looking at houses, they all have cracks in the walls. Why?

[Awk]

I've been looking at some houses for sale here in Chiang Mai during the last few months, most of them less than five years old, and one or two new and never lived in. One thing that has puzzled me is that all the houses have several cracks in the walls. These cracks mostly range from 50cm to a metre, going in diagonal lines. I'm not sure how to gauge the depth of the cracks, but they do not look purely superficial to me.

From what I can gather, this may be caused by the ground not having settled firmly before the foundation was laid, or just bad work?

I wouldn't think this was expected, but all the houses I've looked at so far have had them. I thus wonder if this this a normal and mostly cosmetic issue here in Thailand, or as I suspect, a bad sign, and something a home of decent quality should not have?

For reference, the house/land combinations I've been looking at have been in the 3-5M Baht range, which I guess is around midrange here in Chiang Mai.

[draftvader]

Almost certainly settling on top of poorly compounded foundations. Have you seen the pavements and roads here?

[alfieconn]

Mines the same, I would think that it is just the render drying out, not dissimilar to plaster drying out in the UK ! incidently I had a pest control guy round the other day and he commented on it and said his house in Pattaya was exactly the same.

To be fair, after the recent earthquake tremors in Cm I'm surprised the cracks aren't a lot worse !

Edited November 17, 2014 by alfieconn

[Tywais]

A post in all CAPS has been removed as it is considered shouting and against forum netiquette.

[alfieconn]

Almost certainly settling on top of poorly compounded foundations. Have you seen the pavements and roads here?

Can you please explain a bit clearer what you mean by this statement.

[draftvader]

Almost certainly settling on top of poorly compounded foundations. Have you seen the pavements and roads here?

Can you please explain a bit clearer what you mean by this statement.

During ground works if the ground is not compacted and/or doesn't have a decent ground water course then the weight of the building and/or the ground washing away will make the building settle. If you look at the pavements and roads here they are just placed on the surface or, at best, sand. This is why they disintegrate so quickly. Yes, it's cheaper in the beginning but the "whole life cost" is much more expensive.

[noahvail]

Almost certainly settling on top of poorly compounded foundations. Have you seen the pavements and roads here?

Can you please explain a bit clearer what you mean by this statement.

During ground works if the ground is not compacted and/or doesn't have a decent ground water course then the weight of the building and/or the ground washing away will make the building settle. If you look at the pavements and roads here they are just placed on the surface or, at best, sand. This is why they disintegrate so quickly. Yes, it's cheaper in the beginning but the "whole life cost" is much more expensive.

Agreed. After 6 years here, I have yet to see a vibrating compactor. Not even in the building supply shops.

[steve187]

wacker plates ( vibrating compactors) are available in hardware house and other well known places.

They also use vibrating rollers in Thailand

but as others have said cracks are more than likely just the render drying out too quick

Edited November 17, 2014 by steve187

[Anthony5]

wacker plates ( vibrating compactors) are available in hardware house and other well known places.

They also use vibrating rollers in Thailand

but as others have said cracks are more than likely just the render drying out too quick

W-con and other rental companies rent out compactors, but the reason that houses have cracks is because a lot of concrete and steel is used, which have different rates of expansion. Every building settles.

Houses in the west also crack. I recently sold my apartment in Europe which had some recurring cracks in the ceiling and walls, and I was told by experts this normal, and actually nobody bothers about which turned out to be true when buyers showed up.

Of course there are cracks and cracks. A crack less than 3mm wide is considered a hairline crack, and nothing to worry about. However wider cracks or horizontal cracks need inspection as it may point to some problems with the foundations.

[cooked]

Cracks are nothing to worry about. I learnt that rendering should be done away from the sun, which is a bit difficult in Thailand, though I guess that there are now modern additives (?plastifiers) that would minimise crack formation. Diagonal cracking is most likely caused by foundation settlement and can go on for years. The house will not fall down because of a few cracks here and there, the walls are just the bits that they build as an afterthought between the supporting columns to keep the rats out.

[boonchu]

I have found that most of the cracking is only to the depth of the render and this is mostly caused by the render drying too quickly. One way too minimise this type of cracking is too render both sides (inside and out side) at the same time. The larger and wider cracks are usually due to some movement in the foundation piles.

[manarak]

Deep piledriving and solid foundations that minimize cracks are expensive.

Considering most houses are built using steel frames, the cracks are not a problem for the house's stability if they are kept impervious.

[Suradit69]

wacker plates ( vibrating compactors) are available in hardware house and other well known places.

