Plodprasob says Pheu Thai will not join charter writing process

[Donnie Brasco]

Expats opining on Thailand's domestic affairs = soi dogs awakened from their fitful so slumber by dust-men starting morning rounds.

We live here. Some of us for many many years. And whilst we have no vote, we do have opinions on the way things are run in our adopted country which do, even inadvertently impact on our lives, and this forum gives us a platform to do just that. Now. Have you anything to say regards the topic or are you just kvetching?

I refer to the considerable degree of restriction and historical perspective and resultant prejudice shown by a significant number of commentators to this particular thread.

Sorry chaps, this "muckling on to a body of received wisdom", this 3rd class seat many think they've wheedled for themselves on some elegant pedigree bus (all the while posturing . . . . . as if) . . . . . . is tenuous at best.

The faux consensus wafting out of a heap obtuse accusations and cheap shots has little or no place in a serious conversation about what will be happening soon enough around us here.

A pack of one-eyed dogs staring at a 3-D movie howling for popcorn.

And, finally, this is hardly the time or the place for yenta-speak.

Capice !?!?

[Mudcrab]

It would seem that the Pheu Thai party is really peeved at not being invited. They stated a few times before that they would not cooperate and not obstruct and adapt a 'wait-and-so' stance for the time till reforms and charter activities got more form.

Somehow it seems they are now annoyed taken by their word that they wouldn't cooperate. " 'not invited', tjeez did the NRC, CDC, whoever think we really meant it?"

As I wrote before, an overwhelming response could have had positive influences.

"I warned you, but did you listen to me? Oh, no, you knew it all, didn't you?"

With thanks to Monty Python

It would seem that the Pheu Thai party is really peeved at not being invited.

Despite your attempt to portray a political parties decision not to take part in any type of charter writing process which has come about as the result of a coup that removed democracy from Thailand, as some sort of petulance, it is more likely that the clarification of the PTP's position was due to this erroneous report

The Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC) says it welcomes opinions from all sectors, and various political parties have already accepted its invitation to discuss the charter drafting.

The CDC is scheduled to hold discussions with those parties on the following dates: November 17th with the Pheu Thai Party,.........................

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/776208-several-political-parties-accept-to-participate-in-the-thai-charter-drafting-discussion/#entry8664800

Pips, all your posts are "erroneous reports", but we just ignore them !

Thanks Mike I was trying to remember the red stalwarts - Richteachar, Moonao...I forgot about Pipkins...gee there were a few of them -or one of them with many names.

Who was the robert amsterdams alter ego?

[Mudcrab]

Expats opining on Thailand's domestic affairs = soi dogs awakened from their fitful so slumber by dust-men starting morning rounds.

We live here. Some of us for many many years. And whilst we have no vote, we do have opinions on the way things are run in our adopted country which do, even inadvertently impact on our lives, and this forum gives us a platform to do just that. Now. Have you anything to say regards the topic or are you just kvetching?

I refer to the considerable degree of restriction and historical perspective and resultant prejudice shown by a significant number of commentators to this particular thread.

Sorry chaps, this "muckling on to a body of received wisdom", this 3rd class seat many think they've wheedled for themselves on some elegant pedigree bus (all the while posturing . . . . . as if) . . . . . . is tenuous at best.

The faux consensus wafting out of a heap obtuse accusations and cheap shots has little or no place in a serious conversation about what will be happening soon enough around us here.

A pack of one-eyed dogs staring at a 3-D movie howling for popcorn.

And, finally, this is hardly the time or the place for yenta-speak.

Capice !?!?

Donnie.....with all respect.....this is an English language forum

[tbthailand]

It would seem that the Pheu Thai party is really peeved at not being invited.

Despite your attempt to portray a political parties decision not to take part in any type of charter writing process which has come about as the result of a coup that removed democracy from Thailand, as some sort of petulance, it is more likely that the clarification of the PTP's position was due to this erroneous report

The Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC) says it welcomes opinions from all sectors, and various political parties have already accepted its invitation to discuss the charter drafting.

The CDC is scheduled to hold discussions with those parties on the following dates: November 17th with the Pheu Thai Party,.........................

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/776208-several-political-parties-accept-to-participate-in-the-thai-charter-drafting-discussion/#entry8664800

Ah, thanks. I missed that one, been a bit busy lately.

So, Pheu Thai only got a phone call to ask them to join, but no formal invitation.

