British police examining Koh Tao murder probe to return to UK

[thailandchilli]

I read on Thai visa that the UK police had already returned, there's some crap go's on, with some people on this site, putting all that aside, let's hope that we can hear something new from their report, instead of half the crap we hear already, and without a lot of the Facebook shit that people spread

The facebook shit as you put it is more credible than anything on here. To post on the facebook shit you need to have your real name. Here you can be anything you want.

Absolutely untrue as shown by the vast majority of people posting on that FB page who don't use their names (including the owner of the page)

Rubbish. Take a look and see how old the accounts are, most are personal accounts that date back 5 years +...........real names, real Thai people who are looking for justice and taking a personal risk in doing so, 400,000 + and counting. You'll also find the owner has publicly revealed his real name, had TV interviews and made public statements

Edited November 11, 2014 by thailandchilli

[stephen terry]

Not stalking, just sure I remembered you saying you were not in Thailand.

I am sure people can decide what your post means

Edit to stay on topic. I really am looking forward to seeing any report that the UK police publish. If gambling were legal here, I would put money on it saying little other than that there were mistakes made in the beginning. That there was no evidence of torture. That it is now appropriately in the hands of the Thai judicial system.

I'm sure the RTP and Thai PM are also really looking forward to seeing the UK report as per your speculation. If gambling was legal here I would take your bets.

But it ain't gonna happen! "appalling mess" quoted by one of the top QC's in the UK http://time.com/3512541/thailand-koh-tao-murder-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-2/

The investigation report will be damning, honest and no words will be minced. Unfortunately the public version will also be translated into a carefully worded diplomatic statement. The phrases and terms used in that statement will be of the kind that are well known as a condemnation of the investigation.

If you really think its going to be anything other than that then your dreaming. The indications are already there about how this has gone for the UK police team.

Behind the scenes is what matters most. I don't hold out much hope that the authorities will waver from their stated position, i.e. the B2 are the culprits.

Edited November 11, 2014 by stephen terry

[BoristheBlade]

Everyone's opinion is more credible, including the RTP ...even they know it's a stitch up

Hmmmm a UK defense attorney has an opinion...

Yes in my opinion its just a little more credible than yours

[sambum]

if there is no photo op put together by the RTP for the Thai media before they leave, this may give you an indication of how well their investigation went...

As we know in Thailand everyone likes a photo op...

if they leave quietly with no "fanfare" and no photo's of some RTP poo yai shaking their hands and wishing them well, one could assume the relationship between the UK cops and RTP wasn't that kosher

The fact that they were not invited or attended the DNA sampling of a certain gentlemen in BKK certainly suggests that this visit may not have gone so well,

I mean surely the RTP would have tried to use the British coppers to get some "credibility" around this testing, maybe they were asked and said no...

Thais feel they are never wrong, and if wrong, mai pen rai. They most certainly would not have tried to use the British police to gain some credibility. In the mind of The RTP, they are off the hook and have been for several weeks.

What should be really at issue here, I'm afraid is this.

1. Forget about any "justice" for David and Hannah. As sickening as that is, just put that out of your mind.

2. Free the B2. What really needs to be concentrated on is this: how can the RTP save face and the international public see that the B2 are released? No more innocent blood should be spilled over this. Anyone who can figure out how to free the two Burmese stitched up for this AND at the same time save the precious face of the RTP will have my vote for next humanitarian of the year.

How about the Prosecutor, having fired the "perfect" case back at the RTP so many times already for further "adjustments" saying - "Sorry, you've had your chance(s) - no case to answer" The RTP can then say the case was dismissed due to insufficient evidence, (no loss of face) and the Burmese boys are freed because there would be no case to answer.The Burmese Government is happy that 2 of their people have been freed and therefore presumed innocent, and the British Government is happy because their own police's "observations" could be construed as having had a positive effect on the Prosecutor's decision to throw out the case. Everybody happy, except of course David and Hannah's parents (because the real perpetrators would still be at large, and presumably, still living on/connected with Koh Tao), the Koh Tao "Tourist Board" (who'd want that job?) and the real perpetrators of the crime, who thought that they'd got away with it, and didn't. Do I have your vote?