They also use vibrating rollers in Thailand

but as others have said cracks are more than likely just the render drying out too quick

Certainly they've been used on (some?) roads in Pattaya. In my condo building there are some hairline cracks, but they seem fairly superficial, although a Thai friend who bought a small house east of Sukhumvit has had more serious issues because of poor drainage in the entire area that becomes quite evident in heavy rains. The city has accepted responsibility for the drainage issues, but claims it has no money to correct the problem.

Definitely worth considering whether your prospective home sits "down stream" when the streets and surrounding area become flooded.

[Jerry Cornelius]

Almost certainly settling on top of poorly compounded foundations. Have you seen the pavements and roads here?

Can you please explain a bit clearer what you mean by this statement.

During ground works if the ground is not compacted and/or doesn't have a decent ground water course then the weight of the building and/or the ground washing away will make the building settle. If you look at the pavements and roads here they are just placed on the surface or, at best, sand. This is why they disintegrate so quickly. Yes, it's cheaper in the beginning but the "whole life cost" is much more expensive.

Agreed. After 6 years here, I have yet to see a vibrating compactor. Not even in the building supply shops.

Global sell them. Have also seen them for sale at building suppliers. Never seen one used here though.

Jerry

[Bakeman]

Many kitchens seem to be an afterthought also. They all seem to be falling away from the actual house as do drive ways.

[trogers]

Diagonal cracks of filled in walls in framed structures usually indicate movements between beams and columns. Due to differential settlement of the foundation in most cases, or in earthquakes.

Question is, have such structural movements settled? If not, cracking would reoccur even after repairs.

Cracks in structural members like beams, columns and floor slabs would raise concerns on building collapse.

Edited November 17, 2014 by trogers

[draftvader]

Many kitchens seem to be an afterthought also. They all seem to be falling away from the actual house as do drive ways.

That's easier to explain. Our house is a good example. It is obvious that the rear portion of our house (kitchen, 3rd bathroom and utility/maids room) was originally exterior. During the renovations 5 years ago when the house underwent an extreme modification (they didn't scrimp, good money spent) and they obviously bought it all inside. Interestingly all the cracks that are starting to appear are in this position and fit perfectly with it falling away from the main house. I'm not sure it will cause any issues in the next 10 years but will probably cause them to have to pay up again in the future.

An interesting aside to this is another lack of foresight. Our landlady obviously spent good money on this property and did a LOT of good ground-working. This is all well and fine but a quick look at the neighbours shows that our property is clearing 50-100cm higher than all 5 of them (including diagonal rear neighbours). This means that the property is sitting on top of groundwork that is being held in place by 3" block walls. I strongly doubt that the foundations of these walls are sufficiently deep or that there are steel rods running through the blocks to reinforce. In short the house will push down on the groundwork and it, as things do, will look for the path of least resistance which will be these walls.

I really hope that I am not going to be here in 10 years but I reckon we'll start to see the walls collapsing outwards around then. The effect on the house will be that the main structure will probably be good (it is, effectively, a steel cage) but everything added onto that structure (porch, carport, rear section including kitchen, 3rd bathroom and utility room) will move independently and cause damage to themselves and the exterior of the property.

They've got to hope that any work done on neighbouring properties includes them matching the ground level to ours.

[worgeordie]

Most of the cracks you see in walls are the cement rendering drying out,

the correct way would to use fiber in the mix,but would add a lot of cost

to the build,larger cracks due to settling ,also when you have heavy rains

the ground swells,and in dry season it shrinks causing movement resulting

in larger cracks.

I would also say they are not building the new houses as well as they did

say 20 years ago,all about costs i suppose.

regards Worgeordie

[alfieconn]

Almost certainly settling on top of poorly compounded foundations. Have you seen the pavements and roads here?

Can you please explain a bit clearer what you mean by this statement.

During ground works if the ground is not compacted and/or doesn't have a decent ground water course then the weight of the building and/or the ground washing away will make the building settle. If you look at the pavements and roads here they are just placed on the surface or, at best, sand. This is why they disintegrate so quickly. Yes, it's cheaper in the beginning but the "whole life cost" is much more expensive.

Sorry but I'm not a builder so this might be a stupid question, but when you say "the ground is not compacted" do you mean the ground that the pads sit on ?

[SheungWan]

Just watch the appalling slap-dash way a new small to medium-sized development goes up and you won't be surprised. I can see one where not only are there cracks, but the concrete in places is going mouldy and some parts of the cladding have come off. Oh, maybe 2 years after completion. After viewing so many I wouldn't recommend buying any not only in advance of completion but within 2 years of completion. The one exception IMHO is the very high stuff which appear to employ the proper qualified engineers etc. I must say I am almost amused at some of the excuses waved around above.

