Life is Cheaper than I Suspected – A Tale of Cancer

[Tony125]

I returned to the UK after all the anti government protests bankrupt our company. It was fortuitous as I was diagnozed with advanced prostate cancer T3b. This was in June. The doctors, consultants and everybody else involved in my journey have been fantastic. I was also fortunate enough (ironic that I'm thinking anything involved in this is "lucky" of fortunate) to be a patient at the Freeman Hospital in Newcastle, the UK's number 1 cancer care hospital. God only knows what would have been the outcome if this had been diagnozed in Thailand. Amoxicylin maybe? In my 15 years or so in Thailand I have been to hospital quite a few times and I never once had a positive experience. They are more interested in ripping the spine out of your back than offering any appropriate medication. It's criminal the way they roast the Farang for every baht possible and treating locals as if they are pondlife.

Cannot agree with you, used to get check ups at a couple of BKK hospitals and was treated quickly and courteously. At 7PM at night in the summer I had a heart attack, reg symptoms pain in chest left arm went numb : chewed 2 aspirins told my wife get me to a hospital fast ! She drove me to

vibhavadi hospital in Bangkok wich was 12 mins from where we were. Soon as we got to the hospital the attendants rushed me into emergency room. Before my wife had parked the car they had already diagnosed myocardial infarction and transported me to surgery. The cheif surgeon operated on me doing an angioplasty even let my wife come into the operating room to hold my hand to calm me down. Said I could watch the surgery on screen, He unblocked the artery put in a stent and next morning said they would watch me for 24 hrs and then I could go home.

I was put on exercise and diet but I am fine now and the nurses watched me all night to make sure I didn't move and pull out anything. Dr even drew a diagram to show what area of the heart he unblocked and made a CD so I could as he said show my friends what was done I go back now and then for follow up checks. He said my BP was a little high--I said if you take it should be lower than if your cute nurse who's leaning over me to take it. He laughed took it and it was 25 points lower

Edited November 8, 2014 by Tony125

[balo]

I have a friend who was told 14 years ago that he had six months to live because of prostate cancer that had spread and was untreatable. He did some research and came across an article about Dr. SImoncelli (spelling?) who was treating cancer with Baking soda. Now I know this sounds crazy but he looked further and learned a simple formula of Baking Soda and Maple syrup. His cancer is gone and he is still living. My sister got breast cancer 5 years ago and refused conventional treatment and she too used this protocol. She is alive and her cancer is gone. The following two links will explain it to you. Your MIL has nothing to lose by trying it and ju7st maybe, it will save here life.

Though the first link says to use Molasses, the second link uses Maple syrup which is available in Thailand but note it must be 100% pure Maple syrup.

http://drleonardcoldwell.com/2013/11/01/stage-4-cancer-gone-with-baking-soda-treatment/comment-page-1/

https://truthpills.wordpress.com/health/maple-syrupbaking-soda-trojan-horse/

I find this hard to believe. And there is no scientific documentation that it works.

Dr Simoncelli claims that cancer is caused by a fungus. He is not a real doctor is he ?

Read the warnings from cancertreatmentwatch ;

http://www.cancertreatmentwatch.org/reports/simoncini.shtml

[manarak]

^^^ That's evading the issue, which is the quality of treatment that is supposed to be made available to all and sundry. It is certainly not the kind of thing envisioned by Prince Mahidol. OP, it sounds to me that you have every right to lodge a complaint over this appalling treatment. The medical council - here are the phone numbers - Tel :(0)2590-1880-1, (0)2590-1884, (0)2590-1886-7, (0)2590-1888-9

Your GF should go back to that hospital and confront the doctor. He might be under a lot of pressure because of the ruinous Thaksin health scheme, but that is no excuse for treating an ill patient like cattle. Thoughts go with the GF's mother.

I appreciate your well thought out reply. Thank you.

She did call the hospital back and complained, but I already knew the answer before she told me. They didn't care. As is so often the case in this country (and for you apologists I do like some things about this country, nevertheless our plans to leave are already in the works) complaining never does any good. There is just no sense of "customer service" in this country. I have never heard of an employee getting in trouble for treating a customer badly. The doctor is the employee (probably treated like a God) and the employer is the hospital.

The only time things happen is when social media brings it to a wide audience or the news media gets a hold of it.

