Koh Tao suspects to be indicted by end of month

[Dogmatix]

I would think that evidence would come out in a trial.

In that case amusing and exciting times are ahead of us. The realist in me says this will never make it into the courtroom.

I think it will but cannot claim to be sure

If they do indeed have a DNA match, the 3rd Burmese to place them at the scene, and the phone ; it would likely be enough to overcome the other issues.

You conveniently forget and purposely leave out that the "star witness" for the RTP, testified after being tortured,

that the 2 Burmese under arrest, were sleeping soundly with no evidence they even witnessed a crime,

and no evidence they committed a crime,

no blood, anywere,

no bloody gloves

no Bruno Mali shoe prints in blood,

not a stain on their sink,

not even a drop

circumstantial evidence of their involvement doesnt exist which tells the rest of the thinking world,

the DNA is false

If the autopsies were really performed locally, it would be surprising that the hospital had any equipment to analyse DNA at all.

[Dogmatix]

The Police General Hospital autopsy report has been posted online but I will not post it here as it is in Thai only. If interested, you should be able to find it easily.

The report that has been posted without the preamble is only one page of well spaced type for both victims and seems rather cursory in nature, compared to autopsy reports on victims of violent crime where the circumstances of death are far from clear in the US or other Western countries. Perhaps it is only a summary but it seems entirely consistent with what was described as the autopsy findings on Thai TV by the police pathologist in charge.

The report says that both Hannah and David died from violent blows to the head with a blunt instrument that caused wounding consistent with the hoe that was found nearby.

DNA traces of a Mr C were found on Hannah's nipples and semen with DNA from a Mr B and Mr C were found internally.

No sign of sexual assault on David.

No signs of toxic substances or poisoned food in either victim.

Nothing is mentioned about the multiple incision or chop wounds on David's head or upper torso or the obvious difference in the wounds to each victim that the pathologist ascribed to the same blunt instrument as murder weapon.

I listened again to the video clip of the doctor interviewed about the autopsy by Sorayuth and he says the DNA was as follows:

Cigarette butts - Mr A and Mr B.

Nipples - Mr B and Mr C.

Internal - Mr B and Mr C.

The cigarette butts are not mentioned in the pages I have seen but the rest is the same. Apologies, I left off Mr B DNA from the nipples above.

[Krenjai]

I forgot to mention that the autopsy report did also say that water was found in David's lungs.

I have now read the cover page or summary of the autopsy report regarding David which is posted separately. It also gives details of the discovery of the body and police surmise as to how death took place.

The page says that David's body was found on 15th November!

I thought the autopsy was done at the Police General Hospital in Bangkok but the cover page cites a doctor at Koh Tao Hospital (I didn't know there was one there).

At the bottom of the page is a little summary of facts regarding when David and Hannah arrived in KT and that they met there. Then it goes on to say that they went to the Sairee beach together and were most likely having sex together, during the course of which they were attacked by the killer (or killers) with a hoe and sustained several wounds resulting in death. (Interesting how accurately the police theory about what happened foreshadowed the confessions the 2B would make a few days later). However, there is no evidence presented in the report for the presumption that the two victims had sex together at all. If this were the case, one would think that David's DNA would be found somewhere on Hannah's body, or at least inside the condom found on the beach. Otherwise, one might suggest that this was one of several possibilities but not supported by any forensic evidence.

Police reports in the media mentioned that some died blond hair was found in one of Hannah's hands and shortly before the arrest of the 2B police said they were about to arrest three Burmese, one of whom had had died blond hair on the night of the murders but had recently died it black again. The autopsy report didn't mention this and police have not referred to it since. None of the two Burmese suspects or their friend who was originally held as a witness had blond hair on the CCTV pictures on the night of the murders and it has never been made clear who the blond Burmese they referred to was. It is strange that no analysis was made of this potentially important piece of evidence. Equally there is no mention of any DNA traces found in Hannah's fingernails or teeth which would most likely have been the case, if she had fought her attackers. Nor is there any suggestion of the presence (or absence) of any other DNA traces in the form of pubic hair, which would normally be deposited in a rape, unless all rapists were completely clean shaven, or other tissue samples, apart from two lots of semen and one man's saliva found on nipples.

