Motorcycle Instructors (Not USA MSF Idiots)

[Albertnobgammer]

Does anyone know if there are any "Qualified" Western / Brits/ Aussies or similar that would be willing to give a few lessons on how not to die, how to negotiate tight slow turns to an old fart who wants to really learn a motorbike. (Northern Thailand) This old fart is getting long in the tooth, has a REAL fear of water on roads, was denied any motorcycle experience at 17 due to an overprotective mother and a father that bought shit 2nd hand Yamaha 80 CC bikes that were not fit to be on the road.

I am willing to pay, I would love to learn the traction limits of a bike in the wet (currently I feel like I am driving on ice when it is only water) I have no problem with speed whatsoever, I use helmets gloves etc. so not a poser. I would just like someone that is comfortable on 2 wheels to give me a few lessons on the same, I have been a 4 wheel driver for 33 years but only experienced 2 wheels off and on maybe twice or thrice in 50 years.

I would really like to know the limits and what to look out for when slow manouevering, especially on shitty gravel and dirty Thai roads.

My self confidence goes to pot on a left or right hand turn at about 2 MPH on Thai dust and trash.

Serious, if anyone can help me overcome the irrational fear of Thai drivers it would be appreciated. Like I say, I have no problem driving anywhere here, I normally drive a 4x4 Toyota and would not flinch at running over a Dog / Cat / Thai idiot on a motorbike, but when you get on a bike here the fear of meeting up with a retard ruins the ride.

I travel 60KM each day in my truck, twice a day on a 15 km each way trip to take my son to school and almost without a doubt, I will have some sort of bad experience with the Thai Retard on the road whether motorbike or car.

The problem I have is that I really have a fear of being killed or badly hurt, yet these idiots will pull out on you anywhere and just smile like some mentally retarded when you could have actually killed them, what goes on in the mind of these FISH BRAINED IDIOTS!

My main requirement is how to move around at very low speed, how to pull away in a tight turn on a hill using a hill start, how to get the confidence in turning at slow speed on full lock, how to pull away on a full lock etc, I am sure a few guys that know bikes know what I mean.

It is a piece of piss to drive 150 on a dual lane highway, I need someone to help me with the slow stuff.

It really pisses me off when you see some old Grandma of about 70 years turn a motorbike on a penny. I have a 250CBR and cannot yet get it to turn consistently in anything less than an 8 foot diameter.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Albertnobgammer

[ATF]

Google "Twist of the Throttle". Don't know what bike you ride but mods should move this to the bike forum.

[Albertnobgammer]

Google "Twist of the Throttle". Don't know what bike you ride but mods should move this to the bike forum.

Cheers, I will have a look, but it is the same as when I first learned to drive a car, you can read and read forever, but just getting a few hours in with a competent teacher will make a heck of a difference. I have driven literally millions of miles over the years but all of these were in a 4 wheeler. The only accident I have ever had is when a Thai idiot ran up my ass, and when my truck slid on ice during parking into a parked car.

I am not overly cautious especially in a car, I used to run up the M5/M6/M1 from Cornwall to Newcastle in less than 5 hours, 220KMH, but on a bike..........man it is not the same feeling!

I don't consider myself stupid, I passed my UK Driving test after 3 lessons when I was seventeen and passed first time. I was never allowed to ride a motorbike so the only experience I ever had was a pushbike until I came to Thailand. I bought an old Honda XLR 250 and to be honest that bastard killed my confidence totally on the road as it stalled at every junction and you had to jump off and kick it over with your left leg. The clutch was terrible, it would drag you all over even with the lever pulled in - The clutch basket was a gonner.

This new 250CBR is fantastic, but I have some already in built fears that I do not know how to get rid of, take for example riding on a wet road in the rain - I have never done it on a bike in 50 years and it simply scared the shit out of me that it was like being on ice! Obviously it isn't... so how do you learn to overcome this?

I was riding one day and had to make what was almost a left U turn, really tight, I grabbed the front brake and nearly lost it on the loose shit / sand gravel.....How do you judge this?

