Bribe checks on land offices in Thailand

[webfact]

Bribe checks on land offices
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Land Department will soon ask for information from the National Anti-Corruption Commission, following a recent survey that land offices were the most corrupt, taking almost Bt2 billion in bribes.

The agency is not ignoring the problem and officials will be given clear information on further action, department chief Siripong Hantrakul said. He added that there are 831 land offices nationwide.

Siripong said the department had asked for details before, but was told the information was confidential.

He said people could file complaints about bribe-taking officials to the Damrongtham Centre or they could write directly to him via letter, fax or LINE app, so those found guilty can be punished.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Bribe-checks-on-land-offices-30248147.html


-- The Nation 2014-11-20

[hanuman2543]

Start with the Pukhet Land Office. Enough work for decades.

[Mango Bob]

Now those in charge act surprised that this has been going on. Anyone who owns a piece of land knows there been corruption and graft in this area for decades.

[jaidam]

Would it not be easier just to audit all govt employees(incl. land office) and see who is unusually wealthy? On a salary of around 15k per month, it always strikes me as odd that the staff are driving around in Mercedes and Porshes, often live in huge gated mansions, and on occasion splurge out half a billion buying a few shares on the SET. They might be canny investors or amazing savers but I'm not convinced. PS check these employees gardeners,chauffers and maids assets too, sometimes money gets lost or mistakenly transferred, accidents will happen.

[NongKhaiKid]

Even if the information was forthcoming what action would be taken ?

Oops sorry that's a rhetorical question !

[NongKhaiKid]

Would it not be easier just to audit all govt employees(incl. land office) and see who is unusually wealthy? On a salary of around 15k per month, it always strikes me as odd that the staff are driving around in Mercedes and Porshes, often live in huge gated mansions, and on occasion splurge out half a billion buying a few shares on the SET. They might be canny investors or amazing savers but I'm not convinced. PS check these employees gardeners,chauffers and maids assets too, sometimes money gets lost or mistakenly transferred, accidents will happen.

Were we not cautioned by the PM not to jump to conclusions about wealth ?

It might be possible that EVERYONE married a wealthy woman !

[thesetat2013]

So good of them to give advance warning to the Land offices... So this month no bribes will be asked for by them... The PERFECT TIME to buy some land is NOW.....

Everyone knows in a couple months they will be demanding bribes again once the investigations and feeble attempts to catch these officials taking bribes is over.

[delgarcon]

Let's face it, we all pay these bribes for our own benefit, otherwise why pay them?

[SABloke]

Let's face it, we all pay these bribes for our own benefit, otherwise why pay them?

Really? My friend (Thai) recently divided up 100 Rai of land (valued at 135 million) into10 rai, plots. The fees for surveying came to about 250 000 Baht. When he went to collect his new land deeds, they were sitting on the head honcho's desk, unsigned. Without his signature they are not valid: He wanted 20 000 Baht per deed (200 000). His reasoning was that my friend could afford it since he was going to make millions later. Unfortunately for him, my friend went above his paygrade, and called directly to HIS friend in BKK. Local <deleted> had the documents ready the next week: He didn't want to be transfered, bless him.

Now what worries me is that A: Most of us don't have the right connections to get this done, we are at the mercy of these corrupt <deleted> and B: The land departmenrlt know their local rep. is corrupt, he admitted to being so, but he STILL works there. :blink:

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Even if the information was forthcoming what action would be taken ?
Oops sorry that's a rhetorical question !

Did I read right , rhetorical or did you mean historical NKK

[craigt3365]

Get rid of only accepting payments as cash. It's crazy going into the land office and seeing others walking around with large bags full of money.

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Let's face it, we all pay these bribes for our own benefit, otherwise why pay them?

Really? My friend (Thai) recently divided up 100 Rai of land (valued at 135 million) into10 rai, plots. The fees for surveying came to about 250 000 Baht. When he went to collect his new land deeds, they were sitting on the head honcho's desk, unsigned. Without his signature they are not valid: He wanted 20 000 Baht per deed (200 000). His reasoning was that my friend could afford it since he was going to make millions later. Unfortunately for him, my friend went above his paygrade, and called directly to HIS friend in BKK. Local <deleted> had the documents ready the next week: He didn't want to be transfered, bless him.

Now what worries me is that A: Most of us don't have the right connections to get this done, we are at the mercy of these corrupt <deleted> and B: The land departmenrlt know their local rep. is corrupt, he admitted to being so, but he STILL works there.

