baboon Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 A while ago, my Mother booked a 2 week package tour of Thailand for the pair of us. The Thai guide was well educated, dealt with any problems swiftly and with tact, and spoke superb English.He did not appear too thrilled however to discover I lived in Thailand and could speak some Thai. Whilst always professional and approachable to me, his manner of speech started to get on my nerves. "This facility is for the Foreigners comfort." "Many of the Foreigners forget personal items in hotels." "You Foreigners who stay in Thailand..." "The Foreigner should understand........" Get what I mean? It really started to grate.I am never referred to as foreign by my Thai family and friends, so could this guy not give me a break? Do you think I have a point here or am just being bloody minded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Well I think he should have given you a break, but I have a feeling most of his clients are general tourists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donz Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Its abit hard to make judgement really without really knowing his level of english etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve w Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 probably just the way he has been taught to speak,does not know any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 If a man can make an impromptu joke in English and listeners find it funny, he must have an excellent command of the language, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbojangles Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Chill and don't take it personally. As others have said, it depends how he was taught etc. I used to get annoyed being called Farang this, Farang that but it doesn't bother me nowadays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donz Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 If a man can make an impromptu joke in English and listeners find it funny, he must have an excellent command of the language, surely? cracking a joke and speaking the language fluently is a totally different thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerryd Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Looking it over, I'm not sure how else he could have phrased it. Maybe: ""This facility is for the Tourist's comfort." "Many of the Tourists forget personal items in hotels." "You Tourists who stay in Thailand..." "The Tourists should understand........" Even if you live in the country, 99% of the people he deals with most likely are tourists/foreigners. I've found a lot of tour guides (not just in Thailand) have prepared "scripts" they have memorized. They learn to say certain things at certain times, both for the benefit of the tourist, and so the guide doesn't forget important items. I've seen guides get quite flustered when people interrupt them while they are reciting a certain "script", then have to start from the beginning again. (The last guide I had at the Cairo Museum was like that. I managed to stump her on a simple question when we were looking at Tut's exhibition. After that, I was pretty much on my own though, guide wise. ) Asking the guide to change the reference from "Foreigner" to something else would have probably given the poor guy fits, suddenly trying to memorize something new in the middle of the job ! I got a little short with one of my "friends" one night while at a friend's home. Her friends, whom I've known for a few months, kept referring to me as "farang", and my friend never said anything. Finally I made a point of standing up suddenly, looking at her and (in Thai) reminded her what my name is. I then walked out. She followed of course, all upset and apologizing. I just said good-bye and left. Now when I go to her place, or her friend's place, they refer to me by my name (at least the parts I understand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donz Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 SHould of slammed something on the ground while yelling "whats my name" then walked out for better effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Looking it over, I'm not sure how else he could have phrased it.Maybe: ""This facility is for the Tourist's comfort." "Many of the Tourists forget personal items in hotels." "You Tourists who stay in Thailand..." "The Tourists should understand........" Even if you live in the country, 99% of the people he deals with most likely are tourists/foreigners. I've found a lot of tour guides (not just in Thailand) have prepared "scripts" they have memorized. They learn to say certain things at certain times, both for the benefit of the tourist, and so the guide doesn't forget important items. I've seen guides get quite flustered when people interrupt them while they are reciting a certain "script", then have to start from the beginning again. (The last guide I had at the Cairo Museum was like that. I managed to stump her on a simple question when we were looking at Tut's exhibition. After that, I was pretty much on my own though, guide wise. ) Asking the guide to change the reference from "Foreigner" to something else would have probably given the poor guy fits, suddenly trying to memorize something new in the middle of the job ! I got a little short with one of my "friends" one night while at a friend's home. Her friends, whom I've known for a few months, kept referring to me as "farang", and my friend never said anything. Finally I made a point of standing up suddenly, looking at her and (in Thai) reminded her what my name is. I then walked out. She followed of course, all upset and apologizing. I just said good-bye and left. Now when I go to her place, or her friend's place, they refer to me by my name (at least the parts I understand). good post .... if the guy was doing his job and well .... then yes you are being oversensitive <to the OP> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Scripted is spot on Kerryd!