Police reports similarly said that David had wounds on his knuckles which he must have sustained as a result of trying to fight off his attackers. No mention of these wounds in the report which implies that he was struck on the head while having sex which presumably precluded fighting back or sustaining wounds on his knuckles.

If I was not aware that the British detectives were full of praise for the Thai police investigation which was exactly how they would have done things in the UK, I might be suspicious that police removed any extraneous details that didn't fit with the scenario they had decided on by the time they wrote the report. However, it is hard to imagine British plods sending the bodies of two murder victims for autopsy to a local cottage hospital which almost certainly wouldn't have the necessary equipment or even a qualified forensic pathologist. Would the plods then be satisfied with a perfunctory autopsy report which might be more appropriate in the case of terminally ill nonagenarians who had peacefully passed away in a hospice? Since we know the plods asserted they would have done exactly the same, I am now wondering how they manage to solve as many murder cases as they do but I am a rank amateur compared to the brilliant sleuths of Koh Tao and Scotland Yard with their common textbook.

Speechless, this is more than a bad movie! I simply cannot believe they dare to convict based on this report.

[SteveFong]

the way they describe the DNA,

there is still a 3rd person missing,

I am not saying I am buying in to this in any way,

what I am saying is,

"why are they allowing the "".3rd rapist killer of Kho Tao.""

to be excluded from the perfect investigation?

clearly, there is 3 of them..................................

[englishoak]

Oh i dont think its just the 3rd person thats missing but possibly 1 and 2 arnt the right ones in the first place and 4 + could easily be involved in the attacks, it isnt imo beyond reasonable considering the incident and savagery.

Im pretty sure there is at least one gang of serial rapist/killers loose in the Samui archipelago,probably more.

Swiss Snorkeller Goes Missing Off Thailand Murders Beach

Phuketwan link removed

Same beach on his own etc etc, could be just coincidence of course but the point is not many people drown while snorkelling off a beach and just so happens it was off saree beach.

How many coincidental mysterious or suspect deaths can the island take ?

Edited November 10, 2014 by MJP
Removed Phuketwan link.

[SteveFong]

idk,

people drink way too much when they are on these trips, so,

I am not so fast to suspect every death of a foreigner of foul play,

unless he is cut up by a propeller and then gets listed as a suicide

[SteveFong]

Oh i dont think its just the 3rd person thats missing but possibly 1 and 2 arnt the right ones in the first place and 4 + could easily be involved in the attacks, it isnt imo beyond reasonable considering the incident and savagery.

Im pretty sure there is at least one gang of serial rapist/killers loose in the Samui archipelago,probably more.

Swiss Snorkeller Goes Missing Off Thailand Murders Beach

Phuketwan link removed

Same beach on his own etc etc, could be just coincidence of course but the point is not many people drown while snorkelling off a beach and just so happens it was off saree beach.

How many coincidental mysterious or suspect deaths can the island take ?

do jet skies and wave runners share the same water space with snorkelers there?

the way people drive cars in Thailand, I can't imagine they are any safer on a jet ski

[boomerangutang]

The Police General Hospital autopsy report has been posted online but I will not post it here as it is in Thai only. If interested, you should be able to find it easily.

The report that has been posted without the preamble is only one page of well spaced type for both victims and seems rather cursory in nature, compared to autopsy reports on victims of violent crime where the circumstances of death are far from clear in the US or other Western countries. Perhaps it is only a summary but it seems entirely consistent with what was described as the autopsy findings on Thai TV by the police pathologist in charge.

The report says that both Hannah and David died from violent blows to the head with a blunt instrument that caused wounding consistent with the hoe that was found nearby.

DNA traces of a Mr C were found on Hannah's nipples and semen with DNA from a Mr B and Mr C were found internally.

No sign of sexual assault on David.

No signs of toxic substances or poisoned food in either victim.

Nothing is mentioned about the multiple incision or chop wounds on David's head or upper torso or the obvious difference in the wounds to each victim that the pathologist ascribed to the same blunt instrument as murder weapon.

Did the report mention the abrasions on David's knuckles showing signs of a fight, which was mentioned in the first autopsy?

Thanks, Dogmatix, for posting the autopsy report. If that paper were submitted at a medical school by forensic students as part of an examination, it would probably be graded a solid F.