Believe me, any help is greatly appreciated, I want to be able to ride this bugger before I die!

Edited November 21, 2014 by Albertnobgammer

[robblok]

Get some new tires on the bike if you fear wet roads and grip. The standard tires are not the best there ate. I sold my CBR250 to a friend and he said it rode much better wit pirelli rosso 2.

[Albertnobgammer]

Get some new tires on the bike if you fear wet roads and grip. The standard tires are not the best there ate. I sold my CBR250 to a friend and he said it rode much better wit pirelli rosso 2.

Cheers, I heard the same about the Pirellis - however, my problem at the moment is complete lack of experience on two wheels. I went out last week on a road I know that I can easily do 60-70 KMH through the bends, but then it started raining and honestly, if I got up to 10KMH I was lucky, I almost got off and pushed the bloody thing.

In 50 years of driving I have never rode in the rain on a bike and it was totally terrifying. (After 30 minutes of pushing on it was better but I was shitting myself) The bike has these Honda 250R standard tyres that look almost all rubber, no grooves for water...I expected to slide off at every corner.

It is an irrational fear, I understand this already, I said in a previous post I used to ride an old XLR piece of junk, after 2 beers I would go anywhere, but now wanting to learn, stone cold sober to try and master this thing is really difficult. It would be great to be able to spend an hour or 2 or 4 or 8...... with a good rider that could show me where to go.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Albertnobgammer

[ATF]

Albert no bike drives well in the rain unless you are at low speeds. Get a set of Pirelli Supercorsas and do a few track days. Learn about countersteering. A bike doesn't steer the same way as a car.

A 250 is not a very powerful bike but it's enough to learn on.

If you hit gravel accelerate don't brake.

Edited November 21, 2014 by ATF

[robblok]

I cant help you i think i learned most by doing when i was young on a low cc bike.

Now im OK but by no means good enough to instruct. I wanted to do some advanced riding lessons in the Netherlands 2 monts ago but it got cancelled.

I just go slower in the rain, had to make some fast stops once in the rain so i know what to expect. It depends on the road and traffic.

[Albertnobgammer]

Albert no bike drives well in the rain unless you are at low speeds. Get a set of Pirelli Supercorsas and do a few track days. Learn about countersteering. A bike doesn't steer the same way as a car.

A 250 is not a very powerful bike but it's enough to learn on.

I totally understand countersteering, that is not a problem, it is the slow speed REAL steering, the front brake when you grab it by accident, countersteering is fun, push not pull, like I said this bike will run at 140 no problem and is smooth like flying a plane. There is no way I would do track days, I just want to be able to ride the damn thing without looking like an idiot! It does not help here when you get up to a stoplight and you end up with about 50 <deleted> on bike within an inch of you......when you sometimes get that bit of a wobble when you pull away or the fat 40 stone 12 year old pig beast on a Honda 110 decides to wobble into you....

[ATF]

Albert no bike drives well in the rain unless you are at low speeds. Get a set of Pirelli Supercorsas and do a few track days. Learn about countersteering. A bike doesn't steer the same way as a car.

A 250 is not a very powerful bike but it's enough to learn on.

I totally understand countersteering, that is not a problem, it is the slow speed REAL steering, the front brake when you grab it by accident, countersteering is fun, push not pull, like I said this bike will run at 140 no problem and is smooth like flying a plane. There is no way I would do track days, I just want to be able to ride the damn thing without looking like an idiot! It does not help here when you get up to a stoplight and you end up with about 50 <deleted> on bike within an inch of you......when you sometimes get that bit of a wobble when you pull away or the fat 40 stone 12 year old pig beast on a Honda 110 decides to wobble into you....

Well the the only answer to the stop light thing is get a bigger really loud bike and the plebs will stay away.

[Albertnobgammer]

I cant help you i think i learned most by doing when i was young on a low cc bike.

Now im OK but by no means good enough to instruct. I wanted to do some advanced riding lessons in the Netherlands 2 monts ago but it got cancelled.