Have thought of your scenario as a poss face saver for Thai Authorities but it must be too late. The PM and the good Police Commissioner General already said publicly case perfect/complete and their evidence proved it. No way back from that. Could blame it on a picky prosecutor dept and spin that as Thai justice in action but everyone knows judiciary is also under martial law and can be overruled by said top cop and PM anyway and forced to proceed. Judge could then also be pressured and overruled if required. They have to stand by their perfect case or massively lose further face?

Whatever, family, friends, social media and we hope HMG will continue to seek justice for poor David and Hannah.

Have to say that things are seldom too late in LOS! If I remember correctly, the prosecutor fired the case back to the Police after they had presented a "perfect" case, and has done so at least on one other occasion. "No way back from that"? That must have meant massive loss of face for the BIB, but they had to go away and come back with new reports after "further investigation" was required, and to be sent away a second (or maybe even 3rd time) beggars belief! However, points taken re martial law, top cop, and PM. As things stand, we shall just have to wait and see if the Brit cops report contains anything untoward (which I doubt!) but if it does, then once again we will see further massive loss of face - how much face can Thailand lose?

[jdinasia]

I read on Thai visa that the UK police had already returned, there's some crap go's on, with some people on this site, putting all that aside, let's hope that we can hear something new from their report, instead of half the crap we hear already, and without a lot of the Facebook shit that people spread

The facebook shit as you put it is more credible than anything on here. To post on the facebook shit you need to have your real name. Here you can be anything you want.

Absolutely untrue as shown by the vast majority of people posting on that FB page who don't use their names (including the owner of the page)

Rubbish. Take a look and see how old the accounts are, most are personal accounts that date back 5 years +...........real names, real Thai people who are looking for justice and taking a personal risk in doing so, 400,000 + and counting. You'll also find the owner has publicly revealed his real name, had TV interviews and made public statements

I just glanced at posts on the page, most did not have real names. I thought in his interview he hid his identity (again, as he does as page admin)

[CharlieH]

Post removed:

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[thailandchilli]

Jdinasia@

I just glanced at posts on the page, most did not have real names. I thought in his interview he hid his identity (again, as he does as page admin)

No he was in full view when interviewed in the US by a visiting Thai TV channel

Please do not lie about the posters, they deserve a little respect take a look again, posts to the page are real. I can take a screen shot if you find difficulty in that.

Edited November 11, 2014 by thailandchilli

[gbswales]

I am looking forward to the report.

When there is "as far as possible" in inverted comma's in the article that certainly implies the British Authorities will be forthright when releasing the report to the public.

A third party DNA analysis is all it takes.

Not if ALL the original samples were contaminated or fixed. I am far more concerned about the fate of the current suspects than I am about unearthing the truth. If the killers are "connected" then Thai reform has not moved far enough yet to have any hope of bringing them to justice but it is better that the crime go unsolved than to execute two young men on flawed evidence. Two unecessary deaths is awful but four would be too much to countenance. It would I feel be better to leave the crime unsolved for years - maybe until a time when a different type of investigation can be anticipated.

One question I have is what is a "headman" on the island - is it code for a mafia boss? If this government needs to tackle anything it is this culture that puts people with vast amounts of money "above the law"

[stephen terry]

I am looking forward to the report.

When there is "as far as possible" in inverted comma's in the article that certainly implies the British Authorities will be forthright when releasing the report to the public.

A third party DNA analysis is all it takes.

Not if ALL the original samples were contaminated or fixed. I am far more concerned about the fate of the current suspects than I am about unearthing the truth. If the killers are "connected" then Thai reform has not moved far enough yet to have any hope of bringing them to justice but it is better that the crime go unsolved than to execute two young men on flawed evidence. Two unecessary deaths is awful but four would be too much to countenance. It would I feel be better to leave the crime unsolved for years - maybe until a time when a different type of investigation can be anticipated.