[expat_4_life]

Murder police return from Thailand

British police who travelled to Thailand to review the probe into the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller are due to return to the UK,

having completed their work "as far as possible".

" Detectives from the United Kingdom who are currently in Thailand reviewing the investigation into the murders of Hannah Witheridge and

David Miller have completed their work, as far as possible," the Met said in a statement.

"They will now be returning to the UK to compile their report and to update the families of Hannah and David on their findings."

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/murder-police-return-thailand-012555783.html#gGlAMGT

Edited November 11, 2014 by expat_4_life

[heyexile]

Murder police return from Thailand

British police who travelled to Thailand to review the probe into the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller are due to return to the UK,

having completed their work "as far as possible".

" Detectives from the United Kingdom who are currently in Thailand reviewing the investigation into the murders of Hannah Witheridge and

David Miller have completed their work, as far as possible," the Met said in a statement.

"They will now be returning to the UK to compile their report and to update the families of Hannah and David on their findings."

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/murder-police-return-thailand-012555783.html#gGlAMGT

Well spotted. Thanks for some reliable info, I guess it means they are (all) on way back to UK now.

See Yahoo piece still citing main Uk police concerns around verification of DNA samples (poss evidence tampering?) and allegations of mistreatment of suspects (forced false confession?).

Edit to add: BBC and Mail now carrying the story today as is Andy Hall.

http://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

Edited November 11, 2014 by heyexile

[Dogmatix]

Thinking more about the 'autopsy report' posted online which has the wrong date on it and the name of a doctor from KT hospital on it and the police theory that Hannah and David were both battered to death with the hoe after being interrupted having sex, I think it is more likely that this was actually a report of the finding of the bodies. Although the report form is clearly headed chan-ná-sòot plík sòp which does mean 'autopsy report' it seems inconceivable that the bodies were sent to a cottage hospital in KT.

The other page that is posted online without a heading with the references to DNA of Mr B and Mr C and the finding that both victims died from blows with a blunt instrument, most likely the hoe, contains the same information provided by the police pathologist on TV, appears to be the real autopsy report and I can only presume that it must have been done at the Police General Hospital, although I have not yet seen its header posted online.

[Dogmatix]

Thinking more about the 'autopsy report' posted online which has the wrong date on it and the name of a doctor from KT hospital on it and the police theory that Hannah and David were both battered to death with the hoe after being interrupted having sex, I think it is more likely that this was actually a report of the finding of the bodies. Although the report form is clearly headed chan-ná-sòot plík sòp which does mean 'autopsy report' it seems inconceivable that the bodies were sent to a cottage hospital in KT.

The other page that is posted online without a heading with the references to DNA of Mr B and Mr C and the finding that both victims died from blows with a blunt instrument, most likely the hoe, contains the same information provided by the police pathologist on TV, appears to be the real autopsy report and I can only presume that it must have been done at the Police General Hospital, although I have not yet seen its header posted online.

[Fat Haggis]

so jd

where on his skull is this massive blow that rendered him unconscious?

Why is it that every KT thread becomes a Q&A with jdinasia??

Because we need people like jdnasia to balance this case so you guys understand that a coin has 2 sides and you're only looking at one side.

Except a coin actually has 3 sides ?

The other side is when you can balance it on the milled edge, unless the coin is built like a tiny discus and has a rounded finish

[Fat Haggis]

so jd

where on his skull is this massive blow that rendered him unconscious?

Why is it that every KT thread becomes a Q&A with jdinasia??

Because we need people like jdnasia to balance this case so you guys understand that a coin has 2 sides and you're only looking at one side.

Except a coin actually has 3 sides ?

The other side is when you can balance it on the milled edge, unless the coin is built like a tiny discus and has a rounded finish

[boomerangutang]

Those of us who are trying to follow the case are a bit frustrated because relatively little has come down the official tubes of late. Now this so-called 'autopsy report' by Thai specialists. What's its date? Regardless, it looks shoddy at best, when compared to what we've been hearing from online sleuths and official pronouncements. For example, how thorough were the toxicology tests? It's almost certain the victims were drinking alcoholic drinks that night, yet the report claims no drugs were detected. There are also weird date-rape drugs. Is the provincial clinic/hospital (where the autopsy allegedly took place) qualified to test for a dozen other substances, including date-rape drugs?