My GF will be taking her mother to a private hospital in BKK this week. This hospital is known for their cancer treatment to many Thais. I fear it's too late, but I certainly hope not because she is a wonderful lady; she is modest, unassuming and as sweet as they get.

Compassion and respect of patients' dignity should be guaranteed of course, and judging from your story the hospital and the doctor are certainly to blame for that.

One the other hand, I do not completely disagree with a health system system sending metastased cancer patients home with painkillers.

A health system has to fulfill its societal function of keeping 80 to 90% of its members alive and as healthy as possible within a reasonable budget.

[KonaRain]

I think the baking soda was not applicable to most cancers..

My friend died in intensive care in C.Mai, when home care would have been fine..

BBC reported yesterday that people lose their biome..friendly bacteria in intensive care..

They also have to keep the outside (skin)free of dangerous bugs..

Aloha

Edited November 8, 2014 by KonaRain

[callaway]

If it's so important for you why not paying an overpriced private hospital ?

For me I don't care and think that Thai are over boring with their parents problems !

Another one of the compassionate visitors to this country. I can see why Thai barely tolerate westerners when you have to hear from people of your ilk, ThaiSmarterThanYou. You are a Di$%head. Maybe it is because the Thais have very little money and will tell anyone who could possibly help about their problems with their parents. Just so needing to help their parents. I only wish the western children cared for parents in the same way. Sure there is many bullshit stories being told by bar girls but the legitimate ones I feel for. Having just been through my wifes fathers death a month ago I can see how devoted the chldren are to parents.So as far as I am concerned you can keep your bigoted bullshit inside your own disgusting mind. Thank you

[umbanda]

Every one worry about cancer or in a middle of a cancer treatment needs to read the report from the John Hopkins Medical Center.

Basically, WE all had malign cancer tumors in our body, up to 10 times, in our lifetime. Our bodies inmune system take care most of the times. Alternative treatments are very effective, but US doctors cannot use it. The "sytem" force them to use convencional treatments, and even surgery and radiation when it is not need it.

Money rules in the US and many western countries, and probably is the same here, but at least here you may find no convencional medicine.

I am a colon cancef survivor since 2007 .I rejected surgery. If I need to advice others, I will said. If not very bad syntoms, even with a cancer diagnoses, look for alternative cancer treatments yourself. Hospitals and most doctors will not use it.

It is a lot of information online.

Surgery, chemo, and radiation do not help at all. All the contrary. Only in few extreme cases will work. .

http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com/alerts_index/cancer/2669-1.html

Edited November 8, 2014 by umbanda

[ezzra]

If the Thai government will really, really, take care of it's poor, destitute and ailing multitudes on a daily

basis like they should in theory, they will be broke in less than a year,

Life in Thailand IS CHEAP, you learn pretty much from the firs few days after you have

arrived to these shores, The government can not possibly guarantees first class, or even second

class hospital care to it's citizens, simply not feasible, too many people with too many problems to

solve, and life continue as usual, if you can afford a better care, you live longer, if not...oh well...

[AlexRRR]

oneday you maybe upset and bitter but lets face the facts, it's a very emotional time for the family and very likley like most humans to play the blame game, the reality is just about every nation on earth medical system is streached to breaking point.

Give the medical profession a break, the hours they work the dramas they have to go through there are saints and sinners there too.

Good luck to your mother in law but in hindsight everything could always be handled better.

[bkkbudddy]

ezzra,

Ditto! Excellent comment. Mahalo

[soalbundy]

I use a private hospital in Surin, my son has been treated there twice, my wife three times and i have been a patient there with pneumonia, dengue fever and had an operation for a hernia i can only say i was pleased with the treatment and certainly didn't feel ripped off. The treatment was good and i had the feeling that the doctors were caring even though i noticed that they were overworked, i spoke to the surgeon about my hernia at 9 in the morning, he operated on me at 8 at night joking and smiling, all the staff in the OP took the trouble of introducing themselves and telling me what they would be doing. The resulting scar from the OP was so thin that i can now hardly see it.

