US: Cleveland police shoot dead boy, 12, carrying fake gun

[KarenBravo]

Given a four-year-old might have shot a three-year-old in the mouth, in the US, nothing that involves a shooting in that country can surprise me. And still the gun lobby will have its way.

Apparently, we're called Socialists..........

[Wat dee]

there is no minimum age limit to firing a lethal weapon at someone as long as youre able to pull the trigger. He was told to put his hands up but went to his waistband to draw the weapon. He must have known it was a fake so id say he was looking for a darwin award ...12yrs old is old enough to know what he was doing.

A 12 year old is not old enough to be aware of the consequences of his actions.

Sorry but I don't agree with you. A well brought up and sensible kid should have known that a fatal outcome was at least a possibility. Taking on the police with a toy gun was not a sensible course of action. Then again simply owning a fake gun in the USA or anywhere for that matter is also not very sensible.

As a parent I brought my kids up with the knowledge that cooperating with the police is the sensible option...and that having fake real looking guns is just stupid. Particularly in public spaces and especially if you could possibly be percieved as a threat to law enforcement officers.

Sorry but you are full of it. When is the last time you've been around 12 year old?

[Wat dee]

Given a four-year-old might have shot a three-year-old in the mouth, in the US, nothing that involves a shooting in that country can surprise me. And still the gun lobby will have its way.

Apparently, we're called Socialists..........

In Soviet Union everybody could read,had jobs and full stomach. It wasn't all bad.

[SNGLIFE]

To those that think we should "shoot to maim", you know nothing. You stand 7 ft. in front of me, average distance for a gunfight, and go for your weapon while I go for mine and see what you hit while "shooting to maim".

Your incompetent understanding of the facts in this case probably confirms you were indeed a cop. The FACTS of the case were that the cops responded to a call. So, the distance was whatever the cops made it after they arrived. The call stated there was a gun involved. The cops knew and saw the gun as they maneuvered after arriving on the scene.

Hopefully, you are no longer a cop because you are a great example of yet another sorry, ill-equipped cop with piss-poor judgement. (!)

[sgtsabai]

When I was 12, I was already hunting. I knew weapons and knew to never, ever point even a toy at somebody. Same with my son. Same with my Thai wife's son, minus the hunting, nothing here to hunt. Without repeating, go back and read my post. You know nothing. You've never been in a cops shoes, never been in combat. Today's militarized police are out of control, but this appears to be a tragic but justified shooting. Not laying all the blame on the kid, but he should have known better and most Black kids grow up knowing the cops are NOT their friends. BTW, if you are ever up in the Udon/Nong Khai area I would really, really love to have a little friendly discussion about your comment about our troops. USMC Sgt-Vietnam 1966/67 and still good to go. Certified/Commissioned New Mexico Law Enforcement officer, graduated NM Law Enforcement Academy 1984.

[sgtsabai]

Were you there, you ever been in a "gun involved" situation? I have, more than once and thankfully I never had to squeeze the trigger. You know nothing. The kid pulled the gun, it doesn't matter 7 ft. or 27 ft. How many other people were there and in danger, was there cover or concealment? There are lots of unanswered questions but the kid pulled the gun, one does not wait to get shot, ah duh. Had he not pulled the gun, he would be alive right now. There are always and always will be what if's. Would I have handled it differently, possibly, but I wasn't there so I don't know and neither were you.

[wabothai]

Who gave the boy the gun in the first place?

Parents here are too blame for the tragic loss of their son and not the police.

Take the f... toy guns out of the market!!!! They are no toys, they teach the young ones the wrong thing. The powerful NRA (national rifle association) will always use the excuse that everybody has the right to defend himself. Double hogwash.

most other western countries don't have that problem.

Not many people walking around with or glove compartment conceiled guns. In the US it is very normal.

[wabothai]

In a Thai train a little boy pulled his real looking toy gun on me.

i addressed his watching mother. The boy started crying and the mother's facial expression was to kill me. Do i need to say more?