I just go slower in the rain, had to make some fast stops once in the rain so i know what to expect. It depends on the road and traffic.

Cheers,

I totally understand, all of these guys that seem to ride bikes started when they were 15-18, my mother would never let me try and ride a bike, by the time I was 17 I had a car, I always feel I missed out. Now I am into the old Fart years, it is not so easy to learn. The road sense is easy, same as driving a car, just scan for idiots, scan and scan. I just wish I could get the low speed practice. When I had the XLR I could ride all around my place ( I have 20 Rai, we could jump up hills, ride through mud, all sorts of obstacles, driving between Lime Trees, - if you made a mistake you got your skin ripped off by the thorns. The CBR250 is not a happy bike in these conditions so it is not easy to practice anymore.

[Albertnobgammer]

Albert no bike drives well in the rain unless you are at low speeds. Get a set of Pirelli Supercorsas and do a few track days. Learn about countersteering. A bike doesn't steer the same way as a car.

A 250 is not a very powerful bike but it's enough to learn on.

I totally understand countersteering, that is not a problem, it is the slow speed REAL steering, the front brake when you grab it by accident, countersteering is fun, push not pull, like I said this bike will run at 140 no problem and is smooth like flying a plane. There is no way I would do track days, I just want to be able to ride the damn thing without looking like an idiot! It does not help here when you get up to a stoplight and you end up with about 50 <deleted> on bike within an inch of you......when you sometimes get that bit of a wobble when you pull away or the fat 40 stone 12 year old pig beast on a Honda 110 decides to wobble into you....

Well the the only answer to the stop light thing is get a bigger really loud bike and the plebs will stay away.

Like your idea, but to be honest if I wobble on a start on a 250, I am going to end up on my arse as a laughing stock if I try to blast off on something like a 600. To be honest the 250 is well fast enough for me around here. If I was going to do any serious miles I would like to try the CBR600, but I am not in that league yet, I need to get to grips with the CBR, It is just so different to ride compared with those crap automatics and semi automatics and the old XLR. The other thing here is it is best to keep the dB of the engine down a bit as it attracts the local Bacon Boys, my last bike cost me a pretty penny when they caught me (No Green book etc.......) It cost me more than 15K Baht in Coffee and booze to bribe the local swine into getting my bike back (all of this crap about no green book and showing an invoice is just rubbish - they will take your bike - like I say, 15K and I ended up with a 1500 Baht receipt for all of the tax insurance fines and 400 baht for no license, the rest was on bribes.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Albertnobgammer

[ATF]

Albert no bike drives well in the rain unless you are at low speeds. Get a set of Pirelli Supercorsas and do a few track days. Learn about countersteering. A bike doesn't steer the same way as a car.

A 250 is not a very powerful bike but it's enough to learn on.

I totally understand countersteering, that is not a problem, it is the slow speed REAL steering, the front brake when you grab it by accident, countersteering is fun, push not pull, like I said this bike will run at 140 no problem and is smooth like flying a plane. There is no way I would do track days, I just want to be able to ride the damn thing without looking like an idiot! It does not help here when you get up to a stoplight and you end up with about 50 <deleted> on bike within an inch of you......when you sometimes get that bit of a wobble when you pull away or the fat 40 stone 12 year old pig beast on a Honda 110 decides to wobble into you....

Well the the only answer to the stop light thing is get a bigger really loud bike and the plebs will stay away.

Like your idea, but to be honest if I wobble on a start on a 250, I am going to end up on my arse as a laughing stock if I try to blast off on something like a 600. To be honest the 250 is well fast enough for me around here. If I was going to do any serious miles I would like to try the CBR600, but I am not in that league yet, I need to get to grips with the CBR, It is just so different to ride compared with those crap automatics and semi automatics and the old XLR

Just give it some time and practice you'll soon grow out of the 250 and want something more powerful. Take your time and I think it was "Twist of the Wrist" you should Google.

