You, The Foreigner.....

[GoodHeart]

calling "strangers" by a generic term is fine,(asian, indian, white, black, etc.). however, once you have been introduced, this would no longer be acceptable. being called a "farang" by those who know you, IS , insulting.

Precisely. To wit: it objectifies you- degrading you to the status of a mere object.

[Donz]

calling "strangers" by a generic term is fine,(asian, indian, white, black, etc.). however, once you have been introduced, this would no longer be acceptable. being called a "farang" by those who know you, IS , insulting.

Precisely. To wit: it objectifies you- degrading you to the status of a mere object.

Well if it really bugs you Thais calling a farang a farang then maybe your just uptight

[thaihome]

calling "strangers" by a generic term is fine,(asian, indian, white, black, etc.). however, once you have been introduced, this would no longer be acceptable. being called a "farang" by those who know you, IS , insulting.

Precisely. To wit: it objectifies you- degrading you to the status of a mere object.

Well, as someone said earlier, it is very common in Thai for groups or individuals to be referred to as an object, i.e., sister, brother, aunt, or even farang. I rarely hear my wife use her sisters’ names, even when speaking directly to them, she calls them big sister or small sister.

Similar to other threads on irritating things about Thais, this is a case of someone projecting their cultural upbringing [about being objectified] against another culture and being offended.

Waste of time in IMHO, but people are welcome to continue exerting energy getting insulted.

TH

[Plus]

I know lots of people who DON'T call me a farang, and they are all Thai. I know people who teach their children not to call me a farang.

Thais calling a farang a farang

If all they can see is "farang", it's fine. But if they can't learn/refuse to recognise anything else in my, or anybody else's, personality, than they are either stupid, or they don't value all your other traits at all, in this case it's insulting. It denigrates the relationships. Probably there was no relationships in the first place.

If I give fruit brought from upcountry to my neighobours, help them to set TV channels, fix their computer, teach their kids to fly kites, I expect a bit more recognition than "farang", not in the context of neighbourly relations anyway.

It's similar to what a women that have moved in with you feels when you introduce her as "just a friend".

Edited August 16, 2006 by Plus

[Donz]

I know lots of people who DON'T call me a farang, and they are all Thai. I know people who teach their children not to call me a farang.

Thais calling a farang a farang

If all they can see is "farang", it's fine. But if they can't learn/refuse to recognise anything else in my, or anybody else's, personality, than they are either stupid, or they don't value all your other traits at all, in this case it's insulting. It denigrates the relationships. Probably there was no relationships in the first place.

If I give fruit brought from upcountry to my neighobours, help them to set TV channels, fix their computer, teach their kids to fly kites, I expect a bit more recognition than "farang", not in the context of neighbourly relations anyway.

It's similar to what a women that have moved in with you feels when you introduce her as "just a friend".

If you let something so small bug you so much then so be it.

[meemiathai]

meemiathai,

"gwei lo" does indeed mean "ghost man", but it is just an expression to describe caucasion looking people.

The word "farang" has got nothing to do with being a foreigner or not at all. You can be thai and still be a "farang". It is simply how you look like that counts. ie. Caucasion looking.

Therefore

gwei lo = farang

Obviously the term comes fromthe pasty English sailors . . . But,you will also not hear people in an office or in a group of people you know calling you gweilo if they know your name.

Where this term comes from is not important. I don't really know.

It is how it is used that matters. It is what exactly is in the mind of the person who is using it that is important. I, as a native cantonese speaker have explained already. And I am very sensitive to how people use the language. It is up to you to believe or not.

But,you will also not hear people in an office or in a group of people you know calling you gweilo if they know your name.

That is because they know you don't like it. Edited August 16, 2006 by meemiathai

[Sing_Sling]

That is because they know you don't like it.

BINGO! Xie Xie meemiathai

[meemiathai]

That is because they know you don't like it.