[cooked]

The only way to stop or at least even out, foundation settlement is to construct a raft foundation (or deep piling of course, which is expensive). I bunged in 20 cm of reinforced concrete on top of the well compacted area in front of our house, 3 metres by 8, and let it settle for a year (although I doubt it moved much at all). Another reason for waiting was lack of money! It hasn't moved since construction and wont move noticeably in the future.'

[draftvader]

Almost certainly settling on top of poorly compounded foundations. Have you seen the pavements and roads here?

Can you please explain a bit clearer what you mean by this statement.

During ground works if the ground is not compacted and/or doesn't have a decent ground water course then the weight of the building and/or the ground washing away will make the building settle. If you look at the pavements and roads here they are just placed on the surface or, at best, sand. This is why they disintegrate so quickly. Yes, it's cheaper in the beginning but the "whole life cost" is much more expensive.

Sorry but I'm not a builder so this might be a stupid question, but when you say "the ground is not compacted" do you mean the ground that the pads sit on ?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by pads. I'm going to guess we're talking about pavements here and pavement slabs (that's what we call them in England anyway). Yes. In England (and many other countries) pavements and roads are built by first removing a layer of dirt which you replace with crushed rubble/aggregate. This is compacted down using a compactor (a large plate attached to a machine that bangs up and down). This will be moved over the surface slowly to make sure it is pushed down so the lumps of hardcore are in a position where they can't move. Sometimes this is filled with sand as well which is then compacted down too. Finally you are ready to pour cement, smooth that down and then lay paving slabs. This technique allows for water to pass underneath the cement and run off into the ground whilst ensuring no holes are made. This technique means that pavements in England (which receive a tremendous amount of foot fall but no motorbikes, cars, etc) last for a LONG time. Living in the same house for 20 years growing up I can't remember seeing the pavements being replaced once in my street or village.

This is a more complex version

Here is a page on laying driveways and paths using bitumen

http://www.pavingexpert.com/tarmac02.htm

Hope this helps.

Edited November 18, 2014 by draftvader

[IMHO]

Wait, are the cracks just in the render, or are they into the wall itself?

Hairline cracks in render are standard... Cracks in the blocks are not.

[dfp]

Could also be a poor paint job. We had similar problems within the warranty period on our house and since the developer would most likely do a poor paint job once again and I had TOA to come to our house and come up with a solution. The problems were:

1. Cracked walls on the outer walls of the house itself.

2. Cracked walls on the outer/inner side of the fencing around the house including fungus.

The solution for fungus is of course anti-fungus material being appiied after the walls have been washed down completely.

The solution for the cracks on the outer walls of the house is

Elastomeric Paint Coating

http://www.hytechsales.com/prod1000.html

The walls are now OK.

[malt25]

wacker plates ( vibrating compactors) are available in hardware house and other well known places.

They also use vibrating rollers in Thailand

but as others have said cracks are more than likely just the render drying out too quick

Agreed. I've seen numerous vibrating rollers being used on roadworks on drives from Chiang Mai to Sakon Nakhon.

Just for what it's worth.

Cheers..... Mal.

[cooked]

During ground works if the ground is not compacted and/or doesn't have a decent ground water course then the weight of the building and/or the ground washing away will make the building settle. If you look at the pavements and roads here they are just placed on the surface or, at best, sand. This is why they disintegrate so quickly. Yes, it's cheaper in the beginning but the "whole life cost" is much more expensive.

Sorry but I'm not a builder so this might be a stupid question, but when you say "the ground is not compacted" do you mean the ground that the pads sit on ?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by pads. I'm going to guess we're talking about pavements here and pavement slabs (that's what we call them in England anyway). Yes. In England (and many other countries) pavements and roads are built by first removing a layer of dirt which you replace with crushed rubble/aggregate. This is compacted down using a compactor (a large plate attached to a machine that bangs up and down). This will be moved over the surface slowly to make sure it is pushed down so the lumps of hardcore are in a position where they can't move. Sometimes this is filled with sand as well which is then compacted down too. Finally you are ready to pour cement, smooth that down and then lay paving slabs. This technique allows for water to pass underneath the cement and run off into the ground whilst ensuring no holes are made. This technique means that pavements in England (which receive a tremendous amount of foot fall but no motorbikes, cars, etc) last for a LONG time. Living in the same house for 20 years growing up I can't remember seeing the pavements being replaced once in my street or village.

This is a more complex version

Here is a page on laying driveways and paths using bitumen

http://www.pavingexpert.com/tarmac02.htm

Hope this helps.

Sorry to take you to task, but the diagram shows concrete only being used to secure the kerbs. Not to lay slabs upon, a strange practice that I have only ever seen in England. If you can lay and smooth out concrete of a decent quality you don't need slabs, do you?

