British police examining Koh Tao murder probe to return to UK

[thhMan]

What ever the out comes they could only investigate as far as possible , that says that diplomatic talk will prevail and no media stops off the record will take place, pity, one would like to see the report however tossed up and feel good it is towards the RTP and Thai Administration, we can't have an international incident can we now.

Do you actually think the UK people will sit and take a diplomatic answer, regardless of Thailand's diplomatic status?

People have been slaughtered and the world is watching the UK too!

[Beetlejuice]

What findings? They will only have whatever the RTP gives them. There is no crime scene anymore.

More or less, yes you are right.

The British police were only on the scene as observers, they were not involved within the core of the investigation and were not there to intervene in the RTP progress or lack of process in the case.

Once back in the UK the police will only give an opinion (maybe) and will not go against the grain with the RTP case results. I beleive that the UK police will be tactful in their reports for the sake of UK and Thailand relations and will be disappointing.for those hoping for a hardcore response to this investigation by a totally independent authority whether they be positive or negative regarding the investigation so far, or in other words, expectations should not be raised too high on this one and I doubt that this case will progress any further than it has now and will still have the inevitable conclusions.

[draftvader]

Thai police get more time to ‘fix flaws’ in Koh Tao murders case

http://www.mizzima.com/mizzima-news/regional/item/14652-thai-police-get-more-time-to-fix-flaws-in-koh-tao-murders-case

Interesting. I know I'll be happy to celebrate those 2 lads walking away from this if there is not sufficient evidence. However I also know it will be a hollow victory if the correct people are not identified to face justice. This will be a long journey with each step feeling like summiting Everest! I still hold some hope in the UK inquest as that data will have to be made public so there is no hiding the results from their point of view. It will certainly be interesting times in January if that report holds significant differences to the prosecution case. Globally speaking it won't matter what Thailand says on this the rest of the world will believe Scotland Yard. Again I say that Thailand has an opportunity here. Each time they pass it by I feel more and more like using the word "arrogance" but I really don't want to go there out of respect for my Thai friends.

[DamienG]

I hope they release a full report on their findings and observations...

I agree and as soon as possible, before the 2 Burmese go to court and the RTP can put it to bed and forget it even happened.

[catsanddogs]

The Eastern Daily Press(EDP) is the daily local covering Norfolk and Suffolk - circulation approx 50,000. There is also another daily from Archant which is the Eastern Evening News (EEN) - circulation approx 17,000. The Great Yarmouth Mercury is a weekly which comes out on Friday - circulation approx 14,000.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/british_police_reviewing_the_hannah_witheridge_investigation_to_return_from_thailand_1_3842536

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/british_police_reviewing_the_hannah_witheridge_investigation_to_return_from_thailand_1_3842536

http://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/british_police_reviewing_the_hannah_witheridge_investigation_to_return_from_thailand_1_3842536

I just thought I'd put this info up here so posters are aware of the news coverage from the town and county that Hannah was from.

[Alwyn]

Sean-McAnna.jpg

No one has mentioned anything about our Sean lately and he does seem to have a penchant for self-agrandissment and spaced out incoherence. However, he might be a person the British police would want to interview, if they haven't done so already, as a background witness, given his allegation that Mon and his police friend threatened to 'suicide' him and fit him up posthumously for the murders and the knife-like wounds he sustained in a motor bike accident around the time of the murders.

It shouldn't be hard to find him. When he fled KT journalists reported that he had gone to stay with his girlfriend, Francesca Mussi of Milan, at her home in Italy. Here is the lady in question.

1538823_10203712652280815_5288101264704788533_n.jpg

Notice the guitar which had the DNA of its bloodstains tested by KT police. They apparently met in Leeds where the lady was studying which seems to be the backdrop here and here.

10645149_10205243216863973_2348552584891621871_n.jpg

Perhaps the guitar will eventually end up for sale at Sothebys. 555

Dogmatix of the yard....

[Equalizer]

I can sort of see both sets of parents starting to take the view that their kids are gone now and nothing will bring them back. I can sympathize with the hate they must feel inside when they hear the word Thailand. They will be resigning themselves to the view that nothing they say or do will change the way this country is going to follow this through, be it right or wrong. Even if they ask for leniency for these two kids because of the lingering doubts about the whole investigation, none will be offered. I just hope that Hannah and Davids sacrifice may some how stop the rot and make these people think twice before screwing up a murder scene and an investigation again.

[catsanddogs]

I hope you're wrong Equalizer. I for one would be willing to make a donation should the parents wish to start their own private investigation.

