such written and witnessed agreement, your on a sticky wicket.

I certainly wouldn't consider force of any nature unless you want to end up with a knife in your back.

You don't know if the mother has appointed a legal guardian for the child.

Child custody issues can only be achieved by either the mutual consent of both parents or by a Court.

You appear to have neither.

There has been no divorce, so no court order, therefore no grey area, and no permission needed.

Mom can't appoint any legal guardians, that isn't the way Thai law works.

He can collect the kid at any time, from any person, except mom.

She can collect the kid at any time from any person, except dad.

Thai law is completely and utterly clear on this matter.

Custody issues only arise after divorce, and court orders, there are none prior to that time.

At the moment, snatch, run and hide is the name of the game.

Edited November 7, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Liquorice]

thesyndicate, on 07 Nov 2014 - 10:04, said:

Wrong, she took the Child away from the home while I was sleeping, left it with relatives i assume and then left for abroad. So we have both custody and parental right the questions is can she use them for friends? Yes I would have known if the child has an guardian the court need to tell the father.

Left it with relatives I assume.

@AOA. The OP doesn't even know where the child is, it could still be with the mother.

That's why I asked the OP for more facts.

How does the OP know she went abroad? Somebody told him?

The OP isn't giving a full account of the situation here and your advocating 'snatch and grab'................from who?