Koh Tao suspects to be indicted by end of month

[Krenjai]

Can I just say this I have it on good authority from contacts in Thai Military police after their behind the radar investigation that the case went down this way.

Hannah was getting hassled in the AC bar by bar 'security' (who are connected to the run businesses on the Island). They tried to slip a 'roofie' or some such date rape drug in her drink. She was targeted from the moment she walked in. David intervened and escorted her back to their accommodation where they were followed by at least 4 local Thai known wannabe hard men . They were assaulted in the hostel I.e David was rendered unconscious ( this has also been told to Army by very scared staff) And both taken to the beach where David was left to drown and Hannah brutalised and savagely killed. The culprits went to 'higher authority' and money quickly changed hands locally then to Sura Thani and then Bangkok all before the crime scene was discovered and sealed. The fiasco as you know carried on from there. The 2 Myanmar lads will in all likelihood and I quote ' be found to have committed suicide in detention in the near future'. Too much money passed over to police in high authority for them to retract their story go figure. I was asked to leak to British press to put pressure on Thai justice system and after 4 emails I got no reply. Whether that was thru internet censorship I do not know. The Thai army cannot corroborate their investigation as they will be shut down by police on a higher level. Everyone local on Koh Tao knows the real culprits but are running scared. The solution maybe to but a 10 million baht price tag on their heads because these scum would sell out their own mother for twenty thousand. But that is the way it went as we all know. Bout time the Thai justice system manned up and sorted out these so called mafia hoodlums once and for all. God even the mafia had a code of honour. Well I await the death threats and mysterious accidents which may befall me in this land of ( false) smiles. But enough is enough there are many decent Thai people in this beautiful country but it is time to clean house the hard way and permanently. I hope one of you can at least get this out to some press somewhere as to me it seems the correct version of events. I'm sure the British police were only shown what they needed to. Enough is enough time for change Thailand

This scenario ticks ALL the boxes!!

1) The murder did not take place at where they were found V

2) The Burmese community on Koh Tao mentioned they were murdered at their guest house V

3) The bruises on Hannahs arm suggest she was carried to the beach V

4) The angles on which her legs were found suggest a cover up V

5) The wounds on Davis are clearly from these fish-hook weapons and it was very likely a lefthanded attacker. V

6) Sean said I know you wanted to save her! Did he see them leave together? Did he know what was going on? V

7) Date rape drugs were often used before in AC, what they call them? A roofie?? Sean, please explain how they work? V

8) David had water in his lungs. V

9)

10,11,12,13,..............100 VVVVVV

It ticks all the boxes! YES, very likely it went down like this and YES the RTP knows but the influence and the MONEY made the U-turn possible!

I am just waiting for another U-turn and when that one comes the whole thing will explode in their cover-up faces!

This case is SOOOOOOOOOOO filthy, it makes me puke!

[Krenjai]

Can I just say this I have it on good authority from contacts in Thai Military police after their behind the radar investigation that the case went down this way.

Hannah was getting hassled in the AC bar by bar 'security' (who are connected to the run businesses on the Island). They tried to slip a 'roofie' or some such date rape drug in her drink. She was targeted from the moment she walked in. David intervened and escorted her back to their accommodation where they were followed by at least 4 local Thai known wannabe hard men . They were assaulted in the hostel I.e David was rendered unconscious ( this has also been told to Army by very scared staff) And both taken to the beach where David was left to drown and Hannah brutalised and savagely killed. The culprits went to 'higher authority' and money quickly changed hands locally then to Sura Thani and then Bangkok all before the crime scene was discovered and sealed. The fiasco as you know carried on from there. The 2 Myanmar lads will in all likelihood and I quote ' be found to have committed suicide in detention in the near future'. Too much money passed over to police in high authority for them to retract their story go figure. I was asked to leak to British press to put pressure on Thai justice system and after 4 emails I got no reply. Whether that was thru internet censorship I do not know. The Thai army cannot corroborate their investigation as they will be shut down by police on a higher level. Everyone local on Koh Tao knows the real culprits but are running scared. The solution maybe to but a 10 million baht price tag on their heads because these scum would sell out their own mother for twenty thousand. But that is the way it went as we all know. Bout time the Thai justice system manned up and sorted out these so called mafia hoodlums once and for all. God even the mafia had a code of honour. Well I await the death threats and mysterious accidents which may befall me in this land of ( false) smiles. But enough is enough there are many decent Thai people in this beautiful country but it is time to clean house the hard way and permanently. I hope one of you can at least get this out to some press somewhere as to me it seems the correct version of events. I'm sure the British police were only shown what they needed to. Enough is enough time for change Thailand

This scenario ticks ALL the boxes!!

1) The murder did not take place at where they were found V

2) The Burmese community on Koh Tao mentioned they were murdered at their guest house V

3) The bruises on Hannahs arm suggest she was carried to the beach V

4) The angles on which her legs were found suggest a cover up V

5) The wounds on Davis are clearly from these fish-hook weapons and it was very likely a lefthanded attacker. V

6) Sean said I know you wanted to save her! Did he see them leave together? Did he know what was going on? V

7) Date rape drugs were often used before in AC, what they call them? A roofie?? Sean, please explain how they work? V

8) David had water in his lungs. V

9)

10,11,12,13,..............100 VVVVVV

It ticks all the boxes! YES, very likely it went down like this and YES the RTP knows but the influence and the MONEY made the U-turn possible!

I am just waiting for another U-turn and when that one comes the whole thing will explode in their cover-up faces!

This case is SOOOOOOOOOOO filthy, it makes me puke!

Sean, don't bother, I know how "Roofies" work now...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=roofies

[Krenjai]

Can I just say this I have it on good authority from contacts in Thai Military police after their behind the radar investigation that the case went down this way.