One question I have is what is a "headman" on the island - is it code for a mafia boss? If this government needs to tackle anything it is this culture that puts people with vast amounts of money "above the law"

Totally agree, if there can be any doubt that the B2 committed these murders. I still have an uneasy feeling (see one of my above posts) that they could have been present at the crime scene (hence the reported DNA match) but not willing to divulge anything until they were safe from retribution.

[jdinasia]

Jdinasia@

No he was in full view when interviewed in the US by a visiting Thai TV channel

Please do not lie about the posters, they deserve a little respect take a look again, posts to the page are real. I can take a screen shot if you find difficulty in that.

I again ran through many posts on that page, the vast majority were not real names. Perhaps you are limiting yourself to English?

Alas people will need to make up their own minds if the posters on the conspiracy theorist page are real or not as we cannot link/post from there

The interview I saw with the admin was in Thai, his identity masked, his name not given.

Back to the topic

[thailandchilli]

Jdinasia@

No he was in full view when interviewed in the US by a visiting Thai TV channel

Please do not lie about the posters, they deserve a little respect take a look again, posts to the page are real. I can take a screen shot if you find difficulty in that.

I again ran through many posts on that page, the vast majority were not real names. Perhaps you are limiting yourself to English?

Alas people will need to make up their own minds if the posters on the conspiracy theorist page are real or not as we cannot link/post from there

The interview I saw with the admin was in Thai, his identity masked, his name not given.

Back to the topic

You are referring to the interview carried out over the internet where his voice was masked. I am not I am referring to a full interview in the US by Thai tv

yes back to topic

[inutil]

Jdinasia@

No he was in full view when interviewed in the US by a visiting Thai TV channel

Please do not lie about the posters, they deserve a little respect take a look again, posts to the page are real. I can take a screen shot if you find difficulty in that.

I again ran through many posts on that page, the vast majority were not real names. Perhaps you are limiting yourself to English?

Alas people will need to make up their own minds if the posters on the conspiracy theorist page are real or not as we cannot link/post from there

The interview I saw with the admin was in Thai, his identity masked, his name not given.

Back to the topic

So let me ask, is your point here that theyre not real acocunts? That theyre all just sock puppets of a few random anti-government haters?

Are you suggesting... a conspiracy?

I thought you hated conspiracies, big man? And here you are with one of the daftest ones yet.

Just so you know. I also made up my last name on facebook. And it has nothing at all to do with the situation in Thailand. Its because i just dont want random people to type my name into a google search and find my facebook profile on their hits.

Edited November 11, 2014 by inutil

[jdinasia]

Jdinasia@

No he was in full view when interviewed in the US by a visiting Thai TV channel

Please do not lie about the posters, they deserve a little respect take a look again, posts to the page are real. I can take a screen shot if you find difficulty in that.

I again ran through many posts on that page, the vast majority were not real names. Perhaps you are limiting yourself to English?

Alas people will need to make up their own minds if the posters on the conspiracy theorist page are real or not as we cannot link/post from there

The interview I saw with the admin was in Thai, his identity masked, his name not given.

Back to the topic

So let me ask, is your point here that theyre not real acocunts? That theyre all just sock puppets of a few random anti-government haters?

Are you suggesting... a conspiracy?

I thought you hated conspiracies big man? And here you are with the daftest one yet.

No, it was a response to the claim that FB is less anonymous than TVF.

But you did just create new conspiracy theories

[inutil]

Its very much a pain in the arse to run that many sock puppets on facebook. Traffic on this site and on these threads are significantly easier to disrupt. Id go with the argument that regardless of anonymity (both are equivalent), one would involve a far more significant time investment (and the work of a lot of busy hands), whilst the other would require only a few people with nothing better to do than troll a message board. Im glad we've established though, that youre not suggesting anything at all to do with those accounts being fake, just that they might be anonymous (for whatever personal reasons of the individuals who own them). Any further clains would of course have been utter nonsense, after all.