BINGO! Xie Xie meemiathai

bu yung ke qi

[meemiathai]

I know lots of people who DON'T call me a farang, and they are all Thai. I know people who teach their children not to call me a farang.

Thais calling a farang a farang

If all they can see is "farang", it's fine. But if they can't learn/refuse to recognise anything else in my, or anybody else's, personality, than they are either stupid, or they don't value all your other traits at all, in this case it's insulting. It denigrates the relationships. Probably there was no relationships in the first place.

If I give fruit brought from upcountry to my neighobours, help them to set TV channels, fix their computer, teach their kids to fly kites, I expect a bit more recognition than "farang", not in the context of neighbourly relations anyway.

It's similar to what a women that have moved in with you feels when you introduce her as "just a friend".

So you are teaching thais how to speak thai? How to use thai words?

Since when is the use of a language of a country is to be determined by another country's people?

Don't you feel yourself being too arogant? When the thais tell you that the thai they are speaking is not impolite, then IT IS NOT!!!

Unbelievable!!

[GoodHeart]

once you have been introduced, this would no longer be acceptable. being called a "farang" by those who know you, IS , insulting.

Precisely. To wit: it objectifies you- degrading you to the status of a mere object.

Well if it really bugs you Thais calling a farang a farang then maybe your just uptight

Apparently, my point went right over your head, Donz. I have no problem being called a farang when I am called such by Thais i do not know. And no problem if it's Thais I do know who may be making reference to me amongst their friends who know me not.

But, if i am working with, living amongst, or married into a Thai family and still the farang I may indeed be an object.

[Plus]

I know lots of people who DON'T call me a farang, and they are all Thai. I know people who teach their children not to call me a farang.

Thais calling a farang a farang

If all they can see is "farang", it's fine. But if they can't learn/refuse to recognise anything else in my, or anybody else's, personality, than they are either stupid, or they don't value all your other traits at all, in this case it's insulting. It denigrates the relationships. Probably there was no relationships in the first place.

If I give fruit brought from upcountry to my neighobours, help them to set TV channels, fix their computer, teach their kids to fly kites, I expect a bit more recognition than "farang", not in the context of neighbourly relations anyway.

It's similar to what a women that have moved in with you feels when you introduce her as "just a friend".

So you are teaching thais how to speak thai? How to use thai words?

Since when is the use of a language of a country is to be determined by another country's people?

Don't you feel yourself being too arogant? When the thais tell you that the thai they are speaking is not impolite, then IT IS NOT!!!

Unbelievable!!

Where exactly did you see that I teach Thais how to address me? Have you got reading comprehension problem?

Donz, if living with your neighbours for a few years is a little thing that shouldn't bug you, fine. I guess it builds the charachter or something.

[Donz]

Who cares what they call you, as long as there not down grading you.

I think this is just lets complain about something thread

[GoodHeart]

Precisely. To wit: it objectifies you- degrading you to the status of a mere object.

Well, as someone said earlier, it is very common in Thai for groups or individuals to be referred to as an object, i.e., sister, brother, aunt, or even farang. I rarely hear my wife use her sisters’ names, even when speaking directly to them, she calls them big sister or small sister.

I disagree. To refer to someone as sister, brother, aunt, big sister or small sister places them in a peer or familial group AND indicates a relational aspect between the speaker and whom ever is being spoken of. That is not objectifying them- on the contrary it is inclusive in nature.

Using farang in such a familial context is implying the foreigner in our midst. Akin to being called an alien by your family. Would being addressed by your in-laws as the alien have a nice ring to your ear? For mine it wouldn't.

But lets give this argument the benefit of the doubt and assume we're arguing mere semantics here. And let's agree, too, that it is very common in Thai for groups or individuals to be referred to in the third person i.e., sister, brother, aunt. You noted that "you rarely hear [your] wife use her sisters’ names, even when speaking directly to them, she calls them big sister or small sister." Fine. We both agree on this point- it is common.