Hannah was getting hassled in the AC bar by bar 'security' (who are connected to the run businesses on the Island). They tried to slip a 'roofie' or some such date rape drug in her drink. She was targeted from the moment she walked in. David intervened and escorted her back to their accommodation where they were followed by at least 4 local Thai known wannabe hard men . They were assaulted in the hostel I.e David was rendered unconscious ( this has also been told to Army by very scared staff) And both taken to the beach where David was left to drown and Hannah brutalised and savagely killed. The culprits went to 'higher authority' and money quickly changed hands locally then to Sura Thani and then Bangkok all before the crime scene was discovered and sealed. The fiasco as you know carried on from there. The 2 Myanmar lads will in all likelihood and I quote ' be found to have committed suicide in detention in the near future'. Too much money passed over to police in high authority for them to retract their story go figure. I was asked to leak to British press to put pressure on Thai justice system and after 4 emails I got no reply. Whether that was thru internet censorship I do not know. The Thai army cannot corroborate their investigation as they will be shut down by police on a higher level. Everyone local on Koh Tao knows the real culprits but are running scared. The solution maybe to but a 10 million baht price tag on their heads because these scum would sell out their own mother for twenty thousand. But that is the way it went as we all know. Bout time the Thai justice system manned up and sorted out these so called mafia hoodlums once and for all. God even the mafia had a code of honour. Well I await the death threats and mysterious accidents which may befall me in this land of ( false) smiles. But enough is enough there are many decent Thai people in this beautiful country but it is time to clean house the hard way and permanently. I hope one of you can at least get this out to some press somewhere as to me it seems the correct version of events. I'm sure the British police were only shown what they needed to. Enough is enough time for change Thailand

This scenario ticks ALL the boxes!!

1) The murder did not take place at where they were found V

2) The Burmese community on Koh Tao mentioned they were murdered at their guest house V

3) The bruises on Hannahs arm suggest she was carried to the beach V

4) The angles on which her legs were found suggest a cover up V

5) The wounds on Davis are clearly from these fish-hook weapons and it was very likely a lefthanded attacker. V

6) Sean said I know you wanted to save her! Did he see them leave together? Did he know what was going on? V

7) Date rape drugs were often used before in AC, what they call them? A roofie?? Sean, please explain how they work? V

8) David had water in his lungs. V

9)

10,11,12,13,..............100 VVVVVV

It ticks all the boxes! YES, very likely it went down like this and YES the RTP knows but the influence and the MONEY made the U-turn possible!

I am just waiting for another U-turn and when that one comes the whole thing will explode in their cover-up faces!

This case is SOOOOOOOOOOO filthy, it makes me puke!

Sean, don't bother, I know how "Roofies" work now...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=roofies

kcirtapyelrah, on 09 Nov 2014 - 18:10, said:

Someone posted on here a couple of weeks ago that the murders took place in David or Hanna’s apartment, it appeared to be a locals viewpoint and they stated there was at least five perpetrator, one being a policeman, it was also claimed that the bodies were carried down to the beach and dumped their, which would explain the position of Hannah’s body. It takes a vivid imagination to fabricate something like that don’t you think, it’s not the sort of thing you come up with out of the blue.

I would like to know if water was actually found in David’s lungs and if it so, was it saltwater or freshwater, there’s no smoke without fire as far as I'm concerned. There are obviously locals on the island who know exactly what happened, nothing happens in Thailand without the locals knowing.

Most people realise that it would have be impossible for the two Burmese shrimps to have dealt with six-foot three of David with Hanna running around screaming her head off, it would have been impossible if Hanna wasn't there, they never would have had the confidence or ability to deal with a situation like that. The truth will be known and justice will be done one way or another.

They put the skids under Sean McAnna and got him out of the way before he put the finger on anyone.

OK WE ALL KNOW MORE OR LESS HOW IT HAPPENED, SO HOW DO WE PROVE THIS? (I am afraid we cannot).

[balo]

Never judge a book the the cover it's true, but a certain man with a shark tooth ring is worth investigating

A resident of the island, who reportedly fled after the murders and only recently returned.

At least 3 people took part in those murders, 2 well known people have been widely speculated to be suspects, I think they also have strong links link with shark ring man.

Shark tooth man was also named as an alleged rapist of a Thai Lady on Koh Tao.

Really ? And can you give me any good explanation why the killer would return to the island now ? Especially when B2 has denied they had anything to do with it?

Edited November 9, 2014 by balo

[seahorse]

For the information of the gang arguing/debating the interrogation site of the Burmese suspects and their friend who has been released . . .

Reports from from October 3, the day of the crime scene re-enactment, said the following:

• At 9 pm on Wednesday, Oct. 1, the suspect named Wyn left Koh Tao
• At 6 am on Thursday, Oct. 2, Wyn was captured on the main wharf in Nakhon Surat Thani.
• Wyn was then taken to the Provincial Police Region 8 investigation centre
• Wyn was questioned at the Provincial Police Region 8 investigation centre for five hours.
• The media were not allowed to approach the Provincial Police Region 8 investigation centre or take photos
• At 9 p.m. on Thursday, Oct. 2, the suspect named Saw and his friend Mau (the witness who was cleared) were detained on Koh Tao.
• By the time Saw and Mau were detained, Wyn's confession had already leaked (3 hours earlier) from police offices in Surat Thani and Bangkok.
• On Friday morning, Oct. 3, it was announced that DNA samples obtained from Wyn and Saw matched that of DNA found on Hannah's body, and that both had now confessed
• Later on Friday, Oct. 3. the re-enactment took place on Sairee Beach in Koh Tao

Begs a lot of questions ... have at it.

Edit: There are no quotes from or links to any news source in this comment.

Police detain three migrant workers on Koh Tao for DNA test

October 2, 2014 1:23 pm

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Police-detain-three-migrant-workers-on-Koh-Tao-for-30244607.html

DNA samples from two Myanmar workers match with those collected from British victim

October 3, 2014 9:00 am

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/DNA-samples-from-two-Myanmar-workers-match-with-th-30244677.html

200 policemen deployed to guard two Myanmar men on Toh Tao

October 3, 2014 1:13 pm

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/200-policemen-deployed-to-guard-two-Myanmar-men-on-30244684.html

Amazing work by the RTP.

[thailandchilli]

Heyexile@

Yes, good point. Pm obviously believes/believed that he and Pol Comm Gen can created DNA truth will fit the desired result. Powerful men, responsible to no one, do not expect to have their version of `truth` challenged by anyone. Anyhow PM and Somyot announced publicly DNA fits 2 scapegoats.

What date was Time interview? I guess the generals can always fall back on lost samples, accidental contamination, procedural error by Police Division 8 and roll a head if they are somehow forced to. But who/what can sway these virtuous men? Not a disenfranchised electorate, investigative journalism or intimidated academia.

