Buddha forbids state oversight of temples' coffers, Buddhist group claims

[MILT]

Important points to consider.

1. Buddha is a state of being or awareness....nirvana if you will not a person named Buddha, and I think that name is Bubba.

2. Buddha was never a Buddhist, before he was Siddhartha a great prince from Nepal

he then became the Buddha or enlightened being.

3. The basic message in the teachings which were originally from an oral tradition is to create and have balance

in all things and actions and above all harm no living being 2 or 4 legged.

[binjalin]

Important points to consider.

1. Buddha is a state of being or awareness....nirvana if you will not a person named Buddha, and I think that name is Bubba.

2. Buddha was never a Buddhist, before he was Siddhartha a great prince from Nepal

he then became the Buddha or enlightened being.

3. The basic message in the teachings which were originally from an oral tradition is to create and have balance

in all things and actions and above all harm no living being 2 or 4 legged.

in essence harm none - compassion for all (yes that includes animals etc.) but money? wow they have lost their 'Way'

[wabothai]

I see a lot of parallels with the catholic church.

by the way " Borgia " is a great series, check it out.

[klauskunkel]

Buddha forbids state oversight of temples' coffers

Buddha, together with Mohammed and Jesus, the lordly trio declared in a joint statement on Facebook that "thou shallst not investigateth a single damn thing about this stuff! 'Nuff said already!"

[Thaddeus]

Religion poisons everything.

Correct.

Slight correction.

Greed poisons everything, religion is the cover story in this instance.

From the OP I can see nothing Buddhist in anyone involved in it.

[Longstaff]

I see a lot of parallels with the catholic church.

Indeed. I recall the disillusionment in Ireland especially when all the pedophilia came to light a number of years ago. My in-laws at the time simply stopped going to church along with huge numbers of others. A friend, who is a catholic priest and familiar with their considerable assets in New Zealand, has long advocated unloading all the property and using the money to do some real good for people in need.

Like others I am somewhat baffled and amused by the sight of monks sipping cappuccinos while browsing the latest Samsung catalogue...Signing up as a monk (or policeman) is not for me, but whatever you sign up for, stick to the rules or lose all credibility.

I think it general practice in many countries that organisations of a religious nature have a clearly documented charitable purpose on which basis they can apply for tax exemption. Having administered a registered charity overseas we were no less required to submit audited annual accounts, complete tax returns for employees PAYE, pay VAT on sales, etc. Seems to me the temples should be doing this; and in their position as moral leaders I'd be doing this voluntarily so that I was beyond potential criticism. Clearly the financial side of Buddhism here should be completely separate from the monks themselves and professionally administered. 'Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely' as they say; seems they have absolute power of their finances as they are not accountable.

I also recall the scandalous revelations about the misuse of donations by charitable organisations in the UK, probably back in the 80's; CEO's driving Rolls Royce's etc. It's possible to lose immense public support through such actions and that would be sad both for Thailand's culture and Buddhism in general.

[Benmart]

I had an "experience" with a local wat near CM last year. It was at a local village out in the country about an hour south outside the city. Hung out with the "local" monks for about an hour while gf visiting old monk friend. Wat in total disrepair, Cigarette butts, bbq grills, beer cans and trash everywhere in their living area. TV, computer, and questionable girly mags round out the list. Just like in other countries, religion is a joke.

Not for me to denounce someone's believe or non-belief as a "joke". Tolerance and respect are not universal, particularly for the close-minded.

[slapout]

If the report is true that the Thai government actually pay the monks a salary while they reside in the temple/wear the robe, the accounting request to the payors/politicans, most likely will fall on deaf ears. What a slick way to launder ill gotten gains, as has been pointed out several times, by those who found the loop holes, and the huge sums going thru some of the temple/monks bank accounts.

I do not have much faith on those doing the translation of the Budda's guidence/preaching on the accounting issue as I doubt he wrote it down. But then I concede that I cannot speak with any real authority on the matter, but can express an opinion.

[jdinasia]

If the report is true that the Thai government actually pay the monks a salary while they reside in the temple/wear the robe, the accounting request to the payors/politicans, most likely will fall on deaf ears. What a slick way to launder ill gotten gains, as has been pointed out several times, by those who found the loop holes, and the huge sums going thru some of the temple/monks bank accounts.