That was a major deficiency in some prior Thai crime investigations, most notably on Ko Phi Phi, where Thai specialists were unable to deduce toxicology data on those who suddenly died. Thai officials started off opining that the young women died from eating poisonous fish. A bit later, they guessed that some over-the-counter drug did them in, like Ibuprophin. These failures (of Thai investigations) should be a wake-up call for Thailand to train medics and and equip their clinics throughout the land, particularly near tourist regions, to be able to do adequate toxicological tests.

Every year, Thai universities pump out tens thousands of business specialists (many of whom probably wind up selling whitening cream at malls), but how many forensic experts come forth?

The recent autopsy (re; Ko Tao crime) claimed David had his head bashed in. The report also didn't seem to mention the multiple clean stab wounds to his head, neck and upper torso. It would seem (from what the public have seen and heard in past weeks) both those reported items on the autopsy were faulty.

[SteveFong]

toxic fish?

the image that provoked, can not be repeated here

[Krenjai]

Those of us who are trying to follow the case are a bit frustrated because relatively little has come down the official tubes of late. Now this so-called 'autopsy report' by Thai specialists. What's its date? Regardless, it looks shoddy at best, when compared to what we've been hearing from online sleuths and official pronouncements. For example, how thorough were the toxicology tests? It's almost certain the victims were drinking alcoholic drinks that night, yet the report claims no drugs were detected. There are also weird date-rape drugs. Is the provincial clinic/hospital (where the autopsy allegedly took place) qualified to test for a dozen other substances, including date-rape drugs?

That was a major deficiency in some prior Thai crime investigations, most notably on Ko Phi Phi, where Thai specialists were unable to deduce toxicology data on those who suddenly died. Thai officials started off opining that the young women died from eating poisonous fish. A bit later, they guessed that some over-the-counter drug did them in, like Ibuprophin. These failures (of Thai investigations) should be a wake-up call for Thailand to train medics and and equip their clinics throughout the land, particularly near tourist regions, to be able to do adequate toxicological tests.

Every year, Thai universities pump out tens thousands of business specialists (many of whom probably wind up selling whitening cream at malls), but how many forensic experts come forth?

The recent autopsy (re; Ko Tao crime) claimed David had his head bashed in. The report also didn't seem to mention the multiple clean stab wounds to his head, neck and upper torso. It would seem (from what the public have seen and heard in past weeks) both those reported items on the autopsy were faulty.

Do you mean?

1) It would seem (from what the public have seen and heard in past weeks) both those reported items on the autopsy were faulty, or

2) It should be clear to everybody who has been following this case these reports on the autopsy are more than ludicrous!

[SteveFong]

coroner gave the initial report, as dictated by the person who brought in the bodies

the autopsy should have been entirely different

[thailandchilli]

Those of us who are trying to follow the case are a bit frustrated because relatively little has come down the official tubes of late. Now this so-called 'autopsy report' by Thai specialists. What's its date? Regardless, it looks shoddy at best, when compared to what we've been hearing from online sleuths and official pronouncements. For example, how thorough were the toxicology tests? It's almost certain the victims were drinking alcoholic drinks that night, yet the report claims no drugs were detected. There are also weird date-rape drugs. Is the provincial clinic/hospital (where the autopsy allegedly took place) qualified to test for a dozen other substances, including date-rape drugs?

That was a major deficiency in some prior Thai crime investigations, most notably on Ko Phi Phi, where Thai specialists were unable to deduce toxicology data on those who suddenly died. Thai officials started off opining that the young women died from eating poisonous fish. A bit later, they guessed that some over-the-counter drug did them in, like Ibuprophin. These failures (of Thai investigations) should be a wake-up call for Thailand to train medics and and equip their clinics throughout the land, particularly near tourist regions, to be able to do adequate toxicological tests.

Every year, Thai universities pump out tens thousands of business specialists (many of whom probably wind up selling whitening cream at malls), but how many forensic experts come forth?

The recent autopsy (re; Ko Tao crime) claimed David had his head bashed in. The report also didn't seem to mention the multiple clean stab wounds to his head, neck and upper torso. It would seem (from what the public have seen and heard in past weeks) both those reported items on the autopsy were faulty.