Not sure if it actually went into Time, but it was a Time reporter that the PM was talking to. I cannot give you the link to the article however as TV does not allow but if you put the entire quote in Google search the link to it will come up:

"If we rush them [the police] too much, the wrong suspects will be arrested. We're trying to base the probe on scientific evidence as much as we can, and no one will be made a scapegoat. If their DNA does not match, they are not suspects,"

[thailandchilli]

Can I just say this I have it on good authority from contacts in Thai Military police after their behind the radar investigation that the case went down this way.

Hannah was getting hassled in the AC bar by bar 'security' (who are connected to the run businesses on the Island). They tried to slip a 'roofie' or some such date rape drug in her drink. She was targeted from the moment she walked in. David intervened and escorted her back to their accommodation where they were followed by at least 4 local Thai known wannabe hard men . They were assaulted in the hostel I.e David was rendered unconscious ( this has also been told to Army by very scared staff) And both taken to the beach where David was left to drown and Hannah brutalised and savagely killed. The culprits went to 'higher authority' and money quickly changed hands locally then to Sura Thani and then Bangkok all before the crime scene was discovered and sealed. The fiasco as you know carried on from there. The 2 Myanmar lads will in all likelihood and I quote ' be found to have committed suicide in detention in the near future'. Too much money passed over to police in high authority for them to retract their story go figure. I was asked to leak to British press to put pressure on Thai justice system and after 4 emails I got no reply. Whether that was thru internet censorship I do not know. The Thai army cannot corroborate their investigation as they will be shut down by police on a higher level. Everyone local on Koh Tao knows the real culprits but are running scared. The solution maybe to but a 10 million baht price tag on their heads because these scum would sell out their own mother for twenty thousand. But that is the way it went as we all know. Bout time the Thai justice system manned up and sorted out these so called mafia hoodlums once and for all. God even the mafia had a code of honour. Well I await the death threats and mysterious accidents which may befall me in this land of ( false) smiles. But enough is enough there are many decent Thai people in this beautiful country but it is time to clean house the hard way and permanently. I hope one of you can at least get this out to some press somewhere as to me it seems the correct version of events. I'm sure the British police were only shown what they needed to. Enough is enough time for change Thailand

This screams INVESTIGATE INVESTIGATE INVESTIGATE.

I also read a similar version from the Burmese community living in Koh Tao. But that also went onto say that the B2 were forced to help carry the bodies and so their DNA could well be on them as a result?

Another report I read was that the UK police have already been given or discovered this version of the murders.

[BoristheBlade]

You could offer a Billion Baht, nothing is going to change.

Dear leader won't allow himself to loose face.

Don't forget who personally chose the chief of police. He, dear leader already insulted Hanna, and all women for that matter. The World and his wife were disgusted by the totally ignorant, unnecessary Bikini comment and forced him in to what he described as an apology, although the wording of it, some might find far from an apology.

The real perpetrators of this crime WONT be served justice.

This disgusting crime goes to the very top of Thai Society.

Money is No1 in Thailand. if any doubted that, this case has ended all doubt.

This is an evil country, run by evil people, whatever the colour of their shirt. They have no morals or decency

The real and honest people of Thailand are treated like surfs. expendable and worthless.

The rulers should hang their heads in shame,

Can I just say this I have it on good authority from contacts in Thai Military police after their behind the radar investigation that the case went down this way.
Hannah was getting hassled in the AC bar by bar 'security' (who are connected to the run businesses on the Island). They tried to slip a 'roofie' or some such date rape drug in her drink. She was targeted from the moment she walked in. David intervened and escorted her back to their accommodation where they were followed by at least 4 local Thai known wannabe hard men . They were assaulted in the hostel I.e David was rendered unconscious ( this has also been told to Army by very scared staff) And both taken to the beach where David was left to drown and Hannah brutalised and savagely killed. The culprits went to 'higher authority' and money quickly changed hands locally then to Sura Thani and then Bangkok all before the crime scene was discovered and sealed. The fiasco as you know carried on from there. The 2 Myanmar lads will in all likelihood and I quote ' be found to have committed suicide in detention in the near future'. Too much money passed over to police in high authority for them to retract their story go figure. I was asked to leak to British press to put pressure on Thai justice system and after 4 emails I got no reply. Whether that was thru internet censorship I do not know. The Thai army cannot corroborate their investigation as they will be shut down by police on a higher level. Everyone local on Koh Tao knows the real culprits but are running scared. The solution maybe to but a 10 million baht price tag on their heads because these scum would sell out their own mother for twenty thousand. But that is the way it went as we all know. Bout time the Thai justice system manned up and sorted out these so called mafia hoodlums once and for all. God even the mafia had a code of honour. Well I await the death threats and mysterious accidents which may befall me in this land of ( false) smiles. But enough is enough there are many decent Thai people in this beautiful country but it is time to clean house the hard way and permanently. I hope one of you can at least get this out to some press somewhere as to me it seems the correct version of events. I'm sure the British police were only shown what they needed to. Enough is enough time for change Thailand

What you report is plausible. However, it shows up the weakness, in most cases, of anonymous reports. Even a single brave witness coming forward openly to report this (if he/she lived to repeat it in court) would not by itself be sufficient to indict without independent evidence. If all the powers on the island are united in preventing those responsible for the crimes being punished, only a determined intervention from outside could provide the security people need to come forward and break the silence. Assuming, as I believe, no proper investigation was done, I suspect the highest levels in Bangkok have, out of ignorance or otherwise, decided against intervening.

Mainstream media will never (for good reason) report allegations made (especially anonymously) without supporting evidence.

[boomerangutang]

The scenario mentioned by Grauwulf has plausible aspects - to those of us who have been following this case closely since it broke. However, it needs hard evidence (other than "he said....") and/or eyewitness accounts. There are ways to look in to the allegations (bank transactions, phone records, the guest house where victims were booked, etc) but if Thai cops are true to form, they won't scrutinize anything - except items which may (falsely) implicate scapegoats.

On CSI LA there is focus on a heavy set Thai man with a shark's tooth ring who is purportedly left-handed. There's a photo of him partying alongside (inches away from) Hannah in the bar (night of crime?). If social media can come up with so many photos, some of which could prove pertinent, then investigating cops should have at least a few items which they themselves came up with - which could have a bearing on the case. Thus far, other than the security video at Ko Tao and a doctored sec. video from Bkk, Thai cops seem to have come up empty-handed. Inept would be too nice a word to describe Thai officials - in how they've handled the case thus far. 'Clueless'? ...that's also too nice a description.