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuky Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Scripted is spot on Kerryd!! Agreed... On the other hand, he may have been put off guard by having a "tourist" around that may know as much as him regarding the particular tourist destination. The "script" may well apply to tourists, but what if you knew something different? Or, he was annoyed that he was showing someone around that was possibly already familiar ie wasting his time? Nah, Kerryd is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 (edited) Scripted is spot on Kerryd!! Agreed... On the other hand, he may have been put off guard by having a "tourist" around that may know as much as him regarding the particular tourist destination. The "script" may well apply to tourists, but what if you knew something different? Or, he was annoyed that he was showing someone around that was possibly already familiar ie wasting his time? Nah, Kerryd is spot on. I want to point out now that at no time did I give him a wink and nudge "But of course we in the know understand that..." I would also like to say that on a tour of Moscow, our Guide referred to us as "Our friends from overseas," "Our Guests in Moscow" or "Visitors to Russia" etc...and her English was the same standard of our Thai guide. Edited August 4, 2006 by baboon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 A while ago, my Mother booked a 2 week package tour of Thailand for the pair of us.The Thai guide was well educated, dealt with any problems swiftly and with tact, and spoke superb English.He did not appear too thrilled however to discover I lived in Thailand and could speak some Thai. Whilst always professional and approachable to me, his manner of speech started to get on my nerves. "This facility is for the Foreigners comfort." "Many of the Foreigners forget personal items in hotels." "You Foreigners who stay in Thailand..." "The Foreigner should understand........" Get what I mean? It really started to grate.I am never referred to as foreign by my Thai family and friends, so could this guy not give me a break? Do you think I have a point here or am just being bloody minded? Where are you from? If you are not from Thailand then you are a foreigner. Something to get used to, I've been here 17 years and I am still my husband's foreign wife. I doubt he meant anything by it but, from the sounds of it, was taught a very formal speech to use and used only that. I wouldn't take it any more personally than the taxi drivers who yell "you you" at you when you walk by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totster Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Scripted is spot on Kerryd!! Agreed... On the other hand, he may have been put off guard by having a "tourist" around that may know as much as him regarding the particular tourist destination. The "script" may well apply to tourists, but what if you knew something different? Or, he was annoyed that he was showing someone around that was possibly already familiar ie wasting his time? Nah, Kerryd is spot on. Has anyone considered the possibility that the guide may not have been able to say the word "tourist" ? Anyway...letting a small thing (even if it is a thing) like that annoy you is just plain stupid... oh, and totally oversensitive. totster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 I think he sees foreigners as different species from Thais and addresses them accordingly. It bothers only people who realise that all humans are essentially the same. Tourists in that presentation could have been Thai, he just wouldn't call them foreigners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 Fair play, sbk! Maybe I am just becoming a bad tempered git. Give me another 10 years, light the blue touchpaper and move away quickly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 I think he sees foreigners as different species from Thais and addresses them accordingly. It bothers only people who realise that all humans are essentially the same. Tourists in that presentation could have been Thai, he just wouldn't call them foreigners. right ... he'd be speaking Thai to them. very different wording ... but if you think in Thai he'd be using foriegner or khon tang phrateet. I normally agree with you Plus ... but people aren't all the same. I doubt a tourist guide that speaks English would ever have Thai customers. Customers of a guide are certainly not the same as other people. Threy are tourists! (of the highest order!) I am sure in the same situation I would be a bit uncomfortable as I don't see myself as a tourist ... but in those situations I would BE a tourist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_hippo Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 (edited) The tour guide had probably memorised the 'script' and although you say his English was good, he possibly does not have the capability to ad-lib. The Thais learn English by rote. Ask English teachers what their pet hate is and I think most will say "I am fine, thank you and how are you?" said in a robotic voice. The guide was possibly following the script blindly. I see in your first post that you said 'whilst' so can I assume that you are British? Please remember that we British are always British and never foreigners Edited August 4, 2006 by mr_hippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 "This facility is for the Foreigners comfort.""Many of the Foreigners forget personal items in hotels." "You Foreigners who stay in Thailand..." "The Foreigner should understand........" Yes, a bit annoying and probably due to insufficient training. The first sentence could show a jealousy as foreigners get better comfort or he was proud that foreigners could be offered such. Forgetting personal items... well he must have experienced that and helped a couple of times to retrieve such, perhaps during his free time. Maybe I would have stated, that I NEVER forget anything and called him a few