To see what a 'real' crime scene investigation carried out by a forensic expert consists of and also what they look for in the autopsy and its procedure, carried out by 'professionals' then head to this link, courtesy of a poster on CSI

https://app.box.com/s/gy4d2vynmgg1di4gg9zf

I've already downloaded and its interesting reading in lay mans terms (needed for me!)

Edited November 11, 2014 by thailandchilli

[jdinasia]

I would think that evidence would come out in a trial.

In that case amusing and exciting times are ahead of us. The realist in me says this will never make it into the courtroom.

I think it will but cannot claim to be sure

If they do indeed have a DNA match, the 3rd Burmese to place them at the scene, and the phone ; it would likely be enough to overcome the other issues.

In a Thai court it would most certainly be enough ! In a normal court it wouldn't. And the boys in brown have only themselves to blame. Doubt about which phone, some about dyed hair and it's really end of story. Let's wait and see if the prosecution is going to burn their hands on this, allthough they probably don't have a choice in the matter.

It's not hard to predict the general concensus outside of Thailand, they will unamiously reject the verdict, and than to think that they probably only know the tip of the iceberg when it comes to corruption in Thailand !

I doubt any country outside of Thailand makes a statement regarding the outcome of the case other than the UK.

I doubt the UK statement will be damning regardless of whether the 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers are convicted or acquitted.

Edited November 11, 2014 by jdinasia

[jdinasia]

Those of us who are trying to follow the case are a bit frustrated because relatively little has come down the official tubes of late. Now this so-called 'autopsy report' by Thai specialists. What's its date? Regardless, it looks shoddy at best, when compared to what we've been hearing from online sleuths and official pronouncements. For example, how thorough were the toxicology tests? It's almost certain the victims were drinking alcoholic drinks that night, yet the report claims no drugs were detected. There are also weird date-rape drugs. Is the provincial clinic/hospital (where the autopsy allegedly took place) qualified to test for a dozen other substances, including date-rape drugs?

That was a major deficiency in some prior Thai crime investigations, most notably on Ko Phi Phi, where Thai specialists were unable to deduce toxicology data on those who suddenly died. Thai officials started off opining that the young women died from eating poisonous fish. A bit later, they guessed that some over-the-counter drug did them in, like Ibuprophin. These failures (of Thai investigations) should be a wake-up call for Thailand to train medics and and equip their clinics throughout the land, particularly near tourist regions, to be able to do adequate toxicological tests.

Every year, Thai universities pump out tens thousands of business specialists (many of whom probably wind up selling whitening cream at malls), but how many forensic experts come forth?

The recent autopsy (re; Ko Tao crime) claimed David had his head bashed in. The report also didn't seem to mention the multiple clean stab wounds to his head, neck and upper torso. It would seem (from what the public have seen and heard in past weeks) both those reported items on the autopsy were faulty.

You are commenting on a report posted online that cannot be verified as real?

[thailandchilli]

Jdinasia@

I doubt any country outside of Thailand makes a statement regarding the outcome of the case other than the UK.
I doubt the UK statement will be damning regardless of whether the 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers are convicted or acquitted.

Depends what you and the Thai authorities interpretate as damning, a huge difference between that and what the international community would consider to be damning diplomatic statements made by the UK there I think. Pretty sure Burma will be another country commenting, but others probably not, why would they? They will leave it to Amnesty International and of course the many human rights bodies

Edited November 11, 2014 by thailandchilli

[boomerangutang]

Thai officials are beyond caring what foreigners think. Officials figure the pay off is worth the loss of face, and people have short memories anyway. It's commendable this topic has stayed vibrant as long as it has. People get murdered every day, but this Ko Tao case has resonated with many folks, particular those on social media. It's surprised Thai officials. They've always been used to making statements and expecting most (if not nearly all) the populace to believe them. Those who don't believe Thai officialdom, so what? ...and there are always new news items popping up, so peoples' focus is always shifting to other things. We who have been posting on these threads can pat ourselves on the back for keeping this cover-up frame-up revelation alive for so long. Even if we don't get justice for the victims (and keep the culprits off the beach and out of the bars), then we've at least (hopefully) accomplished the following:

>>> Thai officials won't be so blase about making statements and expecting everyone to believe them,

>>> Thai forensic experts will hone their craft, to come closer to professional international standards,

>>> Officials won't be so quick to frame-up hill tribers or Burmese.

