People want govt to solve problems 'even if it takes over a year'

[ginjag]

So it's safe to assume elections in 2015 is now out of the question. The next poll will state that 57% wants the Junta to stay in power until 2020.

The update was Jan/Feb 2016 2 months delay but who knows--TIT. Maybe the next poll will maybe NOT. Up to the people to vote without influence from outer elements give it a year half of the last lot will not be eligible both sides. we need here honesty form voters and politicians.

[sjaak327]

So it's safe to assume elections in 2015 is now out of the question. The next poll will state that 57% wants the Junta to stay in power until 2020.

The update was Jan/Feb 2016 2 months delay but who knows--TIT. Maybe the next poll will maybe NOT. Up to the people to vote without influence from outer elements give it a year half of the last lot will not be eligible both sides. we need here honesty form voters and politicians.

You mean without influence from outer elements such as this piece of propaganda disguised as a poll. Or are you referring to people criticising the government on TV which resulted in the host of the show being relieved of her duty due to "asking suggestive" questions ?

[jpeg]

So it's safe to assume elections in 2015 is now out of the question. The next poll will state that 57% wants the Junta to stay in power until 2020.

The General has made it pretty clear on many occasions that any so called 'election' will result in a proxy government watched over and closely monitored by said junta. So, plus ca change plus ca meme chose (sorry, can't find the cedilla), aka, 'same same'

[marcusd]

Be nice to know who they actually ask. Must be the relatives of those in power.

[heybruce]

If changes are not made,it will just return to fighting between vested

interests again,that nearly lead to the brink of civil war.

OK the present Govt. is not elected,BUT look at how the last elected

Govt. nearly brought Thailand to its knees,with corruption,infighting,

and wasting a huge amounts of money,if that is the alternative what

we have now is a much better solution,at least there seems to be a

policy to change things,while not perfect,its a start.

The day i dread is when professional politicians return to Parliament,

and the cycle kicks off again,nearly all are only in this game to enrich

themselves,and could not give a toss about the people or the country.

but that seems to be the world over not just in Thailand.

regards Worgeordie We are only pawns in their game.

Right, we don't want professional politicians, military governments work better. After all, when has a military government ever failed a county...well, except for past military governments in Thailand. Oh, and next door in Burma, obviously. I guess Franco held Spain back as well, and there aren't many people in Central and South America who have fond memories of their past military governments.

Come to think of it, when has a military government ever done well?

Recent---FIJI.

Eight years of military rule inn Fiji, and:

"Since the coup Mr Bainimarama’s supporters have written a new constitution, introduced a bewildering electoral system and marshalled the resources of incumbency to secure victory for their new party." http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21618902-coup-plagued-state-goes-polls-back-fold

It's only been two months since the stacked election ended, or perhaps continued, military rule by electing the coup leader as PM. Under the circumstances I think it's a little early to call Fiji a success. Do you think this is the best Thailand can expect?

[fab4]

If changes are not made,it will just return to fighting between vested

interests again,that nearly lead to the brink of civil war.

OK the present Govt. is not elected,BUT look at how the last elected

Govt. nearly brought Thailand to its knees,with corruption,infighting,

and wasting a huge amounts of money,if that is the alternative what

we have now is a much better solution,at least there seems to be a

policy to change things,while not perfect,its a start.

The day i dread is when professional politicians return to Parliament,

and the cycle kicks off again,nearly all are only in this game to enrich

themselves,and could not give a toss about the people or the country.

but that seems to be the world over not just in Thailand.

regards Worgeordie We are only pawns in their game.

Right, we don't want professional politicians, military governments work better. After all, when has a military government ever failed a county...well, except for past military governments in Thailand. Oh, and next door in Burma, obviously. I guess Franco held Spain back as well, and there aren't many people in Central and South America who have fond memories of their past military governments.

Come to think of it, when has a military government ever done well?

Recent---FIJI.

Oh, I can see why you keep on touting Fiji this, Fiji that

As Fiji prepares for its first elections in eight years, the new head of the all-powerful armed forces has admitted that citizens have been beaten and tortured by the military regime, claiming it was necessary to stave off civil disorder.

“I wouldn’t deny that these things happened,” said Brigadier-General Mosese Tikoitoga, hand-picked successor of Frank Bainimarama, who has stepped down from the military to contest the elections. “But a lot of these people were actually trying to instigate violence by creating anti-government movements or militant groups.

“They were talking on the radio and so on … If you let them continue to have a voice, you create a potentially dangerous environment. So it was the lesser of two devils.”

http://www.smh.com.au/world/fiji-military-leader-admits-beatings-torture-20140620-zsg90.html

To make an omelette, have to break some heads eggs, eh, ginjag?...........................................