The "pointed out that the party could not send an official representative to meet the CDC but could, at best, offer some general views" in the OP is still a bit confusing then. Its not explicitly stated why they couldn't send an official representative. That may be related to the 'formal' stance of the party on not participating of course.

If they send an "official" representative to meet the CDC they would be endorsing the process, hence no show.

1) exactly. And there is no reason for any Thai who is interested in actual democracy to either endorse or participate in this charade.

2) it is a farce anyway. no one can possibly believe that ideas from the PTP, UDD, or democratically minded groups would get considered honestly

3) the point of reforms is not to create a democratic society, but to re-establish firm elitist control of the government and the society

IMO, this process will be a success for the anti-democratic, traditional elites and their military partners. In the end, it will most likely fall apart.

But in the end could be 10+ years down the road.

[fab4]

If they send an "official" representative to meet the CDC they would be endorsing the process, hence no show.

Or maybe they're simply not interested in any reforms unless they can decide all on their own what they are.

Well that could be the reason but I doubt it. That "reason" however is applicable to those who will make the ultimate decision on reforms, otherwise they've gone to a lot of trouble for nothing. Please don't try and deny what the end game is here...............................

Edited November 14, 2014 by fab4

[heybruce]

"If they had the people at heart then they would be asking those who support them what they wanted."

How will they do that when there is a ban an political gatherings of five or more people?

Possibly their ex Mp's could just go round and talk to people without actually holding political meetings, you know communicate.

But that's probably to much to ask from those who are no longer being paid, as was reported in the BKK post, when the ex PT MP's were complaining their payments from the party had stopped when they were no longer MP's.

Then maybe write a little report (list) and send it in to whoever is designated to be the spokesman. But then they said they wouldn't take part so obviously no one in charge.

Or there are new modern ways to communicate like phones, internet.

So everyone who considers himself/herself a leader goes in their own direction, comes up with their own take on what the people want, and volunteers to be the party representative on junta committees.

That's a good plan for fragmenting the party, it's a lousy plan for getting a consensus view on how the party should participate in the junta and what its inputs should be. Is it any wonder the party doesn't want to play by junta rules?

Until the junta lifts its ban on political gatherings it won't get meaningful political input. But I suspect that's what it wants, or doesn't want.

How did you manage to twist my post into that ?.

It would seem that other parties have managed to appoint someone to speak for them in spite of restrictions, they are in there being heard and representing their voters.

But you are probably right, in that if PT don't have a meeting then their great thinker cant Skype in and tell them what to do.

"How did you manage to twist my post into that ?"

I used logic.

"It would seem that other parties have managed to appoint someone to speak for them in spite of restrictions, they are in there being heard and representing their voters."

Are you sure?

"While the NRC was debating whether or not to include people from outside, (namely former political stakeholders such as members from the ousted ruling Pheu Thai Party and their red shirt supporters, or the opposition Democrat Party – all largely sidelined since the military coup) in the end vehemently rejecting this idea, the other government bodies have fielded their CDC nominations with less buzz: the military-dominated ersatz-parliament National Legislative Assembly (NLA) and the junta cabinet of ministers and the junta itself, officially called the “National Council for Peace and Order” (NCPO), have appointed five members each.

The NCPO also chose the chairman of the CDC: Borwornsak Uwanno, law professor at Chulalongkorn University and secretary-general of the King Prajadhipok Institute.....junta leader and prime minister General Prayuth Chan-ocha has reportedly picked all the cabinet’s nominations for the CDC “by himself”.."

"However, the partisanship of all government bodies under the military junta makes it clear yet again that the so-called “reform process” will not include all sides of the political spectrum – it’s quite an one-sided raw deal for everyone (naively) hoping for a quick return to democracy in Thailand."

http://www.thestate.com/2014/11/04/3788695/thai-junta-appoints-charter-drafting.html

Edited November 14, 2014 by heybruce

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Expats opining on Thailand's domestic affairs = soi dogs awakened from their fitful so slumber by dust-men starting morning rounds.

We live here. Some of us for many many years. And whilst we have no vote, we do have opinions on the way things are run in our adopted country which do, even inadvertently impact on our lives, and this forum gives us a platform to do just that. Now. Have you anything to say regards the topic or are you just kvetching?

I refer to the considerable degree of restriction and historical perspective and resultant prejudice shown by a significant number of commentators to this particular thread.

Sorry chaps, this "muckling on to a body of received wisdom", this 3rd class seat many think they've wheedled for themselves on some elegant pedigree bus (all the while posturing . . . . . as if) . . . . . . is tenuous at best.