Edited November 11, 2014 by inutil

[thailandchilli]

Jdinasia@

No he was in full view when interviewed in the US by a visiting Thai TV channel

Please do not lie about the posters, they deserve a little respect take a look again, posts to the page are real. I can take a screen shot if you find difficulty in that.

I again ran through many posts on that page, the vast majority were not real names. Perhaps you are limiting yourself to English?

Alas people will need to make up their own minds if the posters on the conspiracy theorist page are real or not as we cannot link/post from there

The interview I saw with the admin was in Thai, his identity masked, his name not given.

Back to the topic

So let me ask, is your point here that theyre not real acocunts? That theyre all just sock puppets of a few random anti-government haters?

Are you suggesting... a conspiracy?

I thought you hated conspiracies big man? And here you are with the daftest one yet.

No, it was a response to the claim that FB is less anonymous than TVF.

But you did just create new conspiracy theories

Here's his photo he has published many of himself on his page, would you like to do the same?

Who's more credible, him or you?

[heyexile]

Just stop going to koh Tao. Hell, stop going to thailand if you have a choice. Wait for these people to grow up before you hand them Any more money.

You'll be waiting a long, long time.

Precisely.

Folks, this ain't no rocket science. The reason Thais don't learn is they get rewarded for bad behavior, kinda like that annoying dog that gets love and attention every time it jumps up on somebody. I know I ain't solving any problems with a few words here, but the only way reform is taking place in thailand is if the tourist dollars stop flowing. The powers that be will have a meeting or two then, and only then.

Tourists will not stop coming. The numbers may drop a bit but most people will never hear of most of this because all they read is the sports pages all all they watch is Sports. They, for the most part will be oblivious.

Just the sort of quality tourist the general is looking for to experience the rich heritage of Thainess then?

You may find that educated young Brits (Eu`s Aussies Yanks et al) like poor Hannah and David do not fit your stereotype. Despite attempts to have all neg comment immediately removed from TripAdvisor Ko Tao Forum Topics, the educated young (business fodder of the isles) will stay aware. Some even read the world news before the sports I hear and many keep informed through social media. This is a huge blow to tourism and to the well deserved `legitimacy` of the regime itself.

[Maroon Watcher]

Let's Not forget that these young people were battered to death

First the boy was beaten unconscious, in front of some who thought he offered some protection -

then she was raped, with the further torture that she was next -

This heinous crime MUST have its Justice - not another disaster for Thailand "Face"

There must be no escape for this kind of crime against all civilised people,
adding to the many disgraceful acts, that go unpunished,

unpublished
and unsolved

EVERY DAY in Thailand

This is NOT a "one off" event...

Shame On Everyone, who looks the other way -

the perpetrators and bystanders will not be "reborn into a new life"
but will serve eternity in hell and damnation

Edited November 11, 2014 by metisdead
Unnecessary usage of bold font removed.

[Krenjai]

COMPARE THIS RAW CCTV FOOTAGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui5aQOaAXgQ#t=260

Go to 3.41 in the first video & compare with 0.15 in the second video? IMHO I clearly see the same walk, hair, movement etc.

[Luang]

Let's Not forget that these young people were battered to death

First the boy was beaten unconscious, in front of some who thought he offered some protection -

then she was raped, with the further torture that she was next -

This heinous crime MUST have its Justice - not another disaster for Thailand "Face"

There must be no escape for this kind of crime against all civilised people,

adding to the many disgraceful acts, that go unpunished,

unpublished

and unsolved

EVERY DAY in Thailand

This is NOT a "one off" event...

Shame On Everyone, who looks the other way -

the perpetrators and bystanders will not be "reborn into a new life"

but will serve eternity in hell and damnation

Let's hope so!

[Krenjai]

Comparison 0.15 in video 1 with 3.41 in video 2, YOU BE THE JUDGE!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui5aQOaAXgQ#t=260

[heyexile]

I am looking forward to the report.

When there is "as far as possible" in inverted comma's in the article that certainly implies the British Authorities will be forthright when releasing the report to the public.

A third party DNA analysis is all it takes.