[WitawatWatawit]

ezzra,

Ditto! Excellent comment. Mahalo

Is my comment above about devil's advocate (#26) correct? Or are you two just callous idiots? By making such nonsensical comments about the medical system, you are basically saying the poor should just go home and curl up and die. The OP, oneday, is showing a lot of compassion here - but he's also struggling to comprehend something which is throwing up obstacles to ensuring his mil gets treated correctly. And all you two clowns can do is try to denigrate his efforts and make excuses for a faulty system that will not be repaired unless people speak out - loudly and constantly. But not in the negative fashion you have adopted.

[soalbundy]

ezzra,

Ditto! Excellent comment. Mahalo

Is my comment above about devil's advocate (#26) correct? Or are you two just callous idiots? By making such nonsensical comments about the medical system, you are basically saying the poor should just go home and curl up and die. The OP, oneday, is showing a lot of compassion here - but he's also struggling to comprehend something which is throwing up obstacles to ensuring his mil gets treated correctly. And all you two clowns can do is try to denigrate his efforts and make excuses for a faulty system that will not be repaired unless people speak out - loudly and constantly. But not in the negative fashion you have adopted.

Everything has a price, you get what you pay for, here and in the west. Would you work for nothing ? My wife has been diagnosed with TB and goes twice daily to the local clinic for injections, since we have insurance i drove her to the private hospital in Surin after a few weeks and told the doctor what injections she was getting, he shook his head and said we can do a lot better than that. He prescribed the injections she should be getting and said the doctor at the clinic can do the injections as it is nearer for us and he would handle with the insurance directly so that we don't have to pay up front as the medicine is rather expensive. The Thai state simply can't afford the best, if you want it you have to pay or do you expect the doctor to pay out of his own pocket ?

[jpinx]

If the Thai government will really, really, take care of it's poor, destitute and ailing multitudes on a daily

basis like they should in theory, they will be broke in less than a year,

Life in Thailand IS CHEAP, you learn pretty much from the firs few days after you have

arrived to these shores, The government can not possibly guarantees first class, or even second

class hospital care to it's citizens, simply not feasible, too many people with too many problems to

solve, and life continue as usual, if you can afford a better care, you live longer, if not...oh well...

Healthcare for a nation requires the nation to be able to afford to take care of all the people that healthcare saves.

It's Hobsons choice. USA can't afford it, neither can UK. Thailand has no mass employment producing national wealth - no industrial base - so even if they managed better healthcare, they'd end up with far more people, at a far higher average age, and no financial ability to take care of them.

My sympathy is for the individuals who get caught up in this, but I have no solution. Many people who established the National Health system in UK commented on the fact that it was going to cost the country far more than the initial care of individuals. Now UK has has a higher average age, decreasing ability to cope with medical care and a huge bill for pensions and benefits which is attracting notice from around the world.

Individual responsibility is vastly reduced because there is a "safety net". People eat badly, smoke, drink excessively, etc, thereby adding to the pressure on the system. Obesity is rife, with all the associated issues which have to be attended to.

If a hospital has a budget limitation on the treatment it can give, there are deserving cases that should be fast-tracked, but who has the moral backbone to make those calls?

Edited November 9, 2014 by jpinx

[bkkbudddy]

WitawatWatawit,

Being compassionate is a finite term and money is infinite. In other words, compassion has a limit of what you can do but money is limitless!

[soalbundy]

WitawatWatawit,

Being compassionate is a finite term and money is infinite. In other words, compassion has a limit of what you can do but money is limitless!

Tell that to my bank in Germany, i'm overdrawn by 5,000 Euro's

[Tolley]

A lot of the private hospitals aren't any better than the public ones so you can still pay a lot of money and get poor treatment.

As for cancer treatment in many cases especially late stage cancer you might live longer by not going to the hospital at all.

[MediaWatcher]

carter1882, on 08 Nov 2014 - 21:38, said:

I returned to the UK after all the anti government protests bankrupt our company. It was fortuitous as I was diagnozed with advanced prostate cancer T3b. This was in June. The doctors, consultants and everybody else involved in my journey have been fantastic. I was also fortunate enough (ironic that I'm thinking anything involved in this is "lucky" of fortunate) to be a patient at the Freeman Hospital in Newcastle, the UK's number 1 cancer care hospital. God only knows what would have been the outcome if this had been diagnozed in Thailand. Amoxicylin maybe? In my 15 years or so in Thailand I have been to hospital quite a few times and I never once had a positive experience. They are more interested in ripping the spine out of your back than offering any appropriate medication. It's criminal the way they roast the Farang for every baht possible and treating locals as if they are pondlife.