[Time Traveller]

Hire a building engineer for a report. Regardless of whether they represent structual problems or not, I would not want to live in a house with walls like that.

[trogers]

During ground works if the ground is not compacted and/or doesn't have a decent ground water course then the weight of the building and/or the ground washing away will make the building settle. If you look at the pavements and roads here they are just placed on the surface or, at best, sand. This is why they disintegrate so quickly. Yes, it's cheaper in the beginning but the "whole life cost" is much more expensive.

Sorry but I'm not a builder so this might be a stupid question, but when you say "the ground is not compacted" do you mean the ground that the pads sit on ?éř

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by pads. I'm going to guess we're talking about pavements here and pavement slabs (that's what we call them in England anyway). Yes. In England (and many other countries) pavements and roads are built by first removing a layer of dirt which you replace with crushed rubble/aggregate. This is compacted down using a compactor (a large plate attached to a machine that bangs up and down). This will be moved over the surface slowly to make sure it is pushed down so the lumps of hardcore are in a position where they can't move. Sometimes this is filled with sand as well which is then compacted down too. Finally you are ready to pour cement, smooth that down and then lay paving slabs. This technique allows for water to pass underneath the cement and run off into the ground whilst ensuring no holes are made. This technique means that pavements in England (which receive a tremendous amount of foot fall but no motorbikes, cars, etc) last for a LONG time. Living in the same house for 20 years growing up I can't remember seeing the pavements being replaced once in my street or village.

This is a more complex version

Here is a page on laying driveways and paths using bitumen

http://www.pavingexpert.com/tarmac02.htm

Hope this helps.

Sorry to take you to task, but the diagram shows concrete only being used to secure the kerbs. Not to lay slabs upon, a strange practice that I have only ever seen in England. If you can lay and smooth out concrete of a decent quality you don't need slabs, do you?

This is a cross-section diagram for constructing an external footpath or walkway, not a concrete road.

[cooked]

During ground works if the ground is not compacted and/or doesn't have a decent ground water course then the weight of the building and/or the ground washing away will make the building settle. If you look at the pavements and roads here they are just placed on the surface or, at best, sand. This is why they disintegrate so quickly. Yes, it's cheaper in the beginning but the "whole life cost" is much more expensive.

Sorry but I'm not a builder so this might be a stupid question, but when you say "the ground is not compacted" do you mean the ground that the pads sit on ?éř

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by pads. I'm going to guess we're talking about pavements here and pavement slabs (that's what we call them in England anyway). Yes. In England (and many other countries) pavements and roads are built by first removing a layer of dirt which you replace with crushed rubble/aggregate. This is compacted down using a compactor (a large plate attached to a machine that bangs up and down). This will be moved over the surface slowly to make sure it is pushed down so the lumps of hardcore are in a position where they can't move. Sometimes this is filled with sand as well which is then compacted down too. Finally you are ready to pour cement, smooth that down and then lay paving slabs. This technique allows for water to pass underneath the cement and run off into the ground whilst ensuring no holes are made. This technique means that pavements in England (which receive a tremendous amount of foot fall but no motorbikes, cars, etc) last for a LONG time. Living in the same house for 20 years growing up I can't remember seeing the pavements being replaced once in my street or village.

This is a more complex version

Here is a page on laying driveways and paths using bitumen

http://www.pavingexpert.com/tarmac02.htm

Hope this helps.

Sorry to take you to task, but the diagram shows concrete only being used to secure the kerbs. Not to lay slabs upon, a strange practice that I have only ever seen in England. If you can lay and smooth out concrete of a decent quality you don't need slabs, do you?

This is a cross-section diagram for constructing an external footpath or walkway, not a concrete road.

... and of course, has nothing to do with cracks in walls.

[thailand49]

Look around your area where the house is built? if it is not a development most likely they never packed the ground dirt properly. If it is a individual house they most likely land fill it slowly during rainy season using the wet season as a means to pack it down.

When they build the houses in my experience I have a house and a apartment. My house walls are built with the small red bricks which I was told are stronger and more expensive. After 10 years I yet to see a crack and the addition I had built using the same material and method yet to see a crack after 8 years.

My apartment rented to low income Thais, a cheaper material was use which is the same they use to built retaining walls, gray cement blocks that are not solid. You can drop these blocks they are 6x15 and 1 inch thick? on the ground and majority of the time they will crack in half. In several of my units I have these cracks which I just widen the crack and place a concrete mix inside, smooth it out and they paint over it can't ever tell there was a crack. Unless CM is earthquake country I would not worry about it too much? You should worry how the plumbing, electrical and roof put together that a crack?