[BoristheBlade]

Because IT has been decided.

The Burmese are guilty.

The deals are done, money banked, everyone smile and get on with business and ripping off the tourists.

BUT, it won't get back to normal, too much damage done, Too many favours, Too many "outsiders" sniffing about.

After a period of time, I expect certain high profile people from this case to "go" away.

Never judge a book the the cover it's true, but a certain man with a shark tooth ring is worth investigating

A resident of the island, who reportedly fled after the murders and only recently returned.

At least 3 people took part in those murders, 2 well known people have been widely speculated to be suspects, I think they also have strong links link with shark ring man.

Shark tooth man was also named as an alleged rapist of a Thai Lady on Koh Tao.

Really ? And can you give me any good explanation why the killer would return to the island now ? Especially when B2 has denied they had anything to do with it?

[boomerangutang]

Really ? And can you give me any good explanation why the killer would return to the island now ? Especially when B2 has denied they had anything to do with it?

Here's the reason: Ko Tao is now known as being safe for rapists and murderers, if you're well-connected. Does that answer your question?

[jabis]

The scenario mentioned by Grauwulf has plausible aspects - to those of us who have been following this case closely since it broke. However, it needs hard evidence (other than "he said....") and/or eyewitness accounts. There are ways to look in to the allegations (bank transactions, phone records, the guest house where victims were booked, etc) but if Thai cops are true to form, they won't scrutinize anything - except items which may (falsely) implicate scapegoats.

On CSI LA there is focus on a heavy set Thai man with a shark's tooth ring who is purportedly left-handed. There's a photo of him partying alongside (inches away from) Hannah in the bar (night of crime?). If social media can come up with so many photos, some of which could prove pertinent, then investigating cops should have at least a few items which they themselves came up with - which could have a bearing on the case. Thus far, other than the security video at Ko Tao and a doctored sec. video from Bkk, Thai cops seem to have come up empty-handed. Inept would be too nice a word to describe Thai officials - in how they've handled the case thus far. 'Clueless'? ...that's also too nice a description.

This is where most of people tumble - there is no such thing as investigating cops anymore, as the RTP gave the case to the prosecutor (and bounced back several times) - the other leads which turned up during the case have been buried, and no other line will be taken since the lead investigator has finalized the investigation - or as they said in the media fixed it and it is 100% complete. Nothing new will most probably be brought to the prosecutor in the remaining time frame.

e:typos

Edited November 10, 2014 by jabis

[BoristheBlade]

Exactly

In a civilised country your question is relevant

But this is Thailand, the RTP don't investigate, They DON"T follow up leads

They don't understand the word MOTIVE

Really ? And can you give me any good explanation why the killer would return to the island now ? Especially when B2 has denied they had anything to do with it?

Here's the reason: Ko Tao is now known as being safe for rapists and murderers, if you're well-connected. Does that answer your question?

Edited November 10, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[BoristheBlade]

Grauwulf story about a policeman been involved is interesting

A certain web site mentions Itipon Sangonsad, night club security indeed!

[timewilltell]

beginning to wonder who is creating the conspiracy theory

they say the fox smells it's dirt frst

A conspiracy theorist has a confirmation bias for his proposed truth and will deny and ignore any solid evidence which refutes it to the point of even lying and spread g misinformation to support his version if events.

The term "conspiracy theorist" has been thrown around a lot in every KT thread by a certain member but who really is the conspiracy theorist in this case?

The people taking their cues from csila and other conspiracy sites.

I'll say it again. Sites like DSI LA publish a lot of things. Some are just opinions, often a way for people to show concern for the victims and/or a way to let off some steam. There are also many specialists out in the big world, some of whom can shed some light on aspects of the investigation. If JDinasia thinks that Thai investigating cops have all the answers and are covering all the bases, then that's her right to think whatever she wants. She can also think the moon is made of green cheese, if she so chooses.

I could write a list of at least 40 items related to the investigation which Thai cops either didn't think to consider or perhaps looked in to, but decided it would implicate the headman's people, so dropped it. Another category are things Thai cops may have looked in to, but not in a professional enough manner. Here is just some items among many....

>>> laundry. When a dastardly murder takes place, unless the perps are nude, there's going to be bloody clothing. We haven't heard anything from Thai officials about clothing, except a pair of shorts which were thought to have had blood, but then found to be just muddy. Murderers with bloody garments will either want to wash them or throw them out/bury/burn/destroy them. There are many ways to investigate that sort of thing. Can we trust that Thai officials have looked into that thoroughly, or at all? You tell me.

>>> scenario at bar prior to victims leaving late at night: We don't expect Thai officials to keep us abreast of their investigation, but they have made announcements of evidence along the way, particularly during the initial stages of the investigation. Re; bar scenario: Nothing has been mentioned by officials. Only online sleuths.

>>> prior criminal history of suspects or reports of criminal activity on that beach near the bar in prior months/years. Again, nothing from officials.

>>> incidence/reports of date-rape drugs. We hear nothing from officials, but loads from the general public party-goers at the clubs. Because it's mentioned online, JD and JTJ will automatically call it all conspiracy theory. I guess I would also, if I was trying desperately to shield the headman's people.

Perhaps some of these things will show up if/when a trial takes place. However, I doubt it. Reason: evidence which supposedly implicates the Burmese scapegoats is announced quickly and loudly. whereas any evidence which implicates the headman's people is either not found or squashed. Connect the dots.

The RTP are not in control - they are subject to instruction from the top influential Thais who got involved shortly after the case gathered momentum to protect a couple of their drug business friends.

If you read the police pronouncements you can see when the influence started to be exerted because all of a sudden there was an about turn when previous suspects became non-suspects together with a rather poorly planned and enacted attempt at a media cleansing of the once suspects. All of a sudden the AC Bar and evidence implicating the influentials on Koh Tao was minimized and pushed aside.

I think the RTP are much more competent than being given credit for, albeit much less professional and skilled than better equipped and trained western equivalents. They have been instructed and are following those instructions. It has little to do with finding the criminals and all to do with protecting the drug trade that provides a source of funds for very many senior people in Thailand and their political agendas. Rallies in Bangkok cost an awful lot of money!