I do not have much faith on those doing the translation of the Budda's guidence/preaching on the accounting issue as I doubt he wrote it down. But then I concede that I cannot speak with any real authority on the matter, but can express an opinion.

There's a report stating the government pays monks? Link please!

[Bpuumike]

 

Thailand's constitution is not based on Buddha teaching like the sharia laws, therefor,

all institutions in Thailand falls under the current laws, no exemption, you can however

be exempt from paying taxes under a certain privileges but you must be still and obey

the Thai law...

 

Firearms too!! Thought they were illegal nowadays?

[NeilSA1]

Buddhist monk and conservative hardliner Issara!

Whatever happened to him being investigated by the authorities on all the actions he took prior and during the protests six months ago?

Oh that's right he's a conservative hardliner or in other words a yellow dem who gets a free pass from the powers to be just like his mate sutep who is hiding behind monks robes.

A conservative hardliner Buddhist monk who is a disgrace to to the religion.

I hope the Buddhist council disrobes him which they should have done months ago!

I would have supported your opinion 100%, but the wording of the article makes me rethink this monks actions:

"Buddhist monk and conservative hardliner Buddha Issara previously asked the NRC to draft a law that would allow the Office of Auditor-General to view the bank accounts of all Buddhist temples. Buddha Issara argued that the measure would promote transparency."

He seems to be the only one who is in the camp of the coup makers who actually wants change/improvement/transparency. They all state they want that, but he is the only one who asks for laws to regulate the field he is in instead of only pointing somewhere else while raising hell when their own turf gets touched.

I have always had respect for this monk. Perhaps he did not intend to be regarded as a 'yellow' political leader as such, but felt that he could not ignore the prevailing situation at that time and felt compelled to act. South Africa's highly respected Archbishop Desmond Tutu was a considered a political thorn in the side of the Apartheid government but ceased politics when the ANC was unbanned, At the time many people felt that as a religious figure he had no right to act in this way.

[halloween]

I believe in complete separation of state and religion - and that religions should be audited and taxed like any other money-making business.

Freedom OF religion should also include freedom FROM it.

[rickirs]

• If the report is true that the Thai government actually pay the monks a salary while they reside in the temple/wear the robe, the accounting request to the payors/politicans, most likely will fall on deaf ears. What a slick way to launder ill gotten gains, as has been pointed out several times, by those who found the loop holes, and the huge sums going thru some of the temple/monks bank accounts.

  I do not have much faith on those doing the translation of the Budda's guidence/preaching on the accounting issue as I doubt he wrote it down. But then I concede that I cannot speak with any real authority on the matter, but can express an opinion.

• There's a report stating the government pays monks? Link please!

Hopefully you'll get a reference. Meanwhile I offer some exerpts from "Buddhism in Thailand, Its Past and Present" by Karuna Kusalasaya, 2006:

• the government allots a yearly budget for the maintenance and repair of important temples and as stipends for high ranking monks;
• all temples and monesteries are State Property;
• Department of Religious Affairs in the Ministry of Education acts as a liason office between the Government and the Sangha;
• Government officials are allowed leave with full pay for a period of four months in order to serve in monkhood

[jdinasia]

I think you will find that there are royally sponsored temples, and that after Buddhist lent that some government agencies involve themselves in donations.

Other than that the only support I am aware of from the government is covering expenses for the Sangha offices and the Buddhist University.

[Don Aleman]

Pass the law, convict the guilty and put their sorry asses, sans robe, in jail ! This should swell the national

treasury

[2fishin2]

I had an "experience" with a local wat near CM last year. It was at a local village out in the country about an hour south outside the city. Hung out with the "local" monks for about an hour while gf visiting old monk friend. Wat in total disrepair, Cigarette butts, bbq grills, beer cans and trash everywhere in their living area. TV, computer, and questionable girly mags round out the list. Just like in other countries, religion is a joke.

Not for me to denounce someone's believe or non-belief as a "joke". Tolerance and respect are not universal, particularly for the close-minded.