[SteveFong]

I didn't see a representative of Thailand at the big Summit, in the border country of Myammar?

did they have a problem getting a visa?

btw,

US and China will not have extended visa's for tourists, business and students, 10 years

[phuketandsee]

I didn't see a representative of Thailand at the big Summit, in the border country of Myammar?

did they have a problem getting a visa?

btw,

US and China will not have extended visa's for tourists, business and students, 10 years

You need to look harder Steve, he's there - stuck at the very end on the group photo, well away from the power players.

[SteveFong]

oh, ok,

I didnt see a big announcement from the press, so

they announce everything else

[murphya33]

I don't get it why everybody here seems convinced that these 2 Burmese are not the real killers. Just last week 2 Thai duck farmers were brutally murdered by their Burmese employees to get the money for a sale of duck eggs. It happens alot about once a week I see a story. Lets not forget that Burmese grow up under a brutal military regime. This makes them hard. Its definitely possible that they are the real killers.

Which diving school on KT do you work for then ?

dont ya just love generalizations....because of one case cited, all Burmese must be homicidal maniac's

your comments rank in the same category as " A Thai couldn't have done this " and "Farang ladies shouldn't wear bikini's cos they may have problems"

Wow! Where is this coming from? So much anger. Homicidal manics. what? I'm saying nothing of the sort. In fact I like Burmese people. All I'm saying is that it is just possible that they did do it. Please try not to read too much into another persons opinion because it is different from your own and go off on a rant on them. This is totally uncalled for.

[KunMatt]

I don't get it why everybody here seems convinced that these 2 Burmese are not the real killers. Just last week 2 Thai duck farmers were brutally murdered by their Burmese employees to get the money for a sale of duck eggs. It happens alot about once a week I see a story. Lets not forget that Burmese grow up under a brutal military regime. This makes them hard. Its definitely possible that they are the real killers.

Which diving school on KT do you work for then ?

dont ya just love generalizations....because of one case cited, all Burmese must be homicidal maniac's

your comments rank in the same category as " A Thai couldn't have done this " and "Farang ladies shouldn't wear bikini's cos they may have problems"

Wow! Where is this coming from? So much anger. Homicidal manics. what? I'm saying nothing of the sort. In fact I like Burmese people. All I'm saying is that it is just possible that they did do it. Please try not to read too much into another persons opinion because it is different from your own and go off on a rant on them. This is totally uncalled for.

On a mafia ruled island full of thugs, gangsters and bouncers where every regular person lives in fear of the mafia families, these 2 child-like Burmese guys are your obvious culprits for rape and multiple murder of large expats are they?

[Artisi]

I forgot to mention that the autopsy report did also say that water was found in David's lungs.

I have now read the cover page or summary of the autopsy report regarding David which is posted separately. It also gives details of the discovery of the body and police surmise as to how death took place.

The page says that David's body was found on 15th November!

I thought the autopsy was done at the Police General Hospital in Bangkok but the cover page cites a doctor at Koh Tao Hospital (I didn't know there was one there).

At the bottom of the page is a little summary of facts regarding when David and Hannah arrived in KT and that they met there. Then it goes on to say that they went to the Sairee beach together and were most likely having sex together, during the course of which they were attacked by the killer (or killers) with a hoe and sustained several wounds resulting in death. (Interesting how accurately the police theory about what happened foreshadowed the confessions the 2B would make a few days later). However, there is no evidence presented in the report for the presumption that the two victims had sex together at all. If this were the case, one would think that David's DNA would be found somewhere on Hannah's body, or at least inside the condom found on the beach. Otherwise, one might suggest that this was one of several possibilities but not supported by any forensic evidence.