[delgarcon]

As others have mentioned, an independent analysis of DNA taken from the 2 accused should be enough to verify that they indeed are the prime suspects. I wonder if the British police asked for and were given a sample to try a match against DNA of the victims, which they already have. I somehow doubt it.

The problem is that nobody, not Thai, Burmese, British nor anyone else in the World, who has taken an interest in this terrible affair, will believe that justice has been done if the 2 Burmese are convicted only on the existing evidence.

Those of us living in Thailand know that corruption is rife throughout the kingdom, most of us from experience.

Here we go again. If the DNA-result from the victim in the RTP's evidence-room is tainted/fake, it doesn't matter how many additional tests are taken from the B2, or who conducts the new tests!!

My understanding was that the British already had samples of the DNA taken from the victims, so here we go again would be a pretty good idea in my opinion! Furthermore, if the foreign DNA discovered on the bodies has been totally cleansed, someone might ask why?

Edited November 11, 2014 by delgarcon

[rethaier]

I hope you're wrong Equalizer. I for one would be willing to make a donation should the parents wish to start their own private investigation.

Rather than make a donation so someone else can start a private investigation, why don't you take the initiative and take donations and start it yourself? Talk is cheap. Everybody is always willing to get in line until the chips are down and from a couple of personal experiences, I can tell you that when the chips are down and you check you back nobody is there.

[Baghdad]

Its not over until the Fat Lady sings

[Puccini]

It probably will be a "diplomatic" report. As the whole investigation was messed up big time there will be no reason to upset Thai authorities.

The press statement was certainly diplomatic. The use of diplomatic language is a science and special skills are needed to interpret it;

"...have completed their work, as far as possible..."

= They didn't get far, because of lack cooperation from the Thai side

"...The police team wish to thank the Thai authorities for facilitating the visit..."

= Thanks, but no thanks. We were allowed to enter Thailand and were taken to the murder scene, and that was about it.

The internal report will use plain language, I have no doubt, but probably will not make it into the news.

[catsanddogs]

Thanks Rethaier. I would be willing to give this a go but have no experience or knowledge of how to get something like this off the ground. I imagine that the parents would have to initiate/want a private investigation in the first place before an appeal could put into action.

[Alan653]

I can only hope that when the report is finalized, that they release it to the public/media so that everyone will know the results of it.

I also hope that Hannah's and David's family get some kind of clousure from it.

May God Bless them all.

[sambum]

Maybe this is because the whole case is such a cluster that it's virtually impossible for anyone be it British Police or anyone else to make head or tail of the 'evidence' collected by the Thai police.

This is already a much talked about subject but what I still don't get and what I don't believed has been mentioned is how have no witnesses have come forward claiming to have heard a commotion, the screams of the victims on the night of the fatal attack.

Presumably there would have been some noise from the victims. I imagine someone in their position would literally be screaming for their lives, yet it seems no one heard this in the dead of night on a quiet island? No local resident, fellow tourist or no body staying in a bungalow nearby heard a single thing of this horrific and fatal attack and double murder.

Nobody was woken up or heard of the commotion as the two innocent victims were being murdered?

I find that hard to believe.

I agree with 100% with everything in the post, except the final sentence!

[Ridler]

Maybe this is because the whole case is such a cluster that it's virtually impossible for anyone be it British Police or anyone else to make head or tail of the 'evidence' collected by the Thai police.

This is already a much talked about subject but what I still don't get and what I don't believed has been mentioned is how have no witnesses have come forward claiming to have heard a commotion, the screams of the victims on the night of the fatal attack.

Presumably there would have been some noise from the victims. I imagine someone in their position would literally be screaming for their lives, yet it seems no one heard this in the dead of night on a quiet island? No local resident, fellow tourist or no body staying in a bungalow nearby heard a single thing of this horrific and fatal attack and double murder.

Nobody was woken up or heard of the commotion as the two innocent victims were being murdered?

I find that hard to believe.

Yes and looking at details of the place where David and his friends were staying, Ocean View Bungalows, it seems that most rooms don't have aircon which is probably the same for other guest houses nearby as this is a backpacker resort. Therefore only the sound of ceiling fans to block out the blood curdling screams of the victims being systematically bludgeoned to death by murderers for whom this is probably a well worn routine. Given reports of the number of battering following by drowning deaths of foreigners on these islands, we can only surmise how many loso Thais and Burmese die the same way at the hands of serial killers at large in the area and nobody dares complain.

'Blood curdling screams' and 'being systematically bludgeoned to death', I think you have been reading to many Miss Marple stories.