Religion is nothing but intolerance. Its at the core of every brand. Everyone preaches if you dont follow mine, you will go to hell. If that isnt intolerance nothing is. Look at the state of the middle east and all the killing. Every last bit of it is done in the name of religion and the hate and intolerance associated with it. Actually people who believe in religion are the close minded lot!

[khaowong1]

"She continued, "The keeping of monks' properties should be the monks' duty. ........"

SHE???????

When did Buddha start allowing women to be monks or religious spokespersons?

You need to do some research.. The Buddha ordained women to be monks some 2500 years ago. His step-mother was the first one.

[jdinasia]

I had an "experience" with a local wat near CM last year. It was at a local village out in the country about an hour south outside the city. Hung out with the "local" monks for about an hour while gf visiting old monk friend. Wat in total disrepair, Cigarette butts, bbq grills, beer cans and trash everywhere in their living area. TV, computer, and questionable girly mags round out the list. Just like in other countries, religion is a joke.

Not for me to denounce someone's believe or non-belief as a "joke". Tolerance and respect are not universal, particularly for the close-minded.

Religion is nothing but intolerance. Its at the core of every brand. Everyone preaches if you dont follow mine, you will go to hell. If that isnt intolerance nothing is. Look at the state of the middle east and all the killing. Every last bit of it is done in the name of religion and the hate and intolerance associated with it. Actually people who believe in religion are the close minded lot!

Hmmmm while there are some issues with Buddhism in Sri Lanka and Myanmar, I suggest you look into the Dharma before you state Buddhism teaches that it is the only answer.

[Acharn]

Wish this guy had said which sutta (sermon or lesson attributed to the Buddha) gave this teaching. Ordinarily I'd say financial matters would be covered in the Vinaya. I've read there's a Mahayana Vinaya from China that went into quite a lot of detail about how the money is supposed to be distributed and what happens to the possessions of a rich monk when he dies. I don't know if the Vinaya the Thai government chose back in the nineteenth century included rules like that. Let's face it, since a couple of generations after the Buddha's death, the temples have been heavily dependent on government sponsorship and support. Of course the various governments are going to insist on a certain amount of control. In Japan the amount of land owned by the temples was a big cause of dissatisfaction during the Sengoku period. No, if he's going to make this claim he's going to have to cite chapter and verse from the Tripitaka. Both Rama IV and Rama V were deeply involved in reform of the Sangkha and establishing government control of temple administration. I don't think he wants to argue that they did not do good.

[Acharn]

<snip>

I do not have much faith on those doing the translation of the Budda's guidence/preaching on the accounting issue as I doubt he wrote it down. But then I concede that I cannot speak with any real authority on the matter, but can express an opinion.

Well, yes, anyone can express an opinion. The only question is whether it has any worth or not. The fact is none of the Buddha's words were written down until hundreds of years after his death. They were transmitted orally from the fifth century B.C.E. to the first century C.E. In addition, starting in the first or second century B.C.E. a variant form of Buddhism arose which called itself the Mahayana and was rather different from the original, or Hinayana, form. I prefer the Hinayana (or Theravada) form, myself, but the Mahayana form is what is practiced in Vietnam, China, Mongolia, Korea, and Japan. Then there's the Tibetan form, which I consider just weird. Each school has thousands of essays, sermons, interpretations, commentaries, and teachings, many of which contradict each other. According to Donald S. Lopez, Jr., in "The Story of Buddhism: A Concise Guide to its History & Teachings" nobody even knows for sure how many texts there are or how many have been lost through the ages.

[2fishin2]

I had an "experience" with a local wat near CM last year. It was at a local village out in the country about an hour south outside the city. Hung out with the "local" monks for about an hour while gf visiting old monk friend. Wat in total disrepair, Cigarette butts, bbq grills, beer cans and trash everywhere in their living area. TV, computer, and questionable girly mags round out the list. Just like in other countries, religion is a joke.

Not for me to denounce someone's believe or non-belief as a "joke". Tolerance and respect are not universal, particularly for the close-minded.

Religion is nothing but intolerance. Its at the core of every brand. Everyone preaches if you dont follow mine, you will go to hell. If that isnt intolerance nothing is. Look at the state of the middle east and all the killing. Every last bit of it is done in the name of religion and the hate and intolerance associated with it. Actually people who believe in religion are the close minded lot!