Police reports in the media mentioned that some died blond hair was found in one of Hannah's hands and shortly before the arrest of the 2B police said they were about to arrest three Burmese, one of whom had had died blond hair on the night of the murders but had recently died it black again. The autopsy report didn't mention this and police have not referred to it since. None of the two Burmese suspects or their friend who was originally held as a witness had blond hair on the CCTV pictures on the night of the murders and it has never been made clear who the blond Burmese they referred to was. It is strange that no analysis was made of this potentially important piece of evidence. Equally there is no mention of any DNA traces found in Hannah's fingernails or teeth which would most likely have been the case, if she had fought her attackers. Nor is there any suggestion of the presence (or absence) of any other DNA traces in the form of pubic hair, which would normally be deposited in a rape, unless all rapists were completely clean shaven, or other tissue samples, apart from two lots of semen and one man's saliva found on nipples.

Police reports similarly said that David had wounds on his knuckles which he must have sustained as a result of trying to fight off his attackers. No mention of these wounds in the report which implies that he was struck on the head while having sex which presumably precluded fighting back or sustaining wounds on his knuckles.

If I was not aware that the British detectives were full of praise for the Thai police investigation which was exactly how they would have done things in the UK, I might be suspicious that police removed any extraneous details that didn't fit with the scenario they had decided on by the time they wrote the report. However, it is hard to imagine British plods sending the bodies of two murder victims for autopsy to a local cottage hospital which almost certainly wouldn't have the necessary equipment or even a qualified forensic pathologist. Would the plods then be satisfied with a perfunctory autopsy report which might be more appropriate in the case of terminally ill nonagenarians who had peacefully passed away in a hospice? Since we know the plods asserted they would have done exactly the same, I am now wondering how they manage to solve as many murder cases as they do but I am a rank amateur compared to the brilliant sleuths of Koh Tao and Scotland Yard with their common textbook.

Speechless, this is more than a bad movie! I simply cannot believe they dare to convict based on this report.

Welcome to Thai policing, evidence collection, analysis, and investigative expertise.

[Dogmatix]

Since a number of people have expressed interest in the autopsy report, I have taken the trouble to translate the one page extract from the report that has been posted online. It is unverified and lacks the preamble and signature pages among other things but is consistent with media reports that have appeared and seems likely to be genuine.

" Page 3

4.1.1. Severe injuries to the head and face caused by a hard blunt instrument consistent with the item referred to in the report (hoe found at the crime scene).

4.1.2. The area of the vagina exhibited signs of sexual assault.

4.1.3. Results of toxology.

4.1.3.1. No traces of psychotropics or psychoactive substances in the urine or blood.

4.1.3.2. No toxins from food found in the digestive tract.

4.1.4. Results of biochemical analysis.

4.1.4.1. In the area of the right nipple DNA was found from two individuals, Mr B and Mr C (assigned names).

4.1.4.2. Inside the vagina semen and DNA of Mr B was found.

4.1.4.3. In the vulva semen and DNA of Mr B and Mr C was found.

4.1.4. Cause of death. Severe injuries to the head and face caused by violent blows from a blunt instrument.

4.2. Autopsy report on the body of Mr David William Miller.

4.2.1. Severe injuries to the head and face caused by a hard blunt instrument consistent with the item referred in the report (hoe found at the crime scene).

4.2.2. No signs of sexual assault.

4.2.3. Water found in both sides of the chest cavity. Water induced swelling in both lungs.

4.2.4. Results of toxology.

4.2.4.1. No traces of psychotropics or other psychoactive substances in the urine or blood.

4.2.4.2. No toxins from food found in the digestive tract.

4.2.5. Results of biochemical analysis. No semen found in the anus. "

In the widely vewed interview with Sorayud on Channel 3 that can be found on Youtube, the deputy commander of the Institute of Forensic Science at the Police General Hospital, Police Colonel Dr Bhavat Prateepvisrut presented findings from the autopsy that seem identical to this report (illustrated below).

On 12 October Komchadluek also published an article that reported on the results of the autopsy using the same language as the extract that is translated above.

In addition, Komchadluek also reported that the police had explained the reason why they thought there was no DNA found inside the condom found at the scene with Hanna's blood on the outside. According to Komchadluek, police said that the condom was probably an old one left on the beach and that the blood on the outside of it was dripped from the hoe while the perpetrators were using it to murder her.

I am confused about this theory about the condom as I was under the impression that the condom was found at the spot where David's clothes and a large spatter of David's blood were found, whereas most of Hannah's blood was found by the rock where her body was found but I may be wrong on this point.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Dogmatix