[rethaier]

Thanks Rethaier. I would be willing to give this a go but have no experience or knowledge of how to get something like this off the ground. I imagine that the parents would have to initiate/want a private investigation in the first place before an appeal could put into action.

I imagine they have no idea how to do it either. If their already-in-place legal team can't do it I cannot imagine how anybody else could.

[HughJass]

The "as far as possible", could mean two things. It could simply mean that they have all the facts and consider they have no more to learn. It could also be a veiled reference to a lack of cooperation from the RTP in presenting all relevant information. I think we shall find out which in January.

It was declared that they will only be able to 'observe' the RTP investigation.

'As far as possible' is in reference to this, that they were not authorized to be involved in the investigation, or investigate the crime themselves, only observe the RTP investigation.

That must mean that they received a series of on site briefings from the Thai police regarding the investigation and explanations of what passes for 'due process' in Thailand but weren't allowed to do any investigation themselves and (horror of horrors) were certainly not allowed to take DNA samples for checking against what might be in the UK. They wouldn't have been able to interview any non-British witnesses independently, if at all. All the British witnesses to what happened immediately before and after the murders must have returned home and are available for interview. Sean McAnna is reportedly in Milan with Francesca Mussi and should be readily available for interview, if the plods care to take a budget flight to Milan, if they haven't already done so.

Looking back at the Kirsty Jones murder investigation, Welsh police who came out to Thailand to investigate were extremely tenacious and at one point announced a break through resulting in a a DNA match they made with skin cells on the sarong used to strangle Kirsty. (So they were allowed to take DNA samples and these were found on clothing, whereas in the KT murders no DNA was found anywhere except on two parts of Hannah's body and wasn't even found inside the condom apparently used to rape her.) However, the Welshmen's investigation soon got bogged down.

A letter to The Nation entitled, "If a Chiang Mai policeman killed Kirsty Jones, why not arrest and punish him?" probably summed up the Welsh police's frustration at the way Thai police started to impede the investigation when it got too close to their own ranks and vested interests for comfort.

Quickly summed up as: Thais always win in Thailand. They always protect Thais. They are in charge and you and your values mean nothing. Rape and murder, doesn't matter, they're Thainess (protect Thais at all cost) far out weighs it.

absolutely right..the place is a sh&thole of deceit, lies and corruption

apart from the thai apologists most of us stay here for the sunshine,cheap cost of living and available ladies

the rest of it we just put up with as the price of living here

milk boy and his gang are lucky i am not Hannahs dad

[Rykbanlor]

If certain members of the elite of Koh Tao contribute to the upper elite Billions of Baht in their ill gotten gains, I am sure they are given 007 status as you put it.

Their does seem to be a licence to kill on Koh Tao, many unsolved murders and suspicious deaths

Ah, my dear fellow, thats where you're wrong. There has NEVER been any unsolved murders or suspicious deaths on Koh Tao. At least, that's what the mayor or some such big Poo came out and said.

If you don't believe me you can ask JTJ or JDin Asia, I'm sure they'd fall over each other to confirm such truthiness.

[heyexile]

What ever the out comes they could only investigate as far as possible , that says that diplomatic talk will prevail and no media stops off the record will take place, pity, one would like to see the report however tossed up and feel good it is towards the RTP and Thai Administration, we can't have an international incident can we now.

In diplospeak world this is an international incident already. Demands for bikini apologies, summoning the charge d`affaires, expressing `concerns`, requesting transparency and fairness, calling off official EU visits plus support for Andy Hall in defamation cases, heavy uk gov travel warnings and on it goes. Sending a uk forensics team to further demonstrate `concerns`.

The message is increasingly don`t mess with the Brits. The days of gunships in the Gulf are gone but the days of the could shoulder and western condemnation are not

[Prbkk]

What findings? They will only have whatever the RTP gives them. There is no crime scene anymore.

More or less, yes you are right.

The British police were only on the scene as observers, they were not involved within the core of the investigation and were not there to intervene in the RTP progress or lack of process in the case.

Once back in the UK the police will only give an opinion (maybe) and will not go against the grain with the RTP case results. I beleive that the UK police will be tactful in their reports for the sake of UK and Thailand relations and will be disappointing.for those hoping for a hardcore response to this investigation by a totally independent authority whether they be positive or negative regarding the investigation so far, or in other words, expectations should not be raised too high on this one and I doubt that this case will progress any further than it has now and will still have the inevitable conclusions.