I couldn't open a bank account until I gave a 4 star gratitude money once, years ago.

[Chao Lao Beach]

Now those in charge act surprised that this has been going on. Anyone who owns a piece of land knows there been corruption and graft in this area for decades.

You are very true.

Some offices make you wait for over 1 year if you don't bribe, and I am not talking a few thousand either, just to get them to do their job. Disgusting pricks.

[aussieinthailand]

What's that? CORRUPTION in the land department for decades???? well I never...

Now who was the big boss of the land department just a few years ago??? and wasn't there a little controversy regarding this official and his land dealings???

and if I recall his kids also have some questions regarding land acquisitions???

AAHHHHhhhh I know who it was now,,, he is currently masquerading as a monk now and refuses to turn up to court hearings, c'mon all you uncle Suthep lovers, were are you??? we all know it,,, tea money go's up the chain, as sh*t flows down hill.

Edited November 20, 2014 by aussieinthailand

[Tatsujin]

Let's face it, we all pay these bribes for our own benefit, otherwise why pay them?

No, most people pay them because they have no other choice and don't have the connections to go over the head of the thief (Government Official or Policeman) that is stopping them from doing things legitimately.

[oneday]

Out of curiosity what are the bribes for?

I only personally know of one and that is the waiting time to get your land surveyed and markers set. This is almost always time sensitive as you are usually ready to build and can't make a perimeter wall until this is settled. It's always been my understanding that with a little bribe (1000-2000) you can get it surveyed in a couple days, otherwise it could take 45 days or much longer...as someone said above up to 1 year.

So what other transactions do people pay bribes for?

[upena]

When my wife purchased land to have our house built in Khon Kaen, she had to pay 3,000 baht to move the paperwork from the bottom to the top of the pile. Then, there was the 3,000 baht payment to have the land properly surveyed, and an additional 5,000 baht to have the architect's drawings approved by 7 different people in the same office. I considered them "expedite fees".

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Start with the Pukhet Land Office. Enough work for decades.

Pattaya also. 20+ years back I provided the funds to buy a nice townhouse, then about 1Million Baht.

Trusted lawyer went with family to land office, I didn't go. Lawyer had warned us in advance to expect a demand for team money.

It went like this, OIC says: 'Almost every government office in Thailand is closed today for a public holiday, I feel so sad that my staff have to work today, so I'm going to ask every customer today to contribute to a small fund which I will distribute to all staff this evening. 30,000Baht please'.

Lawyer then mentioned: 'That's story number 25, he had many many more'.

[PaulHamon]

Let's face it, we all pay these bribes for our own benefit, otherwise why pay them?

if you mean.. paying the bribe at the land office for them do their job....

not sure if that is in the public interest.

[SoilSpoil]

The white envelopes don't even go under the table in Nonthaburi. We sold land and house and were required to 'help out' bank managers and pay a donation fee to the people at the land department. Common knowledge in Thailand. So why do they need information of the NACC. The top of the Land Departments know exactly what's going on and I wonder how well off these civil servants are?

[EnglishJohn]

What's that? CORRUPTION in the land department for decades???? well I never...

Now who was the big boss of the land department just a few years ago??? and wasn't there a little controversy regarding this official and his land dealings???

and if I recall his kids also have some questions regarding land acquisitions???

AAHHHHhhhh I know who it was now,,, he is currently masquerading as a monk now and refuses to turn up to court hearings, c'mon all you uncle Suthep lovers, were are you??? we all know it,,, tea money go's up the chain, as sh*t flows down hill.

aussieinthailand : please check the security of access to your PC : I think your 6 year old boy has been posting from it.

[Chris Lawrence]

Make the top managers pay tax on the monies contributed by the general public. They can then recover the payments from their staff? Kick em in the ball$ where it hurts. They will soon smarten up their act.

What about the judicial system? Their payments could be quite high to ensure you get the right judgement in your favour. But this may not be seen as corruption?

[gemini81]

What's that? CORRUPTION in the land department for decades???? well I never...

Now who was the big boss of the land department just a few years ago??? and wasn't there a little controversy regarding this official and his land dealings???

and if I recall his kids also have some questions regarding land acquisitions???

AAHHHHhhhh I know who it was now,,, he is currently masquerading as a monk now and refuses to turn up to court hearings, c'mon all you uncle Suthep lovers, were are you??? we all know it,,, tea money go's up the chain, as sh*t flows down hill.

You sound incredibly smart!