Alwyn,

Your attitude is making me sick. I need a doctor.

I think you were "sick" long before reading Alwyn's comment. Time for you to grow up and mature beyond age 13.

[MediaWatcher]

Kitsune, on 08 Nov 2014 - 21:48, said:

Si Thea01, on 08 Nov 2014 - 21:39, said:

bkkbudddy, on 08 Nov 2014 - 09:10, said:

one day,

Instead of complaining, why don't you give your girlfriend some money for her mother's cancer treatment at a private hospital?

What a low life you are. Read again what the Op had to say and maybe you will see what you have missed. To highlight poor treatment is not complaining and he is right about private hospitals, milking the patient for what it is worth. I have insurance and experienced this first hand, charged me 60,000 baht over and above what the insurer paid. Why, because they could.

You do not know the OP's circumstances, can he afford or can he not afford to help. I believe he would do his best for the family but do you know. You strike me as a poor excuse for a human, not a compassionate bone in your body.

I am fired up because I experienced a loss of a loved one from this insidious disease and then I read your crap.. I cared for my wife of twenty two years for her last five years before she passed on from breast cancer. I hope you never have to have such an experience where you see a perfectly healthy women go from 70 kilos to 36 kilos in less than a year and stay this way until she passed away four years later.

Just remember, karma is a funny thing,

breast cancer is dairy, not karma

https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/health-science/stars/stars-written/ruth-heidrich/

I would suggest you don't post links to obvious commercial sites, they have their own agenda.. if a cure was so easy don't you think, mmm, all patients would be on this diet...the answer is they are NOT. Do not recommend treatment, such as this, unless you, personally, have had to take it...otherwise you put vulnerable peoples lives at risk.

[MediaWatcher]

benalibina, on 08 Nov 2014 - 22:26, said:

Alwyn, on 08 Nov 2014 - 20:51, said:

I returned to the UK after all the anti government protests bankrupt our company. It was fortuitous as I was diagnozed with advanced prostate cancer T3b. This was in June. The doctors, consultants and everybody else involved in my journey have been fantastic. I was also fortunate enough (ironic that I'm thinking anything involved in this is "lucky" of fortunate) to be a patient at the Freeman Hospital in Newcastle, the UK's number 1 cancer care hospital. God only knows what would have been the outcome if this had been diagnozed in Thailand. Amoxicylin maybe? In my 15 years or so in Thailand I have been to hospital quite a few times and I never once had a positive experience. They are more interested in ripping the spine out of your back than offering any appropriate medication. It's criminal the way they roast the Farang for every baht possible and treating locals as if they are pondlife.

Sad to read your whole post. 1st of all regarding your illness. It must have been quite a shocker for you and worrysome time. 2nd of all ...your experiences with the thai medical profession. As stated before communication is not a strong point of doctors in general, in native language too thus, and cultural differences and crossing language barriers makes it difficult as well. Ofcourse thai private hospitals are in it to make money and they can cross the line to extract money from patients. My experiences, from 1998 and 90% in Phuket with the thai medical profession are mixed. Children related over the whole they were good apart from 1 bad experience but luckily enough i had my witts about, searching internet and speaking to doctors in my homecountry, and a second opinion prevented future damage to my daughters breastarea.

If not for thai doctors ...i would have been dead 15 years ago.......money, insurance thus, made them continue for hours to save my life. In my homecountry they would have stopped to resuscitate me after a while.

So yes money is a driving force but quality is there and one needs to think critically themselves, alot more than needed in the West, and speaking the lingo helps.

" In my homecountry they would have stopped to resuscitate me after a while." you have absolutely no proof that this would have happened, it seems you just need to justify your living in Thailand

[MediaWatcher]

AlexRRR, on 09 Nov 2014 - 08:28, said:

oneday you maybe upset and bitter but lets face the facts, it's a very emotional time for the family and very likley like most humans to play the blame game, the reality is just about every nation on earth medical system is streached to breaking point.

Give the medical profession a break, the hours they work the dramas they have to go through there are saints and sinners there too.

Good luck to your mother in law but in hindsight everything could always be handled better.