[ginjag]

If changes are not made,it will just return to fighting between vested

interests again,that nearly lead to the brink of civil war.

OK the present Govt. is not elected,BUT look at how the last elected

Govt. nearly brought Thailand to its knees,with corruption,infighting,

and wasting a huge amounts of money,if that is the alternative what

we have now is a much better solution,at least there seems to be a

policy to change things,while not perfect,its a start.

The day i dread is when professional politicians return to Parliament,

and the cycle kicks off again,nearly all are only in this game to enrich

themselves,and could not give a toss about the people or the country.

but that seems to be the world over not just in Thailand.

regards Worgeordie We are only pawns in their game.

Right, we don't want professional politicians, military governments work better. After all, when has a military government ever failed a county...well, except for past military governments in Thailand. Oh, and next door in Burma, obviously. I guess Franco held Spain back as well, and there aren't many people in Central and South America who have fond memories of their past military governments.

Come to think of it, when has a military government ever done well?

Recent---FIJI.

Eight years of military rule inn Fiji, and:

"Since the coup Mr Bainimarama’s supporters have written a new constitution, introduced a bewildering electoral system and marshalled the resources of incumbency to secure victory for their new party." http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21618902-coup-plagued-state-goes-polls-back-fold

It's only been two months since the stacked election ended, or perhaps continued, military rule by electing the coup leader as PM. Under the circumstances I think it's a little early to call Fiji a success. Do you think this is the best Thailand can expect?

YES. after the diabolical ex PM. it will take years to try to clean this mess up. A friend of mine just arrived with no influence from me or your lot he said A good job someone stepped in to get rid of the last inept regime. So for the last 3 years he had learned what was happening here.

[ginjag]

Recent---FIJI.

Oh, I can see why you keep on touting Fiji this, Fiji that

As Fiji prepares for its first elections in eight years, the new head of the all-powerful armed forces has admitted that citizens have been beaten and tortured by the military regime, claiming it was necessary to stave off civil disorder.

“I wouldn’t deny that these things happened,” said Brigadier-General Mosese Tikoitoga, hand-picked successor of Frank Bainimarama, who has stepped down from the military to contest the elections. “But a lot of these people were actually trying to instigate violence by creating anti-government movements or militant groups.

“They were talking on the radio and so on … If you let them continue to have a voice, you create a potentially dangerous environment. So it was the lesser of two devils.”

http://www.smh.com.au/world/fiji-military-leader-admits-beatings-torture-20140620-zsg90.html

To make an omelette, have to break some heads eggs, eh, ginjag?...........................................

No matter what or who posts it's off to the wick/google shop to pluck out anything that suits your tainted rhetoric. This is your ploy no balanced view, always to suit your style. That is now overcooked and burnt. you will not change.

Would be a change for you to start the day off with an individual post about a topic a fair one.

Near all are contradictory posts -replies slagging all that doesn't suit. I do not have your style mine is simply to go with the flow until is not good for Thailand any more. If it look like I am R slicking sorry that is in your head only.

[ExPratt]

Ginjag

How long did your friend live here for and what did he think was inept ?

So is the price of solving superficial problems , a populist policy if I may say so. worth sacrificing freedom of expression and speech for. ?

What are the Juntas policy on Education , Health and the economy ? Im not really that impressed with clearing street venders and Jet ski operators

[fab4]

Recent---FIJI.

Oh, I can see why you keep on touting Fiji this, Fiji that

As Fiji prepares for its first elections in eight years, the new head of the all-powerful armed forces has admitted that citizens have been beaten and tortured by the military regime, claiming it was necessary to stave off civil disorder.

“I wouldn’t deny that these things happened,” said Brigadier-General Mosese Tikoitoga, hand-picked successor of Frank Bainimarama, who has stepped down from the military to contest the elections. “But a lot of these people were actually trying to instigate violence by creating anti-government movements or militant groups.

“They were talking on the radio and so on … If you let them continue to have a voice, you create a potentially dangerous environment. So it was the lesser of two devils.”

http://www.smh.com.au/world/fiji-military-leader-admits-beatings-torture-20140620-zsg90.html

To make an omelette, have to break some heads eggs, eh, ginjag?...........................................

No matter what or who posts it's off to the wick/google shop to pluck out anything that suits your tainted rhetoric. This is your ploy no balanced view, always to suit your style. That is now overcooked and burnt. you will not change.

Would be a change for you to start the day off with an individual post about a topic a fair one.