[Jim walker]

The American police have a bit of a reputation for shoot to kill policy do they not know criminals have legs that can be shot and this can prevent running so far but to shoot a 12 year old child twice in the stomach absolutely shocking, do the fake guns not have colour markings on the barrel to show that it’s a child’s toy or had the child rattled off a dozen shots at them first with his toy and winged one of the officers, time for some more riots I think to curb the trigger happy cops, once they ban all guns in US then the police won’t need them either happy days all round.

[maidee]

normaly those toy guns have a orange cap on

sounds like an episode from tv, where same happend

[sgtsabai]

Please go back and read mine and other posts about shooting to maim. We are talking about real life, not the movies. While the militarized cops in the US are out of control, this appears on what evidence we have here to be a tragic, but justifiable shooting. No, the replica did not have color markings and you would not know it from a real gun. Guns will never be banned in the US. Too bad insanity is so prevalent these days.

[cup-O-coffee]

Given a four-year-old might have shot a three-year-old in the mouth, in the US, nothing that involves a shooting in that country can surprise me. And still the gun lobby will have its way.

Right to eat = obesity and cardiac related deaths and injuries

Right to give children small toys = choke hazards and deaths

Right to drive = traffic related fatalities and injuries

Right to drink alcohol = alcohol fueled deaths and injuries

Right to build = construction related deaths and injuries

Right to enjoy water related activities = water related deaths and injuires

Right to engage in sports = sports related deaths and injuries

Right to endeavor towards advancement of science and space travel = deaths and injuries

Right to defend freedoms = deaths and injuries

Right to bear arms = gun related deaths and injuries

The logic at which you are applying to the right to bear arms, and the lack of a fair and objective view towards the factors involved in death and injury, would compel me to see all those examples above as evil. You are only looking at the deaths and injury, and simply ignore the things that do NOT happen, which can be measured in statistics.

In ALL of those categories above, more good things happen to mankind, and a LOT of bad things do not happen because of those rights. It is the small percentage of Darwinian award winners that you, instead, choose to focus on, as well as the very very few truly regrettable accidents.

The fact is, no matter what freedoms people enjoy... any at all, there will always (always) be a relatively small percentage who abuse them. Name the reasons for abuse, but please please do not defend those reasons, or make laws that make it illegal to point out those reasons: stupidity, anger issues, hatred, mental impairment, etc. etc.

To suggest that citizens should not be allowed to bear arms simply because deaths and injury occur from them owning arms, is to make the same accusation about all those other examples I gave, and many more.

I guess my main point is that guns are here to stay, and they are not going to go away any time soon. At least try to focus on logic and not on the Darwinian award winners as support to your arguments, or what "surprises" you.

Re spect

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[CMNightRider]

To those that think we should "shoot to maim", you know nothing. You stand 7 ft. in front of me, average distance for a gunfight, and go for your weapon while I go for mine and see what you hit while "shooting to maim".

Your incompetent understanding of the facts in this case probably confirms you were indeed a cop. The FACTS of the case were that the cops responded to a call. So, the distance was whatever the cops made it after they arrived. The call stated there was a gun involved. The cops knew and saw the gun as they maneuvered after arriving on the scene.

Hopefully, you are no longer a cop because you are a great example of yet another sorry, ill-equipped cop with piss-poor judgement. (!)

"Incompetent and piss-poor judgement?" Wow, a little judgemental I'd say. What would you have done, shoot the gun out of the kids hand like in the movies?

[Jim walker]

As someone said earlier Too bad insanity is so prevalent these days. And that a cop in the US cant distinguish between an adult and a child possibly specks they need and not guns, or was it the childs 5 o clock shadow that gave his age away, oh no of course he was black shame on America.

[CMNightRider]

Please go back and read mine and other posts about shooting to maim. We are talking about real life, not the movies. While the militarized cops in the US are out of control, this appears on what evidence we have here to be a tragic, but justifiable shooting. No, the replica did not have color markings and you would not know it from a real gun. Guns will never be banned in the US. Too bad insanity is so prevalent these days.

Where do you get this idea about "militarised cops in the U.S.?" You sound like that other posted who keeps talking about "Dirty Harry" cops, and the "fringe right" whatever that's supposed to mean. I too was in the Marine Corps. I can't recall ever meeting a Marine or former Marine, who had a liberal bone is his body. What happened to you?