The problem being, doctors bury their "mistakes", do you really want to be one of their "mistakes" simple because of the hours they work, I am guessing "no".. would you "accept" a family member dying simply because of the hours doctors work... once again, I am guessing "no."

[steve187]

OP all the best for your MIL

some people on TVF do not engage brain before typing and i wonder why they are associated with Thailand at all, i think they fail to see the importance that Thai people place on family members, something that the west has forgotten over the years, as they neatly tuck older members away in nursing/residential homes, paying a duty visit once in a while

[MediaWatcher]

steve187, on 09 Nov 2014 - 11:10, said:

OP all the best for your MIL

some people on TVF do not engage brain before typing and i wonder why they are associated with Thailand at all, i think they fail to see the importance that Thai people place on family members, something that the west has forgotten over the years, as they neatly tuck older members away in nursing/residential homes, paying a duty visit once in a while

Rubbish... granted there are many in nursing homes, and they are there for very good reasons, not simply because the families do not care...BUT the vast majority still live an independent life with the "help" of their families. I hope YOU intend returning to your home country to look after aged family members.

[soalbundy]

OP all the best for your MIL

some people on TVF do not engage brain before typing and i wonder why they are associated with Thailand at all, i think they fail to see the importance that Thai people place on family members, something that the west has forgotten over the years, as they neatly tuck older members away in nursing/residential homes, paying a duty visit once in a while

From my experience this ''love'' for the family is over hyped, they are no different to the west, in some cases worse. My father in law is an alcoholic and has liver cancer and seems to be getting very senile,when i asked the wife what we would be expected to do if he got Alzheimers, she said ''Nothing, i would cook up the age old herbal ''medicine'' and mama would give it to him,after a few days he would be dead''

[NoshowJones]

one day,

Instead of complaining, why don't you give your girlfriend some money for her mother's cancer treatment at a private hospital?

It is very wrong of you to accuse the OP of complaining, one day you may be in his shoes. How do you know the financial situation of the OP? Try and show a little compassion.

[NoshowJones]

I returned to the UK after all the anti government protests bankrupt our company. It was fortuitous as I was diagnozed with advanced prostate cancer T3b. This was in June. The doctors, consultants and everybody else involved in my journey have been fantastic. I was also fortunate enough (ironic that I'm thinking anything involved in this is "lucky" of fortunate) to be a patient at the Freeman Hospital in Newcastle, the UK's number 1 cancer care hospital. God only knows what would have been the outcome if this had been diagnozed in Thailand. Amoxicylin maybe? In my 15 years or so in Thailand I have been to hospital quite a few times and I never once had a positive experience. They are more interested in ripping the spine out of your back than offering any appropriate medication. It's criminal the way they roast the Farang for every baht possible and treating locals as if they are pondlife.

I have read and agree with most of your posts Alwyn, and would just take this opportunity to wish you all the best and a speedy recovery.

[micmichd]

If you can afford it, you might want to get a second opinion from a doctor who is experienced enough and not after career anymore, ie. from a professor, or from a doctor who experienced the same disease him- or herself and survived.

You will need arguments if you complain about a doctor.

[oneday]

^^^ That's evading the issue, which is the quality of treatment that is supposed to be made available to all and sundry. It is certainly not the kind of thing envisioned by Prince Mahidol. OP, it sounds to me that you have every right to lodge a complaint over this appalling treatment. The medical council - here are the phone numbers - Tel :(0)2590-1880-1, (0)2590-1884, (0)2590-1886-7, (0)2590-1888-9

Your GF should go back to that hospital and confront the doctor. He might be under a lot of pressure because of the ruinous Thaksin health scheme, but that is no excuse for treating an ill patient like cattle. Thoughts go with the GF's mother.

I appreciate your well thought out reply. Thank you.

She did call the hospital back and complained, but I already knew the answer before she told me. They didn't care. As is so often the case in this country (and for you apologists I do like some things about this country, nevertheless our plans to leave are already in the works) complaining never does any good. There is just no sense of "customer service" in this country. I have never heard of an employee getting in trouble for treating a customer badly. The doctor is the employee (probably treated like a God) and the employer is the hospital.

The only time things happen is when social media brings it to a wide audience or the news media gets a hold of it.