[Artisi]

A conspiracy theorist has a confirmation bias for his proposed truth and will deny and ignore any solid evidence which refutes it to the point of even lying and spread g misinformation to support his version if events.

The term "conspiracy theorist" has been thrown around a lot in every KT thread by a certain member but who really is the conspiracy theorist in this case?

The people taking their cues from csila and other conspiracy sites.

I'll say it again. Sites like DSI LA publish a lot of things. Some are just opinions, often a way for people to show concern for the victims and/or a way to let off some steam. There are also many specialists out in the big world, some of whom can shed some light on aspects of the investigation. If JDinasia thinks that Thai investigating cops have all the answers and are covering all the bases, then that's her right to think whatever she wants. She can also think the moon is made of green cheese, if she so chooses.

I could write a list of at least 40 items related to the investigation which Thai cops either didn't think to consider or perhaps looked in to, but decided it would implicate the headman's people, so dropped it. Another category are things Thai cops may have looked in to, but not in a professional enough manner. Here is just some items among many....

>>> laundry. When a dastardly murder takes place, unless the perps are nude, there's going to be bloody clothing. We haven't heard anything from Thai officials about clothing, except a pair of shorts which were thought to have had blood, but then found to be just muddy. Murderers with bloody garments will either want to wash them or throw them out/bury/burn/destroy them. There are many ways to investigate that sort of thing. Can we trust that Thai officials have looked into that thoroughly, or at all? You tell me.

>>> scenario at bar prior to victims leaving late at night: We don't expect Thai officials to keep us abreast of their investigation, but they have made announcements of evidence along the way, particularly during the initial stages of the investigation. Re; bar scenario: Nothing has been mentioned by officials. Only online sleuths.

>>> prior criminal history of suspects or reports of criminal activity on that beach near the bar in prior months/years. Again, nothing from officials.

>>> incidence/reports of date-rape drugs. We hear nothing from officials, but loads from the general public party-goers at the clubs. Because it's mentioned online, JD and JTJ will automatically call it all conspiracy theory. I guess I would also, if I was trying desperately to shield the headman's people.

Perhaps some of these things will show up if/when a trial takes place. However, I doubt it. Reason: evidence which supposedly implicates the Burmese scapegoats is announced quickly and loudly. whereas any evidence which implicates the headman's people is either not found or squashed. Connect the dots.

The RTP are not in control - they are subject to instruction from the top influential Thais who got involved shortly after the case gathered momentum to protect a couple of their drug business friends.

If you read the police pronouncements you can see when the influence started to be exerted because all of a sudden there was an about turn when previous suspects became non-suspects together with a rather poorly planned and enacted attempt at a media cleansing of the once suspects. All of a sudden the AC Bar and evidence implicating the influentials on Koh Tao was minimized and pushed aside.

I think the RTP are much more competent than being given credit for, albeit much less professional and skilled than better equipped and trained western equivalents. They have been instructed and are following those instructions. It has little to do with finding the criminals and all to do with protecting the drug trade that provides a source of funds for very many senior people in Thailand and their political agendas. Rallies in Bangkok cost an awful lot of money!

Reasonable comment that would have sufficed with out Quote."....and their political agendas.Rallies in Bangkok cost an awful lot of money!" Unquote. which adds nothing to your comment other than political bias.

[timewilltell]

A conspiracy theorist has a confirmation bias for his proposed truth and will deny and ignore any solid evidence which refutes it to the point of even lying and spread g misinformation to support his version if events.

The term "conspiracy theorist" has been thrown around a lot in every KT thread by a certain member but who really is the conspiracy theorist in this case?

The people taking their cues from csila and other conspiracy sites.

I'll say it again. Sites like DSI LA publish a lot of things. Some are just opinions, often a way for people to show concern for the victims and/or a way to let off some steam. There are also many specialists out in the big world, some of whom can shed some light on aspects of the investigation. If JDinasia thinks that Thai investigating cops have all the answers and are covering all the bases, then that's her right to think whatever she wants. She can also think the moon is made of green cheese, if she so chooses.

I could write a list of at least 40 items related to the investigation which Thai cops either didn't think to consider or perhaps looked in to, but decided it would implicate the headman's people, so dropped it. Another category are things Thai cops may have looked in to, but not in a professional enough manner. Here is just some items among many....

>>> laundry. When a dastardly murder takes place, unless the perps are nude, there's going to be bloody clothing. We haven't heard anything from Thai officials about clothing, except a pair of shorts which were thought to have had blood, but then found to be just muddy. Murderers with bloody garments will either want to wash them or throw them out/bury/burn/destroy them. There are many ways to investigate that sort of thing. Can we trust that Thai officials have looked into that thoroughly, or at all? You tell me.

>>> scenario at bar prior to victims leaving late at night: We don't expect Thai officials to keep us abreast of their investigation, but they have made announcements of evidence along the way, particularly during the initial stages of the investigation. Re; bar scenario: Nothing has been mentioned by officials. Only online sleuths.

>>> prior criminal history of suspects or reports of criminal activity on that beach near the bar in prior months/years. Again, nothing from officials.

>>> incidence/reports of date-rape drugs. We hear nothing from officials, but loads from the general public party-goers at the clubs. Because it's mentioned online, JD and JTJ will automatically call it all conspiracy theory. I guess I would also, if I was trying desperately to shield the headman's people.

Perhaps some of these things will show up if/when a trial takes place. However, I doubt it. Reason: evidence which supposedly implicates the Burmese scapegoats is announced quickly and loudly. whereas any evidence which implicates the headman's people is either not found or squashed. Connect the dots.

The RTP are not in control - they are subject to instruction from the top influential Thais who got involved shortly after the case gathered momentum to protect a couple of their drug business friends.

If you read the police pronouncements you can see when the influence started to be exerted because all of a sudden there was an about turn when previous suspects became non-suspects together with a rather poorly planned and enacted attempt at a media cleansing of the once suspects. All of a sudden the AC Bar and evidence implicating the influentials on Koh Tao was minimized and pushed aside.

I think the RTP are much more competent than being given credit for, albeit much less professional and skilled than better equipped and trained western equivalents. They have been instructed and are following those instructions. It has little to do with finding the criminals and all to do with protecting the drug trade that provides a source of funds for very many senior people in Thailand and their political agendas. Rallies in Bangkok cost an awful lot of money!