Not if ALL the original samples were contaminated or fixed. I am far more concerned about the fate of the current suspects than I am about unearthing the truth. If the killers are "connected" then Thai reform has not moved far enough yet to have any hope of bringing them to justice but it is better that the crime go unsolved than to execute two young men on flawed evidence. Two unecessary deaths is awful but four would be too much to countenance. It would I feel be better to leave the crime unsolved for years - maybe until a time when a different type of investigation can be anticipated.

One question I have is what is a "headman" on the island - is it code for a mafia boss? If this government needs to tackle anything it is this culture that puts people with vast amounts of money "above the law"

Headman I understand means local government area official and is translated by western press as `Mayor`. This particular area head is very well connected through the PDRC all the way to the venerable Suthep. Further and Beyond.

Hope no accidents meet the B2 now, seems unlikely but........

Thai journalists overseas (eg asiancorrespondent) maybe able to reveal some truths or a change in regime may bring about a reckoning, amnesties permitting.

Edit add: "above the law". well that would inc the Supreme Commander of Police and his hand-picked Police Commissiner General of course, and rightly so.

Edited November 11, 2014 by heyexile

[Squeegee]

It's the 'as far as possible' that will eventually result in an investigatory doc going sniffing around amongst the settling dust.

[jdinasia]

@thailandchilli

Me

[Mooner]

@thailandchilli

Me

Sorry JD. You have been caught out again. The speedboat claim. The admittance of an extra weapon on David and now claiming that the CSI guy was hiding his identity.

[jdinasia]

@thailandchilli

Me

Sorry JD. You have been caught out again. The speedboat claim. The admittance of an extra weapon on David and now claiming that the CSI guy was hiding his identity.

Huh??

He was.

I made an error re: time from KT to Samui (and admitted it--wasn't it you that demanded an apology? You got one and still...)

Weapon? Not conclusive yet

( I am not the topic)

Edited November 11, 2014 by jdinasia

[Mooner]

The weapon is not conclusive but even you said it seems a hoe was not the weapon.

I acknowledged ur apology on the speedboat.

Again you are wrong on the identity.

You are not the topic but you seem to like making yourself it with your opinions when they ultimately turn out to be embarrassingly wrong.

You seem to argue for the sake of arguing.

[meand]

I'll continue to pray this snowballs into a even more enormous mess, and takes a large part of the tourism industry with it. Thailand truly does deserve it and needs to come into the 21 century.

[seahorse]

And then:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-21027103

Missing Thailand traveller Tom Armstrong found 'safe and well'

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/620277-missing-british-thailand-traveller-tom-armstrong-found-safe-and-well/

[jdinasia]

The weapon is not conclusive but even you said it seems a hoe was not the weapon.

I acknowledged ur apology on the speedboat.

Again you are wrong on the identity.

You are not the topic but you seem to like making yourself it with your opinions when they ultimately turn out to be embarrassingly wrong.

You seem to argue for the sake of arguing.

Again I am not the topic.

He was keeping his identity secret (that has apparently changed) to demand an apology then keep bringing it up after it is offered is trolling. I did not say that the hoe was not the weapon. Feel free to find where I said that and I will apologize again (if you don't, please do the correct thing and apologize, if you do I will apologize again but then drop it)

[Mooner]

The weapon is not conclusive but even you said it seems a hoe was not the weapon.

I acknowledged ur apology on the speedboat.

Again you are wrong on the identity.

You are not the topic but you seem to like making yourself it with your opinions when they ultimately turn out to be embarrassingly wrong.

You seem to argue for the sake of arguing.

Again I am not the topic.

He was keeping his identity secret (that has apparently changed) to demand an apology then keep bringing it up after it is offered is trolling. I did not say that the hoe was not the weapon. Feel free to find where I said that and I will apologize again (if you don't, please do the correct thing and apologize, if you do I will apologize again but then drop

You used the words "it seems so" after I asked you to watch the Thai tv show anylizying David's injuries.

Generally you never seem to answer a direct question. Your replies are usually deflections or clever retorts.