My GF will be taking her mother to a private hospital in BKK this week. This hospital is known for their cancer treatment to many Thais. I fear it's too late, but I certainly hope not because she is a wonderful lady; she is modest, unassuming and as sweet as they get.

Compassion and respect of patients' dignity should be guaranteed of course, and judging from your story the hospital and the doctor are certainly to blame for that.

One the other hand, I do not completely disagree with a health system system sending metastased cancer patients home with painkillers.

A health system has to fulfill its societal function of keeping 80 to 90% of its members alive and as healthy as possible within a reasonable budget.

Painkillers? The same stuff you can get at a 7/11...useless to kill real pain.

But you missed the point of the story. It was HOW THE MESSAGE WAS DELIVERED and WHEN, not that she had to go home.

Edited November 9, 2014 by oneday

[jpinx]

^^^ That's evading the issue, which is the quality of treatment that is supposed to be made available to all and sundry. It is certainly not the kind of thing envisioned by Prince Mahidol. OP, it sounds to me that you have every right to lodge a complaint over this appalling treatment. The medical council - here are the phone numbers - Tel :(0)2590-1880-1, (0)2590-1884, (0)2590-1886-7, (0)2590-1888-9

Your GF should go back to that hospital and confront the doctor. He might be under a lot of pressure because of the ruinous Thaksin health scheme, but that is no excuse for treating an ill patient like cattle. Thoughts go with the GF's mother.

I appreciate your well thought out reply. Thank you.

She did call the hospital back and complained, but I already knew the answer before she told me. They didn't care. As is so often the case in this country (and for you apologists I do like some things about this country, nevertheless our plans to leave are already in the works) complaining never does any good. There is just no sense of "customer service" in this country. I have never heard of an employee getting in trouble for treating a customer badly. The doctor is the employee (probably treated like a God) and the employer is the hospital.

The only time things happen is when social media brings it to a wide audience or the news media gets a hold of it.

My GF will be taking her mother to a private hospital in BKK this week. This hospital is known for their cancer treatment to many Thais. I fear it's too late, but I certainly hope not because she is a wonderful lady; she is modest, unassuming and as sweet as they get.

Compassion and respect of patients' dignity should be guaranteed of course, and judging from your story the hospital and the doctor are certainly to blame for that.

One the other hand, I do not completely disagree with a health system system sending metastased cancer patients home with painkillers.

A health system has to fulfill its societal function of keeping 80 to 90% of its members alive and as healthy as possible within a reasonable budget.

Painkillers? The same stuff you can get at a 7/11...useless to kill real pain.

But you missed the point of the story. It was HOW THE MESSAGE WAS DELIVERED and WHEN, not that she had to go home.

I know when my sister was a nurse in a busy hospital doing all manner of shifts, she didn't have a clue what time of day or night it was. Without wishing to defend the indefensible, maybe the doctor had a similar problem given that they are over-worked to a ridiculous extent

[Alwyn]

I returned to the UK after all the anti government protests bankrupt our company. It was fortuitous as I was diagnozed with advanced prostate cancer T3b. This was in June. The doctors, consultants and everybody else involved in my journey have been fantastic. I was also fortunate enough (ironic that I'm thinking anything involved in this is "lucky" of fortunate) to be a patient at the Freeman Hospital in Newcastle, the UK's number 1 cancer care hospital. God only knows what would have been the outcome if this had been diagnozed in Thailand. Amoxicylin maybe? In my 15 years or so in Thailand I have been to hospital quite a few times and I never once had a positive experience. They are more interested in ripping the spine out of your back than offering any appropriate medication. It's criminal the way they roast the Farang for every baht possible and treating locals as if they are pondlife.

I have read and agree with most of your posts Alwyn, and would just take this opportunity to wish you all the best and a speedy recovery.

Thanks for the kind words, I'm sure all will be good in the end!

[off road pat]

Yeah it's amazing the way things work here sometimes. I hear that sometimes the ambulances will bring people to the hospital that pays more money, and not necessarily the closest one or good one. A thai friend of mine got into a motorcycle accident, and there was a hospital accross the street. They brought him to hospital farther away that's known for having crappy doctors, however the hospital pays one of the highest ambulance commissions.

Yes, this is often the case.....!!!!...Sadly.....