Reasonable comment that would have sufficed with out Quote."....and their political agendas.Rallies in Bangkok cost an awful lot of money!" Unquote. which adds nothing to your comment other than political bias.

No political bias - all parties have had rallies in Bangkok and I was not referring to any particular side of the political divide. Political parties need a lot of money to run, it doesn't matter whether socialist, communist or capitalist. Some of the money comes from impeccable sources but much comes from more murky sources - and that goes for every country by the way. Where do all the proceeds from drugs go if it is not to gain power in one form or another?

[Artisi]

A few people have mentioned 'shark-tooth ring' as a possible weapon. It's plausible, when looking at the identical-looking wounds on David. I was at Kao San road recently and looking at a couple of sidewalk vendors' display of weapons for sale. There are many types of rings which can cause mucho damage. If it was a ring, then the murderer would likely have damage to his leading hand. Did Thai cops closely search the hands of all suspects a.s.a.p. after the crime? Did they search suspects' entire bodies? Of course they searched the Burmese scapegoats, but I mean did they search those who should be prime suspects? I'd bet dollars to donuts the answer is 'NO'.

Even if cops did find wounds or other signs of scuffle on suspects (other than the Burmese), it would be too easy for suspects to say any pap like 'oh, I slipped on a wet floor and hurt myself'. The soggiest excuses will work for the headman's people. I wonder what the reasoning was for Nomsod to not give a sample for DNA? Actually, he didn't even need a reason, he could just say 'no' and the cops would grin and say 'ok, sorry for asking. How's your pop, by the way?'

So are we all agreeing that another weapon was used on David?

There has been much discussion of the murder weapon on these threads, which I have joined in with. I've probably written 40 paragraphs on that topic. That's not to say all I've opined is gospel, but there are some aspects of the wounds which indicate the police are off base - judging from what the cops have announced thus far. Police seemed to start out their investigation ok, by claiming the hoe had none of David's blood on it. Besides Hannah's blood, the hoe seems to have revealed nothing else of value; no fingerprints, no other peoples' DNA (it's probably indicative of sloppy forensics). However, it's revealing what the hoe discounts: Although it's very unlikely the hoe was used to wound David, the hoe was used (a hoe-like device) in the reenactment of the crime on the beach. Another reason the hoe was v. unlikely used on David (despite Thai investigators saying it was): the wounds on David don't correspond to the hoe being the weapon. A hoe has two basic faces if used as a weapon: its blade and its back/blunt end. The blunt end is much better at smashing things (like big dirt clods or a skull). The blade on an old dirty hoe like that is dull (I've dealt with dozens of hoes in Thailand, over the years, no pun intended). Even the sharp end of a hoe would not cause the same-sized clean knife wounds as shown on David.

The most likely weapon used on David was a small punch blade - held in a fist. Most of David's wounds were on the right side of his neck. If he was facing the attacker, the attacker would have had to have been left-handed. Nomsod is apparently left-handed (according to people who know him personally). Not sure about his uncle, Mon, who should also still be a suspect. Who would own a punch-blade type weapon like that? There's a photo of Sean (same day or days before the crime?) in a Ko Tao shop which appears to show him wearing one in a little black pouch. That's the type of photo that gets revealed online, rather than by police work, so JDinasia would dismiss that photo as 'conspiracy theory' and therefore zero value in this case. There's is more on this topic, but I'm tired of typing.

It makes no difference. The RTP are hell bent on indicting the B2. Truth and facts are cast aside when convenient. The B2 will be convicted. It has already been decided. I hope to eat my words but I wouldn't bet a satang on it.

I think the Burmese will be let off. After that, it will officially devolve to become an unsolved murder, as so many others in Thailand - particularly in the southern isthmus tourist regions.

If and when they are let off and it becomes an unsolved murder, as a parent I would immediately contact

the modern day Paladin and issue the necessary brief.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Artisi

[jdinasia]

beginning to wonder who is creating the conspiracy theory

they say the fox smells it's dirt frst

A conspiracy theorist has a confirmation bias for his proposed truth and will deny and ignore any solid evidence which refutes it to the point of even lying and spread g misinformation to support his version if events.

The term "conspiracy theorist" has been thrown around a lot in every KT thread by a certain member but who really is the conspiracy theorist in this case?

The people taking their cues from csila and other conspiracy sites.

I'll say it again. Sites like DSI LA publish a lot of things. Some are just opinions, often a way for people to show concern for the victims and/or a way to let off some steam. There are also many specialists out in the big world, some of whom can shed some light on aspects of the investigation. If JDinasia thinks that Thai investigating cops have all the answers and are covering all the bases, then that's her right to think whatever she wants. She can also think the moon is made of green cheese, if she so chooses.

I could write a list of at least 40 items related to the investigation which Thai cops either didn't think to consider or perhaps looked in to, but decided it would implicate the headman's people, so dropped it. Another category are things Thai cops may have looked in to, but not in a professional enough manner. Here is just some items among many....

>>> laundry. When a dastardly murder takes place, unless the perps are nude, there's going to be bloody clothing. We haven't heard anything from Thai officials about clothing, except a pair of shorts which were thought to have had blood, but then found to be just muddy. Murderers with bloody garments will either want to wash them or throw them out/bury/burn/destroy them. There are many ways to investigate that sort of thing. Can we trust that Thai officials have looked into that thoroughly, or at all? You tell me.

>>> scenario at bar prior to victims leaving late at night: We don't expect Thai officials to keep us abreast of their investigation, but they have made announcements of evidence along the way, particularly during the initial stages of the investigation. Re; bar scenario: Nothing has been mentioned by officials. Only online sleuths.

>>> prior criminal history of suspects or reports of criminal activity on that beach near the bar in prior months/years. Again, nothing from officials.

>>> incidence/reports of date-rape drugs. We hear nothing from officials, but loads from the general public party-goers at the clubs. Because it's mentioned online, JD and JTJ will automatically call it all conspiracy theory. I guess I would also, if I was trying desperately to shield the headman's people.

Perhaps some of these things will show up if/when a trial takes place. However, I doubt it. Reason: evidence which supposedly implicates the Burmese scapegoats is announced quickly and loudly. whereas any evidence which implicates the headman's people is either not found or squashed. Connect the dots.

The RTP are not in control - they are subject to instruction from the top influential Thais who got involved shortly after the case gathered momentum to protect a couple of their drug business friends.