[Scully]

Given a four-year-old might have shot a three-year-old in the mouth, in the US, nothing that involves a shooting in that country can surprise me. And still the gun lobby will have its way.

Apparently, we're called Socialists..........

Being from the UK I have learnt that I too am a socialist. Who do socialist's vote for?.

[Publicus]

Easy to blame the police but I blame the parents.

In this day and age what responsible parent would let their child go out waving around scaring people.

I doubt the media will be "brave" enough to question the parents regarding their sons actions.

All the attention will be on the Policeman.

Well said. Parents, teachers, community leaders, preachers, etc.

I think these comments say it all...

It says "“His mother is devastated,” Mr. Kucharski said. “We’d love to have the prayers of the community right now.” http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/us/boy-12-dies-after-being-shot-by-cleveland-police-officer.html

So I'm guessing it was single parent family, no father figure as is the case with so many African-American children. Left on his own to go where he likes, do what he wanted From what I've read, schools in Cleveland don't give a damn and community leaders are non existent or have their own agenda.

Very sad, but I would imagine lots of young African-Americans get killed usually by other African-Americans.

'The cops know what they're doing, he doesn't': Angry father speaks out after his 12-year-old son was shot dead by cops after he was spotted with BB gun in play park

The devastated father of a 12-year-old boy who was shot dead by Cleveland police when he allegedly pulled out a BB gun from his waistband has condemned the officers for their actions.

Gregory Henderson, whose son, Tamir Rice, passed away in hospital on Sunday, said the youngster had his whole life ahead of him when he was gunned down outside Cudell Recreation Center.

Wiping away tears, he said: 'Who would've thought he would go so soon? He had his whole life ahead. To be 12 years old, he doesn't know what he's doing. Police, they know what they're doing.'

He added that he was still shocked at the death of his 'superhero', whom he described as a keen basketball player who was tall for his size, polite and 'very artistic'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2846824/The-cops-know-doing-doesn-t-Father-s-grief-12-year-old-son-shot-dead-Cleveland-police-waving-BB-gun-playground.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

[cup-O-coffee]

It says "“His mother is devastated,” Mr. Kucharski said. “We’d love to have the prayers of the community right now.” http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/us/boy-12-dies-after-being-shot-by-cleveland-police-officer.html

So I'm guessing it was single parent family, no father figure as is the case with so many African-American children. Left on his own to go where he likes, do what he wanted From what I've read, schools in Cleveland don't give a damn and community leaders are non existent or have their own agenda.

Very sad, but I would imagine lots of young African-Americans get killed usually by other African-Americans.

'The cops know what they're doing, he doesn't': Angry father speaks out after his 12-year-old son was shot dead by cops after he was spotted with BB gun in play park

The devastated father of a 12-year-old boy who was shot dead by Cleveland police when he allegedly pulled out a BB gun from his waistband has condemned the officers for their actions.

Gregory Henderson, whose son, Tamir Rice, passed away in hospital on Sunday, said the youngster had his whole life ahead of him when he was gunned down outside Cudell Recreation Center.

Wiping away tears, he said: 'Who would've thought he would go so soon? He had his whole life ahead. To be 12 years old, he doesn't know what he's doing. Police, they know what they're doing.'

He added that he was still shocked at the death of his 'superhero', whom he described as a keen basketball player who was tall for his size, polite and 'very artistic'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2846824/The-cops-know-doing-doesn-t-Father-s-grief-12-year-old-son-shot-dead-Cleveland-police-waving-BB-gun-playground.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Well, what did you expect this kind of father to say, ...that he felt responsible for his son's death, because he allowed him to behave this way?

Wiping away tears, he said: 'Who would've thought he would go so soon?

Answer: Apparently not, you idiot! Not one thought about your son going away so soon. Not even a clue when you knew he liked brandishing realistic semi-automatic BB guns in the faces of younger kids in a public play area. No sir. Who would've thought?