[Krataiboy]

The agency is not ignoring the problem

But only because it is not being allowed to any longer. Everybody who has ever been involved in a land/property deal here knows how corrupt the system is.

Hope they do some checking at the land office where, when I bought my wife a house, we were strung along for hours because she wished to include a lease to me in the registration papers. Having cleared all the hurdles - or so we thought - we were told that what we required was not strictly legal but the boss would append his signature if we coughed up 20,000 baht on top of the usual registration fee.

I told them where to go and walked out. Unfortunately, most people just pay up, so the scam goes on. Let us hope pressure is put on to ensure a thorough investigation, with the facts made public and those on the take prosecuted, not just reassigned to continue their nefarious practices elsewhere.

[Sviss Geez]

Would it not be easier just to audit all govt employees(incl. land office) and see who is unusually wealthy? On a salary of around 15k per month, it always strikes me as odd that the staff are driving around in Mercedes and Porshes, often live in huge gated mansions, and on occasion splurge out half a billion buying a few shares on the SET. They might be canny investors or amazing savers but I'm not convinced. PS check these employees gardeners,chauffers and maids assets too, sometimes money gets lost or mistakenly transferred, accidents will happen.

"...it always strikes me as odd that the staff are driving around in Mercedes and Porshes,"

It always strikes me as odd that some posters continue to make up allegations as ridiculous as this one. Unless, of course, you can substantiate your claim with, let's say, just one example?

[BestBitterPhuket]

Would it not be easier just to audit all govt employees(incl. land office) and see who is unusually wealthy? On a salary of around 15k per month, it always strikes me as odd that the staff are driving around in Mercedes and Porshes, often live in huge gated mansions, and on occasion splurge out half a billion buying a few shares on the SET. They might be canny investors or amazing savers but I'm not convinced. PS check these employees gardeners,chauffers and maids assets too, sometimes money gets lost or mistakenly transferred, accidents will happen.

Were we not cautioned by the PM not to jump to conclusions about wealth ?

It might be possible that EVERYONE married a wealthy woman !

This is why the spouses should be checked too. You can be sure that a spouse of a super corrupt official or politician will not be working, so she/he will not be able to show any convincing and legal money trail either.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The white envelopes don't even go under the table in Nonthaburi. We sold land and house and were required to 'help out' bank managers and pay a donation fee to the people at the land department. Common knowledge in Thailand. So why do they need information of the NACC. The top of the Land Departments know exactly what's going on and I wonder how well off these civil servants are?

One step further - the national & regional heads and local OICs all know in detail what's been going on for decades, and in the real world they would be charges with corruption offences plus charged for serious dereliction of duty for not doing anything about it.

Managing the rich scheme seems to also come to mind

Edited November 20, 2014 by scorecard

[Sviss Geez]

When my wife purchased land to have our house built in Khon Kaen, she had to pay 3,000 baht to move the paperwork from the bottom to the top of the pile. Then, there was the 3,000 baht payment to have the land properly surveyed, and an additional 5,000 baht to have the architect's drawings approved by 7 different people in the same office. I considered them "expedite fees".

What made your wife think that she was special enough to have her name moved from the bottom to the top of the list over others who were there before her?

You and her are both as corrupt as the officials.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Sviss Geez

[Sydebolle]

And once you're done (if ever) then cross over to the Department of Motor Vehicles/Land Transport. It is mind-blowing what happens there; the Banglamung-office near Pattaya takes the biscuit and must be featuring by far the richest public servants.

[craigt3365]

And once you're done (if ever) then cross over to the Department of Motor Vehicles/Land Transport. It is mind-blowing what happens there; the Banglamung-office near Pattaya takes the biscuit and must be featuring by far the richest public servants.

Hmmm...I've not had any problems there. I got my scooter license a few years ago. I was on some silly Scoopy rental, helmet didn't fit, and I'm use to a manual, bigger motorcycle. I fell off that elevated plank about 1/2 meter before the end. He was going to fail me. Several others also fell off, but nobody was watching.

I live quite a long way away, so didn't want to have to come back again. And I've been riding bikes my whole life. Wifey tried to offer the guy a coke if he'd let me pass. No way. Wouldn't take anything! Finally, after she helped him out with many questions the foreigners were throwing at him, he quietly passed me. But no bribe taking. Impossible. Which is great.

I was also shocked at the customs department in Laem Chabang, especially with all the negative press that's been going around. I've been twice to help friends out with musical instruments that have been stuck there. No bribes asked, just straight forward application of the duties. Easy peasy.