Near all are contradictory posts -replies slagging all that doesn't suit. I do not have your style mine is simply to go with the flow until is not good for Thailand any more. If it look like I am R slicking sorry that is in your head only.

Let's face it, ginjag, there's 8 years worth reports about the military regime in Fiji available in the public domain, take your pick - are you denying that the beatings and torture happened? Yet here you are, ignoring the previous 8 years of military rule, relying on 2 months since the elections to declare the military regime in Fiji a shining success and something Thailand should aspire to. Sorry, but I find it hard not to have a tainted view of that kind of attitude. ................................

[bangrak]

I'm not sure at all a (vast?) majority of Thai people actually do like the NCPO and its gallery of generals' portraits, but what I am sure of, is that a vast(!) majority of Thais are desperately wanting positive changes to happen in their lifes, and hold on to the hope this time will be the right time... Don't need any poll to realise that!

[jdinasia]

The nation started off pretty good this week with a few articles actually criticising the PM and junta.

After this load BS and more propaganda maybe they have had an attitude adjustment.

Attitude adjustment the latest buzz word for the junta.

Or perhaps they are reporting and commenting on more than one viewpoint.

[ExPratt]

<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10453;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

The nation started off pretty good this week with a few articles actually criticising the PM and junta.

After this load BS and more propaganda maybe they have had an attitude adjustment.

Attitude adjustment the latest buzz word for the junta.

Or perhaps they are reporting and commenting on more than one viewpoint.

There was a headline in English language today stating the press council or whatever they are called here are going to request the removal of the media gagging order

[bangrak]

Ginjag

How long did your friend live here for and what did he think was inept ?

So is the price of solving superficial problems , a populist policy if I may say so. worth sacrificing freedom of expression and speech for. ?

What are the Juntas policy on Education , Health and the economy ? Im not really that impressed with clearing street venders and Jet ski operators

ExPratt

How can you 'sacrifice' something that has not been born yet (is this a Maya thing?), you might tell the same as well about 'democracy'? And tell me when, under which government ever here, education and health has truly been a matter of worries... As for the economy, yes, indeed Thaksin, problem was, and still is, his vision of the country's economy has a 'shady' part where the moneys enter his left pocket and a lot less comes out of the right one...

[ginjag]

Ginjag

How long did your friend live here for and what did he think was inept ?

So is the price of solving superficial problems , a populist policy if I may say so. worth sacrificing freedom of expression and speech for. ?

What are the Juntas policy on Education , Health and the economy ? Im not really that impressed with clearing street venders and Jet ski operators

Parrot likes this and he is one with so many others think this is the main thing the PM ought to do-street ven and jet ski.

Your second line is too dramatic OTT not too much on that score--if you look at the Shins media control.

Education -Thailand is the Highest per pop spending on education or near that in the world. For what--nothing to show.

Health remains to be seen as soon as the findings on some management are surfaced.

[ExPratt]

<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10453;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

Ginjag

How long did your friend live here for and what did he think was inept ?

So is the price of solving superficial problems , a populist policy if I may say so. worth sacrificing freedom of expression and speech for. ?

What are the Juntas policy on Education , Health and the economy ? Im not really that impressed with clearing street venders and Jet ski operators

ExPratt

How can you 'sacrifice' something that has not been born yet (is this a Maya thing?), you might tell the same as well about 'democracy'? And tell me when, under which government ever here, education and health has truly been a matter of worries... As for the economy, yes, indeed Thaksin, problem was, and still is, his vision of the country's economy has a 'shady' part where the moneys enter his left pocket and a lot less comes out of the right one...

Agreed , the Health , education and economy are problems as old as Thailand, but they are real problems that ordinary Thais face daily.

Something I find strange and I mean nothing personal to anyone, yourself, Ginjag. But I cannot see how people who come from countries with freedom of speech and democracy can advocate a Dictatorship in another country. I'm sure you have the best intentions of the the people or in some cases your own kids futures in mind, but a military coup and has never worked without being turfed out by counter coup or oppressing the country for years

Edited November 16, 2014 by ExPratt

[awayego]

Keep hearing soft time lines.... Is that a year from now? Or a year from when the junta took over?

It's as if they are stalling, preserving their power position for some unforeseen event.

Maybe they are just waiting for some 'inevitable' event rather than some "unforeseen event"?

[bangrak]

<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10453;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

Ginjag

How long did your friend live here for and what did he think was inept ?

So is the price of solving superficial problems , a populist policy if I may say so. worth sacrificing freedom of expression and speech for. ?