[Albertnobgammer]

It appears that I cannot just keep replying to you..... anyway, thanks for your info, and thanks for your help, if any of you bike guys are interested, there is a really good US forum well worth a look, it is more for the big bikes like Gold Wings but some of the safety advice is second to none!

http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/default.asp

[rambling]

Check out courses run by Honda Big Wing Chiang Mai. https://www.facebook.com/HondaBigWingChiangmai

I learned with Honda Bangkok and I'm very happy with the level of instruction, practice and end result. I started as a complete noob with zero riding skills and got to being comfortable on my CB500F in Bangkok and on the highways. You don't really need to know Thai to benefit from their courses. If you don't own a Honda bike you can rent one from them for the day/course.

In the rain just go easy on everything: accelerating, breaking, speed and leaning. It'll come with practice.

[brfsa2]

From what you wrote, I think you need to learn first "Couter-stearing"

There are plenty of youtube videos, get that mastered, it's like a foundation.

[wantan]

"Like I say, I have no problem driving anywhere here, I normally drive a 4x4 Toyota and would not flinch at running over a Dog / Cat / Thai idiot on a motorbike, but when you get on a bike here the fear of meeting up with a retard ruins the ride."

I would like to assume you somehow dont mean what you wrote here. Stay safe and good luck out there on your bike. And try to respect everyones life the same as if it is yours or your sons/daughters. And if the street is wet just slow down

[Poppy Dave]

Albert,

I'm an ex- Western Australian Police motorcyclist (Pursuit Qualified since 1979) and have been riding bikes for the past 50 years, started when I was 15 1/2 and still riding and I'm now 66. I ride a Honda ST1300.

I will be coming over to Thailand in January, for 6 weeks (wife's Thai), but will be mainly in Bangkok area, MAYBE spending a few days up Chiang Mai, not sure at this time. If we are, I'm happy to meet up somewhere and share some knowhow.

A big part of riding a bike is confidence, good brakes and good tyres.

Our first day on the Pursuit Course involved riding round a large parking area and doing the most ridiculous things............. sitting side-saddle, kneeling then standing on the saddle (a lot fitter and not so creaky then though) all whilst travelling at slowish speed. Then doing a largish circle, gradually getting smaller and smaller, as confidence built up, until we had the bike laid hard over and were scrapping the foot rests.

Another lesson (the 'Speed-weave') was to set up witches-hats at about 10 to 15 metre intervals (not too sure on spacing as the locations were ready marked), then weave through them as fast as you feel safe to do so, at the end, turn and ride in a STRAIGHT line back to the far end again as fast as you can, turn and start over. Once you've done this numerous time, you start getting faster and faster through the weaves (again building confidence in yourself and your bikes capabilities).

One of your questions was about 'U-turns', once you know how, they are very easy (remember we were doing this in traffic and on 300Kg machines, so if it worked on them it'll work on a 250). The trick is 2 fold.............. 1st, don't try to regulate your speed with the throttle (too twitchy and sensitive), keep your rev's up a bit (not too high though) and regulate your speed with the REAR brake (DON'T touch the front one otherwise you'll end up sitting in the dirt), practice this until you get the feel of the rev's and you can maintain control...................

2nd, DON'T look where your going (sounds stupid I know but if you look where your going to tend to get a bit unbalanced). Look where you want to end up........... practice this (again in a large open space) by riding past an object, say a witches hat, to you right (seeing as that is the way you will be doing a U-turn 99% of the time), then slow to your turning speed (regulating your speed with the REAR brake only), look over your right shoulder until you see the object and KEEP YOUR EYES ON THIS OBJECT as you turn, until you're heading in the direction you want. All of this sounds a bit complicated but if you break it down and practice one thing at a time, you'll see it's quite simple and VERY effective.

Another couple of tips: ALWAYS RIDE WITH YOUR HEADLIGHT ILLUMINATED AND FULLY PROTECTED.