In respect of the approach to be taken by the UK police you are dead wrong. They will report things as they have found them , without fear or favour and without regard to any sensitivities in the relationship between the 2 countries. If they have found fault with the findings or the investigation, expect that to be aired at the inquest ( and yes, the coroner does have the power to call them). Similarly, if they find no fault with the process, we can expect to hear that clearly.

[sambum]

.

Who knows what the victims were doing at the time of the attack? Sleeping? Sex? Two other people with blunt objects could have killed them silently.

I'm saying it was a crime of opportunity perpetrated by total strangers with the high probability that the bodies were disturbed and abused by additional passers-by minutes after the initial attackers fled the scene.

enuff said

~

Twaddle! Passers by abusing dead blood stained mutilated corpses? What meds are you on?

[Krenjai]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoG2MOqtfXk

This Number 9 guy on this CCTV footage > look at the way he walks & look at his hair when he briefly turns his face to the side? I have no doubt!

Did David know him? Or was this a sort of "never mind" shake hand about what happened earlier that night? (A fight?). Did David just come back from escorting Hannah to her room? JUST IMHO

Edited November 11, 2014 by Krenjai

[sambum]

.

Who knows what the victims were doing at the time of the attack? Sleeping? Sex? Two other people with blunt objects could have killed them silently.

I'm saying it was a crime of opportunity perpetrated by total strangers with the high probability that the bodies were disturbed and abused by additional passers-by minutes after the initial attackers fled the scene.

enuff said

~

According to the KT police report that was published online, the victims were believed by police to have been having sex and were disturbed by assailants who beat them both to death with the same blunt instrument thought to be the hoe that was found nearby with Hannah's blood on it but not David's.

So if they were both beaten to death with the same "blunt" instrument, how come there was none of David's blood on it?

[marcusd]

Reading between the line "as far as possible" usually means TOTALLY NON CO OPERATIVE THAILAND.

Otherwise Police use courtesy such as "Assisted and Helpful and Thorough" in their reports.

I think this is not the end of this matter. Too many people world wide have taken notice and even if the relationship between the countries matters more, the pockets of tourists are something that will speak louder than words.

[rethaier]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoG2MOqtfXk

This Number 9 guy on this CCTV footage > look at the way he walks & look at his hair when he briefly turns his face to the side? I have no doubt!

Did David know him? Or was this a sort of "never mind" shake hand about what happened earlier that night? (A fight?). Did David just come back from escorting Hannah to her room? JUST IMHO

This clip 3 hours beforehand means absolutely nothing. IMHO it's just something to fill some time on the news of a topical case. But people much smarter than me will certainly be able to draw conclusions that are far superior to mine.

Edited November 11, 2014 by rethaier

[masuk]

It probably will be a "diplomatic" report. As the whole investigation was messed up big time there will be no reason to upset Thai authorities.

I wouldn't be that pessimistic

Anyway good there is another headline about this utterly evil case.

It should not disappear from headlines and from consciousness until it is properly solved and justice is done

If Thailand, her police and politicians lose face big time and much more - so be it. Well deserved

I've been wondering of late what happened to the wealthy guy who drove over and killed a policeman.

Has this been settled out of court or given the broom and carpet treatment?

[Pui]

What findings? They will only have whatever the RTP gives them. There is no crime scene anymore.

My thoughts entirely, they had over a month to "prepare" the forensic evidence. They will only find what the Thai Police want them to find. Its not like can get GCHQ to check phone calls, emails etc. or examine paperwork becuase its all in Thai. All they have a month old crime scene.

[draftvader]

What findings? They will only have whatever the RTP gives them. There is no crime scene anymore.

My thoughts entirely, they had over a month to "prepare" the forensic evidence. They will only find what the Thai Police want them to find. Its not like can get GCHQ to check phone calls, emails etc. or examine paperwork becuase its all in Thai. All they have a month old crime scene.

You think GCHQ can't get a translator?

[Suradit69]

It probably will be a "diplomatic" report. As the whole investigation was messed up big time there will be no reason to upset Thai authorities.

And the British Police have plenty of bungled investigations, falsified evidence and corruption to deal with back in UK without the purely pointless politically inspired visit to Thailand.

The British police admit corruption and incompetence is endemic in UK, so why they feel justified to travel to other countries to spread it further afield is a mystery.

Police corruption cannot be eliminated’ admits head of special Met unit

Corruption inside law enforcement agencies is impossible to eliminate, according to the man charged with tackling malpractice inside Scotland Yard.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exclusive-police-corruption-cannot-be-eliminated-admits-head-of-specialmet-unit-following-independent-stories-9070682.html