Farang double pricing

[simon43]

Here's my moan about the double-pricing standards of some tourist attractions.

I first encountered this practice at Safari World, just outside BKK.  Thai entry fee is 300 baht, but 500 baht for farangs.  Needless to say, my Thai girlfriend was VERY embaressed and I was annoyed, but paid up to enjoy the attractions.

During Sonkran, I went down to Hatyai to see my girlfriends family, and we went to see Ton Nga Chang waterfall. Thai entry fee was 20 baht, but for farang it was... 200 baht.  This time I refused to pay on principal and our day was marred by this whole event.

A couple of comments:

Is the Ton Nga Chang price difference a record?  I'd love to see a top-ten list of the worst cases of farang-charging!

What Thai people don't seem to understand is that this very direct demand for higher payment by farangs is seen to be (at least by me),the height of rudeness! Do they assume that every foreigner is rich?

In fact, I would be very willing to pay a higher price if the request for payment was put in a more tactful manner.  Why not charge the same price for all visitors, but request that 'overseas tourists please try to give some more money to help us maintain this tourist attraction etc'.  If such a request was made to me then I would give my money gladly, as opposed to the ill-feeling that their direct approach generates.

... Or am I just being a miserable sod who is tight with his money?!

[Thetyim]

I agree with you completely, it is not the money it is the principle that annoys me. Unfortunately  I think there is little chance of any change as two tier pricing is condoned by the government.

All national parks and forestry sites are now 20 for thais and 200 for foreigners but this is not the record.

Eight years ago a friend of mine went to a Photographic Exhibition in Bkk. Admission was 200 for thais and 2000 for foreigners.

My favourite beach is Navakon, Prachuab but it is run by the Forestry who now demand 200 for me to walk on the sand.

I now go elsewhere and suggest we all avoid these places in the hope that their policy will change.  But don't hold your breath.

[bkkgs]

If you want to find a record for double pricing by baht, just have a thai call and make a reservation at a thai managed 4 or 5 star hotel. then campare their rate with the farang rate. percentage wise it doesn't add up to the 10-1 at national parks, but i know one chain (no name mentioned, but there is one in siam square, another on soi 33) where the thai rate is 1200 per night, farang anywhere from 2200 - 3500. and if a thai makes the reservation but shows up with a farang mate, forget it, the rate goes up. a former student of mine is a reservationist at one of these hotels, thats where this info comes from. other area hotels supposedly have the same policy.

i have had some success at parks by being polite, smiling and showing my tax card and work id. it worked last week at the palace in cha-am. i was let in for 20 baht instead of 90. when that doesnt work i smile and say thanks and leave, telling my thai friends i'll wait outside. then its up to them to decide what to do. as many people have pointed out, it seems most thais are embarrassed by this policy, so its a little surprising its still in effect.

[simon43]

Unfortunately I'm sure our boycotting of these places will have little effect, since the overseas tour groups will all pay this higher rate and not argue about it (you don't travel halfway round the world to visit some famous site and then refuse to go in because you are charged a few pounds more...)

But maybe a little (embarressing) publicity might persuade them to adopt a more tactful attitude!  I'm notorious for upsetting people (not sure why!!). How about running a top-ten worst offender list at www.thairipoff.com or www.dontberude.com (these domains are both available...)

...Or maybe this will get my business visa revoked!!

In any case, I do think a little education is needed here to get the message across that this practice is both embarressing to Thai nationals and downright rude to foreign tourists or local farangs!

[Thetyim]

I tried my hand at doing a bit of English teaching a couple of years ago, my charges were 50baht hour for falangs and 100baht hour for Thais.

Didn't help me at all but BOY Oh BOY,  it made me fell good !!

[Rinrada]

I knew an english guy (taxidriver) who happily picks up Thais/ familys and "rips"them off for over £100 on the journey from Heathrow Airport to their hotels. (normal price then £30-40)

He is i must admit in his own little private world but recons thats how he gets his own back for being done for something similar  on holiday once and since they (the Thais) are going to central London hotels they can afford it.