The faux consensus wafting out of a heap obtuse accusations and cheap shots has little or no place in a serious conversation about what will be happening soon enough around us here.

A pack of one-eyed dogs staring at a 3-D movie howling for popcorn.

And, finally, this is hardly the time or the place for yenta-speak.

Capice !?!?

I guess you call this a constructive message.

[fab4]

Ah, thanks. I missed that one, been a bit busy lately.

So, Pheu Thai only got a phone call to ask them to join, but no formal invitation.

The "pointed out that the party could not send an official representative to meet the CDC but could, at best, offer some general views" in the OP is still a bit confusing then. Its not explicitly stated why they couldn't send an official representative. That may be related to the 'formal' stance of the party on not participating of course.

If they send an "official" representative to meet the CDC they would be endorsing the process, hence no show.

What a very shop steward, has been, trade union official response that was.

and that's a bad thing?

[tbthailand]

Possibly their ex Mp's could just go round and talk to people without actually holding political meetings, you know communicate.

But that's probably to much to ask from those who are no longer being paid, as was reported in the BKK post, when the ex PT MP's were complaining their payments from the party had stopped when they were no longer MP's.

Then maybe write a little report (list) and send it in to whoever is designated to be the spokesman. But then they said they wouldn't take part so obviously no one in charge.

Or there are new modern ways to communicate like phones, internet.

So everyone who considers himself/herself a leader goes in their own direction, comes up with their own take on what the people want, and volunteers to be the party representative on junta committees.

That's a good plan for fragmenting the party, it's a lousy plan for getting a consensus view on how the party should participate in the junta and what its inputs should be. Is it any wonder the party doesn't want to play by junta rules?

Until the junta lifts its ban on political gatherings it won't get meaningful political input. But I suspect that's what it wants, or doesn't want.

How did you manage to twist my post into that ?.

It would seem that other parties have managed to appoint someone to speak for them in spite of restrictions, they are in there being heard and representing their voters.

But you are probably right, in that if PT don't have a meeting then their great thinker cant Skype in and tell them what to do.

"How did you manage to twist my post into that ?"

I used logic.

"It would seem that other parties have managed to appoint someone to speak for them in spite of restrictions, they are in there being heard and representing their voters."

Are you sure?

"While the NRC was debating whether or not to include people from outside, (namely former political stakeholders such as members from the ousted ruling Pheu Thai Party and their red shirt supporters, or the opposition Democrat Party – all largely sidelined since the military coup) in the end vehemently rejecting this idea, the other government bodies have fielded their CDC nominations with less buzz: the military-dominated ersatz-parliament National Legislative Assembly (NLA) and the junta cabinet of ministers and the junta itself, officially called the “National Council for Peace and Order” (NCPO), have appointed five members each.

The NCPO also chose the chairman of the CDC: Borwornsak Uwanno, law professor at Chulalongkorn University and secretary-general of the King Prajadhipok Institute.....junta leader and prime minister General Prayuth Chan-ocha has reportedly picked all the cabinet’s nominations for the CDC “by himself”.."

"However, the partisanship of all government bodies under the military junta makes it clear yet again that the so-called “reform process” will not include all sides of the political spectrum – it’s quite an one-sided raw deal for everyone (naively) hoping for a quick return to democracy in Thailand."

http://www.thestate.com/2014/11/04/3788695/thai-junta-appoints-charter-drafting.html

yep, that's the reality of the situation.

anybody thinking that this is (1) reform, or (2) intended to be inclusive, is basically blind

[MJP]

This Plodprasob. Is this the "moored boats used to push water down the river as a flood alleviation measure" bloke?

[icare999]

this viloe excuse for s human being should bel out in a zoo with rest of crocodiles

[Donnie Brasco]

Expats opining on Thailand's domestic affairs = soi dogs awakened from their fitful so slumber by dust-men starting morning rounds.

We live here. Some of us for many many years. And whilst we have no vote, we do have opinions on the way things are run in our adopted country which do, even inadvertently impact on our lives, and this forum gives us a platform to do just that. Now. Have you anything to say regards the topic or are you just kvetching?

I refer to the considerable degree of restriction and historical perspective and resultant prejudice shown by a significant number of commentators to this particular thread.