When approaching a vehicle that is exiting a side road, watch for the vehicles wheels to turn. Wheels turning are a lot more noticeable than the actual vehicle's movement. To make sure this vehicle has seen you, commence an exaggerated weave, this makes you a LOT more noticeable than just riding straight (remember your on a motor bike and the average car driver is looking for things CAR SIZED and above)

I see someone has recommended the Honda riding courses, that would be a very good idea. I've heard positive feed-back about these courses, cover all aspects and knowledgeable instructors.

Hope this made sense and is of some help. Riding a motor bike is one of lifes true pleasures, don't let the idiots out there ruin the experience................... Treat EVERY OTHER road user as a raving lunatic and expect the unexpected.

Take care and happy riding,

Dave R

[kannot]

Albert no bike drives well in the rain unless you are at low speeds. Get a set of Pirelli Supercorsas and do a few track days. Learn about countersteering. A bike doesn't steer the same way as a car.

A 250 is not a very powerful bike but it's enough to learn on.

If you hit gravel accelerate don't brake.

If you hit gravel dont accelerate or brake, or youll end up highsiding it accelerating when you finally get some grip unless that power is very very gentle.

My last bike

Edited November 21, 2014 by kannot

[DogNo1]

Well, there is often great pleasure in riding a bike and it is a macho accomplishment to ride one well. The fears, however, are NOT irrational. We hear about grevious accidents on a weekly basis on TV. After a personal accident that broke all of the bones in my right leg and smashed my right shoulder, I was on crutches for two years. I think that people understand that it is risky to ride but feel sure that if they have an accident, it will be small and inconsequential since, after all, they are careful drivers. But that risk assessment is wrong since no matter how much gear you wear, it only takes one clumsy driver of a vehicle larger than yours to put you in a world of hurt. I don't ride bikes any more because badly broken limbs at my age take a long time to heal. I'll take my risks elsewhere, thank you!

[kannot]

Well, there is often great pleasure in riding a bike and it is a macho accomplishment to ride one well. The fears, however, are NOT irrational. We hear about grevious accidents on a weekly basis on TV. After a personal accident that broke all of the bones in my right leg and smashed my right shoulder, I was on crutches for two years. I think that people understand that it is risky to ride but feel sure that if they have an accident, it will be small and inconsequential since, after all, they are careful drivers. But that risk assessment is wrong since no matter how much gear you wear, it only takes one clumsy driver of a vehicle larger than yours to put you in a world of hurt. I don't ride bikes any more because badly broken limbs at my age take a long time to heal. I'll take my risks elsewhere, thank you!

I wont ride in Thailand, way too many idiots, doesnt matter how good you are.

But probably not good to mention it to the op.........sorry

[NeverSure]

Albert no bike drives well in the rain unless you are at low speeds. Get a set of Pirelli Supercorsas and do a few track days. Learn about countersteering. A bike doesn't steer the same way as a car.

A 250 is not a very powerful bike but it's enough to learn on.

I totally understand countersteering, that is not a problem, it is the slow speed REAL steering, the front brake when you grab it by accident, countersteering is fun, push not pull, like I said this bike will run at 140 no problem and is smooth like flying a plane. There is no way I would do track days, I just want to be able to ride the damn thing without looking like an idiot! It does not help here when you get up to a stoplight and you end up with about 50 <deleted> on bike within an inch of you......when you sometimes get that bit of a wobble when you pull away or the fat 40 stone 12 year old pig beast on a Honda 110 decides to wobble into you....

What is a "USA MSF idiot?"

A slow tight turn is made by lightly riding the rear brake while at the same time adding just enough power to keep you moving and upright. Adjust the amount of brake if you lean too far or begin to exit the turn before you wish to. Keep both feet on the pegs. Find it on YouTube.

You said you understand counter steering. I hope that's true. If not find it on YouTube.

You need to get at least 60% of your braking from your front tire. When you do that the bike's weight transfers onto the front tire giving you much more traction than if you apply the rear brake which will just skid.

Source - A USA certified motorcycle instructor. (Or idiot depending on what you meant.)