When they complain or even comment its "sorry mate no speekee "

As i said in his own little world but....

[bkkgs]

Ho hum. Another trip to a waterfall with a Thai family. At the entrance they want 10 baht for kids, 20 for adults and 200 for me, the farang. No big deal, I figured that was coming, but the Thais were shocked and humiliated. We turned around and left. The guy at the gate thought the whole thing was hilarious until I took his picture ( a waste of film, but i figured it would give him something to think about). Anyway, later that day one of the Thai kids asked "why dont they like farangs? why dont they want them to see our park?" It hit me- this pricing thing isnt about getting extra money, its about keeping farangs out. Think about it- if i have a business- a movie theatre - with a sign that says "westerners 100 baht , japanese 2000 baht"- what does that mean? it means i don't want to let in japanese.

With the drop in tourism it used to amaze me that this policy continued- but now it all makes sense. The message from Thais to farangs is: "We don't want you". What just might happen is after this SARS scare is over, people will have found other places in the world to visit and wont be back.

[singa-traz]

Double pricing ... hmmm, there is a post about it every other day on soc.culture.thai ... anyway ...

Let's see the other side of the coin:

Bangkok:

You are Thai, you want to rent an appartment, you have the money ... but the owner/agent tell you that they DO NOT want to rent to Thai People ! ... in your own country ...

Koh Tao:

Looking for a Bangalow with my Thai Friends ... and my Thai Friends to be quoted a higher price ! Explanation given to us ... Thai can packed up to 10 peoples per Bangalow, and they spend too much time under the shower !

So, if you have witnessed this type of Horror stories ... where Farangs were given a prefered treatment ... let this forum knows !

... and by the way, List Price for Farang and Thai is the same ..., but Thai just get 90% discount, as they are more likely to come back sooner than the Farang Tourist !  :laugh:

[pschef]

Funny mixed views in this topic, I was mad when going to water fall gereson near Lampang. I went with all Thai friends, as you say they charged 20 baht for Thai and 200 baht for myself. Needless to say I wont be back, on the other hand. Hotels, if I show a business card. I work in Thailand, always get much better rates. Hotels want us but national parks dont.  :laugh:

[simon43]

Does this double-pricing apply to bar-girls??

[Boo]

Went to BKK last October with me, b/f, 2 female farang freinds & thai male freind for a bit of shopping & to wait for thai mates g/f to come back from UK & couldn't stay in KaoSan Road Guesthouses because they don't accept Thai's! We stayed behind near the temple for a better price & nicer rooms so no probs there. Then we met with a few Thai freinds, who are from wealthy families & have all lived & studied overseas & tried to get into SuzyQ's (named & shamed) who told us that Thais had to pay 300baht entrance fee. We declined & spent a considerable amount of cash at another place, who were happy to take thai baht from anyone.

It's amazing that this country allows this sort of thing to go on, can you imagine being English & getting refused a room in London because you are English!!!! Screwy

[pschef]

This is the first time I hear that Thais are not allowed in certain places, that means a farrang cant take his wife or g/f into such establishments ???

[Brian]

can you imagine being English & getting refused a room in London because you are English!!!! Screwy

Boo, not only would this be unimaginable in the "west", but discrimination of anybody based on race would land you in court. (definately in Aus anyway, and I imagine that most other westernised countries are the same).

But here in Thailand, it's actually government policy.

[MaiChai]

If you tell the National Park folks you are not a tourist, you should get the Thai rate. I normally turn up at National Parks in my pickup; they then assume I am not a tourist, and rarely do they try and charge me the tourist rate.

Double charging is now starting to happen in the sticks. I have live in my village in Thailand 8 years, and recently, local shops have started to over charge. Basically, we are now getting a lot of farangs living around my area, and the local shopkeepers have cottoned on to over charging. The fact that they are doing it is evidence that they are getting away with it (dumb farangs don't know the real price, so we can charge them double).