hours later asking him for help as I left both my artificial legs, or my glass eyes in the hotel room. Perhaps would have been a lesson. I am not trying to make a joke here or a deep psychological analysis, but as said training is missing and a lack of sensitivity is there that can make you feel uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sramkok-pratum Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 (edited) I don't think he really mean to get on your nerve. english is my second language too so i totally understand him why he used this word "Foreigners" cause in thai is a polite word. He properly thinks, this is the best and professional way to say it.. teach him how to say i bet he wants to learn anything to make his career better. Edited August 4, 2006 by sramkok-pratum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 (edited) He'd be saying same things in Thai, JD: "Don't forget your stuff", "Here, in Isan, they do things differently from Bangkok" and so on. I've been on a few Thai tours, they are all the same. The cultural stereotypes are not always true - not all foreigners put their feet up on the table, not all foreigners are rude to their elders. He just sees and stresses differences between people, not similarities. No big deal, but the opportunity lost. It's like that Bowornsak Uwanno's article in BP - when he implied that westerners don't love their children and children don't love their parents. It's ignorance, displayed in public. Edited August 4, 2006 by Plus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galong Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Scripted is spot on Kerryd!! Call him a Lemming... maybe even write it down for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZONE Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 The tour guide had probably memorised the 'script' and although you say his English was good, he possibly does not have the capability to ad-lib. The Thais learn English by rote. Ask English teachers what their pet hate is and I think most will say "I am fine, thank you and how are you?" said in a robotic voice. The guide was possibly following the script blindly.I see in your first post that you said 'whilst' so can I assume that you are British? Please remember that we British are always British and never foreigners What were you trying to say? I couldn't understand you english! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 A while ago, my Mother booked a 2 week package tour of Thailand for the pair of us.The Thai guide was well educated, dealt with any problems swiftly and with tact, and spoke superb English.He did not appear too thrilled however to discover I lived in Thailand and could speak some Thai. Whilst always professional and approachable to me, his manner of speech started to get on my nerves. "This facility is for the Foreigners comfort." "Many of the Foreigners forget personal items in hotels." "You Foreigners who stay in Thailand..." "The Foreigner should understand........" Get what I mean? It really started to grate.I am never referred to as foreign by my Thai family and friends, so could this guy not give me a break? Do you think I have a point here or am just being bloody minded? It's the "farang" thing again. Just how amazing! Westerners are so sensitive being called a foreigner! I just don't see where the problem is. Maybe I can understand a bit(I'm half Scottish) but as I say always, it is a culture thing. What do you think, would he be so stupid as to repeat something over and over again if he knew you didn't like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totster Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 I'm half Scottish Ah well... no ones perfect... totster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 SHould of slammed something on the ground while yelling "whats my name" then walked out for better effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 A while ago, my Mother booked a 2 week package tour of Thailand for the pair of us. The Thai guide was well educated, dealt with any problems swiftly and with tact, and spoke superb English.He did not appear too thrilled however to discover I lived in Thailand and could speak some Thai. Whilst always professional and approachable to me, his manner of speech started to get on my nerves. "This facility is for the Foreigners comfort." "Many of the Foreigners forget personal items in hotels." "You Foreigners who stay in Thailand..." "The Foreigner should understand........" Get what I mean? It really started to grate.I am never referred to as foreign by my Thai family and friends, so could this guy not give me a break? Do you think I have a point here or am just being bloody minded? Where are you from? If you are not from Thailand then you are a foreigner. Something to get used to, I've been here 17 years and I am still my husband's foreign wife. I doubt he meant anything by it but, from the sounds of it, was taught a very formal speech to use and used only that. I wouldn't take it any more personally than the taxi drivers who yell "you you" at you when you walk by I was borned, grew up here in HK and have lived for 37 years. And my colleagues still call me "gwei lo" the same word for "farang" in thai. To most I am still a foreigner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 "This facility is for the Foreigners comfort.""Many of the Foreigners forget personal items in hotels." "You Foreigners who stay in Thailand..." "The Foreigner should understand........" English is my second language. If you ask me to read the above, I'll tell you I really wouldn't be able to tell that there is a problem. At least not until people start discussing it. So I hope you english speaking people, please, don't be that fussy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted August 5, 2006 Author Share Posted August 5, 2006 Some great replies there, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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