Edited November 21, 2014 by NeverSure

[Markaic]

Stay at home

[David48]

Being a motorcycle courier, I used to earn my living riding a bike and the OP has got some excellent replies.

I was enjoying reading the OP until this ...

"I have no problem driving anywhere here, I normally drive a 4x4 Toyota and would not flinch at running over a Dog / Cat / Thai idiot on a motorbike, but when you get on a bike here the fear of meeting up with a retard ruins the ride."

Interesting ...

.

[seedy]

Your comments on the other thread preclude - I would think - many posters willingness to assist you in this matter.

Along with calling people idiots in the subject line of this thread.

Twice riding bikes in 50 years - not exactly a firm basis for such opinions as you have expressed.

[RubberSideDown]

My basic skills were taught to me by a few of those 'USA MSF idiots', and I can manage to handle with ease the situations which you're irrationally afraid of- I'm not sure how someone with your lack of competence could be so judgmental toward those who possess and are able to teach (to students of all ages) the points of riding craft you obviously lack, but best of luck to you, as if you improve it will mean one less unskilled rider (Thai or otherwise) on the roads they share with me.

[Langsuan Man]

According to Google MSF stands for Motorcycle Safety Foundation

Since 1973, the MSF has set internationally recognized standards that promote the safety of motorcyclists with rider education courses, operator licensing tests, and public information programs. The MSF works with the federal government, state agencies, the military and others to offer training for all skill levels so riders may enjoy a lifetime of safe, responsible motorcycling. The MSF is a not-for-profit organization sponsored by BMW, BRP, Ducati, Harley-Davidson, Honda, Kawasaki, KTM, Piaggio, Suzuki, Triumph, Victory and Yamaha.

source: http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2/3316/Motorcycle-Article/MSF-Quick-Tips-for-Riders.aspx

But I guess US MSF certification is not good enough for the OP since he only wants: Qualified" Western / Brits/ Aussies or similar to teach him what he doesn't know but is experienced enough to know that he doesn't want anyone from the USA.. Guess he feels that US Motorcyclist drive on the wrong side of the road so they turn differently and cannot teach........

[bigjules007]

I've been riding big bikes for years and i have also passed my Advanced Riding test, the best bit of advice i was ever given by the police instructor in regards to going round corners as fast and tight as possible is to look as far as you can round the corner you are negotiating, counter steering works yes but to be honest touching the back brake mid corner will correct your line anyway. Obviously do'nt stomp on the brake, its more of a feathering motion, but as a few people have stated already, the only way you get better is to practice, preferrably when no ones around.

In regards to riding in the wet, i dont really change my riding style at all (im very confident of my pilot tyres), i think this is the mistake alot of people make when they ride in the wet, dont ride more gingerly and upright because you will reduce the traction on the road, ride normally and relaxed, again dont stomp on the brakes and you will find the bike will pretty much behave the same way in the wet as it does in the dry, obviously if your new to riding in the wet then slow down a bit but like i said before try not to change your riding style.

Hope this helps

[ll2]

Stay at home

you stay at home!

who t f are you saying this?

[ll2]

just experience and experience. it is the key. Also always wear proper gear which give you more confidence.

I learned riding by myself and received no help.

But, read some literature about dynamics of a motorcycle and riding and attend training courses such as Hondas. These will make your learning curve faster and the need of long years of experience a bit less.

Moreover, if your bike has an ABS, it will not be sliding under braking and you will not be losing front end easily. and ABS will prevent all the problems you mentioned and make you safer at places you have less confidence such as wet, gravel etc.

Try to get a bike with ABS if possible. it is a great safety net for motorcyclists and especially for beginners which IMO has to be mandatory at all bikes. cbr250r have ABS version too.

good luck.

[Tonto21]

‘Albert’

I could help you, no problem and your right about slow riding it takes a competent rider to control a slow moving bike, more so on a lose surface, anyone can open the throttle, the bike will be more stable at speed, un-fortunately not the rider in a lot of cases.

As said I’m happy to help, where are you? PM me if you wish.