Hmmmm while there are some issues with Buddhism in Sri Lanka and Myanmar, I suggest you look into the Dharma before you state Buddhism teaches that it is the only answer.

Buddhism isnt a religion its a person's opinion and a cult at best....

[jdinasia]

Religions by size

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

[MexicanFarang]

And Buddhism also forbids:

1. To abstain from taking the lives of living beings.

2. To abstain from taking that which is not given.

3. To abstain from sexual misconduct.

4. To abstain from telling falsehoods.

5. To abstain from distilled and fermented intoxicants, which are the occasion for carelessness

Buddhism = "Cafeteria plan". Simply pick and choose which religious tenet you want to obey and pretend the rest don't exist.

Same, same all other religions:Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus: 100% ignore most of their religious dogma...

[cookee68]

What are they afraid off, what will they uncover I wonder, they are not as innocent as many people believe, and Buddha's to think they are un-touchable, they should remember they are not above the law or government, I hate when people use religion to avoid things, or as an excuse, lord Buddha teaches many things, and many things are done that lord Buddha does not preach

[BSJ]

Transparency is what is needed. A lot of the poor give cos they are believers, but often they unaware of what happens on the other side of the golden curtain.

[Benmart]

I had an "experience" with a local wat near CM last year. It was at a local village out in the country about an hour south outside the city. Hung out with the "local" monks for about an hour while gf visiting old monk friend. Wat in total disrepair, Cigarette butts, bbq grills, beer cans and trash everywhere in their living area. TV, computer, and questionable girly mags round out the list. Just like in other countries, religion is a joke.

Not for me to denounce someone's believe or non-belief as a "joke". Tolerance and respect are not universal, particularly for the close-minded.

Religion is nothing but intolerance. Its at the core of every brand. Everyone preaches if you dont follow mine, you will go to hell. If that isnt intolerance nothing is. Look at the state of the middle east and all the killing. Every last bit of it is done in the name of religion and the hate and intolerance associated with it. Actually people who believe in religion are the close minded lot!

I'm a somewhat religious person and very tolerant, even to those that are not.

I've not met every person from every religion, nor have I met every person who does not believe in any religion. To claim otherwise, is truely astounding.

"Everyone" and "Every" are words that are often used indiscriminately, without basis and without supporting data.

[2fishin2]

I had an "experience" with a local wat near CM last year. It was at a local village out in the country about an hour south outside the city. Hung out with the "local" monks for about an hour while gf visiting old monk friend. Wat in total disrepair, Cigarette butts, bbq grills, beer cans and trash everywhere in their living area. TV, computer, and questionable girly mags round out the list. Just like in other countries, religion is a joke.

Not for me to denounce someone's believe or non-belief as a "joke". Tolerance and respect are not universal, particularly for the close-minded.

Religion is nothing but intolerance. Its at the core of every brand. Everyone preaches if you dont follow mine, you will go to hell. If that isnt intolerance nothing is. Look at the state of the middle east and all the killing. Every last bit of it is done in the name of religion and the hate and intolerance associated with it. Actually people who believe in religion are the close minded lot!

I'm a somewhat religious person and very tolerant, even to those that are not.

I've not met every person from every religion, nor have I met every person who does not believe in any religion. To claim otherwise, is truely astounding.

"Everyone" and "Every" are words that are often used indiscriminately, without basis and without supporting data.

What part of " if you dont conform to my religion you will go to hell" is tolerant and non-judgmental? Nothing! All religions attitude is "my way or the highway" thats pretty damn intolerant and judgmental if you ask me.

[ableguy]

Buddhist monk and conservative hardliner Issara!

Whatever happened to him being investigated by the authorities on all the actions he took prior and during the protests six months ago?

Oh that's right he's a conservative hardliner or in other words a yellow dem who gets a free pass from the powers to be just like his mate sutep who is hiding behind monks robes.

A conservative hardliner Buddhist monk who is a disgrace to to the religion.

I hope the Buddhist council disrobes him which they should have done months ago!

You seem to be seriously confused.