Sorry chaps, this "muckling on to a body of received wisdom", this 3rd class seat many think they've wheedled for themselves on some elegant pedigree bus (all the while posturing . . . . . as if) . . . . . . is tenuous at best.

The faux consensus wafting out of a heap obtuse accusations and cheap shots has little or no place in a serious conversation about what will be happening soon enough around us here.

A pack of one-eyed dogs staring at a 3-D movie howling for popcorn.

And, finally, this is hardly the time or the place for yenta-speak.

Capice !?!?

I guess you call this a constructive message.

To many, I'd hoped indeed that it might function to raise the level of debate.

My message was composed to answer an accusation that I had not contributed to the thread.

In this reply I defined what I thought a real contribution (not just more piled on verbiage) might entail.

In doing this, I had hoped to raise the bar.

But, ya know what they say; there's always somebody who'll complain about that kind of thing.

Even if the complaint takes the form of a guess,

[Pierrefun]

He said that the party had not been officially invited by the Constitution Drafting Committee to present its input for the new charter apart from a telephone call to join the meeting with the CDC.[/size]

He wants a strippergram to make it authentic?[/size]

Apparently the nurse (or French maid) stripper gram made it through in the end.

The CDC had requested the party's cooperation.

Their response:

The Pheu Thai Party is pleased to cooperate and take part

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Pheu-Thai-says-its-ready-to-offer-ideas-for-new-ch-30247832.html

[Pierrefun]

If they send an "official" representative to meet the CDC they would be endorsing the process, hence no show.

1) exactly. And there is no reason for any Thai who is interested in actual democracy to either endorse or participate in this charade.

awwww gee... and now your Pheu Thai directly runs contrary to your point.

Obviously, Plodprasob, with all his grandstanding in the OP, didn't get the Skype message from Dubai.

November 15, 2014

The Pheu Thai Party yesterday advised the chairman of the Constitution Drafting Committee of its willingness to meet with the CDC and provide input on the new charter.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Pheu-Thai-says-its-ready-to-offer-ideas-for-new-ch-30247832.html

[Pierrefun]

This Plodprasob. Is this the "moored boats used to push water down the river as a flood alleviation measure" bloke?

Yes.

Yep, the same guy who thought raging urban flood waters could be controlled by boat propellers.

He's also the same guy who helped to destroy the very limited gene bank for tigers by supporting incestuous breeding at a tiger farm that sold the inbred tigers to China for human consumption.

Yet another of the Pheu Thai brain trust's great ideas:

CHIANG MAI SAFARI: Rare animals on the menu at zoo

Visitors offered daily buffet of lion, tiger, elephant and giraffe meat; conservation groups outraged. Lovers of wild cuisine are in for a treat when Chiang Mai's Night Safari opens next year, Project Director Plodprasop Suraswadi said yesterday. Visitors to the park's Vareekunchorn restaurant will have the option of tucking in to an Exotic Buffet of tiger, lion, elephant and giraffe, for just Bt4,500 a head.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2005/11/17/national/data/national_19180026.html

[Pierrefun]

Now the non-Plodprasob's in Pheu Thai have made their 180 degree U-Turn thinking public.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/776612-pheu-thai-says-its-ready-to-offer-ideas-for-new-charter/

Oh well, Plodprasob can tuck into an endangered animal steak to ease his troubles.

[hugh2121]

Like it or not, the Pheu Thai Party represent the majority of the Thai population. This decision effectively means that the vast majority will have no say whatsoever in the shaping of their country.

[heybruce]

Now the non-Plodprasob's in Pheu Thai have made their 180 degree U-Turn thinking public.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/776612-pheu-thai-says-its-ready-to-offer-ideas-for-new-charter/

Oh well, Plodprasob can tuck into an endangered animal steak to ease his troubles.

Did you read the article?

"The party also urged the CDC to coordinate with the NCPO and the Election Commission to allow party members to meet in order to discuss the charter."

In other words, lift the ban on political gatherings so they can discuss inputs to the charter. The junta can now either relax martial law, which runs contrary to their control instincts, or make it clear that they didn't really want inputs from the party.

[AleG]

Like it or not, the Pheu Thai Party represent the majority of the Thai population. This decision effectively means that the vast majority will have no say whatsoever in the shaping of their country.

PTP represents Thaksin, his clan and PTP members, they use the Thai population to achieve their ends and that's how much, and how far they care about their participation in shaping the future of the country.

[rubl]

Ah, thanks. I missed that one, been a bit busy lately.