What are the Juntas policy on Education , Health and the economy ? Im not really that impressed with clearing street venders and Jet ski operators

ExPratt

How can you 'sacrifice' something that has not been born yet (is this a Maya thing?), you might tell the same as well about 'democracy'? And tell me when, under which government ever here, education and health has truly been a matter of worries... As for the economy, yes, indeed Thaksin, problem was, and still is, his vision of the country's economy has a 'shady' part where the moneys enter his left pocket and a lot less comes out of the right one...

Agreed , the Health , education and economy are problems as old as Thailand, but they are real problems that ordinary Thais face daily.

Something I find strange and I mean nothing personal to anyone, yourself, Ginjag. But I cannot see how people who come from countries with freedom of speech and democracy can advocate a Dictatorship in another country. I'm sure you have the best intentions of the the people or in some cases your own kids futures in mind, but a military coup and has never worked without being turfed out by counter coup or oppressing the country for years

It is that History, the knowledge of our own past, has taught us how much injustice there was in our countries, and how long and hard the fight of our forebears was to impose the values of democracy, to inspire us, the present holders of that invaluable work, to go on working to maintain and ameliorate it, and teach the next generations about the necessity to protect those values in the future, especially in hard, materialistic, greedy, selfish times as today! And it is that knowledge and what we are daily learning of this country, that makes, some of, us aware Thailand is, alas, still not yet ready for 'democracy', that many, most, things need to be changed, reformed, in a most radical way, I'm afraid, while, as sister Anna, we see nothing (good) coming, no 'saviour(s)' in sight from our, privileged, tower. Law-and-Order must come, hard and tough, Justice must come, equal and rigid, Education must come, wide and critical, then, and only then, 'democracy' could have a chance to earth and made to grow! Now is (should be...) 'purgatory' time, 'paradise' is not given, it is to be earned...

[jacky54]

Keep hearing soft time lines.... Is that a year from now? Or a year from when the junta took over?

It's as if they are stalling, preserving their power position for some unforeseen event.

That is the whole point of this struggle over the past few years and the coup- the unforeseen event, but the only thing unforeseen is the date

[bangrak]

Coming to a forum near you soon, a DJJamie post extolling the virtues of the junta quoting the very latest poll results from those hap,hap,happy pollsters, the Association of Thai Researchers in Community Happiness!................................

Reminds of the 'happy days' of the 'Thaksin regime', isn't it? Would it be true that History is not repeating itself, just stuttering (no, not you, parrot!)? The old principle of 'alternance', the pendulum of the clock? I hope not, there has been enough 'Thaksins' (generic,applies for all 'parties'), enough 'Generals', too much, too many, but would it, alas, be true too that a nation gets the Government it deserves? As I don't see any vast(!) majority of true(!) Thais coming up for themselves, for their family, for their children, in a, wide, popular, movement... As long as 'the people' don't realise their strength, and don't use it to benefit themselves... But isn't it exactly that that all the 'Thaksins', 'Generals' and other dictators have always been avoiding, at all cost?

[ratcatcher]

Keep hearing soft time lines.... Is that a year from now? Or a year from when the junta took over?

It's as if they are stalling, preserving their power position for some unforeseen event.

Initially it was for next November, but was put back 2 months as more DUNG had arrived on the PMs doorstep to clean up--if you get my drift.?

DUNG has never been on the PM's doorstep, but he can be seen here keeping Obama and Prayuth apart.

[Alwyn]

what, exactly, is the "roadmap"? Has the Junta ever actually described what it is? or is it, "clean out corruption"? Because that's not a road map, that's a goal.

[Chris Lawrence]

I think Nattaya Wawweerakhup was finding a different level of concern by people in Thailand? She had been interviewing activists in the southern province of Songkhla for her “Voices of the People That Must Be Heard Before the Reform,” programme before being pulled off air.

So their may be two teirs too opinion; one in Bangkok and one in the rest of the country?

[bangrak]

I think Nattaya Wawweerakhup was finding a different level of concern by people in Thailand? She had been interviewing activists in the southern province of Songkhla for her “Voices of the People That Must Be Heard Before the Reform,” programme before being pulled off air.

So their may be two teirs too opinion; one in Bangkok and one in the rest of the country?

Shins' 'red' territories in N. + E. AGAINST the rest of the country might be more in line with the truth, but as it goes against 'your''opinion' I guess you don't care about historical truth or facts... But this could change, when 'the people' in N. + E. would become ALLOWED TO an opinion of their own, even when not agreeing with 'the little red book' by Dr Thaksin...

[Kitsune]

The real question is : where is the money going?

With 2.3% growth in 2013, we should have had hospitals galore, BTS MRT extensions, roads, buses, real properly trained police, better school systems, etc.