[pschef]

Thats very bad news Maichai, I hope they dont start that with me

[singa-traz]

If your local shopkeepers start to overcharge you ... you might ask them where is the nearest Tesco Lotus (or Carrefour if there is one) ... because it's the same price for everybody ... and probably cheaper too ... but, of course, you do prefer the convenience of his store ...  ::

[pschef]

No I most always do my big shopping once a month, like you say at lotus or any of the bigger supermarkets in Chiang mai or Chiang Rai. I do however by local produce, fresh meat & veg. I get all my booze locally, I refer to Beer etc. Again we go back to the variance in price for that, but my guy is pretty good. I would say be careful about local restaurants, Karokes etc, they sometimes hike the prices. ??? just be careful :cool:

[Thetyim]

When I go out for the evening I always  check each bill very carefully.  Some resturants and Karokes will try and cheat .

I then refuse to pay any item that I do not agree with.

If they refuse to adjust or remove the offending item then I refuse to pay.

They always back down.  I then explain to the owner why I and all my friends will not  be coming to his establishment again.

[Roger13]

Two Tier Pricing is of course not restricted to Thailand.

I have experienced it in other countries.

I have also witnessed Discrimination (refusal of Entry) against Locals at Expensive Resorts in Sri Lanka & Maldives

But the Taj Mahal must win the prize Percentage wise

Indians Rs 20 (free on Fridays) Foreigners Rs 960...

Cameras seem to be bigger Victims in India:

eg: A Temple might charge:

Indians Rs 5 - Foreigners Rs 20

Still Camera Rs 50

Video Camera Rs 500  !!!!

However in Thailand my worst experiece is:

Samut Prakan Crocodile Farm & Zoo:

Thai Nationals - Bht50

All Foreigners - Bht300

Roger

[Martin]

I first ran across double pricing in Nepal. It was their domestic airline. The air fare from Tumlingltar to Kathmandu, on a Twin Otter, was three times more for me than for my Nepali porter. But when I analyzed the situation, I realised:

 (1) My fare was very reasonable, considering the difficult economics of running an air service in their circumstances. In fact, it was very reasonable compared to European fares for that sort of a distance.

 (2)  To transport Nepali passengers at the price set for my porter, the airline must be getting a big subsidy from the Government in order to help the country's business people get around and so bring the country 'forward'.

So I didn't mind. In fact I am embarrassed whenever I visit a poor country and am only charged a rate that clearly means that the facility is being subsidised by the taxpayers (which includes the poorest people, because they, too, pay VAT).

In Thailand, say at the Grand Palace or at any of the National Parks, I am happy to pay the modest foreigner entrance fee,  and I applaud the Thai Government for paying out lots of money to maintain these facilities so that Thais can visit at a  cost that is affordable to them. When I write 'modest', I mean very low compared to going to equivalent attractions (such as York Minster or Buckingham Palace) in England.

But when a Thai (often Chinese-Thai ) shopkeeper ups the price just because I'm a farang, my emotions are very different. But I keep smiling. I can do that because my Thai wife tears them off a strip!!. Her argument is that they (greedy middle class leeches) spoil Thailand's image and then the farangs don't come AND THIS IS BAD FOR ALL  THE POOR THAIS who are trying to scratch a living. She really, really makes them "shy".

I think that a good PR move by the Government would be to post entrance fees at the unsubsidised rate, but with a note that Thai citizens can claim a 90% discount by showing their Thai i.d.. I also think that I made a good mve by marrying the wife that I did!

[TizMe]

so that Thais can visit at a  cost that is affordable to them

This assumes that all Thais are poor and all farlangs are rich, which obviously is not always the case. So why do I need to subsidise the cost to a wealthy Thai family?