In that case, we could infer some acceptance in the group if we hear ourselves referred to as phuan, phuan khong khun, sam mii, faan, faan khong khun or the like.

Which begs this question- how does your wifes' sister refer to you when she address your wife?

[edd]

As Thais don’t seem to think that it is insulting to refer to us as farang, why don’t you refer to them as farangs when you are with your other ex-pat friends and they are within ear shot?

I promise you it really bugs them, I tried it, I had to explain that to us they are forigners.

I now get referred to by my name and NOT Farang.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

That is because they know you don't like it.

BINGO! Xie Xie meemiathai

bu yung ke qi

Dudes, forum rules state that all posts must be in English

[GoodHeart]

Who cares what they call you, as long as there not down grading you.

Doesn't get any more naive than that statment, Donz. You are quite a clever mun, aren't you?

It's called inference. We can infer whether they are "down grading" us or not by what they are callling us.

[Donz]

Who cares what they call you, as long as there not down grading you.

Doesn't get any more naive than that statment, Donz. You are quite a clever mun, aren't you?

It's called inference. We can infer whether they are "down grading" us or not by what they are callling us.

Well i guess i dont let things really bother me. I rather enjoy life then pick on little things and think why why why

[meemiathai]

Precisely. To wit: it objectifies you- degrading you to the status of a mere object.

Well, as someone said earlier, it is very common in Thai for groups or individuals to be referred to as an object, i.e., sister, brother, aunt, or even farang. I rarely hear my wife use her sisters’ names, even when speaking directly to them, she calls them big sister or small sister.

I disagree. To refer to someone as sister, brother, aunt, big sister or small sister places them in a peer or familial group AND indicates a relational aspect between the speaker and whom ever is being spoken of. That is not objectifying them- on the contrary it is inclusive in nature.

Using farang in such a familial context is implying the foreigner in our midst. Akin to being called an alien by your family. Would being addressed by your in-laws as the alien have a nice ring to your ear? For mine it wouldn't.

But lets give this argument the benefit of the doubt and assume we're arguing mere semantics here. And let's agree, too, that it is very common in Thai for groups or individuals to be referred to in the third person i.e., sister, brother, aunt. You noted that "you rarely hear [your] wife use her sisters’ names, even when speaking directly to them, she calls them big sister or small sister." Fine. We both agree on this point- it is common.

In that case, we could infer some acceptance in the group if we hear ourselves referred to as phuan, phuan khong khun, sam mii, faan, faan khong khun or the like.

Which begs this question- how does your wifes' sister refer to you when she address your wife?

Do you understand the word "farang"?

[meemiathai]

Who cares what they call you, as long as there not down grading you.

Doesn't get any more naive than that statment, Donz. You are quite a clever mun, aren't you?

It's called inference. We can infer whether they are "down grading" us or not by what they are callling us.

I agree that Donz is quite clever.

[soic]

Thanks Donz, You've changed my way of thinking. I'm starting a chapter of FA (Farangs Anonymous). I can agree to accept my Farang status, I mean it's just what they call us, and we shouldn't take offense if they refuse to recognize us as indivuals by name, even in familial circumstances.

Let's just take it all the way... My fellow Farangs, let's leave our names at the border. We are Farang and we are proud. My next reservation should be listed as 1 Deluxe Room, double occupancy, for Farang. Also, my car lease, insurance, and drivers license should be, yeah you guessed it... Farang. I'll call you Farang, you call me Farang, I'll call every Thai I see... Thai people. It will make the world a better place. Hotel and Restaurant reservations have just gotten easier. They don't need our names to do anything, we're farang, what's in a name? Aside from some nefarious farang that will use my reservation because they forgot to make one on their own. Come on, you farang know you'll do that. We will have some difficulty, but it should solve some problems too, I mean no more of those nasty visa things.... Farang visas for all. The cops shouldn't be a problem, they love looking at baht for ID. Can we possibly get a consensus? Shall we call our mixed children all by the label of Thairang or Farai? No need to give them names... Anybody get my drift? It's not about being referred to as a Farang by people we don't know, that's a perfectly fine description, I don't expect strangers to know my name. However, I don't feel it's acceptable to be called farang after a relationship has been established. I mean... would you want your children to call you ###### just because your mates do?