I am really sickened by these responses. I mean, how much more can the intelligent public take. Are these people for real? They manage to not get the coverage of what is really going on in these black communities, and that suits them well, but what now...? ...Do they next really expect the general public to ignore the behavior of their little babies when they are pumped up on life, and out in society and trampling it under foot of entitlement?

Half these kids are punks, and a lot more have a real bad attitude towards white people and any other race, and it saddens me that the media blocks full coverage of their pranks and violence, and then everyone acts surprised when any number of them gets on the receiving end of poor choices.

In censoring media coverage of the truth, and in not addressing the truth, and moreover calling the truth racism, these people and the media are committing suicide on their credibility. No one wants it to be this way, but intelligent people can only have so much BS crammed down their throats before they give up trying anymore.

Publishing the truth can bring about healing and make amends. Not publishing the truth makes the dam weaken by the day in holding it back. A lot of innocents will die unnecessarily because of this.

Edited November 24, 2014 by cup-O-coffee

[BritManToo]

The cops did the right thing. They gave instructions to the boy and he refused to obey.

What if the gun was real and another child was killed?

Children generally have toy guns..

The assumption of any police in this situation should be, it's a toy.

Note to KB,

Children often don't do as their told, that isn't a valid reason to kill them.

Edited November 24, 2014 by BritManToo

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[NanLaew]

The cops did the right thing. They gave instructions to the boy and he refused to obey.

What if the gun was real and another child was killed?

Children generally have toy guns..

The assumption of any police in this situation should be, it's a toy.

Note to KB,

Children often don't do as their told, that isn't a valid reason to kill them.

The cops should assume what now? Where? Britain maybe?

With the high percentage of fatalities by gunfire occurring in their schools and college campuses, I think the average US cop assumes otherwise.

[Publicus]

The 911 call tape, already released, has a member of the public claiming the boy has been scaring people by pointing the gun at them, Thus the 911 call to the police.

Every news report I've read said the 911 paranoid intruder caller said it "could be a fake gun" but that he thought it would be wise for the police to find out. I haven't heard the whole tape but I'd wonder whether what the post "has" squares up with all the news reports that mention the 911 call and its contents to include the police dispatcher communication to officers.

The reports go on to say the two police officers said neither got the advisory qualifier although the police dispatcher said the advisory was specifically given to the two officers involved.in the communication.

So something needs to be checked out here.

I'd also like to know more about the instigator 911 caller so I might get a better idea of his concerns, purposes, thinking and whether he knew the 12 year old kid or might have known of him. The presumably public spirited caller is in the middle of a highly visible child homicide initiated by his call so he's in a sense fair game too.

[connda]

The result of a sick society that will not or cannot discourage or prohibit the use off and the carrying of firearms, thus society is on the whole living on a razor edge of fear.

Police offices who were or are perhaps also living on the razor edge of fear,indeed American society it seems has spawned an evil violence motivated society.

To have to make a decision as to whether to shoot or talk with a 12 year old boy should not be a difficult decision to make.

You talk, you do not shoot, you call for backup trained to deal with such a situation.

So yet again we are likely to see yet more outbreaks of wanton needless violence, riots the destruction of both private and public property and general civil disorder. Mad Max is becoming a reality as opposed to fiction I fear in the U .S .

...And take away those dangerous, pointy knives too (and the forks, perhaps the spoons too - they could put an eye out).

[Publicus]

It says "“His mother is devastated,” Mr. Kucharski said. “We’d love to have the prayers of the community right now.” http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/us/boy-12-dies-after-being-shot-by-cleveland-police-officer.html

So I'm guessing it was single parent family, no father figure as is the case with so many African-American children. Left on his own to go where he likes, do what he wanted From what I've read, schools in Cleveland don't give a damn and community leaders are non existent or have their own agenda.

Very sad, but I would imagine lots of young African-Americans get killed usually by other African-Americans.

'The cops know what they're doing, he doesn't': Angry father speaks out after his 12-year-old son was shot dead by cops after he was spotted with BB gun in play park

The devastated father of a 12-year-old boy who was shot dead by Cleveland police when he allegedly pulled out a BB gun from his waistband has condemned the officers for their actions.