Where is the money going?

[bangrak]

what, exactly, is the "roadmap"? Has the Junta ever actually described what it is? or is it, "clean out corruption"? Because that's not a road map, that's a goal.

I consider it very wise for 'the Junta' (to quote you) not to have given the Thais any 'roadmap', considering how well the Thais can read a roadmap, it would for sure have lead to a deadend! Let's just hope that, as a Thai driver would, 'the Junta' (to quote you) has any clear idea of where it wants to go to, and, as a Thai driver, goes on its 'experience' and 'gutt feeling' to reach that point, in the end, as it takes quite some more time to reach your destination, when you don't know the 'right' road and are too proud to ask for advice, like a Thai driver...

[heybruce]

Ginjag

How long did your friend live here for and what did he think was inept ?

So is the price of solving superficial problems , a populist policy if I may say so. worth sacrificing freedom of expression and speech for. ?

What are the Juntas policy on Education , Health and the economy ? Im not really that impressed with clearing street venders and Jet ski operators

ExPratt

How can you 'sacrifice' something that has not been born yet (is this a Maya thing?), you might tell the same as well about 'democracy'? And tell me when, under which government ever here, education and health has truly been a matter of worries... As for the economy, yes, indeed Thaksin, problem was, and still is, his vision of the country's economy has a 'shady' part where the moneys enter his left pocket and a lot less comes out of the right one...

You really should work on sentence structure bangrak, but I gather you think there was a shady element to Thailand's economy under Thaksin. Of course there was, there has always been a shady element in Thailand's economy under all governments, including the military governments. I don't think having more of the same justifies the coup.

[bangrak]

The real question is : where is the money going?

With 2.3% growth in 2013, we should have had hospitals galore, BTS MRT extensions, roads, buses, real properly trained police, better school systems, etc.

Where is the money going?

'Where is the money going?' is a wrong question, 'Where is the money gone?' is IMO the right one to ask. But, as you know, according to the 'principles' of Thai 'education', it is considered very rude to ask questions to any 'authority' (anyone 'above' you), nothing will happen about my question, either... Although here the 'authorities' for sure know, but will keep the answer to themselves, together with the money it was about, I guess...

[heybruce]

Right, we don't want professional politicians, military governments work better. After all, when has a military government ever failed a county...well, except for past military governments in Thailand. Oh, and next door in Burma, obviously. I guess Franco held Spain back as well, and there aren't many people in Central and South America who have fond memories of their past military governments.

Come to think of it, when has a military government ever done well?

Recent---FIJI.

Eight years of military rule in Fiji, and:

"Since the coup Mr Bainimarama’s supporters have written a new constitution, introduced a bewildering electoral system and marshalled the resources of incumbency to secure victory for their new party." http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21618902-coup-plagued-state-goes-polls-back-fold

It's only been two months since the stacked election ended, or perhaps continued, military rule by electing the coup leader as PM. Under the circumstances I think it's a little early to call Fiji a success. Do you think this is the best Thailand can expect?

YES. after the diabolical ex PM. it will take years to try to clean this mess up. A friend of mine just arrived with no influence from me or your lot he said A good job someone stepped in to get rid of the last inept regime. So for the last 3 years he had learned what was happening here.

Just to be clear, and resolve your earlier post, are you now abandoning Fiji as an example of a successful military government? Do you have an alternate example?

The last government was inept, one of many inept governments in Thailand's history. I've never argued otherwise. However they tried to hold elections and give the Thai people the option of electing another government, which is how inept governments should be dealt with. Furthermore, nobody has given me any reason to think that this military government will make things better in Thailand. You certainly haven't, and neither has Prayuth.

[Alwyn]

what, exactly, is the "roadmap"? Has the Junta ever actually described what it is? or is it, "clean out corruption"? Because that's not a road map, that's a goal.

I consider it very wise for 'the Junta' (to quote you) not to have given the Thais any 'roadmap', considering how well the Thais can read a roadmap, it would for sure have lead to a deadend! Let's just hope that, as a Thai driver would, 'the Junta' (to quote you) has any clear idea of where it wants to go to, and, as a Thai driver, goes on its 'experience' and 'gutt feeling' to reach that point, in the end, as it takes quite some more time to reach your destination, when you don't know the 'right' road and are too proud to ask for advice, like a Thai driver...

You hit the nail square on the head. A taxi driver goes on experience and gut feeling to reach their destination. The Junta/government has totally NO experience in politics/government/media/public relations as was highlighted yesterday by a bunch of generals demanding the firing of a news anchor.