[Donz]

Thanks Donz, You've changed my way of thinking. I'm starting a chapter of FA (Farangs Anonymous). I can agree to accept my Farang status, I mean it's just what they call us, and we shouldn't take offense if they refuse to recognize us as indivuals by name, even in familial circumstances.

Let's just take it all the way... My fellow Farangs, let's leave our names at the border. We are Farang and we are proud. My next reservation should be listed as 1 Deluxe Room, double occupancy, for Farang. Also, my car lease, insurance, and drivers license should be, yeah you guessed it... Farang. I'll call you Farang, you call me Farang, I'll call every Thai I see... Thai people. It will make the world a better place. Hotel and Restaurant reservations have just gotten easier. They don't need our names to do anything, we're farang, what's in a name? Aside from some nefarious farang that will use my reservation because they forgot to make one on their own. Come on, you farang know you'll do that. We will have some difficulty, but it should solve some problems too, I mean no more of those nasty visa things.... Farang visas for all. The cops shouldn't be a problem, they love looking at baht for ID. Can we possibly get a consensus? Shall we call our mixed children all by the label of Thairang or Farai? No need to give them names... Anybody get my drift? It's not about being referred to as a Farang by people we don't know, that's a perfectly fine description, I don't expect strangers to know my name. However, I don't feel it's acceptable to be called farang after a relationship has been established. I mean... would you want your children to call you ###### just because your mates do?

And there are some posters who just take things too far

[soic]

Thanks Donz, You've changed my way of thinking. I'm starting a chapter of FA (Farangs Anonymous). I can agree to accept my Farang status, I mean it's just what they call us, and we shouldn't take offense if they refuse to recognize us as indivuals by name, even in familial circumstances.

Let's just take it all the way... My fellow Farangs, let's leave our names at the border. We are Farang and we are proud. My next reservation should be listed as 1 Deluxe Room, double occupancy, for Farang. Also, my car lease, insurance, and drivers license should be, yeah you guessed it... Farang. I'll call you Farang, you call me Farang, I'll call every Thai I see... Thai people. It will make the world a better place. Hotel and Restaurant reservations have just gotten easier. They don't need our names to do anything, we're farang, what's in a name? Aside from some nefarious farang that will use my reservation because they forgot to make one on their own. Come on, you farang know you'll do that. We will have some difficulty, but it should solve some problems too, I mean no more of those nasty visa things.... Farang visas for all. The cops shouldn't be a problem, they love looking at baht for ID. Can we possibly get a consensus? Shall we call our mixed children all by the label of Thairang or Farai? No need to give them names... Anybody get my drift? It's not about being referred to as a Farang by people we don't know, that's a perfectly fine description, I don't expect strangers to know my name. However, I don't feel it's acceptable to be called farang after a relationship has been established. I mean... would you want your children to call you ###### just because your mates do?

And there are some posters who just take things too far

Too far? I don't understand! Then it's ok to expect a restaurant host, or hotel receptionist to acknowledge our NAME, but families and friends shouldn't? I mean is it demeening to be called a Farang by a receptionist? We are farang... If we're going to simplify things and say that people are unreasonable for taking any offense what-so-ever at being called a farang. Then they shouldn't be offended if I refuse to be acknowledged by anything but Farang. Of course it's going to far... expecting friends and family members to use my name is quite appropriate. If our son or daughter married, would we call their spouse that Thai person, or farang all their lives? How would your wife feel if your mother called her "That Thai Lady you married!" and refused to call her by her name? That we have a right to take offense to... in public, I agree with you, it's a natural thing. You're right, there is such a thing as going too far; and family calling family farang, is too far. Sorry for going too far to make my point.