Gregory Henderson, whose son, Tamir Rice, passed away in hospital on Sunday, said the youngster had his whole life ahead of him when he was gunned down outside Cudell Recreation Center.

Wiping away tears, he said: 'Who would've thought he would go so soon? He had his whole life ahead. To be 12 years old, he doesn't know what he's doing. Police, they know what they're doing.'

He added that he was still shocked at the death of his 'superhero', whom he described as a keen basketball player who was tall for his size, polite and 'very artistic'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2846824/The-cops-know-doing-doesn-t-Father-s-grief-12-year-old-son-shot-dead-Cleveland-police-waving-BB-gun-playground.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Well, what did you expect this kind of father to say, ...that he felt responsible for his son's death, because he allowed him to behave this way?

Wiping away tears, he said: 'Who would've thought he would go so soon?

Answer: Apparently not, you idiot! Not one thought about your son going away so soon. Not even a clue when you knew he liked brandishing realistic semi-automatic BB guns in the faces of younger kids in a public play area. No sir. Who would've thought?

I am really sickened by these responses. I mean, how much more can the intelligent public take. Are these people for real? They manage to not get the coverage of what is really going on in these black communities, and that suits them well, but what now...? ...Do they next really expect the general public to ignore the behavior of their little babies when they are pumped up on life, and out in society and trampling it under foot of entitlement?

Half these kids are punks, and a lot more have a real bad attitude towards white people and any other race, and it saddens me that the media blocks full coverage of their pranks and violence, and then everyone acts surprised when any number of them gets on the receiving end of poor choices.

In censoring media coverage of the truth, and in not addressing the truth, and moreover calling the truth racism, these people and the media are committing suicide on their credibility. No one wants it to be this way, but intelligent people can only have so much BS crammed down their throats before they give up trying anymore.

Publishing the truth can bring about healing and make amends. Not publishing the truth makes the dam weaken by the day in holding it back. A lot of innocents will die unnecessarily because of this.

A lot of innocents will die unnecessarily because of this.

A lot too many innocents have already died and one is too many.

Intelligent people know this so do try to keep up thx.

[copa8]

How would Thai police have handled such an eventuality in a public park?

Not sure, but they will have thousands of US cases to study from.

[buggerlugs]

there is no minimum age limit to firing a lethal weapon at someone as long as youre able to pull the trigger. He was told to put his hands up but went to his waistband to draw the weapon. He must have known it was a fake so id say he was looking for a darwin award ...12yrs old is old enough to know what he was doing.

A 12 year old is not old enough to be aware of the consequences of his actions.

This is arguable as all 12 year old children are different but whatever the facts, this is a tragedy. Devastated families both from the young boys side and from the officers side. At least one officer was old enough to possibly have children of his own and he must now live with this for the rest of his life..... Not easy for anyone

[cookee68]

That's the trouble with America lately, kids have been killing kids either in school or play grounds, Guns are given out like xmas presents. what can you say

[BritManToo]

The cops did the right thing. They gave instructions to the boy and he refused to obey.

What if the gun was real and another child was killed?

Children generally have toy guns..

The assumption of any police in this situation should be, it's a toy.

Note to KB,

Children often don't do as their told, that isn't a valid reason to kill them.

The cops should assume what now? Where? Britain maybe?

With the high percentage of fatalities by gunfire occurring in their schools and college campuses, I think the average US cop assumes otherwise.

Sorry,

They're told of course, typo not ignorance.

[car720]

The result of a sick society that will not or cannot discourage or prohibit the use off and the carrying of firearms, thus society is on the whole living on a razor edge of fear.

Police offices who were or are perhaps also living on the razor edge of fear,indeed American society it seems has spawned an evil violence motivated society.

To have to make a decision as to whether to shoot or talk with a 12 year old boy should not be a difficult decision to make.

You talk, you do not shoot, you call for backup trained to deal with such a situation.

So yet again we are likely to see yet more outbreaks of wanton needless violence, riots the destruction of both private and public property and general civil disorder. Mad Max is becoming a reality as opposed to fiction I fear in the U .S .

And just which Utopia do you live in which never has a needless death, any violence against children, and where people are perfect and immortal?

Australia.