If you read the police pronouncements you can see when the influence started to be exerted because all of a sudden there was an about turn when previous suspects became non-suspects together with a rather poorly planned and enacted attempt at a media cleansing of the once suspects. All of a sudden the AC Bar and evidence implicating the influentials on Koh Tao was minimized and pushed aside.

I think the RTP are much more competent than being given credit for, albeit much less professional and skilled than better equipped and trained western equivalents. They have been instructed and are following those instructions. It has little to do with finding the criminals

and all to do with protecting the drug trade that provides a source of funds for very many senior people in Thailand and their political agendas. Rallies in Bangkok cost an awful lot of money!

Several distinct conspiracy theories above.

"'.....but decided it would implicate..."

"RTP not in control..."

"political rallies..."

[SteveFong]

what is the chances that the Burmese have a few planted private investigators, on the island still,?

nice and quiet as they gather more evidence

[seahorse]

Can I just say this I have it on good authority from contacts in Thai Military police after their behind the radar investigation that the case went down this way.

Hannah was getting hassled in the AC bar by bar 'security' (who are connected to the run businesses on the Island). They tried to slip a 'roofie' or some such date rape drug in her drink. She was targeted from the moment she walked in. David intervened and escorted her back to their accommodation where they were followed by at least 4 local Thai known wannabe hard men . They were assaulted in the hostel I.e David was rendered unconscious ( this has also been told to Army by very scared staff) And both taken to the beach where David was left to drown and Hannah brutalised and savagely killed. The culprits went to 'higher authority' and money quickly changed hands locally then to Sura Thani and then Bangkok all before the crime scene was discovered and sealed. The fiasco as you know carried on from there. The 2 Myanmar lads will in all likelihood and I quote ' be found to have committed suicide in detention in the near future'. Too much money passed over to police in high authority for them to retract their story go figure. I was asked to leak to British press to put pressure on Thai justice system and after 4 emails I got no reply. Whether that was thru internet censorship I do not know. The Thai army cannot corroborate their investigation as they will be shut down by police on a higher level. Everyone local on Koh Tao knows the real culprits but are running scared. The solution maybe to but a 10 million baht price tag on their heads because these scum would sell out their own mother for twenty thousand. But that is the way it went as we all know. Bout time the Thai justice system manned up and sorted out these so called mafia hoodlums once and for all. God even the mafia had a code of honour. Well I await the death threats and mysterious accidents which may befall me in this land of ( false) smiles. But enough is enough there are many decent Thai people in this beautiful country but it is time to clean house the hard way and permanently. I hope one of you can at least get this out to some press somewhere as to me it seems the correct version of events. I'm sure the British police were only shown what they needed to. Enough is enough time for change Thailand

Hannah was getting hassled in the AC bar by bar 'security' (who are connected to the run businesses on the Island). They tried to slip a 'roofie' or some such date rape drug in her drink. She was targeted from the moment she walked in. David intervened

tallies with this

AC Bar where the two murdered tourists had a quarrel with some men before being killed later that night

http://www.thephuketnews.com/3-more-dna-results-clear-son-of-koh-tao-big-boss-49450.php

[Dogmatix]

Yes, the video is quite self-evident and there is no hidden innuendo. All is upfront. Since there is next to nothing of this type of investigative journalism on the case available on Youtube in English, which is unsurprising as we are in Thailand, I also hope it can stay. The British TV journalists went home long ago. In the interview of the fighting instructor, he says that David's wounds that were mainly on the left side of his head appear to have been inflicted by a left handed man with a punch knife or similar short knife.

[Dogmatix]

In the old days, not so long ago, before DNA blood type was used to try to link or eliminate suspects in rape cases where semen was taken from the victim. Assuming that the blood type of the rapists who deposited the semen is know in the UK, it would probably be a simple matter to compare the two suspects' blood types. They may have medical records in Burma. If they have the same blood types and these are common, it doesn't narrow things down that much. But if the blood types don't match, it eliminates them and makes the DNA matches unreliable.

[Jack Burton]

This has went too far for justice to prevail. Unfortunately the only way to get closure on this would be vengeance and I just feel sorry and angry for the family. Any sane and rational person can see this whole case from start to finish is borderline circus like and there are so many discrepancies and evidence being ignored it is an insult to the watching public and families seeking justice.

For me, I plan to leave Thailand because of this as it has sickened me to the bottom of my stomach. I still cannot understand as to why Mr no9 has not been identified, nor the fact it was a clear drug deal that was going on, as I presume no9 will be a known pusher on the island. Usually the mafia control the drug rings but who am I to speculate right? Not to mention the fact no9 looked and very similar walking style to none other than Mr Milk.

As I said, this has went too far for the truth to be able to come out. I also do not really understand the role of the British and if they will ever come out and make an official statement.

[stephen terry]

Can I just say this I have it on good authority from contacts in Thai Military police after their behind the radar investigation that the case went down this way.

Hannah was getting hassled in the AC bar by bar 'security' (who are connected to the run businesses on the Island). They tried to slip a 'roofie' or some such date rape drug in her drink. She was targeted from the moment she walked in. David intervened and escorted her back to their accommodation where they were followed by at least 4 local Thai known wannabe hard men . They were assaulted in the hostel I.e David was rendered unconscious ( this has also been told to Army by very scared staff) And both taken to the beach where David was left to drown and Hannah brutalised and savagely killed. The culprits went to 'higher authority' and money quickly changed hands locally then to Sura Thani and then Bangkok all before the crime scene was discovered and sealed. The fiasco as you know carried on from there. The 2 Myanmar lads will in all likelihood and I quote ' be found to have committed suicide in detention in the near future'. Too much money passed over to police in high authority for them to retract their story go figure. I was asked to leak to British press to put pressure on Thai justice system and after 4 emails I got no reply. Whether that was thru internet censorship I do not know. The Thai army cannot corroborate their investigation as they will be shut down by police on a higher level. Everyone local on Koh Tao knows the real culprits but are running scared. The solution maybe to but a 10 million baht price tag on their heads because these scum would sell out their own mother for twenty thousand. But that is the way it went as we all know. Bout time the Thai justice system manned up and sorted out these so called mafia hoodlums once and for all. God even the mafia had a code of honour. Well I await the death threats and mysterious accidents which may befall me in this land of ( false) smiles. But enough is enough there are many decent Thai people in this beautiful country but it is time to clean house the hard way and permanently. I hope one of you can at least get this out to some press somewhere as to me it seems the correct version of events. I'm sure the British police were only shown what they needed to. Enough is enough time for change Thailand

Hannah was getting hassled in the AC bar by bar 'security' (who are connected to the run businesses on the Island). They tried to slip a 'roofie' or some such date rape drug in her drink. She was targeted from the moment she walked in. David intervened

tallies with this

AC Bar where the two murdered tourists had a quarrel with some men before being killed later that night

http://www.thephuketnews.com/3-more-dna-results-clear-son-of-koh-tao-big-boss-49450.php

The CCTV (on the night of the murders) showed David on his own returning to his lodgings, not escorting Hannah from the AC bar to their? accommodation. Clearly, they must have met up, but how that happened is unclear/unrecorded.