[Donz]

Thanks Donz, You've changed my way of thinking. I'm starting a chapter of FA (Farangs Anonymous). I can agree to accept my Farang status, I mean it's just what they call us, and we shouldn't take offense if they refuse to recognize us as indivuals by name, even in familial circumstances.

Let's just take it all the way... My fellow Farangs, let's leave our names at the border. We are Farang and we are proud. My next reservation should be listed as 1 Deluxe Room, double occupancy, for Farang. Also, my car lease, insurance, and drivers license should be, yeah you guessed it... Farang. I'll call you Farang, you call me Farang, I'll call every Thai I see... Thai people. It will make the world a better place. Hotel and Restaurant reservations have just gotten easier. They don't need our names to do anything, we're farang, what's in a name? Aside from some nefarious farang that will use my reservation because they forgot to make one on their own. Come on, you farang know you'll do that. We will have some difficulty, but it should solve some problems too, I mean no more of those nasty visa things.... Farang visas for all. The cops shouldn't be a problem, they love looking at baht for ID. Can we possibly get a consensus? Shall we call our mixed children all by the label of Thairang or Farai? No need to give them names... Anybody get my drift? It's not about being referred to as a Farang by people we don't know, that's a perfectly fine description, I don't expect strangers to know my name. However, I don't feel it's acceptable to be called farang after a relationship has been established. I mean... would you want your children to call you ###### just because your mates do?

And there are some posters who just take things too far

Too far? I don't understand! Then it's ok to expect a restaurant host, or hotel receptionist to acknowledge our NAME, but families and friends shouldn't? I mean is it demeening to be called a Farang by a receptionist? We are farang... If we're going to simplify things and say that people are unreasonable for taking any offense what-so-ever at being called a farang. Then they shouldn't be offended if I refuse to be acknowledged by anything but Farang. Of course it's going to far... expecting friends and family members to use my name is quite appropriate. If our son or daughter married, would we call their spouse that Thai person, or farang all their lives? How would your wife feel if your mother called her "That Thai Lady you married!" and refused to call her by her name? That we have a right to take offense to... in public, I agree with you, it's a natural thing. You're right, there is such a thing as going too far; and family calling family farang, is too far. Sorry for going too far to make my point.

I doubt your immediate family will call you farang, unless there joking around etc.

I was saying the take it too far about your son calling you a faran, and getting your insurance name etc chabged to Farang

Edited August 16, 2006 by Donz

[meadish_sweetball]

If you feel the whole thing is going too far, just start signing all your checks and personal correspondence with

Sincerely,

You-You Farang

[Ijustwannateach]

[soic]

That was the entire point I was trying to make. some people on here were alluding to the fact that at no time should a farang ever become bothered by being called a farang. A few of us were drawing the line at relationships and family, saying that family and friends should call us by our names. Others were saying that we shouldn't be offended unless we were being degraded. I wouldn't say degraded, I'd say disrespected.

I do go to extremes at times, but sometimes that's the only way to get a point across.

[Plus]

I'm losing the thread here. Thais that know me personally usually find better ways to address/refer to me than "farang". I swear I didn't make it up, and I swear I didn't force them.

Judging by other posters reports my situation is not unique either.

Take it or leave it.

Now, should it worry me if someone calls me a farang? At first not, but as time goes and the person calls me a farang when I'm expecting him/her to use more familiar/respectful words, than I make a judgement as to which way our relationship is going. Is it unnatural?

[meemiathai]

That was the entire point I was trying to make. some people on here were alluding to the fact that at no time should a farang ever become bothered by being called a farang. A few of us were drawing the line at relationships and family, saying that family and friends should call us by our names. Others were saying that we shouldn't be offended unless we were being degraded. I wouldn't say degraded, I'd say disrespected.