If I go to a restaurant, I don't expect to have to pay more for my meal than the Thai family at the next table, so why should anybody think that it should be any different for admission charges?

[Brian]

From today's bangkok post.

And some of us are still happy to pay more than them...

Thailand still has 20,000 millionaires

Some 20,000 people in Thailand had personal wealth of more than US$1 million at the end of 2002, on par with the previous year, according to a study published by Cap Gemini Ernst and Young and Merrill Lynch.

Double pricing is not discrimination based on wealth. It is discrimination based on race. Something that we farangs wouldn't (shouldn't) tolerate in our own countries. So why do some of you condone it here?

[singa-traz]

From The National Statistical Office in Thailand:

- http://www.nso.go.th/eng/stat/socio/soctab1.htm

Average Monthly Income of Household (in Baht for 2001) was: 12,185 THB

... but Double Pricing is really unfair ...

Most Farangs earn 3,4,5 ... 10 times more (at least 90% of the respondant to our cost of living survey, are spending at least twice this amount ...) ... but Double Pricing is really unfair ...

so based on the statistics, how do the average Thai spend this:

- 33% on Food: 4,000 per month ...

- 22% on Housing : 2,400 per month

- 15% on Transport: 1800 per month

- ...

So, now look at your monthly expenditure, and maybe you will start to understand why Thai people, in general, think that Farangs are rich ...

I agree, Double Pricing is unfair ... but if you really can't accept it, you still have a choose... Don't Pay !

[Roger13]

[quote name=TizMe' date='June 13 2003,17:59

If I go to a restaurant, I don't expect to have to pay more for my meal than the Thai family at the next table, so why should anybody think that it should be any different for admission charges?[/quote]

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Hi TizMe

Can we be sure that Double Pricing does not exist in Restaurants here?

I know that it exists in another ASEAN country. There my local friends

always ask for the "Local (price)" Menu - saying that they will be paying the bill and not me!

Does anyone know if Double Pricing in restaurants happens

iin Thailand? - we already know is exists for Hotel Room Rates.

Roger

[MaiChai]

To put the boot on the other foot...We were staying in a hotel in Chumpon and the hotel staff did not remember our faces over two days. My wife goes in on her own and asks for a room, how much. She gets charged 700 baht. I go in on my own, and she says 300 baht. Farangs are price conscious and will go elsewhere for a cheaper price, so I got the cheapest price. Thais like to tell all their friends how much something cost and they don't go on holiday for very long, so they are easier to rip off. There are a lot of fancy resorts catering for rich Thais from Bangkok which IMHO charge over the odds for something that isn't that great.

[wolf5370]

A few years back, I was booked into a hotel in BKK - I usually stay at Convenience Park (Bangna), but this was before it had opened, or at a friends place, but too many with me this time. I had three rooms. One for me, one for another farang, and one for a family of Thai's who I was dragging along for the ride. The hotel had told my Thai friends that breakfast was included - it was they that booked this hotel in the first place. In the morning we all went to the breakfast room which was empty except for us - about 6 in all. The breakfast grub was all laid out in bwols and the like, both Western and Thai. As we went along to get some fruit juices from a counter after putting our loaded plates on the dining table, the restaurant manager (a middle aged Thai women) came over and said the farangs would have to pay (can't remember how much, I think 250Bht each); the free breakfast was for Thai's only. Not knowing Thai too well at the time, I had one of my friends tell her that I was paying for their rooms, so this did not make sense. She was adamant. We all left then and there and booked out the hotel, leaving the food untouched and unpaid for on our plates. My Thai firends have never booked that hotel again - when I visit them in BKK or their relations come over from the UK or Finland, they always now stay at the Convenient Park Hotel in Bangna - it treats all the same. In fact I am now a member of their club - which means I get a deal on their rooms.

The curious thing is, out of 6 of us, there were two farangs. for the sake of 500 baht breakfast, they lost three room bookings at full price! And a lot of possible future bookings going forward too.