I am wary of fully believing this account, however plausible it appears, because similar fiction has been posted previously on this forum. For this more polished version to arise now, is just too convenient. Four e-mails to the British press without a reply, maybe because of Internet censorship - do me a favour...

Nice try, though, but I'd rather believe the Nigerians.

[seahorse]

The CCTV (on the night of the murders) showed David on his own returning to his lodgings, not escorting Hannah from the AC bar to their? accommodation. Clearly, they must have met up, but how that happened is unclear/unrecorded.

I am wary of fully believing this account, however plausible it appears, because similar fiction has been posted previously on this forum. For this more polished version to arise now, is just too convenient. Four e-mails to the British press without a reply, maybe because of Internet censorship - do me a favour...

Nice try, though, but I'd rather believe the Nigerians.

We can be sure that the British press have been told to keep quiet, for now, as this case is sub judice.

I have not seen cctv footage showing David returning to his lodgings.

It was reported on social media that they left the bar together (by Hannah and David's friends). There was also a photo of them together with their friends, but not in AC Bar.

Where is the cctv footage from the AC Bar? That would clear up a lot of things. Surely they have nothing to lose by showing it. After all, Nomsod and Mon are innocent, aren't they?

[SteveFong]

David may have heard her screaming, or begging them to stop

Or, he may have heard the ruckus and seen from his window

the bottom line is, Hannah's friends know, and they have told British detectives

[Bleacher Bum East]

For the information of the gang arguing/debating the interrogation site of the Burmese suspects and their friend who has been released . . .

Reports from from October 3, the day of the crime scene re-enactment, said the following:

• At 9 pm on Wednesday, Oct. 1, the suspect named Wyn left Koh Tao
• At 6 am on Thursday, Oct. 2, Wyn was captured on the main wharf in Nakhon Surat Thani.
• Wyn was then taken to the Provincial Police Region 8 investigation centre
• Wyn was questioned at the Provincial Police Region 8 investigation centre for five hours.
• The media were not allowed to approach the Provincial Police Region 8 investigation centre or take photos
• At 9 p.m. on Thursday, Oct. 2, the suspect named Saw and his friend Mau (the witness who was cleared) were detained on Koh Tao.
• By the time Saw and Mau were detained, Wyn's confession had already leaked (3 hours earlier) from police offices in Surat Thani and Bangkok.
• On Friday morning, Oct. 3, it was announced that DNA samples obtained from Wyn and Saw matched that of DNA found on Hannah's body, and that both had now confessed
• Later on Friday, Oct. 3. the re-enactment took place on Sairee Beach in Koh Tao

Begs a lot of questions ... have at it.

Edit: There are no quotes from or links to any news source in this comment.

I think the Oct. 3 report about Saw and Mau being detained at 9 pm on Thursday, Oct. 2 was probably not correct (in rereading it was a little ambiguous as well).

Another report from the same media source at around 5 pm on Oct. 2 said they had been detained at 9 pm on Wednesday, Oct. 1 . . . and a report in the Nation at 5 pm on Oct 2 said the two had already been detained as well.

The Nation report did say that Wyn had been picked up on the mainland of Surathani.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Myanmar-worker-confesses-killing-British-tourists-30244632.html

The point of all this is that contemporaneous reports say that the two suspects Wyn and Saw were arrested separately---Wyn on the Surathani mainland and Saw on Koh Tao.

And the Nation's rival reported on several occassions that Wyn, the first to confess, was interrogated at the Provincial Police Region 8 investigation centre, while reports said that Saw was interrogated at a "safe house" on Koh Tao.

So from media reports at the time, it seems that the two accused Burmese men were (at least initially) arrested and interrogated and confessed in two different locations . . . one in Surathani and one on Koh Tao.

What actually happened? Who knows . . .

[Mooner]

David may have heard her screaming, or begging them to stop

Or, he may have heard the ruckus and seen from his window

the bottom line is, Hannah's friends know, and they have told British detectives

I hope your right but if they had done why did it take a petition to get the ball moving?

[Dogmatix]

"It is very easy to overpower a larger person"

You are starting to lose the plot me thinks!

Is there anything you will agree on.............usually your posts have a little sense to them but to say its very easy to overpower a larger person then thats not right.......im sure David would have put up an incredible struggle to save his and Hannahs life,maybe he unlucky and was hit hard in the head first which may have rendered him unconscious or groggy but i wouldnt say its very easy for a 50kg guy to overpower a 90kg plus guy,even 2 of them together would not be "easy" and then Hannah would scream/struggle/run away but no evidence of any of that which is strange.......i believe was more than 2 guys involved in the murders,probably 4 i would guess.

And maybe a gun.

Well the 2B could have swung the hoe so fast that it went supersonic, hence the skull fragments and spatter on the rocks. Or yes, as you say, maybe there was a gun involved.

Maybe the police should take the 2B to a fair ground under dire threats and see how hard they can swing the hammer. There are plenty of forensic reports on people who have been murdered with baseball bats in the US. Generally the skull caves in when hit hard enough with a blunt instrument but doesn't splinter and fly feet away. This is particularly the case when the victim is young enough to have flexible skin and plenty of hair. Various studies have been done to show how Newtons of force are required to cause different levels of injury to a skull but the force needed to splinter the skull like that with a baseball bat must be off the charts because it is not shown. The hoe has a heavy metallic blade at the end with would increase its force but I would imagine it would still be hard to swing it hard enough to send splinters of skull flying some distance. The 2B are only about 4'6" tall and weedy looking.