So, Pheu Thai only got a phone call to ask them to join, but no formal invitation.

The "pointed out that the party could not send an official representative to meet the CDC but could, at best, offer some general views" in the OP is still a bit confusing then. Its not explicitly stated why they couldn't send an official representative. That may be related to the 'formal' stance of the party on not participating of course.

If they send an "official" representative to meet the CDC they would be endorsing the process, hence no show.

1) exactly. And there is no reason for any Thai who is interested in actual democracy to either endorse or participate in this charade.

2) it is a farce anyway. no one can possibly believe that ideas from the PTP, UDD, or democratically minded groups would get considered honestly

3) the point of reforms is not to create a democratic society, but to re-establish firm elitist control of the government and the society

IMO, this process will be a success for the anti-democratic, traditional elites and their military partners. In the end, it will most likely fall apart.

But in the end could be 10+ years down the road.

"And there is no reason for any Thai who is interested in actual democracy to either endorse or participate in this charade. "

""The Pheu Thai Party is pleased to cooperate and take part in providing views regarding the drafting of the new constitution in order make it most democratic and in order [that the charter] can be a guarantee for justice for the country and people from all sides in accordance to what the party and the international community adhere to and accept," it said in a letter to the committee."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/776612-pheu-thai-says-its-ready-to-offer-ideas-for-new-charter/

Hindsight is fun isn't it?

[rubl]

Now the non-Plodprasob's in Pheu Thai have made their 180 degree U-Turn thinking public.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/776612-pheu-thai-says-its-ready-to-offer-ideas-for-new-charter/

Oh well, Plodprasob can tuck into an endangered animal steak to ease his troubles.

Did you read the article?

"The party also urged the CDC to coordinate with the NCPO and the Election Commission to allow party members to meet in order to discuss the charter."

In other words, lift the ban on political gatherings so they can discuss inputs to the charter. The junta can now either relax martial law, which runs contrary to their control instincts, or make it clear that they didn't really want inputs from the party.

As if the Pheu Thai party needs to discuss much. Don't they regularly go on pilgrimage? Didn't they spent some time in Japan, China, Singapore, India recently?

BTW still a 180 degrees turn from "we will not obstruct by avoiding to participate", or in the memorable words of that great TVF thinker tbthailand

""And there is no reason for any Thai who is interested in actual democracy to either endorse or participate in this charade. ""

[heybruce]

Now the non-Plodprasob's in Pheu Thai have made their 180 degree U-Turn thinking public.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/776612-pheu-thai-says-its-ready-to-offer-ideas-for-new-charter/

Oh well, Plodprasob can tuck into an endangered animal steak to ease his troubles.

Did you read the article?

"The party also urged the CDC to coordinate with the NCPO and the Election Commission to allow party members to meet in order to discuss the charter."

In other words, lift the ban on political gatherings so they can discuss inputs to the charter. The junta can now either relax martial law, which runs contrary to their control instincts, or make it clear that they didn't really want inputs from the party.

As if the Pheu Thai party needs to discuss much. Don't they regularly go on pilgrimage? Didn't they spent some time in Japan, China, Singapore, India recently?

BTW still a 180 degrees turn from "we will not obstruct by avoiding to participate", or in the memorable words of that great TVF thinker tbthailand

""And there is no reason for any Thai who is interested in actual democracy to either endorse or participate in this charade. ""

Actually they went from, in the OP:

"He pointed out that the party could not send an official representative to meet the CDC but could, at best, offer some general views about the charter such as protection of the liberty and right for equal treatment and a true democratic rule.

Mr Plodprasob further said that any official view of the party concerning the charter would have to be discussed in the party or, at least, in the executive committee. He suggested that the martial law be eased to allow political parties to hold meetings."

to:

"But Pheu Thai expressed concerns over the National Council for Peace and Order's ban on political gatherings, saying it affected the party's ability to discuss the issue.

"The Pheu Thai Party is pleased to cooperate and take part in providing views regarding the drafting of the new constitution in order make it most democratic and in order [that the charter] can be a guarantee for justice for the country and people from all sides in accordance to what the party and the international community adhere to and accept," it said in a letter to the committee.

The party also urged the CDC to coordinate with the NCPO and the Election Commission to allow party members to meet in order to discuss the charter." http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Pheu-Thai-says-its-ready-to-offer-ideas-for-new-ch-30247832.html

If you consider that a 180 degree turn then your navigation skills are weak.

Edited November 15, 2014 by heybruce