I do go to extremes at times, but sometimes that's the only way to get a point across.

So when your mother in law and the family first refer to you as farang, they were trying to disrespect you.

Then you corrected them by telling them that IN THAI LANGUAGE, to refer to a farang in a family as a farang is disrespectful.

IT IS NOT UP TO YOU THAI PEOPLE TO DECIDE HOW TO SPEAK YOUR OWN LANGUAGE APPROPRIATELY! IT IS WHAT ME THE FARANG LIKES OR DISLIKES THAT DETERMINES WHAT YOU CAN SPEAK IN YOUR LANGUAGES! BECAUSE ACCORDING TO MY FARANG CULTURE, WE DO NOT USE WORDS THAT WAY!

SO CHANGE YOUR THAI LANGUAGE TO SUIT MY FARANG CULTURE OR I AM GOING TO SHOW YOU SOME FARANG STYLE SACASM

[soic]

That was the entire point I was trying to make. some people on here were alluding to the fact that at no time should a farang ever become bothered by being called a farang. A few of us were drawing the line at relationships and family, saying that family and friends should call us by our names. Others were saying that we shouldn't be offended unless we were being degraded. I wouldn't say degraded, I'd say disrespected.

I do go to extremes at times, but sometimes that's the only way to get a point across.

So when your mother in law and the family first refer to you as farang, they were trying to disrespect you.

Then you corrected them by telling them that IN THAI LANGUAGE, to refer to a farang in a family as a farang is disrespectful.

IT IS NOT UP TO YOU THAI PEOPLE TO DECIDE HOW TO SPEAK YOUR OWN LANGUAGE APPROPRIATELY! IT IS WHAT ME THE FARANG LIKES OR DISLIKES THAT DETERMINES WHAT YOU CAN SPEAK IN YOUR LANGUAGES! BECAUSE ACCORDING TO MY FARANG CULTURE, WE DO NOT USE WORDS THAT WAY!

SO CHANGE YOUR THAI LANGUAGE TO SUIT MY FARANG CULTURE OR I AM GOING TO SHOW YOU SOME FARANG STYLE SACASM

I Like the Caps, it made me quake in my boots! I feel almost chastised. ANYWAY! When my Mother in Law and Sister in Law continued to address me as farang, they didn't know any better. I asked my Thai wife (she and I talk quite often) if she would talk to her Mother and Sister. I told her that when she and I were dating, and for a month or so after the wedding, the farang thing was kind of cute. I asked her if she would talk to her Mother and Sister and ask them to call me by my name. I told her that to be called farang now after so much time together, would be the same as me calling them Thai Ladies. I asked her to ask them to call me by my name.

Only in your world is sarcasm and vulgarity commonplace. For them to continue to call me farang, would have been the same as me asking everyone here to call you what I'm thinking at the moment, and that would be Disrespectful. Thanks for the instruction Mr. Ambassador of Good Will.

Edited August 17, 2006 by soic

[Noel]

I am not bothered by being referred to as farang by Thai who do not know me, but it does irritate if we have already been introduced and they know my name.

My Thai girlfriend will always refer to me by name when in Thai company; ever since we first met she has done so, without any prompting from me.

Also, when in the company of her Thai friends, they too refer to me by name as do her parents.

A while ago my girlfriend and her sister, who is slightly overweight, were talking and the sister referred to me as farang.

I later joined in the conversation, addressing my girlfriend.

Speaking in Thai, I deliberately asked my girlfriend something about ‘the fat Thai girl’.

Nothing was said at the time, but if looks could kill…

The next time I saw the sister, she seemed to make a big point of referring to me by name.

I know some of you will think I was being petty and rude, but as my girlfriend had already made it very clear that I did not appreciate being referred to as ‘farang’, I thought I was quite justified and will not hesitate in doing it again.

Flame away…